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First off, I'm actually a 'Cat Person' in RL, but I have found it odd, since 3.0 that their isn't an option for having a small dog for a familiar.
I'm thinking a little terrier (Bostons are my fave, although there isn't a Boston in Golarion...:D ).
I know that I could just use the stats for a small dog from the Bestiary, but ideas for what bonus it gives to the Wizard/Witch (My character is
actually a Magus with the Familiar Arcana).
Dogs have both Good saves for Fort and Ref..Maybe +1 to each? Some Familiars give +2 to one, so it seems on par.
Gaining Scent seems a bit powerful.
I would have to tool down the stats, as the Small Dog is way too powerful for an Familiar..Str 13, D4+1 Dam, etc...
Thoughts?
-Uriel
As you noted, animals of size Small are generally a bit better than the usual familiar animals (which are generally size Tiny or Diminutive).
Note that In 3.5, Unearthed Arcana had a variant where a wizard could swap out his familiar for an animal companion using half his wizard level as his effective druid level. That might work for you.
Apart from the statistics, a dog just isn't a traditional familiar, being a domesticated animal. What's next, sheep? (Probably in the Mabinogion)
Familiars are often animals the more superstitious populace wouldn't trust, and what's more trustful than a dog? As a companion, sure.
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That's highly culture-dependent. In some societies dogs are viewed as unclean, and in others they're looked on as food animals.
Also, your claim that domesticated animals are somehow inappropriate as familiars is neither stated nor implied in the rules. You're free to have it work that way in your own campaign, but it isn't required. Besides, the archetypal familiar is a cat, which in my book at least counts as a domesticated animal.
Apart from the statistics, a dog just isn't a traditional familiar, being a domesticated animal. What's next, sheep? (Probably in the Mabinogion)
Familiars are often animals the more superstitious populace wouldn't trust, and what's more trustful than a dog? As a companion, sure.
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I know that I could just use the stats for a small dog from the Bestiary, but ideas for what bonus it gives to the Wizard/Witch (My character is
actually a Magus with the Familiar Arcana).
There already is a dog familiar if you look closely enough. The fox familiar from the APG is just a dog with the young template. Just change its name back to dog and call it a day. +2 reflex, by the way.
-Mergy
lso, your claim that domesticated animals are somehow inappropriate as familiars is neither stated nor implied in the rules. You're free to have it work that way in your own campaign, but it isn't required. Besides, the archetypal familiar is a cat, which in my book at least counts as a domesticated animal.
I'm talking about the historical reasons for witches familiars, which clearly are the source of the magic-user familiar. The original list was cat (black), crow, hawk, owl, toad and weasel, if I remember correctly (not sure about the hawk).
Size (and thus balance) is the major reason why there's no (proper) dog in the rules. If it weren't, you might find some kind of "hell hound" in there, too.
Small animals can flank with the party rogue. Tiny ones (like most familiars) cannot because tiny creatures have 0 reach
In 3.5 i had a dragon disciple named Todak with a weasel familiar named Pop. Todak would often use enlarge person on pop (legal under 3.5) to move him from tiny to small and send him off to help the rogue flank.
I got the image of my Dragon Age wizard walking around town with his Mabari war hound. It made me smile.
Heh. An oriental wizard with a teensy Chinese Crested in the pocket of his robes somehow appeals to me.
M
http://www.cedarfrost.com/Versaceprophoto2_small.jpg
I got the image of my Dragon Age wizard walking around town with his Mabari war hound. It made me smile.
I think that qualifies under Improved Familiar.
I agree there is good precedence to reskin mechanics of close creatures. Often the game mechanics just can be refined enough to make a difference. Using the young dog which is called a Fox as a tiny toy breed should work, just use the same skill bonus.
Male witch with a long hair chihuahua familiar. :P
First off, I'm actually a 'Cat Person' in RL, but I have found it odd, since 3.0 that their isn't an option for having a small dog for a familiar.
There's a simple reason for that: Those aren't dogs, they're yapping rats! :P
I you want dog then make it just keep in line with rest of the familiars most are tiny or smaller. So you want small rat type dog then take a rat and call it a dog or take cat and call it dog with same sat bock... OR use dog that is small and spend a trait or feat what ever you/ your DM think is worth the advange of it be one size bigger than normal familuar. I mean if you are not attacking with it or Riding then no need to add cost to it. But if you do take Advantage of it size the you should pay foy it slightly better.
