Okay so here is the situation. In the campaign I am currently in I started as the anti-party member. The DM wanted someone to push the story along because our group tends to get distracted so I got to be one of the bad guys (well bad to the party, their all CN which in our group means do whatever you want, I am LN)
So it started out that one of the player characters got a secret mission and enlisted the other soon to be party members in order to help (not telling them the subtleties of the mission because he was in an understanding with the DM that his character would be killed for knowing if captured)
Due to players failing because I am so awesome, they were all captured and had the choice to either die or be placed under mind-compulsion to complete a mission by the baron (guy whose house they broke into for their mission), which would be led by the barons trusted guard (me) and the compulsion requires them to further the goal of the mission each day and to follow my orders (here is where things get troublesome)
Staying in character (the mission was important to my character) and doing my job of keeping everyone from getting distracted, the other players OOC mentioned that their characters did not have a problem with mine (no quarrels in character) but that they OOC hope he dies soon and hate having him around.I don't want my character to just follow the democratic vote of the party (usually the only way to keep people happy)
so after this long introduction I guess my question is how can I stay in character and not be considered the campaign douche?
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you maybe stuck the campaign douche.alot of time when a character is not liked its just not liked.i played in a game were an npc was hated but was the primary person in the middel of things.you may try just gitting on their good sides in game.being helpful and geting to them thtew their characters without compromising his lg standers.or you could just die.
Ive worked a couple to my side (I saved the manhood of one character from being chopped off, the player was pleased) but the main issue is with the character that this campaign was built around and I fear things will end up going horribly wrong. who knows maybe he'll end up the party douche xP I was just hoping for some insight so that no one gets the shaft
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Considering all the grief groups have had over the years with antagonistic party members, I have to wonder why the GM felt the need to actively add one.
It's just not healthy for party cohesion in the long run, unless he's shooting for them unifying against you, in which case it defeats the purpose of having you guide them where he wants the plot to go.
they were all captured and had the choice to either die or be placed under mind-compulsion to complete a mission by the baron (guy whose house they broke into for their mission), which would be led by the barons trusted guard (me) and the compulsion requires them to further the goal of the mission each day and to follow my orders (here is where things get troublesome)
I think the bolded part should be removed. If the GM wants to use an outside force to make the characters do a mission, that's fine. But they should be free to do so in whatever way they believe is best, and not forced to obey another PC.
Greetings, fellow travellers.
I just wonder how attached you are to your present character. Seems to me the easiest solution would be to turn your current char over to the GM and pick a new one.
He could still use the PC-now-turned-NPC to "push the story along" and have you enter as a new guy having less trouble in staying on good terms with the other party members.
Otherwise, talk to your GM to have him create more situations where you can continue winning the rest of the party over (see your example above).
Ruyan.
Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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they were all captured and had the choice to either die or be placed under mind-compulsion to complete a mission by the baron (guy whose house they broke into for their mission), which would be led by the barons trusted guard (me) and the compulsion requires them to further the goal of the mission each day and to follow my orders (here is where things get troublesome)I think the bolded part should be removed. If the GM wants to use an outside force to make the characters do a mission, that's fine. But they should be free to do so in whatever way they believe is best, and not forced to obey another PC.
Agreed. GMs should use NPCs for this purpose, not PCs. The GM should never actively pit PCs against each other. It hinders the party cohesion typically required for all players to enjoy the game.
Personally, I know I would not be happy if the PC i spent time creating for campaign was forced to obey another PC without my agreement. Party leadership should be determined by the players, not the GM.
I'm new to this whole thing, but I agree that PCs should never be used to move on the plot in the way you are describing. Being under the GM's thumb doesn't make your character much more than an NPC, though I find the concept of you having your own free will pretty interesting.
A little more input:
In the current situation they're in, the PCs are going to HAVE to break out of the Baron's control sooner or later. Given that he has already bent them to his will before, not doing so runs the risk of them being his slaves forever, which certainly wouldn't be a charming concept to me in-character and out-of-character. In which case, taking you out of the picture would be an obvious objective for them. However, this route would likely lead to your death.
