Teleport as a combat spell. Why not?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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So every translocation spell that I have read allows a save to objects but otherwise the subjects must be willing. Why?

Why can't we use these spells in offensive combat? It would be so cool. Touch a foe and teleport him to the kings' dungeon, or into the air, or onto a mountain top, or into the crypt of a vampire (etc).

I think of movies like Jumper and heroes like Nightcrawler. What they can do is great, and they always use their ability to maximum effectiveness.

Why not here?

Introduce a saving throw and a max damage appropriate to the level of the spell (if someone were to try and teleport a foe into an object or high in the air or under the ocean etc.)

It would make creatures that can teleport at will (when it is not self only) that much more dangerous, and spells like dimensional anchor that much more useful.

I would love to hear from a developer (because I know this version would have been discussed at some point) why this was not allowed in the final version of the spells in question.

thanks.


I admit, I'm surprised that there isn't a "baleful teleport" spell, but I don't think folding that sort of power into the existing teleportation spell is a good idea. (You ask why this doesn't already exist, and then immediately answer your own question with several examples of why it would be pretty broken.)

As it's own, separate spell, though, some sort of baleful teleport would be great. It wouldn't be much more powerful than your typical save-vs-death spell, but the wording and what it does and doesn't allow would have to be carefully thought out. Teleporting one enemy INSIDE another would be a problem, for example.


Teleport is already an EXCEPTIONALLY powerful spell, and anything like this would lead to more DC-raising, familiar delivering, touch attacking cheese than anyone ever thought possible. The developer answer would be...because it's a crazy bad idea. There are enough instant kill spells, even if it would be cool.


A Teleport Other spell would be yet another save or die spell.

The Upper Temple of Orcus on the 4th level of Rappan Athuk had a cleric with a limited charge ring that could Teleport Other. Tactics were to teleport target into lava for 20d6 damage. That was pretty kind. There are much, much worse things you can do with teleporting an enemy.

Scarab Sages

In a completely different game but using a completely similar tactic the spell specifically read that I could open a one way transport "doorway" from point A to point B as long as it was within the distance listed OR "line of sight".

Well, the SUN is line of sight in many cases, right? I mean, there it is, right? So surely Mr. DM, all I gots to do is open said doorway, 1 way, enter here on earth and end there on sun....now bullrush my enemy thither and....

well, you get the idea. Broken.


In one game I played in, turned out the BBEG didn't need us to turn Teleport into a weapon. I don't recall the exact circumstances, but I believe he was attempting to escape. Our DM, being honest, rolled on the familiarity table just to be sure... and ended up off target. Unfortunately for the BBEG, rather than just trying to get away to a safe place in the city, he was attempting to go to one of his strongholds some dozen or so miles away. The random roll for the % of distance was reasonably high. The random direction... put him out to sea. Oops.

In character, I'm not sure we ever found out what happened to him. We sure as hell had a big laugh of it outside of character though. :)


And on the other side, players would HATE it.

For example:

"The bad guys touches you, and you're teleported to a trap that crushes you for 20d6 damage, then drops you as a free action into a vat of poison. The poison has been awakened, so it has stats like a huge black pudding, but poisonous.

A swarm of tiny acid demons live in the poison. They're immune to the poison and the acid, and too small to be crushed. They attack, and automatically hit.

Did I mention that this was on the negative energy plane? Inside an antimagic field? It's also pitch black, and make a swim check, or you'll drown in the poison while it's eating you.


*Casts Baleful Polymorph* Puts enemy in burlap sack. Beats burlap sack against rock until contents become pasty. Spreads on cracker.

Dark Archive

wasnt there a psionic power that did this? it may have been 3.0, IIRC it was basically disintegrate (2d6 per caster level, allowed a save to only take like 5d6 damage)

also there was the dislocator weapon ability to teleport people you hit (and the greater variety that plane shifted them)


Patrick Murphy wrote:


Why not here?

I'm not even one of the game developers and it's obvious to me:

In 3.5, there are a lot of spells where if you fail the save, you're done. You're dead, you're incapacitated, or you're near useless. Fight over for you.

If you look at those same spells in PF, almost all of them, they're a lot less powerful. They do something weaker than they used to, or you get a save every round to negate them where you didn't before, etc.

