Let's make some spells


Round 2: Words of Power Discussion

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Since nobody else has started it, shall we use this thread to collate and discuss spells made out of words? I'm sure we won't get all the combinations, but at least we can take a look at a few and go over interesting things to do, their power and so forth.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Umbral Reaver wrote:
Since nobody else has started it, shall we use this thread to collate and discuss spells made out of words? I'm sure we won't get all the combinations, but at least we can take a look at a few and go over interesting things to do, their power and so forth.

Single Cold Snap Cramp:

Cliche frost spell, deals 1d3 frost damage as a ranged touch attack, slowing the enemy. Fort negates. Level 1.


Is this too much of a buff for a 4th level spell?

Target Words: Single (level 0, cost 0)
Effect Words: Perfect Self (level 4, cost 9), Force Shield (level 1, cost 5)
Level/Cost: 4/13
School: abjuration/transmutation
Range: close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: one creature
Duration: 1 round/level
Target creature gains a +4 enhancement bonus to strength, dexterity and constitution and a +4 armour bonus to AC.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Umbral Reaver wrote:

Is this too much of a buff for a 4th level spell?

Target Words: Single (level 0, cost 0)
Effect Words: Perfect Self (level 4, cost 9), Force Shield (level 1, cost 5)
Level/Cost: 4/13
School: abjuration/transmutation
Range: close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: one creature
Duration: 1 round/level
Target creature gains a +4 enhancement bonus to strength, dexterity and constitution and a +4 armour bonus to AC.

The duration is very short, so I would say it's reasonable.

Liberty's Edge

Shadar Aman wrote:
Umbral Reaver wrote:

Is this too much of a buff for a 4th level spell?

Target Words: Single (level 0, cost 0)
Effect Words: Perfect Self (level 4, cost 9), Force Shield (level 1, cost 5)
Level/Cost: 4/13
School: abjuration/transmutation
Range: close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: one creature
Duration: 1 round/level
Target creature gains a +4 enhancement bonus to strength, dexterity and constitution and a +4 armour bonus to AC.

The duration is very short, so I would say it's reasonable.

As a straight caster it would be lame, but as an Eldrich Knight it could be impressive.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 8

For fun, the weirdest legal level 1 set of words I have come up with so far:

Small Cone (2) Flame Jet (2) Sense Magic (1)

It burns, it roasts, it sizzles, and it tells you who to loot first!

For useful:

Single (0) Servitor II (4) Force Shield (5) Level 3 Spell.

Pick your favorite SMII monster. Give it a +4 AC bonus ala Mage Armor. As a STANDARD ACTION. Not really game breaking, but something with a decent AC can become a pretty effective roadblock. Plus you can drop your little buddy and then run.


From my other thread:

Crimson Lightning (requires 1 point of word burning)

Target Word: Mass
Effect Words: Fire Blast and Lightning Blast
Level/Cost: 5/17
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Reflex half
SR: Yes

The targets take 1d6 per level (max 10d6) fire damage and 1d6 per level (max 10d6) lightning damage.


Evil Space Mantis wrote:

For fun, the weirdest legal level 1 set of words I have come up with so far:

Small Cone (2) Flame Jet (2) Sense Magic (1)

It burns, it roasts, it sizzles, and it tells you who to loot first!

For useful:

Single (0) Servitor II (4) Force Shield (5) Level 3 Spell.

Pick your favorite SMII monster. Give it a +4 AC bonus ala Mage Armor. As a STANDARD ACTION. Not really game breaking, but something with a decent AC can become a pretty effective roadblock. Plus you can drop your little buddy and then run.

That is not legal. From the Playtest:

Quote:

Detection words are used to learn things that simple

observation cannot. They reveal secrets and uncover
hidden things. Detection words are special in that they
can be combined with other detection words in one spell.
Detection words cannot be combined with other effect
words in one spell.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 8

Guess who totally read the first line in Detection Words and thought to himself: "Flavor text? Thats for later! Wheres the crunch?" and then had it bite him on the forums.

This guy right here, thats who.


Sniper Shot (Level 2)
Target Word: Single (0)
Effect Words: Force Bolt (Force, 5), Distant (Meta, 2)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

Shoot a 5d4 bolt of force at least 150 feet away!

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 8

Except that Distant costs 4 and Meta's for some reason require you to already have 2 Effect words.

