I`ve seen sentiment this is underpowered for the cost.
I don´t think it`s SO bad, but why not give it more duration, but with decaying power, e.g. INT to Shield Bonus, -3 per round until gone? At the least, why not throw in the effect of Shield spell vs. Magic Missile or let it apply to incorporeal/force effects?
It would be reasonable to give the effects of a shield spell for the duration with shield effect equal to the INT bonus.
It's an immediate action, and can potentially give the magus a +15 shield bonus to AC. It's not weak by any means. It's a clutch ability that may well save your ass.
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Being a shield typed bonus is pretty bad, since it doesn't stack with Shield, making it useless if you have Shield (the baseline Magus defense spell) up, and have an Int less than 20... I can't see many 15pt builds plumping for this thing until high level, if at all.
If it was an untyped bonus, it'd be worthwhile for any level and points build. I mean, I like the Doctor Strange-esque visuals which an immediate, short duration 'magical shield' conjurers in the mind, by mechanically it's not a huge amount of use.
Being a shield typed bonus is pretty bad, since it doesn't stack with Shield, making it useless if you have Shield (the baseline Magus defense spell) up, and have an Int less than 20... I can't see many 15pt builds plumping for this thing until high level, if at all.
If it was an untyped bonus, it'd be worthwhile for any level and points build. I mean, I like the Doctor Strange-esque visuals which an immediate, short duration 'magical shield' conjurers in the mind, by mechanically it's not a huge amount of use.
Yeah shield bonus isn´t ideal, but it´s still usefull against a surprise attack.
On the other hand, an untyped bonus could skyrocket to AC into the unhitable area.
I`m convinced that a longer duration isn´t necessary...
I was just responding to other posters who didn´t think it compared well to Shield spell.
Besides the points already brought up, I think it`s reactivity is of great value:
You don´t need to dedicate Spell Slots and Standard Casting Actions to Shield UNTIL YOU ARE ATTACKED. Many encounters, the Magus may well not be targetted because other PCs present a better target. Or when you are Invisible or otherwise disguised, you are probably betting you will not be targetted, but IF you are for whatever reason, you can instantly buff your AC, while Shield would largely be a waste if your other defenses ARE generally effective.
I can see how having Immediate Action IMMUNITY vs. Magic Missiles (which otherwise ALWAYS hit) might be too much, but I think allowing the bonus to apply vs. Incorporeal/Force effects is very reasonable. Keeping it as a Shield Bonus is also a good idea IMHO... I fully expect an Errata allowing untyped bonuses applicable to Touch AC to apply to CMD, and adding INT bonus to CMD would be too much.
A couple of thoughts in the shield arcana's favor:
At lower level you probably want as many spell slots as you can get -- the shield arcana uses an immediate action -- something you probably won't use often and saves spell slots. You'll only use the shield arcana if you need it so having it doesn't "waste" resources unlike having the shield spell prepared (which means another spell isn't prepared). Shield might not be needed -- for example the opponent's keep missing you by just a bit and you don't want to get hit but don't want to spend the action or slot when you might want it later. With the arcana you can safely use spell combat and hit the target with another spell (possibly dropping it) safe in the knowledge that if it looks like something might succeed in hitting you that you can use your ace in the hole and save your own bacon.
As a reactionary measure the shield arcana saves resources (spells and actions) while giving you what you need only when you need it, at the cost of an action type you can afford to give.
At higher level the bonus outstrips shield and is still a nice reactionary ability for the times you believe you are going to get clobbered.
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I`ve seen sentiment this is underpowered for the cost.
I don´t think it`s SO bad, but why not give it more duration, but with decaying power, e.g. INT to Shield Bonus, -3 per round until gone? At the least, why not throw in the effect of Shield spell vs. Magic Missile or let it apply to incorporeal/force effects?
They should just get rid of this arcana altogether and roll this idea into the arcane pool. Instead of getting an offensive buff, they can get a defensive buff as well. Easy to understand, longer duration (still only for an encounter), and logical.
A third level magus will probably have 4~5 spells, and 6~7 arcane points.
With an average of 4 fights a day you can use two arcane points and one spell in each fight. One point gets you magical weapons for the fight and the other can be used for a shield bonus that doesn't eat a spell. You aren't looking for the level 1 spell to kill your target, but check this out:
The magus uses spell combat and casts chill touch, then using spell strike attacks. Hits and deals an additional 1d6 negative energy damage possible 1 strength damage. Next round he attacks again and gets another extra 1d6 negative energy damage and possible 1 strength damage (on top of his weapon damage +1 for the magic weapon booster effect). As this round draws to a close someone goes to switch and he thinks they are likely to hit -- shield arcana goes up and he gets +4~5 AC -- a probable hit just missed, and he still has his actions for next round without wasting a spell, or spell combat round.
He got 3d6+possible 3 strength damage out of the spell slot he would have been using to prevent one, maybe two attacks that combat.
