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I know this has been brought up several times, but it seems there's more disagreement then anything regarding the best way to build this kind of hero. Several likenesses have been referenced (Achilles from the movie Troy, Spartans like unto the movie 300, etc) but I haven't really seen anything that will fit my situation.
My DM is doing a combat intensive short campaign in which he has openly stated that the goal is for him to TPK the party. Well, more power to him but I'm aiming to make it tough on him. :P
I'd like to get advice on a shield and spear build that can hold their own on the battlefield. Now I've already decided to go Trident since it's favorable to the shortspear. I'm limited to Vanilla PF for rules and feats so no monkey grip conversion from 3.5 or APG variants. If I have to go sword and board then so be it, as long as I give my DM a run for his money haha.
I've examined several ways of doing this with either a Pally or Fighter, but am unsure which is the optimum. Any help is appreciated.
(Yes I know if he wants to TPK he will, he's the DM, but still I can pretend I stand half a chance :P )
Edit: Clarifying information - Starting level is 9, only core rulebook for character creation. Stat method is 2d6+8 for each which I rolled the stats below on an online roller. I just copied and pasted the values cause I'm lazy that way. Not sure about starting wealth for gear yet, but basics first anyway.
Stat rolls:
Roll set 1
Die rolls: 3, 3 + 8
Roll subtotal: 14
Roll total: 14
Roll set 2
Die rolls: 6, 2 + 8
Roll subtotal: 16
Roll total: 16
Roll set 3
Die rolls: 4, 3 + 8
Roll subtotal: 15
Roll total: 15
Roll set 4
Die rolls: 3, 1 + 8
Roll subtotal: 12
Roll total: 12
Roll set 5
Die rolls: 6, 6 + 8
Roll subtotal: 20
Roll total: 20
Roll set 6
Die rolls: 4, 2 + 8
Roll subtotal: 14
Roll total: 14
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I apologize if this doesn't strike you as viable, but perhaps take the Mounted Combat Tree and armor up your mount really well? I don't know how this would affect full attack actions, but I just have a mental image of a literal tank of a fighter, using a Powered up Ride-by attack, and turning it into a bull-rush or Drag attempt to bully opponents into position for his allies.
My DM is doing a combat intensive short campaign in which he has openly stated that the goal is for him to TPK the party.
What. The. Hell. ?
Get a new DM.
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High AC, survivable, melee brute fighter with 20, 16, 15, 14, 14, 12?
With those parameters, I'd lean towards:
Human: Put the 20 in Con, 16 in Str, 15 in Dex (+2 Racial, +1 4th lvl), rest to taste. Sword & Shield feats: Shield Focus, TWF, Imp Shield Bash, etc. Get highest enchant fullplate, shield, and other armor boosting gear, and you can skimp a bit on the weapons (+1 sword, mwk javelins, maybe, possibly bow & a handful of +1 arrows). You end up with Weapon training, armor training, and full-speed movement in fullplate.
Dwarf: Put 20 in Con (+2 racial, +1 4th lvl, +1 8th lvl), rest to taste. Trick here is to go "good AC, ridiculous HP, good saves" Get Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Dodge, Shield Focus, and anything else you may need to shrug off non-HP-based attacks, and let your ridiculous HP carry you through the fights themselves. Favored Class: HP, Toughness, and a "natural" 24 Con, combined with the best Belt of Constitution you can get your hands on, should see to that.
Gnome: Paladin. 20 goes to Str, 16 to Cha, 15 to Con, stat bumps all go to Con. Basically ignores HP damage (Lay on Hands is THAT good, i've found), can dish it out, and has excellent saves. I'd go Charging Lance (Mounted Combat, Ride-By-Attack, Spirited Charge) with the Divine Bond: Mount option.
All three will serve the role you're looking for, with strengths and weaknesses of each.
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Personally, I like the idea of taking a Fighter Polearm master and using a small sized reach weapon and a large shield. You take a -2 on the attack roll for using an improperly sized weapon and the damage die goes down 1, but you get the advantage of using a shield with a reach weapon. Polearm master lets you then short-haft it, so you can full attack someone with your polearm and shield.