Here is my optimized version:

'Rixx wrote:

Sniper Shot (Level 2)

Target Word: Mass (2)
Effect Words: Force Bolt (Force, 5)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

Shoot a 5d4 bolt of force at at least 5 targets within 30 feet of each other, at least 150 feet away!

Basically, the Mass Target Word is your friend for blastin :D


Snap! I didn't realize that Mass had a medium range like that. That makes this spell much more awesome. I could imagine most people going for Mass whenever possible and eschewing "Distant" entirely, though...


Word of power summoning appears to be strictly better than regular summoning.

Shielded Servitor IV
Target Word: Single (0)
Effect Words: Servitor IV (Summoning level 4; cost 8), Force Shield (Armour level 1; cost 5)
Level/Cost: 4/13
School: abjuration/summoning
Casting Time: one standard action
Range: close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: one summoned creature
Duration: one round/level
As summon monster IV and the summoned creature gains a +4 armour bonus to AC.

Fortified Servitor IV
Target Word: Single (0)
Effect Words: Servitor IV (Summoning level 4; cost 8), Fortify (Body level 1; cost 5)
Level/Cost: 4/13
School: summoning/transmutation
Casting Time: one standard action
Range: close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: one summoned creature
Duration: one round/level
As summon monster IV and the summoned creature gains a +1 resistance bonus on saving throws and temporary hit points equal to its Hit Dice.

Enhanced Servitor VI
Target Word: Single (0)
Effect Words: Servitor VI (Summoning level 6; cost 13), Enhance Form (Body level 2; cost 7)
Level/Cost: 6/20
School: summoning/transmutation
Casting Time: one standard action
Range: close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: one summoned creature
Duration: one round/level
As summon monster VI and the summoned creature gains a +4 enhancement bonus to strength, dexterity or constitution. The creature may end this bonus as a swift action to gain a +8 enhancement to the same ability score until the end of its next turn.


I know it is a small thing, but at least with "Enhanced," you won't be able to stack either a Strength or Constitution bonus with Augment Summoning.


Saedar wrote:
I know it is a small thing, but at least with "Enhanced," you won't be able to stack either a Strength or Constitution bonus with Augment Summoning.

That's true, but you can put it on dex and it is definitely worthwhile if you don't have the feat.


Rogue Eidolon wrote:

From my other thread:

Crimson Lightning (requires 1 point of word burning)

Target Word: Mass
Effect Words: Fire Blast and Lightning Blast
Level/Cost: 5/17
Duration: Instantaneous
Save: Reflex half
SR: Yes

The targets take 1d6 per level (max 10d6) fire damage and 1d6 per level (max 10d6) lightning damage.

I was working on a sample character and this got me thinking. If I make a Draconic Sorcerer and choose a dragon with lightning damage (for the purposes of this question), do I gain the Bloodline Arcana bonus for +10 damage or +20 damage, in the case of Rogue Eidolon's example spell at max damage.

The Bloodline Arcana makes no mention of the damage die having to be of the specific damage type, just that the spell has a matching descriptor. In this case, the spell would have both the Electricity and Fire descriptors.


By strict reading, it would appear to add to add damage dice, not just those of the one energy type. It would be the same case when using the Elemental Spell metamagic from the APG to do a half of each energy type spell.


Umbral Reaver wrote:
Word of power summoning appears to be strictly better than regular summoning.

I'm not seeing anything in the summoning guidelines that indicates how to get multiple creatures. It appears that's the realm of straight casters, unless a multiple or mass target would produce this effect, but that's not clear.

-Ben.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Evil Space Mantis wrote:

Except that Distant costs 4 and Meta's for some reason require you to already have 2 Effect words.

Here is my optimized version:

'Rixx wrote:

Sniper Shot (Level 2)

Target Word: Mass (2)
Effect Words: Force Bolt (Force, 5)
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

Shoot a 5d4 bolt of force at at least 5 targets within 30 feet of each other, at least 150 feet away!

Basically, the Mass Target Word is your friend for blastin :D

Force Bolt has Single Target Word Restriction... sorry doesn't work...


terraleon wrote:

I'm not seeing anything in the summoning guidelines that indicates how to get multiple creatures. It appears that's the realm of straight casters, unless a multiple or mass target would produce this effect, but that's not clear.

-Ben.

You're right. Wordsummoning (I'm going to call it that now) only allows a single creature of the equivalent summon monster level. That is one downside, but for single creatures it's rather potent.