Of course it is all relative to the party in question and I don't have a problem with a player saying "before he hits I pop up my shield ability" -- before I declare what the results of the roll are (after the dice has stopped though).
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A third level magus will probably have 4~5 spells, and 6~7 arcane points.
Seriously? I question that, 'cos...
This arcane pool has a number of points equal to 1/2 his magus level (minimum 1) + his Intelligence modifier.
... meaning, at third level, the Magus's level is contributing a grand total of one single Arcane Pool point. At third level a character hasn't had any Ability Score increases, and really shouldn't have the gold to be buying headbands of brain boosting, or whatever. Which means your Magus is starting, as a first level character, with an Int of 20 to 22 in order to have that 6 to 7 Arcane Pool points. That's off the chart for points buy, and even if he happens to be an elf it's costing him 17 points... let's hope he's not playing in a 15 point 'standard' game (and the gods forbid if he actually rolls his Ability Scores)! Considering that most Magus character are going to want to be able to not instantly die in melee combat, there's a chance he may want to invest a little in Dex, Con, and maybe even Str as well...
I'd say 4-5 Arcane Pool Points at levels 1 to 3 is more realistic, which is exactly enough for the guy to boost his weapon in the four to five encounters an 'average day's adventuring' (whatever that is) is meant to run to.
Being a shield typed bonus is pretty bad, since it doesn't stack with Shield, making it useless if you have Shield (the baseline Magus defense spell) up, and have an Int less than 20... I can't see many 15pt builds plumping for this thing until high level, if at all.
If it was an untyped bonus, it'd be worthwhile for any level and points build. I mean, I like the Doctor Strange-esque visuals which an immediate, short duration 'magical shield' conjurers in the mind, by mechanically it's not a huge amount of use.
Yeah shield bonus isn´t ideal, but it´s still usefull against a surprise attack.
On the other hand, an untyped bonus could skyrocket to AC into the unhitable area.
About surprise attacks, if you mean flatfooted AC, shield bonus apply to flatfooted AC, but you can't use the Shield Arcana while flatfooted (you can't take inmediate actions while flatfooted).
I'm for making it a free action, which can be taking while surprised, and wouldn't interfere with Arcane Pool weapon enhancement.I agree that an untyped bonus would be too good.
I was thinking more about an enemy switching targets or several of them targeting you, but good point.
stuffs
Yeah I was thinking level 4 for some reason. I agree with 4~5.
The reality of the situation is that playing a magus from 1-3 is gonna be a world of hurt overall, barring a really high point buy, and even then you'll be behind everyone else. It's really not until 4 when you get two more spells (both 2nd level!), another APP, ability score increase, and the Pool Spell ability, and your 1st level spells start to do anything resembling respectable damage, that the Magus is an asset to a party instead of something resembling dead weight.
So yeah, at low levels you may use the Shield Arcana to negate an attack once a day, at higher levels it's probably better. It's not the strongest arcana, but it's certainly not worthless. It just suffers at low levels, like everything about the class, really.
So yeah, at low levels you may use the Shield Arcana to negate an attack once a day...
Just wanted to point out that, since it lasts till the end of your next turn, it could protect you from a dozen attacks from multiple enemies, not just one.
Unless yer facing something with tons of iterative attacks, yer in a bad way as a magus if you are taking more than one or two attacks at level 1-3. And the end of yer next turn is soon since it's an immediate action on the other creature's turn. But technically you are correct. In that situation the shield spell is way better, since you are looking at many rounds of combat if there are that many creatures about u.
Actually I'm liking the magus at lower levels. The first arcana I would probably grab would be wand wielder -- at low levels it expands my resources that I can use while full attacking, and at high levels it gives me the option of using staves while full attacking. Chill Touch is a great spell for the magus due to the spell strike ability, 1d6 negative energy with a point of strength damage thrown on top of your normal attack and you are looking good. Defensively you are -- ok, light armor will serve you well for a while with a decent dex -- a buckler might be a good investment at lower level for when you aren't using spell combat -- shield is of course not a bad choice (either the spell or the arcana imo) too and once the spell is cast using a two handed weapon isn't a bad idea for a magus.
Actually I'm liking the magus at lower levels. The first arcana I would probably grab would be wand wielder -- at low levels it expands my resources that I can use while full attacking, and at high levels it gives me the option of using staves while full attacking. Chill Touch is a great spell for the magus due to the spell strike ability, 1d6 negative energy with a point of strength damage thrown on top of your normal attack and you are looking good. Defensively you are -- ok, light armor will serve you well for a while with a decent dex -- a buckler might be a good investment at lower level for when you aren't using spell combat -- shield is of course not a bad choice (either the spell or the arcana imo) too and once the spell is cast using a two handed weapon isn't a bad idea for a magus.
Agree with everything, esp. the wand wielder/staff advice. But wouldn't the buckler impose a non-proficiency penalty unless the Magus burned a feat on shields?
