Any one else played/remembers this game? I think it is the game i GMed for the most in my GM career.
remember it? I still play it.
We downloaded the card images, had office max print it on some nice card stock and do a great cutting job, put them in some card protectors and viola a new fate deck was born.
You can pick up all kinds of SAGA edition books off ebay and used book store websites.
The thing I love most about SAGA edition rather than the D20 version of marvel superheroes is that if you had a magic of 10 or better you got somewhere in the neighborhood of 68% of the powers and could imitate more of them because you got ALL intellect and will based powers.
Naturally fans of the system like me have continued to write adventures and stuff for the game, one guy even came up with SAGA 2.0 which is fairly playable but tones down the magic too much for my tastes.
good gameing.
This was my first actual RPG, in a near tie with d6 Star Wars. Still one of my favorites. Incredibly well balanced with friendly language and a wide variety of powers. Still love it. to Steven for keeping the game going, even though I'm not nuts about the SAGA version.
Four Color RPG was a clone…wasn't it?
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I played it (both boxes) for a summer, found it so-so, and went back to Champions and Villains and Vigilantes.
Champions had far superior mechanics, and V&V was just cool because of Jeff Dee.
Marvel was kind of fun, though, just didn't grab me like the others. I guess, not being a big comic book fan, in addition to the mechanics, I just preferred the generic setting games better. Same issue with DC Heroes by Mayfair (which also had superior mechanics, imo - it was hilarious watching Jeff Grubb have to give it grudging props when he reviewed it for Dragon Magazine back in the day).
I played it (both boxes) for a summer, found it so-so, and went back to Champions and Villains and Vigilantes.
Champions had far superior mechanics, and V&V was just cool because of Jeff Dee.
Marvel was kind of fun, though, just didn't grab me like the others. I guess, not being a big comic book fan, in addition to the mechanics, I just preferred the generic setting games better. Same issue with DC Heroes by Mayfair (which also had superior mechanics, imo - it was hilarious watching Jeff Grubb have to give it grudging props when he reviewed it for Dragon Magazine back in the day).
This pretty much all applies to me, too (although I liked comics and I don't remember the Jeff Grubb article mentioned). I never had a copy, but a couple of my friends did.
It's possible that the game was changed since I played it, but I remember thinking that the fixed damage values for powers made for pretty dull combats.
I truly enjoined playing and running this game. I knew enough that I could make up stats if I needed to for various characters, read enough comic books to know what was going on, and it was loose enough regarding rules I felt comfortable coming up with a ruling on the fly. Heck, the best adventure I probably ever ran was one I made up on the fly for a Marvel session. It was a hoot, and I miss it sometimes. Nothing says love like hitting the party's heavy hitter with an Abomination robot that knocks the guy ten stories into the air, waits patiently for him to come down, then punts him down the street :)
I still have a lot of original material of this game, and i would sooooooooooooo like to play it again.
I played it (both boxes) for a summer, found it so-so, and went back to Champions and Villains and Vigilantes.
Champions had far superior mechanics, and V&V was just cool because of Jeff Dee.
Marvel was kind of fun, though, just didn't grab me like the others. I guess, not being a big comic book fan, in addition to the mechanics, I just preferred the generic setting games better. Same issue with DC Heroes by Mayfair (which also had superior mechanics, imo - it was hilarious watching Jeff Grubb have to give it grudging props when he reviewed it for Dragon Magazine back in the day).
This pretty much all applies to me, too (although I liked comics and I don't remember the Jeff Grubb article mentioned). I never had a copy, but a couple of my friends did.
It's possible that the game was changed since I played it, but I remember thinking that the fixed damage values for powers made for pretty dull combats.
Good point regarding the fixed damage values- I remember we houseruled that somehow, but I can't quite remember how...Probably something to do with Column Shifts.
Yeah, I think column shifts and/or Karma were supposed to be the way to handle it, but I just didn't care for it that much.
