My players and I are absolutely loving Kingmaker.
Based on the success of the Kingmaker AP, can we expect another "sandbox style" AP in the future?
I had hoped that there may be a pirate themed Kingmaker/sandbox in the future, but I have seen in another thread that there are no plans for any pirate APs.
I am hoping that we can see more sandbox style APs though (please).
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Carrion Crown is likely to be similar to Runelords and Crimson Throne in story heaviness (which is cool, because they were great APs).
The Jade Regent ("oriental" AP) is an epic journey (much of the game is supposed to revolve around escorting a caravan over the top of the world).
But the unknown one after that? Who knows. Kingmaker is proving a popular choice, and exploration is a very popular theme. (The great thing about Golarion is that there's a lot of places to explore).
But the unknown one after that? Who knows. Kingmaker is proving a popular choice, and exploration is a very popular theme. (The great thing about Golarion is that there's a lot of places to explore).
I'm not sure I'd want yet another exploration one. I saw a pirate suggestion above, and that sounds awesome.
(Aside: Why do people keep calling the possible Jade Regent AP an "oriental" AP? It's barely anything of the sort, from descriptions so far. The characters will be 'western', a good portion is just the travel getting there [not even in the oriental lands], and the oriental stuff doesn't occur until much later. I've even heard of Paizo wanting to release oriental rules at the same time, which sounds like a completely pointless endeavor, since characters will be western and wouldn't even be able to start as oriental characters [which is what I suspect the vast majority of players would want to do] - at best, they'd only get to bring in a higher-level one in an AP that's on its way to being done. A whole book for NPCs? I smell failure at least at the level of SD, if not more. Sounds like half the AP is a waste, IMO.)
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(Aside: Why do people keep calling the possible Jade Regent AP an "oriental" AP? It's barely anything of the sort, from descriptions so far. The characters will be 'western', a good portion is just the travel getting there [not even in the oriental lands], and the oriental stuff doesn't occur until much later. I've even heard of Paizo wanting to release oriental rules at the same time, which sounds like a completely pointless endeavor, since characters will be western and wouldn't even be able to start as oriental characters [which is what I suspect the vast majority of players would want to do] - at best, they'd only get to bring in a higher-level one in an AP that's on its way to being done. A whole book for NPCs? I smell failure at least at the level of SD, if not more. Sounds like half the AP is a waste, IMO.)
As I understood it about 2/3 of the AP would be in the oriental setting(1 in sandpoint area, 2 traveling over the tip of the world, 3-6 in Tan Xia). Thats 8-10 levels worth of oriental material that will need to be out; will much of it be for the NPCs at first? Sure, but once you kill said NPC, you get to loot it's stuff, and the magic oriental based item is no longer 'NPC only'. This also allows for the DMs to get a better understanding of the feeling/mechanics of play with the oriental options before the players are allowed to use them. Plus, just because it starts in Sandpoint, doesn't mean that you can't be from Tan Xia - Amieko is, so there's president.
The 'oriental material' getting put out the same time is mostly going to be in 'Ultimate Magic' and 'Ultimate Combat' as far as crunch goes, and that includes much more than just the oriental crunch....
Maybe they could Sandbox an exploration of Arcadia?
The Undiscovered Country AP
Meh. I find fantasy Native American analogues to be (a) not my cup of tea for a fantasy RPG and (b) vaguely unpalatable (in the sense that it's a fine line between cultural respect and caricature).
I dunno... I gotta agree with GE and Jason Nelson... an Arcadian Exploration AP would be awesome... "The Undiscovered Country" AP indeed.
If they did this one for the August AP release, maybe they could time it with a World Guide: Arcadia Campaign Setting book. (Down the road of course, it's not like I'm suggesting such a thing for next August).
But... that's just my two cents on the matter.
(As an aside... my twice-a-month Sunday group is also enjoying "Kingmaker")
Dean
Creative Director
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There's some significant sandbox elements at play in Serpent's Skull, actually, particularly in Pathfinder #37 and #39, and probably in #41 as well.
