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So, one of my players is wanting to play a Unicorn and with additional levels in a spellcaster class. Any one know rules on such things? ie..somatic components and such having hooves.
I'm gonna start right off and say "nuh-uh".
Any of the d20 systems are going to be hard to fit a PC Unicorn into whether you go with 3.5 or Pathfinder. The main reason is that the various flora and fauna that populate a given campaign world in the d20 OGL sytems are each mechanically built on something of a chasis.
It makes cross polination very difficult when you begin to have Magical Beasts mingling with character classes in an adventuring party construct. You might be able to build it...but it's not going to be a picnic and the balance between players is going to be very "unique."
Much easier to have a druid that will eventually be able to transform into a unicorn with a flick of the wrist.
Don't get me wrong I am a believer in concept before rules and have allowed some pretty custom stuff in my life but there always needs to be a logical limit with any game system. If you are inclined to find a way to play this concept one day I would suggest some of the more cinematic game systems as they support the more exotic concepts and ideas because there is less focus on emulation and balance than there is on things looking cool. For a new shiney example look into the Cortex Plus system unveiled at Gen Con via Smallville the Role Playing Game...seriously stop laughing it's a f---ing awesome system that could be ported to any setting. All you need is a book cover to hide your shame at buying a Smallville rpg.
If ur looking for playing an animal, look up Noble Wild (can't link cause I'm on my phone). Its a pathfinder compatable product which gives rules for playing animals as player characters. I bought it and its actually good, better for gms than players but still good. If anyone can link it to him that'd be awesome.
So, one of my players is wanting to play a Unicorn and with additional levels in a spellcaster class. Any one know rules on such things? ie..somatic components and such having hooves.
You need human-like hands in order to provide somatic components, which will be a problem for a creature like a unicorn.
I would highly recommend the Still Spell metamagic feat.
THE FOLLOWING RULES ARE ABOUT AS OFFICIAL AS YOU GET:
A unicorn character may begin play in a normal group of 3rd-level characters. Said unicorn character would have 4 racial levels in magical beast and no class levels. When the party gains a level (making them 4th) the unicorn character would gain one new class level as well. The next time the party gains a level (making them 5th) the unicorn character gains TWO class levels (4 HD/4 class levels) in order to make up for the fact that racial levels tend to be weaker than class levels. From that point forward, everyone gains levels on a 1 for 1 basis until 20th level. Your friend will forever be two class levels behind his more traditional party mates.
The progression would look something like this:
Racial HD/Class Levels; Normal Party Members Class Levels
-------; 01
-------; 02
04/00; 03
04/01; 04
04/02; 05
04/04; 06
04/05; 07
04/06; 08
04/07; 09
04/08; 10
04/09; 11
04/10; 12
04/11; 13
04/12; 14
04/13; 15
04/14; 16
04/15; 17
04/16; 18
04/17; 19
04/18; 20
The unicorn's racial traits will look something like this:
- +8 Strength, +6 Dexterity, +6 Constitution, +10 Wisdom, and +14 Charisma.
- Racial Skill Modifiers +3 Survival in forests, +4 Stealth.
- Size Large.
- Speed 60 ft.
- +3 natural armor bonus to AC.
- Has darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, and scent.
- Has gore (1d8) as a primary natural attack and 2 hooves (1d3) as secondary natural attacks.
- Possesses immunity to charms, compulsions, and poison.
- Gains the Magic Circle Against Evil Aura, Powerful Charge, Spell-like Abilities, Magical Strike, and Wild Empathy racial abilities.
- Languages Common and Sylvan. Bonus languages: None.
You would also get all the benefits of having 4 "levels" of Magical Beast such as general feats, hit points, base saves, base attack, skill ranks, etc. Treat the combination of racial hit dice and class levels just as you would multiclassing between two classes.
All in all, your friend's unicorn spellcaster is going to be 3 or 4 caster levels behind the curve (effectively 4 or 5 if you don't find anything better than still spell) with the only thing really making up for it are his high ability scores and other base stats. Not worth it if you ask me.
Still, I hope that helps you guys out.
If ur looking for playing an animal, look up Noble Wild (can't link cause I'm on my phone) ... If anyone can link it to him that'd be awesome.
Linked:
Noble Wild
Much easier to have a druid that will eventually be able to transform into a unicorn with a flick of the wrist.