Given that, why would you put a spell in the game that's got extreme utility value and lets you save-or-out-of-the-fight to people without teleport themselves? A major feature of this revision of the game is that it's less true that casters completely run the game -- teleport as an offensive spell would run very counter to that design philosophy.


Remember how cool it looked before your fighter was teleported on a sunny glade 100 miles northward in the trapped forest-labyrinth of Drav, your Rogue materialized in the Slime pit in some forgotten vault in Orv and your Cleric right in the middle of the temple of Razimir some 60 miles to the west. Yes, your wizard probably fiured that it's high time to teleport home and seek a new party that will remember to protect itself with a Dimensional Anchor before facing that lich again.


rkraus2 wrote:

And on the other side, players would HATE it.

For example:

"The bad guys touches you, and you're teleported to a trap that crushes you for 20d6 damage, then drops you as a free action into a vat of poison. The poison has been awakened, so it has stats like a huge black pudding, but poisonous.

A swarm of tiny acid demons live in the poison. They're immune to the poison and the acid, and too small to be crushed. They attack, and automatically hit.

Did I mention that this was on the negative energy plane? Inside an antimagic field? It's also pitch black, and make a swim check, or you'll drown in the poison while it's eating you.

This is what I was going to say, not in these exact words, but the basic same thought. +1


I think a Baleful Teleport would work great as a sixth or seventh level spell, depending on the varieties of effect. Remember, clerics get Plane Shift as a fifth level spell at 9th level, and that can send you to a pretty dangerous environ somewhere on the planes.

Now, if the spell can merely send its victim to a totally randomized place on the planet as dangerous as one of the Planes, I could easily see it as a fifth level spell.

If you only have some degree of control over where you send someone (like a more randomized teleport, would have to fiddle with the percentages, maybe only 75% on target at most), that ups it a level. Adding in the option to teleport them into the sky for 20d6 falling damage... I'd say sixth is good, since you get Stone to Flesh at that level, and flying/gliding/feather fall negates the damage.

If you can control the location of your victim exactly (as per Greater Teleport), I'd make it eighth level, as its pretty much a Finger of Death at this point that no creature type is immune to. Only this spell could teleport someone into an object, fusing their molecules and killing them.

Of course, Dimensional Anchor (a fourth level spell) protects against these.


Yeah yeah, broken broken. I know people were going to say that. But I think it can come down to how the DM plays it out what kind of restrictions are put into place so that 'broken' doesn't happen.
Honestly, everything in the game can become broken if pushed too far or handled poorly. I've seen this time and again in posts and games on everything from availiable magic items, to level of treasure, to uber feat or class combinations etc. Thoses things don't have to happen if the DM doesn't let it happen.

Same can go for this.

Instead of just complaining that it is a broken idea, lets try and set some restrictions on the idea ( like there are restrictions on other powerful spells - too many to mention)

like:

Level cap for damage or baleful distance teleported depending on the level of the teleportation spell. Hell just being able to use the spells against anyone would be an asset without directly doing damage!

Who says it has to be instant death? Why not just full or half damage depending on the save(as per level cap mentioned above.

Increasing the level of the offensive version of the spell by two spell levels.

Come on! I know there are way brighter and more talented people than me on these boards. Help me make this work instead of just being critical and shooting it down.

then, after we've all had a go, tried it, and it STILL doesn't work, I would be very happy to say, "YES, this is a completely broken idea."

Liberty's Edge

How about "You can teleport them, but you have to go with."
Or "You can teleport them to any open square within 10ft per caster level that you also possess both line of sight and line of effect to."
Or "They only teleport to that location for an instant before returning, but the experience fatigues/exhausts them" for a lower level version.

Sovereign Court

Maybe the baleful version is more like dimension door in range, and requires line of sight. You can't teleport anyone into anyone else, because by the time you have line of sight to the inside of that someone else, it's no longer really "inside". Unless you've been swallowed by the tyrannosaur too. hehe. If you create caveats like the summoning spells that you can't send them to someplace outside their normal environment (i.e. 400' straight up in the air), it's a crowd control spell more like a wall than anything - split the enemy up and take them down one at a time...


Patrick Murphy wrote:

Yeah yeah, broken broken. I know people were going to say that. But I think it can come down to how the DM plays it out what kind of restrictions are put into place so that 'broken' doesn't happen.

What it amounts to is, even if it just lets you get one person out of the fight completely unharmed for a minute, it's still too strong.