I had Fire Wizzard the had Tiny Fire Elemental with the Improved Familiar feat(not on the list but we figured out cost/ level requirment I spend the feat and took it)
It's a Game Have Fun.
It's all ok for wizards, but no witch would want a mangy dog.
So you take your doberman pincer and cast reduce on it to make it tiny, then cast permenent so it stays tiny.... and you have a teacup familliar dog ;)
The idea of a dog familiar is awesome. It makes more sense than a wizard walking around with a toad.
Au contraire: a not inconsiderable part of the magic user's power, especially the witch's power (and while wizards might have copied the practise, it originated with witches), lies with being otherworldly, mysterious, and unsettling.
Dogs are not unsettling, they're loyal companions. Those small purse dog variants will rather spoil the image, of course, and while large dogs might seem frightening, they're nothing more than a common bully, and being common will prove the witch's undoing. Unless you manage to snare a genuine hell hound, of course.
No, you really want something generally considered unclean or uncanny, like a rat, toad, or snake. The added bonus with the toad is that you can claim that he used to be human until he crossed you.
Naturally cats are always an option, too. It takes no genius to know that cats are servants of sinister trickster forces.
Finally, you can use an animal that, while not necessarily being creepy in of itself, is usually not a pet. Something that is never tamed. Foxes work well for that. Foxes are shy creatures by nature, and seeing one eating out of that conjurer's hand will put people in a thoughtful mood. And, of course, people equate foxes approaching with rabies, so you can use even such a weak creature to spread panic.
Anyway, poodles, dachshunds and beagles might be great companions, but they don't fit the familiar's job profile!
Creative Director
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What it basically boils down to is the fact that familiars are Tiny or smaller, whereas once an animal is Small or larger they're more properly utilized as an animal companion. A Small creature (like a dog) is therefore too big to be a familiar.
That said, there's obviously room in the game for Tiny dogs. We just haven't statted them up yet.
And THAT said, there's obviously room in the game for familiars that are Small sized instead of Tiny sized. I'm relatively sure there'll be rules for Small sized familiars like dogs, goats, and pigs in Ultimate Magic.
The idea of a dog familiar is awesome. It makes more sense than a wizard walking around with a toad.Au contraire: a not inconsiderable part of the magic user's power, especially the witch's power (and while wizards might have copied the practise, it originated with witches), lies with being otherworldly, mysterious, and unsettling.
Dogs are not unsettling, they're loyal companions. Those small purse dog variants will rather spoil the image, of course, and while large dogs might seem frightening, they're nothing more than a common bully, and being common will prove the witch's undoing. Unless you manage to snare a genuine hell hound, of course.
No, you really want something generally considered unclean or uncanny, like a rat, toad, or snake. The added bonus with the toad is that you can claim that he used to be human until he crossed you.
Naturally cats are always an option, too. It takes no genius to know that cats are servants of sinister trickster forces.
Finally, you can use an animal that, while not necessarily being creepy in of itself, is usually not a pet. Something that is never tamed. Foxes work well for that. Foxes are shy creatures by nature, and seeing one eating out of that conjurer's hand will put people in a thoughtful mood. And, of course, people equate foxes approaching with rabies, so you can use even such a weak creature to spread panic.
Anyway, poodles, dachshunds and beagles might be great companions, but they don't fit the familiar's job profile!
As JimDiGriz noted, most of this is wrong. Dogs are considered unclean in several cultures, and often are the first animal to show up as "not quite right" in horror movies. Mystical senses are attributed to dogs, canines, jackals, and so forth in various cultures (heck the god Anubis appears as a man with a jackal's head).
Wild dogs are often feared, and any dog you don't know is immediately a potential threat because they are known for biting.
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To the OP, WotC released a web-article about familiars in which a sample BBEG had a dog as a familiar. The dog actually loafed around town as the town dog of sorts and would sleep in front of the fire at the inn or tavern, listen to the PC's plans, scratch the door to go outside, and then report it all to his master on the hill.
What it basically boils down to is the fact that familiars are Tiny or smaller, whereas once an animal is Small or larger they're more properly utilized as an animal companion. A Small creature (like a dog) is therefore too big to be a familiar.