22 str (+2 human)
16 con
17 dex 15+2 for lvl
14 int
14 wis
12 cha
Then take shield feats for 2 weapon fighting.
I am not saying its optimal, but I think it will do what you want and be fun.
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If you're trying to go optimal for a brutal campaign, don't use a spear. It sucks. It's a simple weapon for NPCs. Get a real polearm that has reach, better damage, and the potential for cool stuff like brace, reach, disarm, and trip. Ordinarily, I wouldn't tell someone outright not to use a weapon for mechanical reasons, but if your DM is so intent on a TPK and combat, you might want to consider it, even if it changes your character concept somewhat.
My DM is doing a combat intensive short campaign in which he has openly stated that the goal is for him to TPK the party.What. The. Hell. ?
Get a new DM.
Why? If the party is cool with it, it could be a very fun campaign. It emphasizes optimal play, so if it was for a group of powergamers, it could be a lot of fun.
Precisely..only problem is I'm not a powergamer, and don't want to get shafted, as it were.
Why? If the party is cool with it, it could be a very fun campaign. It emphasizes optimal play, so if it was for a group of powergamers, it could be a lot of fun.
I'd suggest a half-orc paladin
Str 20 (22)
Dex 16 (best use of a breastplate to keep the style of the character)
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 12
Cha 19 (21)(+2 race, +2 levels)
For feats i'd take
1st Power Attack
3rd Combat Reflexes
5th Extra Lay on Hands
7th Vital Strike
9th Lunge
With a breastplate and large shield you'll be ac 21 without any magic
Assuming standard starting gold of 46k
+2 Breastplate 4350gp
+2 Heavy Shield 4170gp
+1 Bane (most likely badguys) Trident (Intellegent 12 int, 12wis, 10 Cha LG able to cast shield of faith 3/day as 5th lvl caster) 10315gp
Belt of Giant Strength +2 4000gp
Amulet of natural armor +2 8000gp
Headband of Charisma +2 4000gp
Boots of Speed 12000gp
Ring of sustanance 2500gp
Total 45335gp leaving 665gp for potions and sundries
Ac 27 or 30 with shield active
+15/+10 1d8+6 base damage buffable with power attack, haste, vital strike, lunge, Divine bond, Divine Favor, Bull Strength, and smite
Self healing for 4d6 11/day as a swift action + half orc ferosity whould keep you in the game for some time i would hope.
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Why? If the party is cool with it, it could be a very fun campaign. It emphasizes optimal play, so if it was for a group of powergamers, it could be a lot of fun.My DM is doing a combat intensive short campaign in which he has openly stated that the goal is for him to TPK the party.What. The. Hell. ?
Get a new DM.
Seriously. You've never played a one-shot or short campaign where the goal was just to stay up as long as possible? They can actually be a lot of fun. 'Classic' zombie apocalypse, world dominating evil overlord and an attempted assassination, any number of Call of Cthulhu influenced scenarios.
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Dwarven Fighter - two-weapon style
Str: 20
Int: 14
Wis: 16
Dex: 17 (+2 levels)
Con: 16
Chr: 10
Armor: +2 Full Plate (6650)
+1 Holy Trident (18310)
+2 Shield with +1 Shield Spike (5200)
+3 Cloak of Resistance (9000)
+1 Amulet of Natural Armor (2000)
+2 Str +2 Con Belt (10000)
HP: 90 (avg) AC: 27 saves: Fort: +13 Will: +10 Ref: +10, +4 vs poisons/magic
Feats:
Two-Weapon, Improved Two Weapon, Weapon Focus (Shield), Weapon Specialization (Shield), Weapon Focus (Trident), Weapon Specialization (Trident), feat that gives you +2 extra from dwarven bonus, Two-weapon rend, double slice
Main: +16 (+18) / +16 / +11 / +11 d8+9(+2d6+2)* 2, d6+9 * 2, probably rend each turn for d8+7 (all of this is before a strength item and magic weapon, so expect +4 or so more)
Can close and double-attack.