In 3.5 it wouldn't have been, but in PF, the spells that are stronger than that are largely gone.

If you want a game where casters are more powerful than that, this isn't that game, and while I prefer to play casters, I'm glad it's not that game.


An offensive teleport type spell similar to dimension door might work, but basing one off teleport would be a little too much for the system to take I think.


In 3.5e there was Baleful Transposition, which was a short range swap. Basically you could swap the positions of two characters on the battlefield against their will. It was a level 2 arcane spell in 3.5e. (Both characters had to be in contact with the same series of solid objects such as the ground, a bridge, or a rope.)

I could see something like that being in Pathfinder. It's just battlefield manipulation. Maybe make it a higher spell level though, level 2 does seem a bit low.


Patrick Murphy wrote:
Yeah yeah, broken broken...

Not broken, just not fun.

I would not be afraid of ingenious players, I'd be afraid of malicious DMs...


For the record in 3.0 there was just such a spell. It was called "Nailed to the Sky" and it teleported the target into a stable orbit. Awesome spell, one of my all time favorite.

Want to know what book it was in?

Drum roll.....

The Epic Level Handbook

There was a damn good reason why it was. As had been said Teleport is already hugely powerful, making it a save or screwed effect on top of that is game breaking. And remember that Nailed to the Sky couldn't send you all over the place or the enemy to a specific place, yet it was considered an epic spell.

I played in a Rolemaster game where the GM allowed exactly that tactic. It was annoying as hell and frankly not really any fun.


Patrick Murphy wrote:

Level cap for damage or baleful distance teleported depending on the level of the teleportation spell. Hell just being able to use the spells against anyone would be an asset without directly doing damage!

Who says it has to be instant death? Why not just full or half damage depending on the save(as per level cap mentioned above.

The problem with Teleport Other isn't damage, but the situations you can put someone into. There is no way to modify the spell to prevent situations.

Just off the top of my head...
1. In Rappan Athuk, the cleric teleports the victim to Orcus on level 15. It will require a deity's intervention to raise the character.
2. Teleport victim to a Red Mantis assassin HQ. If the victim is raised, the Red Mantis will know it and send a team to kill the victim again.
3. Teleport victim to bedroom of the kingdom's Queen.
4. Teleport victim 1 foot above a permanent anti-magic field with all sorts of nastiness within it.


If it send someone to a random spot on the planet about as dangerous as a plane, it could be a level five spell (like Plane Shift for clerics).

If it sends someone anywhere you know of with no chance of failure (as per greater teleport), including orbit, the bottom of the sea, 4 miles underground, your prison stronghold, etc, it could be a level eight spell (a more versatile Finger of Death that is negated by Dimensional Anchor, a fourth level spell).

A spell that sends an opponent into the air (for 20d6 damage if they can't fly, float, glide, etc) is probably fifth or sixth.

Other variations could exist of course.


Eh, worst case scenario it's a save or die. Pathfinder doesn't like SoDs, it got rid of most of them, but, as mentioned, a clever plane shift is a SoD, too, which is a 7th level Wizard spell.

Liberty's Edge

"Teleport Away" could be a fun offensive spell, but it would have to be nonlethal. Basically, it teleports somebody away to a reasonably safe location.


I still think tht something that randomly scatters the party (not just a wall to divide them) would be a pain for both players and DM as well. And advising the DM not to use it against the players is not really a good option IMO.


Patrick Murphy wrote:

Y

Who says it has to be instant death? Why not just full or half damage depending on the save(as per level cap mentioned above.

Because every caster with access to such a spell will prepare properly to use it to full effectiveness?

Which, unless the caster uses Wis/Cha and made Int a dump stat, will result in "instant death".

Lots of examples given already, but everybody that is not a caster themselves is pretty easy to "off". Wether with a resetting or perpetual damage-"trap" with a room without exit. Or the middle of the ocean, or volcano, or the freezing north(think antarctica)...

This means it essentially becomes a save-or-die, and not only that, since the remains will be gone, it becomes a save-or-die that needs, in the nastier cases, wish/miracle/true resurrection to fix.

Even a simple baleful dimension door can be used to jump 400 feet back into the room with no door that has an triggered(delay)ongoing switching reverse-gravity effect with a 15 ton stone builder(never miss), and getting out again. Add things like a natural fly speed or a "beam other" where you don't need to come along, and things get truly crazy.