Yeehaw, into the breach:

Bile Blast (Level 4)
Target Word: Mass (2)
Effect Words: Corrosive Bolt (Acid, 7), Wrack (Pain, 4)
Duration: Instantaneous, 1 rnd/level
Saving Throw: Special: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Means everyone takes 5d4 damage if hit and sickened 1/rnd level (Fort Negates), then 5d4 next round if hit.

boo-yah!

-Ben.

EDIT: I think that Pain word should probably be at the higher cost, but that paragraph is in desperate need of clarification and an example or two.


Fireball is a 5th level spell in this system

Medium Burst (5Pts) Distant- Meta (4 pts) Fire Blast (6 pts) = Total (15 Pts).


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
pad300 wrote:

Fireball is a 5th level spell in this system

Medium Burst (5Pts) Distant- Meta (4 pts) Fire Blast (6 pts) = Total (15 Pts).

Except that Meta Words require the spell to include at least 2 Effect Words. I'm still not sure why this is the case, but as it stands that spell can't be made as you wrote it.

If you dropped Distant, you could make Fireball as a 4th level spell. You could even make it 3rd level with Word Burning.


terraleon wrote:

Yeehaw, into the breach:

Bile Blast (Level 4)
Target Word: Mass (2)
Effect Words: Corrosive Bolt (Acid, 7), Wrack (Pain, 4)
Duration: Instantaneous, 1 rnd/level
Saving Throw: Special: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Means everyone takes 5d4 damage if hit and sickened 1/rnd level (Fort Negates), then 5d4 next round if hit.

boo-yah!

-Ben.

If it's 4th level, aren't you better off using acid wave, and it's built in Sickening effect?

Mass (2), Acid Wave (9), Flame Jet (2) = 13 pts... still 4th level

10d6 acid damage + 1d4 fire, auto sicken for 1 rnd even if save made...


Shadar Aman wrote:
pad300 wrote:

Fireball is a 5th level spell in this system

Medium Burst (5Pts) Distant- Meta (4 pts) Fire Blast (6 pts) = Total (15 Pts).

Except that Meta Words require the spell to include at least 2 Effect Words. I'm still not sure why this is the case, but as it stands that spell can't be made as you wrote it.

If you dropped Distant, you could make Fireball as a 4th level spell. You could even make it 3rd level with Word Burning.

Isn't the meta word itself an effect word (See the list at the end - it doesn't include the target words, but does the meta words.) - that's why they need at least 2 effect words. The Meta word + 1 word to actually do something...


pad300 wrote:

Fireball is a 5th level spell in this system

Medium Burst (5Pts) Distant- Meta (4 pts) Fire Blast (6 pts) = Total (15 Pts).

Eh! Lookitthat. Well, I guess(?) we see where the flexibility has its cost? But really, who needs the range? You can get by on:

MbFB3:11 (Medium Burst Fire Blast (lvl3): 11pts) and still hit 3rd.

That's going to be 150 minimum. Combats happening at 400+ feet are more wargamer, ship-to-ship or dogfighting territory.

-Ben.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
pad300 wrote:
Shadar Aman wrote:
pad300 wrote:

Fireball is a 5th level spell in this system

Medium Burst (5Pts) Distant- Meta (4 pts) Fire Blast (6 pts) = Total (15 Pts).

Except that Meta Words require the spell to include at least 2 Effect Words. I'm still not sure why this is the case, but as it stands that spell can't be made as you wrote it.

If you dropped Distant, you could make Fireball as a 4th level spell. You could even make it 3rd level with Word Burning.

Isn't the meta word itself an effect word (See the list at the end - it doesn't include the target words, but does the meta words.) - that's why they need at least 2 effect words. The Meta word + 1 word to actually do something...

That would explain it. Still reads a bit odd (of course you need another effect word, or the spell wouldn't DO anything) but I guess they wanted to be clear.

At least now the system as a whole makes more sense to me. Thanks.


pad300 wrote:
terraleon wrote:

Yeehaw, into the breach:

Bile Blast (Level 4)
Target Word: Mass (2)
Effect Words: Corrosive Bolt (Acid, 7), Wrack (Pain, 4)
Duration: Instantaneous, 1 rnd/level
Saving Throw: Special: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Means everyone takes 5d4 damage if hit and sickened 1/rnd level (Fort Negates), then 5d4 next round if hit.

boo-yah!