Pathfinder Druids cannot take the form/shape of Magical Beasts, assuming that's the system you're using. 3.5E Druids could I believe, I don't know about 4E.
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My first thought... restrict the Unicorn to a 'spontaneous' caster (sorcerer/bard/oracle/favored soul). Unless you don't mind the sillyness that is Mr. Ed wearing spectacles while reading his spellbook and manipulating wands with his mouth.
Also... Sorcerer comes with Eschew Materials, to cover material components, but you could always give them Natural Spell(see below) or make it a mandatory feat they take. It's originally for a Druid while in wildshape, but I think it's applicable in this situation.
Natural Spell (PFCORE pg. 131)
You can cast spells even while in a form that cannot normally cast spells.
Prerequisites: Wis 13, wild shape class feature.
Benefit: You can complete the verbal and somatic components of spells while using wild shape. You substitute various noises and gestures for the normal verbal and somatic components of a spell. You can also use any material components or focuses you possess, even if such items are melded within your current form. This feat does not permit the use of magic items while you are in a form that could not ordinarily use them, and you do not gain the ability to speak while using wild shape.
the only way you'll be able to do it that won't break your game is to choose a class that will allow the unicorn to polymorph into a humanoid similair to how some dragons can take human form.
You could even have the unicorn cursed into humanoid form and it can only return to its previous form using powerful polymorph magic ala beast shape 4.
Heh ever watch "The Last Unicorn" 1982 ? wizard turns unicorn into human to hide her from an evil king but in doing so lets her experence human emotions that unicorns were never meant to experence.
So yeah there is more than one way you can let a player play a unicorn without acutally playing a unicorn as written
Wild unicorns manage to use their spell like abilities without taking feats like natural spell or using still spell on everything. A unicorn PC should be able to manage as well by stomping their hooves around, prancing in place, and gesturing with their horn or something.
Worse comes to worse just use natural spell. If a druid who's spent a week in and out of bear form (seriously, how often does it take in game to go from 4th to 5th level?) can learn how to growl his spells a unicorn with a lifetime of experience as a unicorn should be able to manage the same.
Most any polymorph effect given by a class ability won't last long enough to be viable (excluding wildshape, which doesn't grant humanoid forms anyways).
The best I could find is a sorcerer with 38+ Charisma who spends all their 9th-level spell slots on shapechange every single day.
Wild unicorns manage to use their spell like abilities without taking feats like natural spell or using still spell on everything. A unicorn PC should be able to manage as well by stomping their hooves around, prancing in place, and gesturing with their horn or something.
Worse comes to worse just use natural spell. If a druid who's spent a week in and out of bear form (seriously, how often does it take in game to go from 4th to 5th level?) can learn how to growl his spells a unicorn with a lifetime of experience as a unicorn should be able to manage the same.
I don't believe either of these ideas would work according to RAW.
Spell-like abilities =/= spells where components are concerned. Furthermore, Nautral Spell only works with wildshape, which this is not.
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Wild unicorns manage to use their spell like abilities without taking feats like natural spell or using still spell on everything. A unicorn PC should be able to manage as well by stomping their hooves around, prancing in place, and gesturing with their horn or something.
Worse comes to worse just use natural spell. If a druid who's spent a week in and out of bear form (seriously, how often does it take in game to go from 4th to 5th level?) can learn how to growl his spells a unicorn with a lifetime of experience as a unicorn should be able to manage the same.
I don't believe either of these ideas would work according to RAW.
Spell-like abilities =/= spells where components are concerned. Furthermore, Nautral Spell only works with wildshape, which this is not.
actually a unicorn could take levels of druid and take Natural Spell, and then it gets really weird, since it could cast spells while wildshaped into any other animal form, but not in its normal form. so if it became a horse it could cast but being a horse with a tumor (unicorn) it couldnt. Or it could become a bear, dolphin, or anything else for that matter and still cast but not at all in its normal form which is basically the same...
Wild unicorns manage to use their spell like abilities without taking feats like natural spell or using still spell on everything. A unicorn PC should be able to manage as well by stomping their hooves around, prancing in place, and gesturing with their horn or something.
not quite. Spell like abilities dont require the verbal or somatic components, even if they replicate spell that do.
Savage Species, page 39, Surrogate Spellcasting.