If you really like your character and don't want him to die, perhaps you can suggest to your GM that he has a bigger part in the grand scheme of things. Perhaps you're merely a double agent, only giving the appearance of being a loyal bodyguard, or maybe your loyalty to him is shattered when you find out that the baron did so-and-so to your wife/children/etc/etc, and want to help the PCs take him down. Some kind of element to give your character enough motivation to change sides, or to make you important enough to a future plotline to keep around.
It all depends on your GM though, of course.
Seems to me the easiest solution would be to turn your current char over to the GM and pick a new one.
Took the words right out of my mouth. +1
So basically the other PC's have been forced through DM Railroad, to follow your orders through magical compulsion.
The problem isn't with you, its with that. He let them all play CN and then has taken that way from them by making them do what you want. Heck, I'd want your character dead too. I'd even be trying to think of ways to kill you myself to "further the mission".
No. PC. Ever. Likes. having control taken away from their PC's. The DM just needs to grow a pair and man up. He is using you to do his dirty work. He needs to sit down and tell the PC's that they can Not play characters who refuse to follow any mention of a path or adventure. Part of playing is the contract that while the DM won't make the railroad too terribly obvious- but also that the PC's are willing to buy a ticket and ride the not-too-obvious train. If they won't ride the train you have no campaign and things fall apart.
Even in Kingmaker, PC's have to agree to go and explore the area described in the books- otherwise you aren't playing Kingmaker anymore.
If you all want a sandbox then run a sandbox- but even then PC's are extremely hard to "get moving" when their only motivation is selfishness.
Keep the character, kill him off- it doesn't matter. As long as the DM is using you as his mind-control kingpin the other PC's are going to continue to hate you OOC and wish for your death.
And they are right to. If your PC was mind-slaved to someone else, you would- OOC- wish for their death too.
-S
They see you controllin'. They hatin'.
Shadow-of-death, if I were in your position, I would probably handle it a bit differently. I would accept that the other PCs would want my PC dead, and that they may actually attempt to kill him, and then I would go whole-hog into his personality. If you know that he only has a limited time left to live, then let him really LIVE, you know?
You'll have more fun with it overall, you won't be heartbroken when he dies due to squandered potential, and you'll have a more memorable character.
You don't necessarily have to be antagonistic toward the CN characters, but don't go out of your way to avoid it, either. Just have him stick to his LN guns no matter what happens. The other players may have enough fun watching you enjoy your character that they don't want to kill him off when they have the chance! (Probably not.)
They see you controllin'. They hatin'.
always trying to catch rolling dirty.
Considering all the grief groups have had over the years with antagonistic party members, I have to wonder why the GM felt the need to actively add one.
It's just not healthy for party cohesion in the long run, unless he's shooting for them unifying against you, in which case it defeats the purpose of having you guide them where he wants the plot to go.
+1
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Any chance your DM has a surprise in store, like the Baron is using your character, and you turn against him?
Anyhoo, a bad idea as others have aptly voiced to pit player-vs-player in order to railroad the players to a particular adventure. I wonder if the other players are actually enjoying this style of gaming.
+1Considering all the grief groups have had over the years with antagonistic party members, I have to wonder why the GM felt the need to actively add one.
It's just not healthy for party cohesion in the long run, unless he's shooting for them unifying against you, in which case it defeats the purpose of having you guide them where he wants the plot to go.
++
Additional advice: Check your bed and toilet for booby traps, tell the GM to do the same.
If you absolutely must do stuff like that, you have to do it just right so the players consider it a great session/campaign with an awesome plot twist. If you must rely on players not metagaming to keep your character alive, the mission has failed.
First things first there is no chance of turning on the Baron as we are good friends and I have been training his son (plus I don't have any known family to speak of)
I already know why the DM isn't using an NPC and that's because if it isnt a strong NPC he will be sacrificed at a moments notice if he disagrees with/hinders the party and if he is too strong the players follow and let him do all the fighting because another will have to show up to take his place
The mind compulsion wasn't entirely planned... it happened because I was able to capture the other PC's after they failed their original mission so DM came up with something to keep their characters off the chopping block.