The APG has jester's jaunt, a spell that teleports one sucker up to 30 feet (but not in a dangerous spot)

There's a psionic power called baleful teleport, but it's basically a damage-dealing spell, as it teleports little parts of the target away.

When I read "Teleport as a combat spell" I didn't think teleporting others. I thought teleporting into others. Telefragmentation, if you will.

I wrote a spell like that once - telefragmentation was a Sor/Wis 8 spell based on dimension door, except that the target got a fort save or was torn to pieces by you appearing there. And all his friends that were close to him had to make a will save or be shaken by this gruesome display.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 8

I think the "brokenness" of the ability comes down to one thing: Letting the caster of the spell pick the destination!

If you made Baleful Teleport just force the destination to be random and non-damaging it becomes much less abusable. Then this becomes useful and/or cool for a couple tactics, without being a Save or Die in most situations. I would also keep the range of the teleport quite short, probably 1d10 miles. I could even see a lower level version that was maybe 1d10 x 1000 feet. This is far enough away that the guy isn't right around the corner, but not so far that you won't be able to find him if you want. It also means NPCs can use it on PCs and the PC is back in the action in a few in game hours at most, so hopefully their player is back in the action within an encounter or two (assuming the rest of the party want to wait for him). Its also not always gonna be a great option for the bad guys. Sure, you zapped the PC away, but now he can come back with extra friends...

Awesome reasons to use it:

1. You are fighting an opponent that is significantly stronger in some kind of inner sanctum, and so forcing him out and then fighting him in some other terrain is useful.

2. You are faced with some kind of foe you cannot deal with at the moment, but could with some preparation. Buy yourselves some time.

3.Alternatively, force the marauding hellbeast out of the city/town/whatever and away from innocent bystanders so you can unload fiery death on him with impudence.

4. Its a non-lethal solution to a combat. Maybe someone wants you dead, but you don't want to risk injuring/killing them. This would work especially well against people you think are being dominated by some duration based spell or magic item. Basically a "go away and cool off" option. Also fun if you are in some kind of a race to recover some artifact with a group/individual that you may dislike, but could not really condone killing.

5. The BBEG is in the control chamber/summoning room/whatever of his evil McGuffin. Teleport him away and then break his toy while he is gone. Alternatively, laugh maniacally and conquer the world for yourselves.


also:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells---final/teleportation-circle

for 22500 it's even permanent.

I mean, it's a level 9 spell with a 10 minute casting time, material component and needing them to STEP on it, to get to a FIXED destination, but yep, it's without save...then again, you also get imprisonment on that level, which is instant and doesn't allow the guy to come back the next round if he fails that save-

still, there you go with how "hard" it's made to mess with teleporting, and imho, rightfully so.

Aside from the obvious military opportunities possibly with that spell :P

Oh, and, for extra fun regarding the baleful teleporting: consider using it with dazing spell, for extra fun! "Drown drown drown, in the scorching hot lavae-"...I'd post a level 1 bard there to mock them...


Looking at the core book, unless there has been errata for it, I see that Plane Shift (Clr 5, Sor/Wiz 7) has a Target of 'Creature Touched, or up to eight willing creatures joining hands'. So, in a sense, this already exists. It even offers a Will save :)


Evil Space Mantis wrote:

I think the "brokenness" of the ability comes down to one thing: Letting the caster of the spell pick the destination!

If you made Baleful Teleport just force the destination to be random and non-damaging it becomes much less abusable. Then this becomes useful and/or cool for a couple tactics, without being a Save or Die in most situations. I would also keep the range of the teleport quite short, probably 1d10 miles. I could even see a lower level version that was maybe 1d10 x 1000 feet. This is far enough away that the guy isn't right around the corner, but not so far that you won't be able to find him if you want. It also means NPCs can use it on PCs and the PC is back in the action in a few in game hours at most, so hopefully their player is back in the action within an encounter or two (assuming the rest of the party want to wait for him). Its also not always gonna be a great option for the bad guys. Sure, you zapped the PC away, but now he can come back with extra friends...

Awesome reasons to use it:

1. You are fighting an opponent that is significantly stronger in some kind of inner sanctum, and so forcing him out and then fighting him in some other terrain is useful.

2. You are faced with some kind of foe you cannot deal with at the moment, but could with some preparation. Buy yourselves some time.