Wis 13, nonhumanoid or nonhumanlike form
Can substitue verbal and somatic components for whatever form you are (in your case, unicorn neighs and hoof thrusting/stomping)
Problem solved.
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Savage Species, page 39, Surrogate Spellcasting.
Wis 13, nonhumanoid or nonhumanlike form
Can substitue verbal and somatic components for whatever form you are (in your case, unicorn neighs and hoof thrusting/stomping)Problem solved.
If you can talk a DM into letting you use Savage species which is 3.0. BUt then you might as well just take the feral template in all its brokenness (+1 la my at-dollar sign-dollar sign)
I don't believe either of these ideas would work according to RAW.
It might not be raw but its sensible and not game breaking. If anythings going to break the game its the massive stat increases the unicorn gets.
Spell-like abilities =/= spells where components are concerned. Furthermore, Nautral Spell only works with wildshape, which this is not.
Right, because the ability to cast spells when you turn yourself into a horse and the ability to cast spells when you've been a horse all your life is that.. the first one is easier?
To the original poster, What level is this campaign?
Racial HD/Class Levels; Normal Party Members Class Levels
I believe you need to place some +Ecl in there for the unicorns abilities and especially their stats.
I don't believe either of these ideas would work according to RAW. Spell-like abilities =/= spells where components are concerned. Furthermore, Nautral Spell only works with wildshape, which this is not.
Someone is playing a unicorn, I'm fairly certain RAW does not apply.
Though that does then make me wonder why the initial question got asked, you've already allowed unicorn as a race, maybe just let him cast the spells?
Someone is playing a unicorn, I'm fairly certain RAW does not apply.
It most certainly does. The rules for playing a monstrous character appear on page 314 of the Bestiary. Being in the Bestiary, it is generally up to the GM to allow/disallow/modify the rules as he sees fit, but that doesn't change the fact that they are there and thus count as the RAW.
Furthermore, I've spoken with the game designers on a number of occasions about how monstrous PCs are meant to work, so there is no error of intent in my post either.
You could argue about balance if you want since a unicorn may not be balanced at the levels I've posted, but my post strictly follows both the RAI and the RAW.
I believe you need to place some +Ecl in there for the unicorns abilities and especially their stats.
ECL is a fine example of a broken mechanic that, thankfully, no longer exists in Pathfinder (and most certainly isn't RAW).
Furthermore, I don't see why everyone is getting on the OP about his friend wanting to play a unicorn. The higher base stats and the ability score modifiers are great, but considering he is playing a spellcaster, it hardly makes up for everything he will lose (at least 2 levels of spells).
You guys are missing The Most Important Rule
The rules in this book are here to help you breathe life into
your characters and the world they explore. While they are
designed to make your game easy and exciting, you might
find that some of them do not suit the style of play that your
gaming group enjoys. Remember that these rules are yours.
You can change them to fit your needs.
So some work needs to be added to allow for a Unicorn PC, but I think the Surrogate Spellcasting feat would work, mayhaps you could replace Wis with Int for that one. Remember, the most important thing are that the players are having fun.
Most any polymorph effect given by a class ability won't last long enough to be viable (excluding wildshape, which doesn't grant humanoid forms anyways).
The best I could find is a sorcerer with 38+ Charisma who spends all their 9th-level spell slots on shapechange every single day.
How bout a single use of Polymorph any Object ;)
It may take a bit of work, but I'm firmly in the camp of allowing the character to play a unicorn. I don't have access to the Noble Wild, but nothing is impossible at all.
Work it until it feels right, and then let it go. The attribute bonuses they get are all fine and dandy in the wild, but the second the PCs set foot in town, it'll be an awkward thing for the Unicorn, especially if they have some of the stigma that unicorns have in this day and age..
No entering buildings, gets put in a paddock with the rest of the horses, and so on...
No entering buildings, gets put in a paddock with the rest of the horses, and so on...why would the unicorn put up with that nonsense? They speak 2 languages, are as smart as the average person, twice as wise, and has a high enough cha to try and diplomacy/bluff/intimidate to get its way
They likely would not care for being 'stabled', though where else is a unicorn going to go to rest? Sleeping outdoors unattended without watch is dangerous for normal characters.
'No entering buildings' is something that plagues most large PCs, monstrous or otherwise, in a world built for medium humanoids.
Uhm,
Excuse me. Maybe I'm just being dense, but... why would he need any special feats to handle the somatic portions of spells? I agree he should be a spontaneous spell caster, since reading spell books is hard without hands.