A Mithrail one would work at mid levels, even without proficiency, but it's unclear (to me) as to whether the attack penalty for using a buckler would apply to touch and ranged touch attacks made with the spell casting hand (assuming the buckler is on that arm, of course).
Unless your DM caters to your whims with treasure drops, or lets you buy wands with however many charges on them that you want (which is ridiculous), how many wands at 750 gp a pop are you gonna have at level 3 (which you don't even get an Arcana till level 3, again, I think they are real bad at 1-3)? Not only that wealth issue, but is that really an arcana that bodes well over most of your career? I haven't done out the math, but it seems hardly worth it. What are you using a level 1 CL1 wand to cast that is so great?
Chill Touch is good, but meh at low levels. How many times per day at 1-3 do you get to add 1d6 damage? Not many. At level three you are looking at three rounds of doing 1d6 extra damage, which isn't too bad, but if that's where your resources are going I still think it's not even mediocre.
Defensively you are ok with high dex, but you have terrible hp if you invested in Int and Dex...I guess your first feat could be Toughness, but then you're limiting other options. Scary for a frontline fighter...
I would actually play 1-3 (if allowed) with a Scorpion Whip (and weapon finesse), and try to get by with Chill Touch spells to add a little damage. But I still think it's bad.
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The reality of the situation is that playing a magus from 1-3 is gonna be a world of hurt overall, barring a really high point buy, and even then you'll be behind everyone else.
Kinda' starting to agree on that:
At first level the...
Magus gets light armour and martial weapons.
Bard gets light armour, shields, and some martial weapons.
Alchemist gets light armour and simple weapons.
Inquisitor gets light armour, medium armour, shields, and some martial weapons.
Summoner gets light armour and simple weapons.
So, both the Bard and Inquisitor will have a better AC... and the gap will increase as magic comes into play (+1 armour and a +1 shield together are half the cost of +2 armour...). Both the Bard and Inquisitor get some martial (and exotic) weapons - and you can only use one at a time (well... if you're a Magus, or using a shield, anyway) - so the Magus's big 'win' in the comparison falls a little flat. The Magus's skill with martial weapons makes him a better combatant than an Alchemist or Summoner... except the Alchemist gets Throw Anything for free, not to mention bombs - making him a ranged attacker by default, and the Summoner gets... well, a pet killing machine... making him a combatant by choice, at most.
This doesn't seem like the Magus is particularly 'blending magical ability and martial prowess' any more than these other classes, many of whom would see frontline combat as a very much secondary option.
True, the 'weapon imbuing' power of the Arcane Pool helps a little, and is most likely going to be available once per encounter (unlike a Bard's quickly burnt-through Bardic Performance... that is, before the Linger Performance appeared, anyway... or the Inquisitor's judgement).
Also at first level the...
Magus gets 2 skill points and two special powers.
Bard gets 6 skill points and two special powers.
Alchemist gets 4 skill points, two free Feats, and two special powers.
Inquisitor gets 6 skill points, and three special powers.
Summoner gets 2 skill points, and three special powers.
... Which seems to indicate that, unless his 'special powers' are vastly better than those he shares a general progression chart (and hit die) with, our Magus is getting screwed at level one. Not 'unplayable' screwed, but still screwed...
Personally,I'm starting to like the idea of the Magus getting BAB equal to his level when using Spell Combat (like the Monk and his McFlurry of Blows)... after all, he's meant to be good at combat, not as good as an Alchemist, isn't he?
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I don't think it needs a duration increase. It's meant to be a reactive ability, hence it being an immediate action which is an interrupt.
I will however agree that having it apply to incorporeal attacks would be not only fine, but logical and would even be good with it blocking magic missile.
I have to say I was glad that I took the ability.
Level 10 Magus, and between a good hit with vamp touch (26 temp HP) and using this ability to flat out avoid a few hits, I went through a "BBEG" fight off tanking a construct and only losing 24 HP total.
Unless your DM caters to your whims with treasure drops, or lets you buy wands with however many charges on them that you want (which is ridiculous), how many wands at 750 gp a pop are you gonna have at level 3 (which you don't even get an Arcana till level 3, again, I think they are real bad at 1-3)? Not only that wealth issue, but is that really an arcana that bodes well over most of your career? I haven't done out the math, but it seems hardly worth it. What are you using a level 1 CL1 wand to cast that is so great?
Chill Touch is good, but meh at low levels. How many times per day at 1-3 do you get to add 1d6 damage? Not many. At level three you are looking at three rounds of doing 1d6 extra damage, which isn't too bad, but if that's where your resources are going I still think it's not even mediocre.
Defensively you are ok with high dex, but you have terrible hp if you invested in Int and Dex...I guess your first feat could be Toughness, but then you're limiting other options. Scary for a frontline fighter...
I would actually play 1-3 (if allowed) with a Scorpion Whip (and weapon finesse), and try to get by with Chill Touch spells to add a little damage. But I still think it's bad.
Actually the Whip is in the Adventurers Armory so its allowed.