I used to love the game and even jury rigged a skill system into it using the old Dark conspiricy career system.
Did any of the rest of you end up with insanely powerful characters due to the ultimate powers book?
I think i can reconstruct one of my faves
F In (36)
A Am (46)
S In (36)
E In (36)
R Ex (16)
I Am (46)
P Rm (26)
Powers
Darkforce Generation & Manipulation Mo(63)
*Tendrils (actually the prehensile hair power) Mo (63) Str an ability
*Simple object creation of Mo (63) Strength
*Body Transformation Am (46)(acts as body armor)
*Flight In (36)
*Teleport Rm (26)
Invunerability - Power manipulation Cls 1000
There was probably more to him but that was the gist of it and he floored magneto in 1 round ;)
This is my fave ever, guess who he is?
F IN 40
A RM 30
S GD 10
E IN 40
R TY 6
I MN 75
P IN 40
Talents (Espionage,Military,Martial art B,C,D, Resist domination)
Power (Berserker rage-Regeneration 30-Recovery-Resistance 100-Tracking 75-Invisibility to machines 100-Adamantium skeleton-Adamantium retractable claws)
"I'm the best at what i do, but what i do isn't very nice"
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Reversengineer (aka Robert Hunt)
High Technology
F PR
A Ty
S Ty
E Pr
R Ex
I Gd
P Gd
Resources Ex(Work at Stark Industries)
Talents - Engineering, Electronics, Repair, Programming
Powers/Equipment -
Gammarifle (made from a Dreadnought Robot's Gammaray Projector)
Antigrav Harness (made from one of Wizard's flight disks)
Associations -
Herogroup - TEAMZERO (founding member)
Employer - STARK INDUSTRIES
Did any of the rest of you end up with insanely powerful characters due to the ultimate powers book?
I think I ended up with more weird characters than powerful ones. For instance, I remember one character with Feeble/Poor/Typical stats for everything except for Unearthly Endurance, no real offensive or defensive powers, and the Archery skill. Um...okay?
We used to decide by sheer balance/group needs how powerful a PC should have been. I rarely created characters by rolling dice. Our PCs were all in the EX-AM range, and usually they were generated simply by talking about the PC we wanted.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I used to love the game and even jury rigged a skill system into it using the old Dark conspiricy career system.
Did any of the rest of you end up with insanely powerful characters due to the ultimate powers book?
I had a friend who ended up the opposite end.
Deity
F Ty
A Gd
S Gd
E Ex
R Rm
I Ty
P Ty
Bonus travel power, Waterwalking
Powers 1
Linguistics. We let him have it at class 3000.
Hero Name? Ordinary God.
I loved playing this system, one player ended up with a character who's only power was fire generation Feeble, but he had a Remarkable Intuition, so he was a investigator. he died when one of the other characters played a joke on him... underestimating his durability.
Last I messed with this system I re-wrote the thing as a point system to put a stop to things like that and the players that always got god on the roll.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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The fixed damage was one of the central issues with the game. The ever-popular Captain America vs. Iron Man fight was drastically dull, because there was absolutely no way for Cap (Excellent Strength) to inflict any damage on ol' Shellhead (Amazing-rank Body Armor vs. Physical Attacks).
The solution we used in the playtests I was running was to allow characters to spend Karma to increase damage. Cap would need to spend 30 Karma to move his damage of 20 up to 50, to match Iron Man's armor value. Because this represented a massive, all-out attack, he'd need to spend that Karma before rolling the attack.
Jeff Grubb designed Marvel Superheroes (particularly the first edition, in the yellow box) as a simple beer-and-pretzels game. It wasn't supposed to challenge Champions or even Villains and Vigilantes for their design space.
(Incidentally, if you haven't heard, Jeff Dee and Jack Herman have re-established their ownership of V&V, removing Scott Bizar and Fantasy Games Unlimited from the equation, and are re-starting the game. Version 2.1 is virtually identical to V&V 2nd Edition.)