3.Alternatively, force the marauding hellbeast out of the city/town/whatever and away from innocent bystanders so you can unload fiery death on him with impudence.

4. Its a non-lethal solution to a combat. Maybe someone wants you dead, but you don't want to risk injuring/killing them. This would work especially well against people you think are being dominated by some duration based spell or magic item. Basically a "go away and cool off" option. Also fun if you are in some kind of a race to recover some artifact with a group/individual that you may dislike, but could not really condone killing.

5. The BBEG is in the control chamber/summoning room/whatever of his evil...

I REALLY like this line of thinking!!

I also see a couple of uses for a teleport other spell that aren't "baleful."
1. You have a severely injured party member who is also held, stunned, or otherwise incapacitated, and he will surely die on the next round...BLIP! He's now in a safe place..
2. Someone in the party needs to be somewhere the wizard doesn't also need to be...BLIP! He's there and the wizard is free to continue what he was doing.

...as a complete aside...
I also liked the psionic ability teleport trace. I wish that were in spell form.


IIRC the 1e Fiend Folio had a monster with a teleport other without error effect named the Crypt Thing. Basically it just wanted adventurers to leave his crypt alone. It would teleport the party x number of miles to a safe location and go back to doing it's undead crypt thing stuff.

However, in effect we do have a baleful teleport effect in the form of Plane Shift (offensive use). Touch attack, will save, SR Yes exile someone to the Positive or Negative elemental plane (or similar nasty planar location) unless they have some method of planar attunement it's basically a death sentence.

The problem with a baleful teleport effect isn't just the teleport them for a 20d6 fall above ground, or into a 20d6 lava flow it's also teleporting them into a solid object, etc. In order to simulate this spell I think you'd need to have it be Touch Attack, Will Save, SR Yes with a random location within 5d100 miles of the current location. Make it a 6th level spell (it has less utility than Planar Shift) and it basically becomes yet another mid tier SoS spell. It won't really slow down most casters (they could presumably teleport back if they have a spell prepared) but it could be useful in exiling minions without teleport functionality.

RPG Superstar 2011 Top 8

The problem with a 5d100 mile range is what if the bad guys nail a PC fighter with this? Now you've got a PC stuck somewhere a good 200+ miles, in all likelyhood, from the rest of the party. And he doesn't even have a mount. Thats a LONG walk if he doesn't get lucky and find some way to move faster. And you don't know where he got zapped to, so its gonna take a scry and teleport to have your caster even go pick him up, spells that he might not have prepared on the day.

This is bad news for the pacing of the adventure, unless you want to slow everything down.

Baleful Teleport could easily be a 4th level spell, as it MUCH less of a death sentence than Plane Shift can be.


I think the transposition spells from 3.5 are a great place to start, relatively short range, line of sight needed but lots of fun playing chess master as the caster. They were probably some of my favorites in the spell compendium. I always felt like teleportation is under represented in the core rules, but I guess that is a matter of taste.


Evil Space Mantis wrote:

The problem with a 5d100 mile range is what if the bad guys nail a PC fighter with this? Now you've got a PC stuck somewhere a good 200+ miles, in all likelyhood, from the rest of the party. And he doesn't even have a mount. Thats a LONG walk if he doesn't get lucky and find some way to move faster. And you don't know where he got zapped to, so its gonna take a scry and teleport to have your caster even go pick him up, spells that he might not have prepared on the day.

This is bad news for the pacing of the adventure, unless you want to slow everything down.

Baleful Teleport could easily be a 4th level spell, as it MUCH less of a death sentence than Plane Shift can be.

True, you'd probably want a smaller effective range than the plane shift radius (which is generally meant to be a deterrent to planar exploration) and make it something that is more of an remove target creature from play kind of effect.

The problem is that Maze has a similar (but lesser) effect on play and it's an 8th level spell. Yes it's no save / SR Yes but it's not impossible to escape and even it's maximum duration is probably shorter than it would take a regular PC to return via running after a baleful teleport.

My heart wants to say that it should be lower level than plane shift (instant death sentence) and higher than regular teleport but the precedent of Maze is hard to ignore. Personally I'd remove Maze from the spell list and incorporate a limited radius baleful teleport as a 6th level spell.