Oh and by the way for those wondering, my character is a templar and despises arcane magic, fun roleplaying opportunities come from me and the party bard. Might be easy to win him over with the character development...
Edit: two of the players came up with the campaign, go figure O.o
Seeing as the Baron let them live to begin with, perhaps he cannot be considered a "bad guy" per se, just another obstacle.
If the PCs are really getting tired of your presence, then perhaps the Baron can simply release them from his service once the task he assigned them to is over and done with.
This might potentially end your character's importance to the overall plot, unless perhaps you find some reason to join the party as an equal rather than a pushy leader.
Competitive Individualistic, but it usually works out because saving each others life is major mojo points, but they will cut their loses and run...
And the terms of the spell is that they are released upon completing the quest, Finding my way into the party afterward is an obstacle i am still figuring out. That's almost the point of this thread, if my character can be well received to the party it will be easier to stay, but maybe I'll have to go back to my job of being the the "bad guy" to keep the story moving
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Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
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Competitive Individualistic, but it usually works out because saving each others life is major mojo points, but they will cut their loses and run...
And the terms of the spell is that they are released upon completing the quest, Finding my way into the party afterward is an obstacle i am still figuring out. That's almost the point of this thread, if my character can be well received to the party it will be easier to stay, but maybe I'll have to go back to my job of being the the "bad guy" to keep the story moving
If you really want them to accept you into the party after the current storyline, you may want to consider how you are treating them. Instead of ordering them around, try asking for their suggestions on how to overcome an obstacle. Let them take the lead in some aspect of the quest, and actually let them tell you what to do once in a while. Let them have some free time once in a while to do things they want to do (as long as it doesn't work against your "quest"), and offer to help them out with any issues they may have.
This way, even though you are "in charge", the other party members will (hopefully) start to see you as a peer rather than an overlord.
There's no guarantee this will work, but I believe it's a good start.
If the party doesn't warm to your attempts to make peace with them, you might want to push things in the other direction: Make them absolutely hate the character. As you reach the climax of the current quest, conspire with the DM. Drive them nuts for that final session, making your character a petty dictator.
Then give them the chance to hang the jerk character out to dry. Have the DM put him in a situation where they get the chance to get him killed (preferably without actively killing him themselves). Let them enjoy the vicarious thrill of seeing someone whose been a thorn in their side suffer his comeuppance.
Ideally, he shouldn't die at their hand, but their choices should be responsible for his death. An example approach would be a deathtrap he'd need help to escape, combined with some sort of dispel magic. Suddenly, some of the party members have their free will back, just as they're in an ideal place to nuke the jerk character.
By taking the character's inevitable doom in stride, you'll help establish him as more of an NPC than "your" PC. A satisfying revenge will settle their frustration, leaving them more accepting of a new PC.
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Competitive Individualistic, but it usually works out because saving each others life is major mojo points, but they will cut their loses and run...
And the terms of the spell is that they are released upon completing the quest, Finding my way into the party afterward is an obstacle i am still figuring out. That's almost the point of this thread, if my character can be well received to the party it will be easier to stay, but maybe I'll have to go back to my job of being the the "bad guy" to keep the story moving
They will probably end up killing your character then. You might just have to accept this. The will definitely want to break free of you and probably want to end your character to assure it never happens again. Unless you can prove yourself to be an invaluable asset they can "use", that is.
I do like your suggestion Larry, I think I can ease off being a hard ass while staying in character.
Oh and unless I'm already messed up from a battle there is little chance they could take me on, I was built to be a BBEG to the party. the levels of the the group depended on character background so we have a level 2, 4, 4, and one I don't know. I am level 6, but I have proven I can drop any of them in one hit and that's not on a full attack, plus they can only hit me on a natural twenty (no i don't have any special equipment) so it is more of a fear that they will have the chance to kill me and it will be TPK xP
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I do like your suggestion Larry, I think I can ease off being a hard ass while staying in character.