YOu know, oddly enough we were talking about this game today. Yeah, love it... though I still collect (an occasionally play) Hero/Champions.
I have the game; I knew others that did but nobody wanted to play it; said the sytem bit; big complaint was that things you see happen in comics could never happen in the game; so a guy with a incredible attack just is not going to even faze a guy with monstrous or unearthly ability.
so; we all used it as source material for our Champions games. I love the Superhero genre and have played most of them; though Villians and Vigilantes is least known; only played it like three times.
I tried to run a Champions pbp messageboard here; but hehe none of the players all had the same editions of the rules so it failed; am still be sad about that.
now There is a legion of superheroes game pbp and the GM has pretty much writtin the rules for that DC based game system from scratch; and we have been play testing them. Check out the thread and the rules if your a supers player or gm.
I really liked the build system for supers in the Palladium system as well; they had a couple books on it; was nice though Champions is my favorite. I really despise how the online mmorph totally wussed out and got bent to change their game away from Champions to "the game at has champions name but is just a fake" with the same old cookie cutter builds; sigh.
Anyone know about Marvels upcomming MMorph: is it going to be like the rpg in game ability and damage? kind of doubt it.
I still think that only in a sit down around the table RPG is the only time you get to play a super that actually runs like a super and gives you the heroic stimulation and emersion that all computerized versions lack. hehe lol Champions; you see a lady get her purse snached; 50 heroes pop out of the wood work to get that mugger; some complain; thats my bad guy; hehe; then when you "level up" say 20 levels later; you fly by countless muggings and such on your way to X; not very heroic, but if you stop in "roleplay" mode nad take them out; some little hero will occassionally complain; hey; why you fighting blow your level; hehe; no worries; like all bad guys; the game supplies more.
not something you see in a table game, but still; as much as I complain it is not Champions; the online game is a bit fun.
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I enjoyed Marvel for quick character creation and ease of use. My group played it alot. For balanced, and truely customized characters, I prefered Champions. However my group did not like it. They felt the math was way too hard. For somereason, they love DC Heroes. A game system, I never liked. All the math of Champions and all the graphs of Marvel with half the ease of either, IMO.
We have tried Mutants and Mastermeinds for the d20 crossover and were not really happy. I encouraged Paladium Hero, for the neat power selections, but the system breaks down easily ( a problem with paladium in general) We played a game back in the early nineties that had a comic book rulebook, I remember the stats were percentile based and I had a 100 agility and a 98 dexterity while another player had a 100 dexterity and a 98 agility. But can't remember its name. I am certain we tried other systems, but for the life of me I cannot remember them.
On my own, I have read Brave New World and wanted to give it a try. But it was vetoed by the group. Back in high school, my best friend went to europe over summer and came back with Villans and Vigilantes, I had also bought it. We played it ALOT.
@HoustenDerek Jeff Dee is the BOMB!!! I have always loved his artwork, and I still remember a TopSecret illo of the guy in the turtleneck, flaired pants, and a silenced pistol. I purchased a game called Enforcers because he did the artwork. Probably the worst super game I can ever remember. A calculator was REQUIRED and some stats went to the eight decimal place, no rounding earlier.
Greg
now There is a legion of superheroes game pbp and the GM has pretty much writtin the rules for that DC based game system from scratch; and we have been play testing them. Check out the thread and the rules if your a supers player or gm.
For those that would be interested in that game, here is the link
Greg
If you are a fan of Marvel Superheroes then ICONs is mix of Marvel and Fate systems.
I've been wanting to do ICONs for a while but my local game group tends to stick mostly to fantasy games (our main GM's wife is stuck on fantasy stories and won't do Star Wars, Sci-fi, or pretty much anything else). It is better to game and make a few compromises then to not game at all.
There is a welcomed invitation to all who would be interested in playing in the Legion of Super-Heroes PBP game. The rules were writen by me and totally based off of the comic book and how super-heroes are portrayed in them. Because of that I think you'll find there are less "restrictions" that you find people discussing within this Marvel Super-Heroes thread.