Neither Carrion Crown nor Jade Regent will be particularly sandboxy, but there's a good chance that what comes after Jade Regent will bel.
And while only half of the Jade Regent AP actually takes place in Tian Xia (in Minkai, to be precise), ALL of the Jade Reegent AP will be involved with a significant amount of Asian themes and elements. You can think of the 1st half as "Tian Xia stuff in the Inner Sea" and the 2nd half as "Inner Sea characters in Tian Xia" basically. There will be samurais as early as the first adventure, in other words. There'll very VERY likely even be something in play that accounts for PCs who want to start as Tien characters with levels of Asian style archetypes.
From the sounds of it, Jade Regent is aiming to be appealing to a pretty broad variety of interests. So long as there are options for Tien characters at the outset and options for people who want to play non-Tien types of characters as usual, it seems to have a lot of potential.
I've never felt any enthusiasm for Oriental flavored settings or games and I'm still looking forward to the AP.
Serpent's Skull definitely has a sandbox feel to it so far. Maybe not as wide-ranging as Kingmaker but there sure are a lot of options.
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with levels of Asian style archetypes.
*Releases a breath that's been held for months*
I've been concerned that certain forum posters who are fans of Samurai and Ninjas and so forth having their own seperate class would have their way. Glad to see that it appears as though they'll be handled as archetypes instead.
Regarding the OP, I'd look forward to any AP that at at least sandbox segments. Our group is only halfway through the second part of Kingmaker, but my Sorcerer Baron is having a LOT of fun with it, as is the rest of the group.
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There's some significant sandbox elements at play in Serpent's Skull, actually, particularly in Pathfinder #37 and #39, and probably in #41 as well.
Neither Carrion Crown nor Jade Regent will be particularly sandboxy, but there's a good chance that what comes after Jade Regent will bel.
Thanx for the hint on that AP, by the way. Can't wait. W00t!
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Creative Director
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with levels of Asian style archetypes.*Releases a breath that's been held for months*
I've been concerned that certain forum posters who are fans of Samurai and Ninjas and so forth having their own seperate class would have their way. Glad to see that it appears as though they'll be handled as archetypes instead.
Regarding the OP, I'd look forward to any AP that at at least sandbox segments. Our group is only halfway through the second part of Kingmaker, but my Sorcerer Baron is having a LOT of fun with it, as is the rest of the group.
We're still actually figuring out how things like samurai and ninjas will work, to be honest. At this point, I'm pretty sure they'll be handled in a way similar to how we handled the antipaladin—as a subclass, which is basically nothing more than an archetype for which we give the full level progression with all the class ability swap-outs plugged in for you. We might not have room, though, in which case we'll just do normal archetypes. I'm relatively sure we WON'T make these guys their own stand-alone base classes. Until we start going into really weirdo territory, we've got enough base classes for now once we have Ultimate Magic's magus in play.
Until?
Until we start going into really weirdo territory, we've got enough base classes for now once we have Ultimate Magic's magus in play.Weirdo territory?
You know like the Beguiler, the Favored Soul, the Wu Jen, etc. All of the "base" classes that appeared in the splat books. I think Paizo's stance is that instead of remaking these classes they will just either provide archtypes that will be similar or simply not do an update all together.
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Creative Director
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You know like the Beguiler, the Favored Soul, the Wu Jen, etc. All of the "base" classes that appeared in the splat books. I think Paizo's stance is that instead of remaking these classes they will just either provide archtypes that will be similar or simply not do an update all together.Until we start going into really weirdo territory, we've got enough base classes for now once we have Ultimate Magic's magus in play.Weirdo territory?
Actually... under Paizo's philosophy, some of those would NOT be base classes. The Wu Jen for sure; he's just a variant wizard. The oracle is basically our favored soul, but the beguiler is pretty much just a variant bard or sorcerer.