-Ben.

If it's 4th level, aren't you better off using acid wave, and it's built in Sickening effect?

Mass (2), Acid Wave (9), Flame Jet (2) = 13 pts... still 4th level

10d6 acid damage + 1d4 fire, auto sicken for 1 rnd even if save made...

Because you have multiple effects, you pay the requisite cost of 12 for acid wave, not 9, that's the X/Y formatting of cost.

Your spell is Mass 2+Acid Wave 12+ flame jet 2= 16 (5th).

-Ben.


Potentially Broken

Spell: Suicide
Single (o pts)
Simple Order (boosted) (9 pts): SUICIDE

Effect: The target spends it's next round coup de grace'ing itself...

You also have 4 extra points to play with. You could add meta Distant. There might just be a saving throw penalty word somewhere...

Cancel this - that's a complete misread of what the boost effect does...


terraleon wrote:
pad300 wrote:
terraleon wrote:

Yeehaw, into the breach:

Bile Blast (Level 4)
Target Word: Mass (2)
Effect Words: Corrosive Bolt (Acid, 7), Wrack (Pain, 4)
Duration: Instantaneous, 1 rnd/level
Saving Throw: Special: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

Means everyone takes 5d4 damage if hit and sickened 1/rnd level (Fort Negates), then 5d4 next round if hit.

boo-yah!

-Ben.

If it's 4th level, aren't you better off using acid wave, and it's built in Sickening effect?

Mass (2), Acid Wave (9), Flame Jet (2) = 13 pts... still 4th level

10d6 acid damage + 1d4 fire, auto sicken for 1 rnd even if save made...

Because you have multiple effects, you pay the requisite cost of 12 for acid wave, not 9, that's the X/Y formatting of cost.

Your spell is Mass 2+Acid Wave 12+ flame jet 2= 16 (5th).

-Ben.

Not as I read it

"If an effect word has a second cost listed, separated by a
“/,” the second number is the cost of the effect word if it
is added to a spell that already contains one effect word.
The highest-level effect word is always considered the
first word added to a spell. Lower-level words are added
later and are subject to this increased cost."

Acid wave would be the highest level (and therefore 1st) effect...


terraleon wrote:
pad300 wrote:

Fireball is a 5th level spell in this system

Medium Burst (5Pts) Distant- Meta (4 pts) Fire Blast (6 pts) = Total (15 Pts).

Eh! Lookitthat. Well, I guess(?) we see where the flexibility has its cost? But really, who needs the range? You can get by on:

MbFB3:11 (Medium Burst Fire Blast (lvl3): 11pts) and still hit 3rd.

That's going to be 150 minimum. Combats happening at 400+ feet are more wargamer, ship-to-ship or dogfighting territory.

-Ben.

Except that according to my copy, it looks like Level 3 has a max value of 10. Medium Burst + Fire Blast puts you into Level 4 spells at a value of 11. Or, at least I think I'm looking at this right.


However, you could do Mass+Acid Wave= 11, which is 4th, and it would do more damage right away, and keep the sickened effect to 1 round vs my first example with damage spread over two rounds (with no save for the damage)

I believe we've found a winner for multiple ways to essentially create the same (but slightly different) effect

Mass+Acid Bolt+Wrack=13 (4th) Bile Blast
Mass+Acid Wave=11 (4th) mass Acid Wave

BB average damage on a hit 25pts (no save), sickened 7 rounds, fort negates sickened.
MAW average damage on a hit 24.5pts, sickened 7 rounds, reflex halves damage and reduces sickened to 1 round.

I'd prefer Bile Blast personally, but I can see people wanting a guaranteed sickened condition preferring Mass Acid Wave.

-Ben.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
pad300 wrote:

Potentially Broken

Spell: Suicide
Single (o pts)
Simple Order (boosted) (9 pts): SUICIDE

Effect: The target spends it's next round coup de grace'ing itself...

You also have 4 extra points to play with. You could add meta Distant. There might just be a saving throw penalty word somewhere...

I think you may have misinterpreted what the Boost text means. Using any target word means you could create a Simple Order spell with the Mass target word, or the Medium Burst target word. It doesn't mean you can make up any command you want; you're still restricted to the commands listed.