Sovereign Court

A teleport other spell with a range touch could be very fun and useful if it:

doesn't allow the teleported creature to be teleported to a place that doesn't "support" it (into the bottom of a lake, 200' in the air, into a tree, etc.) and is of sufficiently short range that it won't interrupt the game too much if used against PCs. A medium range spell - 100' + 10' / CL would allow teleports from 170' (I'm assuming at LEAST a 4th level spell) to 300'. A fighter teleported 300' feet would take 5 rounds to get back to combat moving at mundane speeds. Requiring the caster to touch the fighter makes it a risky (emergency even!) proposition only - especially as the touched person may make the save. Requiring line of sight prevents a lot of abuses too.

Could be fun - and as a 4th or 5th level spell, not too powerful.

RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8

This is one of those things that looking at it from a story perspective, you think, "How come no one has ever researched this?"

From a balance perspective, all the problems people have mentioned come up. And it can be an adventure breaker (but that's not a reason why not to do it--it just makes it harder to do things).

I think it's doable, but you need to be able to put certain limitations on it.

I'd do it one of two ways (or even both):

1. Make Greater Teleport able to allow you to take unwilling targets WITH you. You still have to go too, but it would allow you to, say, pick your battlefield. It also puts you at enough risk that there would be payoffs--you'd have to touch the unwilling target, and if the spell fails, you'd be standing there in the bad guys lair poking him and he's like, "What?"

2. Make a Teleport Other (also level 7, since as mentioned Maze is level 8) spell, but restrictions on it:

- Must send to a place with which you are very familiar
- Wherever target arrives, target must "land" on solid ground and be able to stay there. (So you can't teleport the target over a lava pit, though you could teleport the target to a deserted island.)
- Cannot teleport within, say 200 feet of a hostile creature. So no sending into a dragon's mouth.
- How far away they can be sent should probably be more restricted than where you can teleport yourself. So you can't teleport someone halfway around the world.

Remember that these limitations would also keep a competitive GM from doing the "teleport into a lava pool" trick too.

The spell this way could also have useful non-combative uses--the feeble NPC wizard teleports the party directly to the place where he needs the spell components gathered, etc.

Players (and DMs) would have to be reminded that there would be consequences to an ill-planned "Teleport Other." Teleporting the petty bureaucrat to the entrance of the city is acceptable if perhaps slightly naughty; teleporting the Tarrasque to your hometown will not result in good marks on your "heroing record."


Well, for taking a PC out of combat you can simply cast Maze, teleporting someone away not only forces a PC to sit by and wait till his turn comes, but also adds the problem with PC being somewhere else and trying to do something. Result? Delays, delays, delays. If teleport, than whole party and random destination please. And if you want to whisk allies away from danger, than Teleport Other, which will work on willing targets.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

Doesn't plane shift already basically let you do that?


I think that it shouldn't allow random disposal of party members or creatures who are't willing. Although it could do that as the wording goes.


Ross Byers wrote:
Doesn't plane shift already basically let you do that?

It depends on whether you just want to dump someone off or take them to a very specific location. Teleport can allow you to dump them somewhere or make them into a prisoner.


An idea from another gaming system and some thinking, how about:

Lvln 9 spell (so no metamagic; important why -> see next point)

requires touching the creature while teleporting it - no metamagic to increase range cause of the spell level

so you can kidnap someone that way, get someone into prison, etc pp - but you cannot put someone easily into a volcano

One could use energy ressistance on himself etc pp to get the forced teleported person into deadly sorroundings - but there are far easier ways (and faster and requiring less preparations..) to kill in the game?


Mandor wrote:
Patrick Murphy wrote:

Level cap for damage or baleful distance teleported depending on the level of the teleportation spell. Hell just being able to use the spells against anyone would be an asset without directly doing damage!

Who says it has to be instant death? Why not just full or half damage depending on the save(as per level cap mentioned above.

The problem with Teleport Other isn't damage, but the situations you can put someone into. There is no way to modify the spell to prevent situations.

Just off the top of my head...
1. In Rappan Athuk, the cleric teleports the victim to Orcus on level 15. It will require a deity's intervention to raise the character.
2. Teleport victim to a Red Mantis assassin HQ. If the victim is raised, the Red Mantis will know it and send a team to kill the victim again.
3. Teleport victim to bedroom of the kingdom's Queen.
4. Teleport victim 1 foot above a permanent anti-magic field with all sorts of nastiness within it.