A GREAT example is the 3.5 ninja. It's basically a rogue, but the way it got designed in 3.5 was as a new class with a weird new variant on sneak attack that wasn't sneak attack. Under the Paizo Philiosophy, if a ninja's close enough to be a rogue that it should have some sort of sneak attack power... it'll just be a rogue with sneak attack. But with archetype or subclass level differences.
ANYway... this whole topic is WAY too early to really start talking about in much detail yet. So hold the questions for a few months and we'll get to answering then!
You know like the Beguiler, the Favored Soul, the Wu Jen, etc. All of the "base" classes that appeared in the splat books. I think Paizo's stance is that instead of remaking these classes they will just either provide archtypes that will be similar or simply not do an update all together.Until we start going into really weirdo territory, we've got enough base classes for now once we have Ultimate Magic's magus in play.Weirdo territory?Actually... under Paizo's philosophy, some of those would NOT be base classes. The Wu Jen for sure; he's just a variant wizard. The oracle is basically our favored soul, but the beguiler is pretty much just a variant bard or sorcerer.
A GREAT example is the 3.5 ninja. It's basically a rogue, but the way it got designed in 3.5 was as a new class with a weird new variant on sneak attack that wasn't sneak attack. Under the Paizo Philiosophy, if a ninja's close enough to be a rogue that it should have some sort of sneak attack power... it'll just be a rogue with sneak attack. But with archetype or subclass level differences.
ANYway... this whole topic is WAY too early to really start talking about in much detail yet. So hold the questions for a few months and we'll get to answering then!
That was kind of what I was saying. I'm not very good at making my point sometimes.
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Meh. I find fantasy Native American analogues to be (a) not my cup of tea for a fantasy RPG and (b) vaguely unpalatable (in the sense that it's a fine line between cultural respect and caricature).Maybe they could Sandbox an exploration of Arcadia?
The Undiscovered Country AP
Is that what it is?
I thought Arcadia was pretty much unrevealed, where does the Native American stuff come from?
Also, point (b) made me chuckle a bit. Every RPG seems to slide into caricature pretty quickly. I remember when they stuck Blodeuwedd in the bestiary with a reference to prairies! Hilarious.
Meh. I find fantasy Native American analogues to be (a) not my cup of tea for a fantasy RPG and (b) vaguely unpalatable (in the sense that it's a fine line between cultural respect and caricature).Is that what it is?
I thought Arcadia was pretty much unrevealed, where does the Native American stuff come from?
Maybe I'm reading too much into the campaign setting's description of Vikings (they actually use that word) discovering a land of "vast natural resources, gorgeous panoramic displays of unbridled nature, and fierce native inhabitants" that they call skraelings (illustrated by a picture of a fellow in a loincloth and warpaint) who attack with "hails of arrows and hurled tomahawks".
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Creative Director
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Maybe I'm reading too much into the campaign setting's description of Vikings (they actually use that word) discovering a land of "vast natural resources, gorgeous panoramic displays of unbridled nature, and fierce native inhabitants" that they call skraelings (illustrated by a picture of a fellow in a loincloth and warpaint) who attack with "hails of arrows and hurled tomahawks".Meh. I find fantasy Native American analogues to be (a) not my cup of tea for a fantasy RPG and (b) vaguely unpalatable (in the sense that it's a fine line between cultural respect and caricature).Is that what it is?
I thought Arcadia was pretty much unrevealed, where does the Native American stuff come from?
That's also a VERY short description. And since we only had a few sentences to summarize... that's when stereotypes actually come in quite handy.
There WILL be some Native American (north, south, and central America) elements in Arcadia, but there's other stuff going on there too. It's going to be quite some time before we say much more about Arcadia, thoguh.
There WILL be some Native American (north, south, and central America) elements in Arcadia, but there's other stuff going on there too. It's going to be quite some time before we say much more about Arcadia, thoguh.
That'd be great -- I'd love to see setting elements that allowed the PCs to play as either the colonizers of a new world or the less technologically advanced defenders of said new world (or maybe a bit of both banding together against something even worse).