Saedar wrote:


Except that according to my copy, it looks like Level 3 has a max value of 10. Medium Burst + Fire Blast puts you into Level 4 spells at a value of 11. Or, at least I think I'm looking at this right.

You're right. Fingers were faster than the brain. I'll slow down.

-Ben.


pad300 wrote:

Potentially Broken

Spell: Suicide
Single (o pts)
Simple Order (boosted) (9 pts): SUICIDE

Effect: The target spends it's next round coup de grace'ing itself...

You also have 4 extra points to play with. You could add meta Distant. There might just be a saving throw penalty word somewhere...

I don't think "suicide" is a valid command. The boosted option just means you can make it Mass or in a Cone or somesuch.

EDIT: And ninja'd. Oh well.


Shadar Aman wrote:
pad300 wrote:

Potentially Broken

Spell: Suicide
Single (o pts)
Simple Order (boosted) (9 pts): SUICIDE

Effect: The target spends it's next round coup de grace'ing itself...

You also have 4 extra points to play with. You could add meta Distant. There might just be a saving throw penalty word somewhere...

I think you may have misinterpreted what the Boost text means. Using any target word means you could create a Simple Order spell with the Mass target word, or the Medium Burst target word. It doesn't mean you can make up any command you want; you're still restricted to the commands listed.

Yeppers, fixed above...


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
terraleon wrote:
Saedar wrote:


Except that according to my copy, it looks like Level 3 has a max value of 10. Medium Burst + Fire Blast puts you into Level 4 spells at a value of 11. Or, at least I think I'm looking at this right.

You're right. Fingers were faster than the brain. I'll slow down.

-Ben.

It can still be 3rd, you just need to burn some words.


When I saw that it gave me an idea. I looked and... was saddened. Maybe it's for the best that you can't summon a creature so that it appears in an explosion of fire.


pad300 wrote:


Not as I read it
"If an effect word has a second cost listed, separated by a
“/,” the second number is the cost of the effect word if it
is added to a spell that already contains one effect word.
The highest-level effect word is always considered the
first word added to a spell. Lower-level words are added
later and are subject to this increased cost."

Acid wave would be the highest level (and therefore 1st) effect...

And therefore not incur the increased cost. Yes. I agree. :/ Reading comprehension FTW.

So only the second+ word gets the boost, and it behooves you to add words that pad out a spell to the limit without boosted costs, like Flame Jet in the example.

-Ben.


Shadar Aman wrote:
Saedar wrote:


Except that according to my copy, it looks like Level 3 has a max value of 10. Medium Burst + Fire Blast puts you into Level 4 spells at a value of 11. Or, at least I think I'm looking at this right.
It can still be 3rd, you just need to burn some words.

But to do that, you'd need to burn a 4th to do it. Mind you, you could then crank up quite a few thirds with multiple effects. The language for wordburning needs to be cleaned up with an example.

-Ben.


Looking through what we are given, it's clear they've picked the low-hanging fruit for the playtest. Lots of do X dice evocation effects that are easy-ish to balance. But complicated stuff is right out. Try and do charm person?

Single Target (0)
Complex Order (7) (and a minimum of 3ed level...)

You have 3 extra points to play with, this being a minimum of 3ed level.

It's also the same recipe for charm monster...

I don't see any method of getting hold person/monster or Dominate person/monster...And then we could get on to complicated things like Planar binding?

Speaking of Planar Binding, Lets try circle of protection against XXX

Small burst (3) 10 ft radius of effect
Major Hiccup - None of the armor or body words work, because you can't put them on area effects...
ignoring that
Fortify (4)
Force Block (2)

A 1/2 strength protection from evil circle, that doesn't just a) apply to evil creatures b) nullify mind control effects and c) hedge out summoned critters...As a 3ed level spell. It's a lousy fit.


pad300 wrote:

Looking through what we are given, it's clear they've picked the low-hanging fruit for the playtest. Lots of do X dice evocation effects that are easy-ish to balance. But complicated stuff is right out. Try and do charm person?

Single Target (0)
Complex Order (7) (and a minimum of 3ed level...)

You have 3 extra points to play with, this being a minimum of 3ed level.

It's also the same recipe for charm monster...

I don't see any method of getting hold person/monster or Dominate person/monster...And then we could get on to complicated things like Planar binding?