AC should be in the 30 range (Breastplate +2 and Shield +2 and a +4 to all saves vs spells with +3 from stats will keep you well-off generally. V solid damage output (less than a two-hander, but that is exPected.
Dwarven Fighter - two-weapon style
Str: 20
Int: 14
Wis: 16
Dex: 17 (+2 levels)
Con: 16
Chr: 10
Armor: +2 Full Plate (6650)
+1 Holy Trident (18310)
+2 Shield with +1 Shield Spike (5200)
+3 Cloak of Resistance (9000)
+1 Amulet of Natural Armor (2000)
+2 Str +2 Con Belt (10000)
HP: 90 (avg) AC: 27 saves: Fort: +13 Will: +10 Ref: +10, +4 vs poisons/magic
Feats:
Two-Weapon, Improved Two Weapon, Weapon Focus (Shield), Weapon Specialization (Shield), Weapon Focus (Trident), Weapon Specialization (Trident), feat that gives you +2 extra from dwarven bonus, Two-weapon rend, double sliceMain: +16 (+18) / +16 / +11 / +11 d8+9(+2d6+2)* 2, d6+9 * 2, probably rend each turn for d8+7 (all of this is before a strength item and magic weapon, so expect +4 or so more)
Can close and double-attack.
AC should be in the 30 range (Breastplate +2 and Shield +2 and a +4 to all saves vs spells with +3 from stats will keep you well-off generally. V solid damage output (less than a two-hander, but that is exPected.
Nice build :)
One question though is that a heavy shield or light?
A heavy shield would add another -2 to the attacks for 2 medium weapons while a light shield would do d4 damage also without improved shield bash you lose the ac bonus to either of them.
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Yeah, Shield bash is figured there (you'll notice a missing feat); and you'll see AC is calced on a light shield (d4 instead of d6). Finally, saves should go down by 1 with the cloak (overspent)... sadly cannot edit, and built it quickly :).
It's got amazing defense and good damage output; about as high as you can get sword-and-boarding. The two-weapon fighter kit is flat amazing; usually it can't work quite as well because of stats, but that is a non-issue here.
Yeah, Shield bash is figured there (you'll notice a missing feat); and you'll see AC is calced on a light shield (d4 instead of d6). Finally, saves should go down by 1 with the cloak (overspent)... sadly cannot edit, and built it quickly :).
It's got amazing defense and good damage output; about as high as you can get sword-and-boarding. The two-weapon fighter kit is flat amazing; usually it can't work quite as well because of stats, but that is a non-issue here.
Cool :) Bashing on the shield would fix the damage if you can scrounge 2.7k and lose the spikes :)
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Base book really you lose 1 to hit/damage from the shield (the two-weapon style lets you get full with both weapons), you lose two weapon rend and the extra +2 for dwarvenness via feat. Your AC stays the same (since the two from the kit is replaced by armor training... this build couldn't use full dex) and you gain two feats (power attack and dodge maybe?). Rest stays same; though not getting two attacks when you lose up will be the most sad thing.
Can I ask why you are restricted to vanilla PF? is it because your DM doesn't like the material in the APG or because none of you actually own the book yet?
I think it's fine to stick with the core rulebook only, I'm just curious.
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Can I ask why you are restricted to vanilla PF? is it because your DM doesn't like the material in the APG or because none of you actually own the book yet?
I think it's fine to stick with the core rulebook only, I'm just curious.
No, our group has used APG alot. I'm unsure as to his reasons, to be honest. He's currently running two games at the moment, one of which is using anything we can pull that's Paizo material. I'm thinking APG just might not be fitting for this particular run, could be wrong. I'll have to ask. Didn't give it a second thought, really.
Shame you couldn't use APG material, the Phalanx Soldier Fighter archetype lets you wield a same-size polearm with one hand while wielding a shield, without any penalties, asides from only adding x1 Str Mod to damage.