I have been talking to Eileen about her rules and DC comic; comic in general; gaming; superhero games and the like and been in on her game since the beginning and I all I can say is that She is awesome and wonderful and a great GM and gamewriter and dedicated, not going anywhere and totally awesome; so, there you have it; my unreserved shout out for her game.
And, in case you havent noticed; in my hmm, around 10,000 posts, I havent talked anyone up like that so believe me; she and the game is the real deal; jump at it.
Dont know if this link was posted but here's a retro clone...
4c RPG
I rembered Marvel Super-Heroes fondly. I actualy got a chance to play recently...I was only there for a one shot...but it was fun...though I know why I like Champions much better.
@Greg Wasson: I am in the same boat as you with Brave New World...would love to play it...or run...but can never get the players for it.
I rembered Marvel Super-Heroes fondly. I actualy got a chance to play recently...I was only there for a one shot...but it was fun...though I know why I like Champions much better.
@Greg Wasson: I am in the same boat as you with Brave New World...would love to play it...or run...but can never get the players for it.
Yep, I offered to change setting to anything else, thinking perhaps it was the re-write of history they didn't like. But that wasn't it. Turns out my group doesn't like "packaged" powers. Strange when DnD is our prefered game. And truthfully, most of us generate characters that can be easily done by BNW's system. Ah well, c'est la vie.
One of my players is the absolute best at running supers campaigns, and seems to change anything he runs into some form of supers. Mage/StarWars/DnD Yet, he doesn't want to run a supers game. O.o
Greg
I rembered Marvel Super-Heroes fondly. I actualy got a chance to play recently...I was only there for a one shot...but it was fun...though I know why I like Champions much better.
@Greg Wasson: I am in the same boat as you with Brave New World...would love to play it...or run...but can never get the players for it.
Yep, I offered to change setting to anything else, thinking perhaps it was the re-write of history they didn't like. But that wasn't it. Turns out my group doesn't like "packaged" powers. Strange when DnD is our prefered game. And truthfully, most of us generate characters that can be easily done by BNW's system. Ah well, c'est la vie.
One of my players is the absolute best at running supers campaigns, and seems to change anything he runs into some form of supers. Mage/StarWars/DnD Yet, he doesn't want to run a supers game. O.o
Greg
The people I play with are more spoiled by Champions...and the power level of that regular campaign they play in. I have at time thought about converting the world to Champions( it is more the world I like than the rules per se)...but I really just play Champions and don't feel confident in my ability to run it.
Anyone maybe one of these days we will get lucky.
I enjoyed Marvel for quick character creation and ease of use. My group played it alot. For balanced, and truely customized characters, I prefered Champions. However my group did not like it. They felt the math was way too hard. For somereason, they love DC Heroes. A game system, I never liked. All the math of Champions and all the graphs of Marvel with half the ease of either, IMO.
We have tried Mutants and Mastermeinds for the d20 crossover and were not really happy. I encouraged Paladium Hero, for the neat power selections, but the system breaks down easily ( a problem with paladium in general) We played a game back in the early nineties that had a comic book rulebook, I remember the stats were percentile based and I had a 100 agility and a 98 dexterity while another player had a 100 dexterity and a 98 agility. But can't remember its name. I am certain we tried other systems, but for the life of me I cannot remember them.
On my own, I have read Brave New World and wanted to give it a try. But it was vetoed by the group. Back in high school, my best friend went to europe over summer and came back with Villans and Vigilantes, I had also bought it. We played it ALOT.
@HoustenDerek Jeff Dee is the BOMB!!! I have always loved his artwork, and I still remember a TopSecret illo of the guy in the turtleneck, flaired pants, and a silenced pistol. I purchased a game called Enforcers because he did the artwork. Probably the worst super game I can ever remember. A calculator was REQUIRED and some stats went to the eight decimal place, no rounding earlier.