That said, there's obviously room in the game for Tiny dogs. We just haven't statted them up yet.
And THAT said, there's obviously room in the game for familiars that are Small sized instead of Tiny sized. I'm relatively sure there'll be rules for Small sized familiars like dogs, goats, and pigs in Ultimate Magic.
Awesome. I'm glad to hear about the possible small familiars and such. I don't really expect most wizards would want to have their small animals flank people unless it were an emergency (if the dog can flank / aid another, then the dog is also at ground zero).
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Creative Director
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The big advantage Small creatures have over Tiny creatures is not just that Small creatures do more damage... it's that Small creatures can threaten folks, and thus can flank as you say. That's a pretty significant benefit, one that really DOES make using the creature as a combat companion or ally. That's not what the standard familiar is really for.
And THAT said, there's obviously room in the game for familiars that are Small sized instead of Tiny sized. I'm relatively sure there'll be rules for Small sized familiars like dogs, goats, and pigs in Ultimate Magic.
Speaking of magical pigs, will there be any rules for familiar-specific skills or feats? I've always missed that a bit, especially considering that they're intelligent. Yes, the potential for abuse is high, so there probably has to be some kind of counter balance beyond "it might die"…
This...
Using the young dog which is called a Fox as a tiny toy breed should work, just use the same skill bonus.
And this...
So you want small rat type dog then take a rat and call it a dog or take cat and call it dog with same stat block.
Not to pick on the OP whatsoever, but this topic comes up frequently... "Why isn't " Animal " available for said " Class "? While there are almost always specific rule-related reasons why, keep in mind that the game is for the most part based on imagination. Example: No where that I know of, does "Pathfinder"(not 3.5E) say you can play a Ninja, but does that stop you from taking a rogue with a katana (see bastard sword) and stabbing enemies in the night? Nope. Gladiator, Pirate, Lumberjack, etc.
*reaches into the giant bag of imagination and pulls out a rubber chihuahua suit, then stuffs said fox/cat inside *FLUMP* and hands it to the PC* Don't worry, it will eventually stop whining and start barking, if you can call it that.
This is the same advice I gave to a druid looking for a LARGE bear companion... rubber bear suit for a Big Cat! Though obviously you should inform your DM of this before the BEAR... POUNCES, lol.
This...
Using the young dog which is called a Fox as a tiny toy breed should work, just use the same skill bonus.And this...
So you want small rat type dog then take a rat and call it a dog or take cat and call it dog with same stat block.Not to pick on the OP whatsoever, but this topic comes up frequently... "Why isn't " Animal " available for said " Class "? While there are almost always specific rule-related reasons why, keep in mind that the game is for the most part based on imagination. Example: No where that I know of, does "Pathfinder"(not 3.5E) say you can play a Ninja, but does that stop you from taking a rogue with a katana (see bastard sword) and stabbing enemies in the night? Nope. Gladiator, Pirate, Lumberjack, etc.
*reaches into the giant bag of imagination and pulls out a rubber chihuahua suit, then stuffs said fox/cat inside *FLUMP* and hands it to the PC* Don't worry, it will eventually stop whining and start barking, if you can call it that.
This is the same advice I gave to a druid looking for a LARGE bear companion... rubber bear suit for a Big Cat! Though obviously you should inform your DM of this before the BEAR... POUNCES, lol.
This.
The Wizard in my Kingmaker game has a umm... quasit, but it looks like a ball of tentacles and eyes from the Great Beyond or whatnot and and has smite law instead of smite good.|
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First off, I'm actually a 'Cat Person' in RL, but I have found it odd, since 3.0 that their isn't an option for having a small dog for a familiar.There's a simple reason for that: Those aren't dogs, they're yapping rats! :P
I'm not talking Chihuahuas, I'm talking a Boston terrier. Hardly a yapping rat. :D When I was 17 or so, my cousin's BT almost killed the pit bull down the street.
-Uriel
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This...
Using the young dog which is called a Fox as a tiny toy breed should work, just use the same skill bonus.And this...