However, somatic gestures are just that, gestures. Things you can do. An NPC yuan-ti sorcerer with four arms can make his gestures with any hands, not just his main two, he doesn't need a feat for it.
What it comes down to is, you have to make your gestures in your natural form, and can do so naturally. The reason the druid can't do it in wildshape without a feat is the form is not his natural form. There's no requirement for a polymorphed sorcrerer/wizard/druid etc to have the feat when he's polymorphed into a humanoid creature, because that's his natural form.
An NPC unicorn with sorcerer levels would make his gestures with his horn, his head, a hoof pawing the ground, his tail swishing in a specific motion, etc. These are all natural movements for him, and it's how he managed to learn to be a sorcerer, in his natural form. The same would apply to a PC unicorn.
Now, if said unicorn was polymorphed into a human form, he wouldn't be able to cast spells without a feat similar to Natural Spell, because he's not in his natural form, and he doesn't know how to make the mystical gestures work without his horn and hoof and tail (what are these stupid finger things, how can you make proper motions with those things?).
Someone is playing a unicorn, I'm fairly certain RAW does not apply.It most certainly does. The rules for playing a monstrous character appear on page 314 of the Bestiary. Being in the Bestiary, it is generally up to the GM to allow/disallow/modify the rules as he sees fit, but that doesn't change the fact that they are there and thus count as the RAW.
Furthermore, I've spoken with the game designers on a number of occasions about how monstrous PCs are meant to work, so there is no error of intent in my post either.
You could argue about balance if you want since a unicorn may not be balanced at the levels I've posted, but my post strictly follows both the RAI and the RAW.
RAW or otherwise, my point was it's not a 'normal' race selection and if you're going as far as to allow something you already have to 'manipulate' (also see: rig, house rule, duct tape, modify) into existance, just let the guy cast the freaking spells.
The quick and dirty answer was to then 'modify' a feat that already exists in the core book. "As monster characters progress, GMs should closely monitor whether such characters are disruptive or abusive to the rules and modify them as needed to improve play." (Bestiary pg. 314)
BTW 'the game designers' have also stated on numerous occasions that they would not support and do not recommend the use of monstrous races as PCs. "Monsters are not designed with the rules for players in mind, and as such can be very unbalancing if not handled carefully." (Bestiary pg.313) Perhaps 'the game designers' say different things when spoken to. *shrug*
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I play a black unicorn in Kingmaker. Hmmm where to start...
I personally just cast spells as normal like mdt says without a feat.
While being smart and charismatic, I don't get to enter buildings often, I usually just watch and listen at windows. But that's by choice. I like to keep things on the down low. I disguise myself as a normal horse and don't talk to strangers much. I relay stuff through another PC most of the time. Remember that horn is worth a fortune, subtle is good. Well until mid level anyway when you can easily defend yourself from any fool who wants to bother you.
What else? Uh charge feats are your friend but that's fairly obvious. I've got ride by attack and spirited charge. I hit like a freight train.
Oh and Noble Wild is terrible. I have a copy here in front of me. The fluff is ok but the mechanics are atrocious. You will never get me to take anything where you gain permanent negative levels.
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@mdt: +1
I'd allow them to be clerics, inquisitors, and druids, because all you need to do for spells then is pray.
Witches work too, because all you need to do for your spells is "talk" with your familiar.
I draw the line at a few classes though: Alchemist(how are you mixing stuff/throwing bombs/drinking mutegens?), Wizards(cant's turn the pages), and Cavalier(it's just wrong, like centaurs with 1 rank in ride so they can get Mounted Combat...)
So, one of my players is wanting to play a Unicorn and with additional levels in a spellcaster class. Any one know rules on such things? ie..somatic components and such having hooves.
Going by core rules only RAW:
Somatic (S): A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component.
As unicorns don't have hands, I would say that they cannot cast spells with somatic components.
Material components would also be a problem, but is more easily handled with Eschew Materials, though that would still make the unicorn unable to cast spells that require use of material components that cost money (though I might make exceptions for certain healing spells, since Unicorn horns are themselves components for such spells).
On the other hand or additional to:
A unicorn's horn is the focus for its powers, and in order to use its spell-like abilities on other creatures the unicorn must touch them with it.