Greg
Palladium breaks down how? In HU the engine works just fine IMO (could just be a play style thing tho...)
I loved Faserip back in the day. Now it is a nice trip down memory lane for me. I Tried M&M the powers seemed off to me (again it is a taste thing) and BNW I hated from day one (I despise games where the meta-plot is interwoven into the rules), V&V was cool for its day, Champions was pretty neat as well (I lost interest in both of these when the min/maxing got to the point of the ridiculous).
Damian Magecraft: Just seeing that you play Palladium games...and were over there at the Palladium forums and notice somebody using the same screen name...was just wondering if you are the same person.
I'm not certain even how to reply to that, Damian. I love Palladium's books. I remember being enchanted with Palladium Fantasy when it first came out. The world was great. The source books were full of great info.
I think I have owned every incarnation of Unlimited and Fantasy. I collected Comico's Challenger series and bought the HU sourcebook of the same. I have owned many source books for Fantasy, but stopped collecting after the giant kingdom one ( exwife tore it and wastes one up in a very heated "discussion" ).
Ninjas and Superspies got me interested in martial arts and Autumn Lightning from its reading list became one of my favorite books.
I didn't even like the original B&W TMNT comic that much, and don't get me started on the later kiddie versions. However, the game and the After the Bomb series I loved.
I loved RIFTS, but only really the main book (source books books for it didn't thrill me, newer RCC's and OCC's just got ridiculous in power curves).
Nightspawn, I have used as a source for a nondice game I have ran o'er the years.
Only one I have owned and never was able to run/play was Beyond the Supernatural.
Heck, one of my favorites ( still have it ) is the Mechanoids game. I have used this game as a sourcebook for a Traveller game.
But as for the mechanics of the systems, wow ummm.... the HTH rules, the physical skill building... SDC and AR...oh and the later addition of MDC. firearm rules... parries and roll w/punches..exploding attributes.. Speed attribute..the low numbers needed to hit..
For Palladium and me, it has always been a series of loving the game, hating the system. For me, the system is cumbersome and encourages powerplaying ( moreso thany any version of DnD ). It's wonky.
I am certain many others feel entirely different, however, I cannot even IMAGINE I'm the first one you've seen that has had issues with the ruleset.
Greg
EDIT/PS: I was very disappointed the Pathfinder summoner class wasn't more like the Summoner from Fantasy. The current version reminds me alot of the one I played in Lineage 2 mmo.
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Played in high school and loved it, especially considering that my best friend and I both loved the comic books. Half of the time we just played with heros from the comics, but we also generated some heros of our own. I distinctly remember having a team named "x-force" at least 5 years before it appeared in the comics. There will always be something near and dear to my heart about rolling those percentage dice and blowing a bad guy a block down the street and through a couple of buildings.
Only played once to Palladium Fantasy, but was a nice system.I already loved palladium's games from Robotech.
As for supers,i only played Marvel Superheroes.
Still have a lot of material both for Marvel and Robotech
Damian Magecraft: Just seeing that you play Palladium games...and were over there at the Palladium forums and notice somebody using the same screen name...was just wondering if you are the same person.
Same guy John. (I use the same name on every BBS I visit.)
I play lots of systems but I do have my favs.2e, Pally, WW, Fate, Faserip, and Pathfinder is slowly growing on me.
*snip*
But as for the mechanics of the systems, wow ummm.... the HTH rules, the physical skill building... SDC and AR...oh and the later addition of MDC. firearm rules... parries and roll w/punches..exploding attributes.. Speed attribute..the low numbers needed to hit..
Yeah those can be daunting and seem unusual. The static to hit threw me when I first got into it (until I realized the ac/ar thing was made a separate mechanic.) Armor has hit points, Movement is not a static number. its an easy system to grasp if someone takes the time to teach it. But that is its biggest draw back... someone has to teach it or spend an inordinate amount of time studying the rules.
Also game balance is placed squarely in the hands of the GM instead of being forced by the rules (which can turn some players off.)