Key there is anywhere you know of ( it is up to the DM to determine just what that is going to be; many people assume their knowledge of the planet comsmology would be the same as their character - I don't think it has to be that way. )

I think it is a good thing to put your enemies into dangerous situations. Hell, the whole game is about dangerous situations. Some of your exmaples though, don't make alot of sense tactically.

For example, sure you could send an enemy into your dungeon, but consider: if he is weak and couldn't fight the guards of your dungeons or escape, chances are you should not of wasted such a powerful spell on the poor bugger. If he is powerful enough to escape, then why send him there?
Also, since we are not talking a save or die kind of spell, 4 miles underground would be a chamber or tunnel big enough to fit the character. Great if the enemy is someone that can't escape, but not a definate defeat of a big boss. Though it is a great way to buy time for the party.

also, as DM you want to make sure that you give your characters a fighting chance. The tactic of teleporting a PC to Orcus sounds to me to be above the Challenge rating of the encouter. Why not just allow a teleport into a trap of an appropriate level, or to a monster of an appropriate level?

anyway, you get the idea. The aggressive versions don't have to made extreme enough to be broken.

I realize this is not for everyone. That is completely o.k. in my book and you may as well be right.

In the meantime, I intend to try aggressive versions of these spells in my game ( with increased level, damage cap, saving throws, dimensional anchor safety-catch etc) when the time comes. I'll let you know if they worked out or were totally horrible.


Mandor wrote:
Patrick Murphy wrote:

Level cap for damage or baleful distance teleported depending on the level of the teleportation spell. Hell just being able to use the spells against anyone would be an asset without directly doing damage!

Who says it has to be instant death? Why not just full or half damage depending on the save(as per level cap mentioned above.

The problem with Teleport Other isn't damage, but the situations you can put someone into. There is no way to modify the spell to prevent situations.

Just off the top of my head...
1. In Rappan Athuk, the cleric teleports the victim to Orcus on level 15. It will require a deity's intervention to raise the character.
2. Teleport victim to a Red Mantis assassin HQ. If the victim is raised, the Red Mantis will know it and send a team to kill the victim again.
3. Teleport victim to bedroom of the kingdom's Queen.
4. Teleport victim 1 foot above a permanent anti-magic field with all sorts of nastiness within it.


Evil Space Mantis wrote:

The problem with a 5d100 mile range is what if the bad guys nail a PC fighter with this? Now you've got a PC stuck somewhere a good 200+ miles, in all likelyhood, from the rest of the party. And he doesn't even have a mount. Thats a LONG walk if he doesn't get lucky and find some way to move faster. And you don't know where he got zapped to, so its gonna take a scry and teleport to have your caster even go pick him up, spells that he might not have prepared on the day.

This is bad news for the pacing of the adventure, unless you want to
slow everything down.

Baleful Teleport could easily be a 4th level spell, as it MUCH less of a death sentence than Plane Shift can be.

Used in moderation, I see a PC flung far off as an awesome adventure. As a DM, I deal with PC's in separate actions/places often so it doesn't bother me. If it were done all the time, it would be just as annoying and no-fun as every enemy magic user using MM and FB on the party IMO. But as a memorable trap, enemy monster being able to cast teleportation spells this way, or for a character to go through the trials and tribulations to be able to cast spells this way, would be awesome.

So awesome in fact, that perhaps there are a whole race of inevitables waiting for mortals to violate the laws of translocation so that they can come and deal with them, thus giving their existences purpose.

heheh.

Dark Archive

If you think it won't be broken, just make your own spell.


BYC, done and done! I just have to wait for my players to get high enough level to make use of the spells for and against the party.


Dire Mongoose wrote:
...teleport as an offensive spell would ruin every encounter...

Honestly...it would just be the go-to for every combat. Set the Wizard up so they can teleport whatever enemy into the pre-determined spot of absolute death. I can't think of another spell that would so universally destroy every monster in the game. Please no.


I think if the spell always requires that the caster be transported along with the creature touched then it's not so bad. Any danger that the target gets put into, the caster also gets put into.

Sounds reasonable since Teleport Object is a 7th level spell that this would be a 7th or maybe 8th level one.

Teleport Other/Baleful Teleport/Teleport Enemy (whatever you want to call it)
School: Conjuration(teleportation); Level: sorcerer/wizard 7th
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V
Range: Touch
Target: Caster + creature(s) touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will(negates)

This functions as teleport except that unwilling targets must make a Will save to avoid being teleported.

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