Oh and unless I'm already messed up from a battle there is little chance they could take me on, I was built to be a BBEG to the party. the levels of the the group depended on character background so we have a level 2, 4, 4, and one I don't know. I am level 6, but I have proven I can drop any of them in one hit and that's not on a full attack, plus they can only hit me on a natural twenty (no i don't have any special equipment) so it is more of a fear that they will have the chance to kill me and it will be TPK xP
You can pretty much do anything as the DM. Without fiat though I honestly think you're under estimating your PCs. There are plenty of ways to kill a character w/o direct conflict. Mute point though just trying to tell you what will most likely happen.
If you have any hope of salvaging the game your character would have to actively be seeking to quickly resolve the situation where the other characters are under geas to you. You would have to come off as the good guy trying to solve there situation otherwise you're characcter will justifiably be viewed as just as responsible as the baron.
The fact that your character is described as being buddy buddy with the baron isn't promising. The dm is putting everyone in the position of having an unhappy game. Maybe it won't turn out that way but it does seem that the dm is lavishing favoritism on your character. The fact that you're using terms like "I'm going to have to ease up being a hard ass", or there about, doesn't really engender much sympathy for your character.
Yeah it doesn't help that I was never intended to join the party, so them not liking me was fine until I did too good of a job stopping them. (honestly I left them in their cells unguarded with their stuff in lockers in the next room, what more could they want?)so no favoritism just rewards for doing better then everyone else
Now, understandably, you like your character but by the same token, the other players like their characters as well.
The geas is just bad juju all round. The baron has basically mind-raped all of them with a spell and then handed the reins of that spell to your PC, who's too honorbound/gutless to recognize it for an evil despicable act. Yes, they were probably given an option to refuse but "death or mindrape" is still choosing between two evils and the baron is the one responsible since he's the one who makes up the laws, enforces them, and can pardon them if it amuses him.
Yes, he's probably depicted as Lawful Neutral, but when Lawful Neutral acts just like Lawful Evil except for that brown-nosing devils part, it's basically Lawful Evil for secular people.
Now, for redeeming your character in the eyes of the party. Saving the guys manhood was good. Saving lots of people is better. But most of all, the baron has to go.
Easiest bet? He's probably done this crap before, and as such, there's going to be someone who's got a little list of folk who never will be missed and he's right at the top of it. Maybe a relative of someone who he lawfully executed for stealing bread or even something more major but mercy wasn't called for because the baron likes playing politics and he needed to "set an example." One dead example later and the castle scullery maid who was very fond of her dead cousin decides that, while she's not an assassin, making soup out of death's cap mushrooms and botulized meat would probably disagree with the baron anyway.
Yes, the baron might be brought back to life, but probably wouldn't want to, since his title has now passed to his cousin and if he came back he'd be considered to have abdicated.
So, once the baron is dead and the principled cousin is in his place, what's the PC with geas on the rest of the PCs going to do? Especially if the cousin just pardons everyone while breaking the geas, because he finds them creepy and immoral? Let's say the new baron is Neutral Good with Chaotic tendencies.
Then the new baron decides to hire the old party to complete their former mission--which really is important--but offers the party pay, including back wages for the time that they were geased, except for the old trusted lieutenant who probably swore fealty again, not thinking that he'd be ordered to apologize and if he wants to prove he's really sorry for the geas thing to do the mission with everyone else without pay.
So, you then have chaotic mercenaries and the lawful butt-boy doing penance.
Would it work? Maybe. But it would certainly make for happier players.
That would be up to the DM as of right now the baron is a good guy, attempted assassination of the local ruler is usually penalized with death but lucky for them he needed people that were assumed dead because he was being watched by the thing we are going to kill. Could work but I would need more then him placing a spell on some high end criminals to justify betraying him
Every high-end criminal is someone else's loved one, and if the scullery maid is some dead criminal's girlfriend, murdering the baron could also be her way of committing suicide to be with her dead boyfriend.