For Palladium and me, it has always been a series of loving the game, hating the system. For me, the system is cumbersome and encourages powerplaying ( moreso thany any version of DnD ). It's wonky.
I am certain many others feel entirely different, however, I cannot even IMAGINE I'm the first one you've seen that has had issues with the ruleset.
Not the first, nor I imagine will you be the last. But by asking where the disconnect is I can better grasp what needs attention in the system.
Greg
EDIT/PS: I was very disappointed the Pathfinder summoner class wasn't more like the Summoner from Fantasy. The...
yeah would have liked something similar (although to some extent it does kind of read like a weird summoner/shifter cross-breed.)
Damian Magecraft: Just seeing that you play Palladium games...and were over there at the Palladium forums and notice somebody using the same screen name...was just wondering if you are the same person.Same guy John. (I use the same name on every BBS I visit.)
I play lots of systems but I do have my favs.
2e, Pally, WW, Fate, Faserip, and Pathfinder is slowly growing on me.
Ah...it is now sometimes to see the same people from other message boards. It give a appearence of a smaller community.
Bt you are right Palladium needs to be taught....and also it fails with by the book gamers...alot of it you just have to wing. I play only Rifts really, so I do know there are slight differences thoughout the various game so I can't really comment on them. But I do know Rifts needs alot of work by the group to function...but really I think it sometimes alot of fun because it is worth it.
Yeah I have played lots of system in the past currently I play 3.5/Pathfinder, Champions, L5R, Dark Hersey, Rifts.
I just never get System Elitism...that prevades all message boards.
I really enjoy RIFTS; sad that Lorm doesnt run his game anymore and we have this block between us, there are other characters from other books I want to play and advance my favorite character; a temporal mage; Balfic doesnt run this D&D game anymore; I havent run my game at home with people around it in years; just here on the boards; so havent had much opp to play like I would like. Just been pbp and mmo's; is nice that Champions Online is now free to play; but started playing it couple weeks ago and already getting bored with it. Like city of villians; would like to play it a bit more. Wasnt DC and Marvel supposed to come out with MMO's.
Palladium had some nice heroes stuff too. I have just found that most gamers just can't play in the "hero" mold; I dont know if they just dont read enough comics or are stuck in the D&D mold of trying to kill everything in sight and get some treasure; but is always nice to meet some players who can really handle hero games.
pbp is like a one bite of a good meal; I want a buffet ;hehe
Champions Online was originally going to be Marvel MMO, but that fell through for reasons I do not know, and don't care enough about to look into. :P
I'm playing Champions Online (since open beta) and still have lots of fun with it.
DC's MMO just recently came out, DC Universe Online. It has some things to recommend it, but I still prefer Champions Online.
I played a bit of the Marvel FASERIP system back in the day, and even have the rulebooks around here somewhere still.
I've also played a lot of V&V, and like the look of Mutants and Masterminds, but haven't been able to start a game of it around here yet.
I've played and liked Heroes Unlimited and Champions, too, though not really a lot of Champions.
PbP never really appealed to me, too slow, seemingly taking three months just to get through a door at times.
I like Mutants and Masterminds; I bought the book for a pbp game here; but the game collapsed I guess; sad. I have played Champions on and off since release; was P.O'd when they didnt accept my bid for lifetime membership and gave it to everyone else; serves them right that now i play for free the bums; but still I havent progressed in the game very far; only to mid 20's; I cant access my old characters since they are gold edition and when you play for free your silver edition; so have a new charater that is about 16; so am thinking about what to do for nemisis constuction; is pretty cool about the game that you can create your own nemisis.
I have played and run a lot of Champions around the table; have lots of created bad guys and a whole world; tried to run a pbp of champions a few years back but nobody had the same version of the game so it failed to launch; too bad too.
back in 1986 I rolled up a character and played twice, but dont remember the game.
I like Villains & Vigilanties because Jeff Dee was involved in development.