So you want small rat type dog then take a rat and call it a dog or take cat and call it dog with same stat block.Not to pick on the OP whatsoever, but this topic comes up frequently... "Why isn't " Animal " available for said " Class "? While there are almost always specific rule-related reasons why, keep in mind that the game is for the most part based on imagination. Example: No where that I know of, does "Pathfinder"(not 3.5E) say you can play a Ninja, but does that stop you from taking a rogue with a katana (see bastard sword) and stabbing enemies in the night? Nope. Gladiator, Pirate, Lumberjack, etc.
*reaches into the giant bag of imagination and pulls out a rubber chihuahua suit, then stuffs said fox/cat inside *FLUMP* and hands it to the PC* Don't worry, it will eventually stop whining and start barking, if you can call it that.
This is the same advice I gave to a druid looking for a LARGE bear companion... rubber bear suit for a Big Cat! Though obviously you should inform your DM of this before the BEAR... POUNCES, lol.
I don't feel picked on at all (Neither my creativity as a player nor as a DM feels any defensiveness,it is quite intact).
I can easily stat out a Dog, or use other stats: I did so for Jaguars,Cheetahs,Pumas etc...since all 'Cats' aren't the same. Just using Leopard for a Cheetah is a bit silly.
I was actually asking opinions from the folks here on what bonus it would grant, based on their perceptions of Dogs, I suppose.
-Uriel
Ninja, but does that stop you from taking a rogue with a katana (see bastard sword) and stabbing enemies in the night?
The typical ninja won't use a katana. He'll use a ninja-to. That's actually a stolen katana that has been shortened. Which is neat, since it's easier to handle AND really insults the guy you've taken this from, his family, his ancestors, his clan, his lord, and everything he and his sword stand for! :)
I'm not talking Chihuahuas, I'm talking a Boston terrier. Hardly a yapping rat. :D
You're right. Rats don't come that ugly! :P
I was actually asking opinions from the folks here on what bonus it would grant, based on their perceptions of Dogs, I suppose.
I'd go with Perception (being watch animals was a big reason behind getting dogs for early humans, or at least I'd think so), or with Survival (sniffer dogs).
But that probably won't fit every breed. That's the thing about dogs: They come in so many breeds, because they're more or less man-made, and man usually has a purpose. There's dogs that make good hunting dogs, dogs that make good watch dogs, dogs that make great purse ornaments, dogs that are great at.....
I could see the player being told to choose a particular breed and something they're good at and grant a fitting bonus.
The suggestion to use the fox seems solid. I suppose that calling it a "dog" has certain RP advantages in that it might be able to roam about in urban areas without causing suspicion, but I don't think that's a significant game balance issue. If the player wants a bigger dog as a familiar I think that's the province of Improved Familiar. I don't think there are a lot of official Paizo options for Improved Familiar, but 3.5 had stuff like worgs and blink dogs.
And THAT said, there's obviously room in the game for familiars that are Small sized instead of Tiny sized. I'm relatively sure there'll be rules for Small sized familiars like dogs, goats, and pigs in Ultimate Magic.
It sounds like my dream of a halfling witch (or maybe sorcerer) who rides around on a pig named Truffles will finally come true! Mobile spellcasting, here I come (of course the Concentration checks might make this not so easy to pull off).
Anyhow, I'd be very interested to know the rules for small sized animal familiars. I'd imagine that you'd probably have to give something up to make up for the fact you've got a flanker and potential mount. It doesn't seem like a goat or pig would be worth as much as the imp or elemental you can get from Improved Familiar though. Using a trait to get a small animal familiar might be balanced, but not all games use traits. I suppose that a separate feat which gives you access to the expanded familiar list plus another small bonus (preferably bonus HP for the familiar) would be cool.
Maybe the feat could be called something like "Combat Familiar". I'd probably let any bonuses from it work for an Improved Familiar too, but you'd need to take both feats. Of course this is just my imagination talking here...no idea what will be in the book...
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Guys, there are stats for the brushtail fennec in the Legacy of Fire Player's Guide. If i remember correctly, it stated that you use the stats for dogs, but with a Str of 6. Bonus is +3 on search (i guess we could go with perception). i guess if you wanted a larger dog, i agree on getting a improved familiar feat. personally would get a wolf, or a celestial fox, something to get you noticed. As Izrador pointed out, dogs just don't count that much as a factor unlike a wild or weird animal may get. personally, i prefer a fennec myself, having grown up with dogs. maybe will see about a wolf next time, when i use an improve familiar feat.