It would be YOUR call, but you could work with this a few different ways (I would use one of the following, not all three):
-- rule that the Unicorn could waggle his horn for "somatic" components as it already focuses much of its magic through -- which means being pinned/grappled would still keep it from being able to cast spells, and I would allow its horn to be sunderable.
-- Rule that touch spells work even if they have somatic components so long as the unicorn successfully makes the touch attack.
-- Say that focusing magic through its horn substitutes for somatic components, but it requires a longer casting time (most standard action castings become full-action castings).
Or anything else you think of.
Ultimately, it's your call.
And remember, as noted, that as it starts as a CR 3 creature it should not start taking any class levels until the party is 4th or maybe even 5th level.
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Going by core rules only RAW:
Somatic (S): A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component.As unicorns don't have hands, I would say that they cannot cast spells with somatic components.
Isn't that in a book that doesn't a have a single race without hands in it? ;)
Perhaps you could give the Unicorn the Still Spell feat if things can't be settled here.
Someone is playing a unicorn, I'm fairly certain RAW does not apply.It most certainly does. The rules for playing a monstrous character appear on page 314 of the Bestiary. Being in the Bestiary, it is generally up to the GM to allow/disallow/modify the rules as he sees fit, but that doesn't change the fact that they are there and thus count as the RAW.
Furthermore, I've spoken with the game designers on a number of occasions about how monstrous PCs are meant to work, so there is no error of intent in my post either.
You could argue about balance if you want since a unicorn may not be balanced at the levels I've posted, but my post strictly follows both the RAI and the RAW.
RAW or otherwise, my point was it's not a 'normal' race selection and if you're going as far as to allow something you already have to 'manipulate' (also see: rig, house rule, duct tape, modify) into existance, just let the guy cast the freaking spells.
The quick and dirty answer was to then 'modify' a feat that already exists in the core book. "As monster characters progress, GMs should closely monitor whether such characters are disruptive or abusive to the rules and modify them as needed to improve play." (Bestiary pg. 314)
BTW 'the game designers' have also stated on numerous occasions that they would not support and do not recommend the use of monstrous races as PCs. "Monsters are not designed with the rules for players in mind, and as such can be very unbalancing if not handled carefully." (Bestiary pg.313) Perhaps 'the game designers' say different things when spoken to. *shrug*
No you are exactly right. It sounded to me like you were saying that the rules I were quoting were not RAW/RAI.
As for what the game designers said/didn't say, they did in fact state that they wouldn't be printing more support for monstrous characters in any new books (outside of the guidelines they've already written at least). When I spoke to them about it, they offered a few clarifications, such as determining ability score modifiers and other racial traits simply be looking at a monster statblock. At the time they never said anything about whether playing a monstrous character was a good idea or not BECAUSE THEY SUPPORT EVERYONE'S PLAYSTYLE.
Uh charge feats are your friend but that's fairly obvious. I've got ride by attack and spirited charge. I hit like a freight train.
You must have a GM generous with his house rules 'cause, RAW, that wouldn't work. You have to be mounted to use those feats. Being a quadruped =/= being mounted.
Still, I agree with your assessment that charge feats and abilities would work well with a unicorn since they already have a high speed, a good natural attack and strength score, and powerful charge.
Going by core rules only RAW:
Somatic (S): A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component.As unicorns don't have hands, I would say that they cannot cast spells with somatic components.Isn't that in a book that doesn't a have a single race without hands in it? ;)
Perhaps you could give the Unicorn the Still Spell feat if things can't be settled here.
Yes. I'm just citing the rules as a starting point.
As I also suggested to the OP a number of ways to get around that, I don't really get why that should be a bone of contention.
For Pete's sake, why do I try to help people here when people just take stuff I say out of context and ignore the parts where I'm trying to be helpful? Never mind. I never said anything. I'm sorry for trying to be helpful, I will never ever do it here again, there's no f!#@ing point. And YES, I saw the winky face. It doesn't help.
Going by core rules only RAW:
Somatic (S): A somatic component is a measured and precise movement of the hand. You must have at least one hand free to provide a somatic component.As unicorns don't have hands, I would say that they cannot cast spells with somatic components.Isn't that in a book that doesn't a have a single race without hands in it? ;)
Perhaps you could give the Unicorn the Still Spell feat if things can't be settled here.
The problem being that Still Spell increases the spell levels of spells. That's kind of a major penalty, even orisons with somatics would cost spell slots.