Just because he's a good guy doesn't mean he's never made bad or hard political decisions or that everyone in the kingdom will love and forgive his mistakes unconditionally.
Or he could just choke on a fishbone which got past all the Detect Poisons and whatnot a palace might have and he dies with no one to blame with the crown still passing to his cousin.
It does look like a GM 'curveball' might help this situation. Right now, you have them in a bind and your PC is too powerful for them to do much about it. Inserting some wild card element might change the situation so things can be more gracefully resolved.
Unless your guy somehow selflessly impresses them, there's no way to easily bury the hatchet. Unfortunately, a lot of the gestures that would ordinarily win a party's trust could also reinforce their feeling that this is "your character's show" and they're just along for the ride.
To "balance the scales" your PC needs to suffer in some major way. They need to see him brought "down a peg": Once they feel sympathy for his plight, they may be more sympathetic toward him.
Before the party's hatred for the character can be resolved, they need their freedom restored and they need to feel like he's suffered.
Do they clearly know that your guy is much more powerful than they are? If not, you might nerf him a bit, so he's a fair fight for the party. Heck, one encounter with a spectre might settle the issue.
We have to kill a red dragon before their freedom is restored so that could be awhile unless something happens, and I do nerf him in battle... I have power attack, missile shield, and two attacks on a full attack and have yet to use any of them
We have to kill a red dragon before their freedom is restored so that could be awhile unless something happens, and I do nerf him in battle... I have power attack, missile shield, and two attacks on a full attack and have yet to use any of them
Having the geas end once the dragon is dead is basically cause for other characters to say, "Well, that was unpleasant. Glad that's over. There's the dead dragon. Take whatever body part you want back to the jerk who put the geas on us, but if we never see him again in our lifetimes, that would be fine with us, and the same goes for you, lackey-boy."
The party would then be well within their rights to go off and tell tales of exactly what the baron and you his lackey did, and exactly what they thought of that, and if every mercenary in the land decided to blacklist him as a dishonorable power-rapist geasing cur? Yeah, that would be great.
In short, once the dragon is dead, the band breaks up, or more to the point, the more the party ignores the baron and his lackey no matter how much money he waves at them or how much he whines about the fate of the land.
After all, the dragon didn't geas them.
Sarokcat that would have been amazingly helpful but it doesn't matter much anymore. Due to out of game circumstances my character went to sleep against his own will (it was night, he cant stay up forever anyway) and one of the player characters killed him with a CDG. His reason in game was that if my character ever came up to his tribe he was afraid I would start killing people (sure I promised not to as long as they didn't bother me and I act lawful but hey who can you trust right?). None of this was supposed to happen anyway so the DM hand-waved it. What he didn't think about is now I go back to my old job of pushing the story along by antagonizing the players, only this time I won't be under lawful restriction. Neutral evil is far worse
Sarokcat that would have been amazingly helpful but it doesn't matter much anymore. Due to out of game circumstances my character went to sleep against his own will (it was night, he cant stay up forever anyway) and one of the player characters killed him with a CDG. His reason in game was that if my character ever came up to his tribe he was afraid I would start killing people (sure I promised not to as long as they didn't bother me and I act lawful but hey who can you trust right?). None of this was supposed to happen anyway so the DM hand-waved it. What he didn't think about is now I go back to my old job of pushing the story along by antagonizing the players, only this time I won't be under lawful restriction. Neutral evil is far worse
And exactly why are they going to pick up with your new character, or like or treat him any better than the old?
If the GM has asked you to be a gadfly, that's one thing, but if you've just decided to play this sort of character, there's nothing wrong with the other character IC pushing him off a cliff or just ditching him at the earliest convenience.
If the GM has asked you to be a gadfly, that's one thing, but if you've just decided to play this sort of character, there's nothing wrong with the other character IC pushing him off a cliff or just ditching him at the earliest convenience.
Oh no you misunderstand, I was never supposed to join the party in the first place and have no intention to now. I am just to be part of the orc's that work for the dragon.