Speaking of Planar Binding, Lets try circle of protection against XXX

Small burst (3) 10 ft radius of effect
Major Hiccup - None of the armor or body words work, because you can't put them on area effects...
ignoring that
Fortify (4)
Force Block (2)

A 1/2 strength protection from evil circle, that doesn't just a) apply to evil creatures b) nullify mind control effects and c) hedge out summoned critters...As a 3ed level spell. It's a lousy fit.

Not saying that there might not be other words to make these things work, but Jason did say in an interview that you won't be able to duplicate every spell with this system. Some things are best done with the traditional system.

Paizo Employee Director of Games

Couple of things...

First off, this thread rocks. I approve of folks exploring what the system can do. We did a fair amount of this in house and it was a lot of fun.

Second, with this system you gain flexibility but lose specificity. You can do lots of different things, but you cannot do some of the specific things that straight spells can do. There is just no way to build that level of option into it.. not without a much bigger footprint in the book.

Anyway.. carry on folks. I look forward to seeing what folks come up with.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing


I think the system needs to be modified to include multiple target words.
Consider a wall of stone spell. It has range (ie you can cast it away from your own square), as well as an effect area which is a line

With that in mind
Wall of Stone
Single (0) Makes 1 wall, up to 25+5ft/level away
Medium Line (3) up to 60 ft long
Stone Barrier (12) (note, it's weird that this isn't permanent)

15 pts, fits just nicely as a level 5 spell...

Lets try something nasty....

At the Bottom of a Well

Single (0) Targets a single creature
Large Line (5) Up to 120 ft circumfrence circle around said creature
Stone Barrier (12)
Unfortunately there is no effect to fill the well. Something like a corrosive bolt effect?
Corrosive Bolt (7)
Hypothetical Extend Meta (2)

PS Geometrically, lines don't have to be straight, just continuous. Not so sure about the game system terminology, but the effect is right.

Total 24 : 7th level? Traps the target inside a circular wall of stone and commits 5d4 per melee of acid damage?

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Flash Combustion [Terror (9), Fire blast (8), Small Burst(3)]

School Necromancy and Evocation [Fear*, Fire, Mind Affecting*] Level Wizard/sorcerer 6 (can be brought down to 4th or 5th level via word burning)
Casting Time 1 Standard Action
Components V, S, M
Range Close (25ft. + 5/2 levels)
Area 10-ft. radius spread
Duration 1 round/level or 1 round, see text
Saving Throw Will partial* and half, see text; Spell Resistance Yes

Calling forth you power over the very processes of life and energy, you spark a flame in the midst of a small group of creatures; and though the fire last but a second, it instills great fear in the minds of the target.
All creatures in the area suddenly combust into flames taking 1d6 fire damage per caster level (maximum of 10d6). In addition the creatures are frightened. The flames quickly fade and do not continue to do damage after the initial burst but the frightened effect continues for the duration of the spell.
If a target makes the will save, they instead only take half of the fire damage and are only shaken for one round.

*The Terror Word needs to be edited to take into account fear effect, mind affecting, and for some reason it says negates when I think it's clearly partial.

A spell I thought might do some good against rogues and fighters. Let me know what you think.


As an attempt at cheese-weaselage

Mass (2)
Corrosive Bolt (5)
Frost Fingers (7)
Shock Arc (5)
19 Points - 6th level spell (or 5th with word burning...)
Add intensify spell metamagic 6th or 7th level

20d4 + 10 d6 + 10d4 next turn + possible staggered. To multiple targets. Decent but not overpowered for a 6th or 7th level spell. Breaks the damage cap pretty strongly though.


So, Frost rend:

Single 0 + Frost fingers 7 + torture 6 -> 4th, or 3rd with Wordburning?

Wordburning needs clarification, because it seems like the bonus wordcount can't kick the baseline spell over the limit for the level, but allows me to fill out the spell if needed?

But this would do 18.5pts of damage on average (Ref for half) and leave the target nauseated for 7 rounds, with a Fort save each round. SR would apply.

Part of me thinks that I ought to grab my bestiary and see if we're matching up to the average damage for an appropriate CR monster.