The book is written from the perspective of core races, of course it refers to hands. However, ruling that you have to have a hand if your species doesn't normally do so throws huge monkeywrenches into all sorts of things, like whether dragons count as having hands or clawed paws, or if magical beasts with sorcerer ability can't cast spells without two feats. I think that's a can of worms that wasn't intended by the rules. I think the rules apply as 'You must be capable of making gestures in the manner of your species'. For humanoids, that's free hand. For a unicorn, an ungrappled horn, for a dragon it's his clawed pawhand. A tentacled horror would probably use it's tentacle tips.
Me thinks this discussion would be best carried out in the propper forum (House Rules Homebrew) rather than the Rules Questions. I think the initial OP was fine, and yes pages 313-314 of the Beastiary are platforms from which we could launch a twenty page debate about RAW vs RAI.
However, this has really more or less spiraled into arguing about GM interpretations and house ruling for monstrous races. Dragons have claws and Unicorns have hoofs and an Aboleth has...aboleth parts. They can cast spells because they are MONSTERS.
Arguing about the manual dexterity of unicorn hoofs and horns is rather silly because they were not intended by the rules to be played as PC's. Which makes the most recent discussion here fall under "if you want it then design and build it" and in no way belittles anyone's desire to play a monsterous PC...it's just not what the game was centered around for RAI.
I think the rules apply as 'You must be capable of making gestures in the manner of your species'. For humanoids, that's free hand. For a unicorn, an ungrappled horn, for a dragon it's his clawed pawhand. A tentacled horror would probably use it's tentacle tips.
This!
Arguing about the manual dexterity of unicorn hoofs and horns is rather silly because they were not intended by the rules to be played as PC's. Which makes the most recent discussion here fall under "if you want it then design and build it" and in no way belittles anyone's desire to play a monsterous PC...it's just not what the game was centered around for RAI.
AND This!
For some guy's named Pete sake, why do I try to bring a lighter attitude to a thread only to get shoot down like a certain androgynous wizard's familiar flying over a bandit camp?
*adds another smiley face*
LOL
Sorry, was in lecture mode. :) Been a very long week.
Me thinks this discussion would be best carried out in the propper forum (House Rules Homebrew) rather than the Rules Questions. I think the initial OP was fine, and yes pages 313-314 of the Beastiary are platforms from which we could launch a twenty page debate about RAW vs RAI.
However, this has really more or less spiraled into arguing about GM interpretations and house ruling for monstrous races. Dragons have claws and Unicorns have hoofs and an Aboleth has...aboleth parts. They can cast spells because they are MONSTERS.
Arguing about the manual dexterity of unicorn hoofs and horns is rather silly because they were not intended by the rules to be played as PC's. Which makes the most recent discussion here fall under "if you want it then design and build it" and in no way belittles anyone's desire to play a monsterous PC...it's just not what the game was centered around for RAI.
I disagree. This is 100% as pertinent to GMs and NPCs they may use as either allies or enemies. So it's still a rules question.
If you can talk a DM into letting you use Savage species which is 3.0. BUt then you might as well just take the feral template in all its brokenness (+1 la my at-dollar sign-dollar sign)Savage Species, page 39, Surrogate Spellcasting.
Wis 13, nonhumanoid or nonhumanlike form
Can substitue verbal and somatic components for whatever form you are (in your case, unicorn neighs and hoof thrusting/stomping)Problem solved.
I don't understand why anyone would not allow a 3.0 feat to be used in 3.5 if the feat in question works just fine in a 3.5e game without any tweaking at all, which the Surrogate Spellcasting feat clearly is. It's the same edition, after all.
Also Savage Species is technically 3.5e. It was released a couple of months prior to 3.5e release and the designers specifically said that it was definitely geared with 3.5e statistics in mind, but hadn't fully made the transition in a few areas to avoid confusion.
To the OP, see if your DM will let you take Surrogate Spellcasting. It's the feat you're looking for, easy requirements for a unicorn also, and can be taken at 1st level.
So, one of my players is wanting to play a Unicorn and with additional levels in a spellcaster class. Any one know rules on such things? ie..somatic components and such having hooves.
First i would try talking the player out of it. I would point out that with out hands he will be forever dependent of those with hand to do anything that requires hands. I would point out that the large size will be a problem in enclosed location like dungeons. I will also point out that most people will alway notice him were ever he goes, and that his horn will be wanted by many evil and neutral NPC's.