I quite like the idea of going to a "New World" (that's still on the same planet) that no one knows anything about. Heavy duty exploration!
I'd love to see some Arcadian/New World AP and supplemental stuff (being part native american, I know there's a LOT of untapped folklore that could make for some rich gaming), but I would also love to see a "Lost Worlds Romance" AP in the vein of Edgar Rice Burroughs' Mars books - the other planets in Galoron's solar system look perfect for that kind of adventure.
I keep hoping for part of an AP to take place on Akiton and/or Castrovel. Mostly Akiton, and mostly when Disney's John Carter of Mars comes out, to (hopefully) benefit from the interest in that type of setting the movie should generate.
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Maybe I'm reading too much into the campaign setting's description of Vikings (they actually use that word) discovering a land of "vast natural resources, gorgeous panoramic displays of unbridled nature, and fierce native inhabitants" that they call skraelings (illustrated by a picture of a fellow in a loincloth and warpaint) who attack with "hails of arrows and hurled tomahawks".Meh. I find fantasy Native American analogues to be (a) not my cup of tea for a fantasy RPG and (b) vaguely unpalatable (in the sense that it's a fine line between cultural respect and caricature).Is that what it is?
I thought Arcadia was pretty much unrevealed, where does the Native American stuff come from?
Fair enough, I missed a pretty immense clue there.
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Not to derrail the thread but I for one will be glad to see exotic classes not as standard classes alternative features but as their own class, aside of being incredible eurocentric making all the class of diferent cultures depending of the western flavoured classes(if there is a cavalier class why isnt a samurai one, both are not interchangeable, not to speak of wizards, based on the reinasence idea of magic, or ninjas as a rogue), it helps to me the exotic feel of a class, well them being, exotic, in mechanics too. How lame is having a exotic class wich is just, IDENTICAL, to the base ones with some tweaks.
Other thing I dont get is way some people bother that in someplace, somewhere is a person playing a class they dont aprove, if a class appear that you dont like, be it psionics, Bo9S, or ninjas or shugenja dont play it but many people can like it.
By the way I would like in fact them as different classes.
I quite like the idea of going to a "New World" (that's still on the same planet) that no one knows anything about. Heavy duty exploration!
Another one of the things I wasn't fond of with the "expanded" cut and paste real world areas of the Forgotten Realms that showed up in 2nd edition was that Maztica got invaded by Faerun natives and if not for the gods going ballistic, the "poor backwards" natives would gotten even worse treatment by the Helmites-that-didn't-act-like-Helmites-but-set-the-standard-for-future-Helm ites. I really want to see a culture that gets the full fantasy treatment. They shouldn't have "lesser" magic, they should have full blown sorcerers and paladins and anti-paladins and rangers and magic weapons that overcome the materials they are built from and . . .
Well, you get the idea. I'd rather see a fantasy culture flavored like native Americans than renamed native Americans that are given the bare minimum of fantasy treatment.
Psionics, Epic Rules, Steampunk, whatever takes the game drastically into something that would basically require new classes.Until we start going into really weirdo territory, we've got enough base classes for now once we have Ultimate Magic's magus in play.Weirdo territory?
Steampunk on the outer planes. Comeon you know you want to, what could possibly go wrong. . .
I heartily endorse another sandboxian AP! How about an AP focused entirely around the crew of a ship? Bring on the sinbad/firefly/pirates of the carribean feel of an open-ended location-based adventure, exploration, and trade AP!!
+5 Vorpal!
Steampunk on the outer planes. Comeon you know you want to, what could possibly go wrong. . .Psionics, Epic Rules, Steampunk, whatever takes the game drastically into something that would basically require new classes.Until we start going into really weirdo territory, we've got enough base classes for now once we have Ultimate Magic's magus in play.Weirdo territory?
The Lady of Pain points her gyroscopic pistol at you, and looks almost sad as she pulls the trigger...