-Ben.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Death Cloud [Caustic Cloud (18), Simple Order (6+5(Boosted)), Small Burst(3)]

School Conjuration and Enchantment (Compulsion) [Acid, Language Dependent, Mind Affecting] Level Wizard/sorcerer 9
Casting Time 1 Standard Action
Components V, S, M
Range Close (25ft. + 5/2 levels)
Area 10-ft. radius spread
Duration 1 round/level and 1 round, see text
Saving Throw Fortitude half and negate, see text; Spell Resistance Yes

At your command, a small, sickly green cloud, that obscures vision, sprouts into being. Creatures caught in the cloud must make a Fortitude save. If a failure, the creature takes 1d6 points of acid damage per caster level (maximum 20d6), is fatigued, and is put under a halt compulsion, standing completely still and taking no other actions. If successful, the acid damage is halved, and both the fatigued condition and the halt compulsion are negated. Either way, the cloud continues to persist for 1 round per caster level and the halt compulsion only lasts for 1 round. Creatures who enter the cloud after it has been cast or who stayed in the cloud another round are not once again subject to the halt effect. Creatures that remain in the cloud take a cumulative – 2 penalty on the save each round they remain in the cloud, but spending just 1 round outside the cloud’s area resets this penalty. Creatures in the cloud that are fatigued become exhausted on a failed saving throw. A strong wind, such as that created by a gust of wind, disperses this cloud immediately.

-I'm not certain but I believe the damage from caustic cloud is supposed to repeat itself... the spell was kinda designed to optimize that part. That being said, even if it doesn't, the ability to better your chances of fatiguing or exhausting your enemies is a nice addition as well. Feel free to comment.

**********

Hey Jason, could you come up with some comprehensive rules on how descriptors interact? For example, since this spell and the other one I posted up both either had the mind-affecting descriptor or may have supposed to have the descriptor, undead and vermin are both incidentally immune to the damaging aspects of the spell which came from words that didn't have those descriptors. I just need to know if that is the intention or a small thing over looked or if I'm blind and can't find that part. Also, while the example makes it clear what happens when you boost an effect that is a secondary word, could you change the wording of the boost line to make it clearer that is the intent. My boost here says it should be 9 but then I read the section on that it more less says to add the difference.

"If the spell has a boost option and is added to a
spell with a higher-level effect word, increase the
boosted cost by the same amount. For example, if a spell
has a cost of “7/9” and a boosted cost of 12, that boosted
effect would cost 14 if added to a spell with a higher level
effect word."

and

"Boost: By increasing the level of this word to 4 and the
cost to 9, this spell can use any target word."

would only make sense if I had read the first paragraph. Perhaps using:

"Boost: By increasing the level of this word by 3 and the
cost by 5, this spell can use any target word."

Just some thoughts. I'm really enjoying this system. Thanks for cobbling it together and putting it out for us to mess with.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 8

You guys are underestimating word burning by about spell level a decent amount of the time.

For example:

pad300 wrote:

Mass (2)

Corrosive Bolt (5)
Frost Fingers (7)
Shock Arc (5)
19 Points - 6th level spell (or 5th with word burning...)
Add intensify spell metamagic 6th or 7th level

20d4 + 10 d6 + 10d4 next turn + possible staggered. To multiple targets. Decent but not overpowered for a 6th or 7th level spell. Breaks the damage cap pretty strongly though.

That spell, which is pretty vicious, can be squeezed into a 3rd level slot by a 7th level caster word burning. Which downs the damage to 14d4+7d6+7d4 thanks to the CL dependent nature of the damage but still... avg 77 damage each to 7 targets and staggered for a round if they miss the save. That'll either kill outright or more usually reduce a CR7 monster to being 1 hit by your companions. And no risk of hitting friendly targets. Its still a Reflex save though, so Evasion mitigates this a bit.

Hmm, further reading means you need to make a ranged touch attack against all the targets. Not a huge drawback, but interesting.


Evil Space Mantis wrote:
You guys are underestimating word burning by about spell level a decent amount of the time.

This implies you're interpreting Wordburning correctly. We still haven't gotten clarification of my question here.

If it allows you to juice a spell up past the limit for the level, awesome. Then, yes, you certainly could. If you use it to round out effects past the minimum for the level but less than the next level, it works differently.

That's unclear from the text. In particular:

Quote:
This does not increase the maximum word level of these slots, but it does allow more expensive words to be combined in lower-level spell slots.

It could mean that the pool of extra words from a burnt 4th level spell allows you to pad out third level spells to 11 or 12 points, second to 8 or 9 points, etc. It's the first part of that sentence that leads me to believe this may be the case. That greatly alters the effect of wordburning.

-Ben.

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