Ok first let me say, this is not by the RAW of pathfinder, but this is how i would let the player do it in my game.
1st = Roll for normal abiliys scores. Then give +2 cha +2 wis, -2 int.
2nd = Race Abiliyts =
+2 vs Charm, Compulsion, & Poison.
Speed = 40.
Size = Large with more ability modifiers +2 str, +2 con, -2 dex.
Attacks = by Gore 1d8 or 2 hooves 1d3/1d3 or by spell.
Darkvision 60feet.
Low-light vision.
Scent ability.
Magic Horn = The unicorns horn, can act as a Divine Focus for divine spells, regardless of cost.
3rd = Pick alignment, and class. ((Wizard would be out since he needs hands for a book.)), I could see Bards, cleric, druid, paladins, rangers, and sorcerer as possible magic caster classes. Unicorn could also choose barbarian, Fighters, Monks (hooves could be used instead of hand, but with monk listed damage), and Rogues.
Notes = Unicorns can speak, so this takes care Verbal. Unicorns can draw shapes in the air with there horn, so would let this take care of Somatic. Would require the player to take the eschew material feat as his first feat if he wants to use material components (ex sorcerer).
Components not covered by this feat, would have to be role-played out by the player, with GM deciding if they work (( example, another player spend his turn helping out the unicorn, by laying out the silver in a circle or holding the pot made of jade.))
Note = Character start out as a 1st level character. Can not use any skill that requires hands. Does not get any other ability listed in the bestiary. Does not have any racial HD ((I never us racial HD for anything in my game)).
Anyway how i would do it, NOT BY RAW, to let a player play a unicorn, if i could not talk him out of it.
Relative to this thread, Can you still derive non-pc's stat modifiers from their attribute scores-- taking their listed scores as the average of the race as a whole, thus allowing the class to be played as a PC with the appropriate modifiers?
Well, in regards to stats, at least.
Relative to this thread, Can you still derive non-pc's stat modifiers from their attribute scores-- taking their listed scores as the average of the race as a whole, thus allowing the class to be played as a PC with the appropriate modifiers?
Well, in regards to stats, at least.
That's my understanding of how it works. You subtract 10 or 11 (10 if even, 11 if odd) and that's the stat mods. Then roll/purchase stats and apply modifiers.
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That's my understanding of how it works. You subtract 10 or 11 (10 if even, 11 if odd) and that's the stat mods. Then roll/purchase stats and apply modifiers.Relative to this thread, Can you still derive non-pc's stat modifiers from their attribute scores-- taking their listed scores as the average of the race as a whole, thus allowing the class to be played as a PC with the appropriate modifiers?
Well, in regards to stats, at least.
thats how it used to be, but didnt pf change it to use base stat and assign +4/+4/+2/+2/+0/-2 where you want?
thats how it used to be, but didnt pf change it to use base stat and assign +4/+4/+2/+2/+0/-2 where you want?That's my understanding of how it works. You subtract 10 or 11 (10 if even, 11 if odd) and that's the stat mods. Then roll/purchase stats and apply modifiers.Relative to this thread, Can you still derive non-pc's stat modifiers from their attribute scores-- taking their listed scores as the average of the race as a whole, thus allowing the class to be played as a PC with the appropriate modifiers?
Well, in regards to stats, at least.
Non-classed monsters in Pathfinder all have 10s and 11s as base stats. Therefore, you CAN determine their racial modifiers in the same manner you could in v3.5.
The game designers said as much.
thats how it used to be, but didnt pf change it to use base stat and assign +4/+4/+2/+2/+0/-2 where you want?That's my understanding of how it works. You subtract 10 or 11 (10 if even, 11 if odd) and that's the stat mods. Then roll/purchase stats and apply modifiers.Relative to this thread, Can you still derive non-pc's stat modifiers from their attribute scores-- taking their listed scores as the average of the race as a whole, thus allowing the class to be played as a PC with the appropriate modifiers?
Well, in regards to stats, at least.
Nope. That much I'm sure of. I think that's just a suggested stat array for NPCs.
Wow, alot of responses. Some not as helpful as others, but thank you all for the input! A little more information on the campaign: Its a very mixed running. The characters are now 8th level and his old pc died and he wanted to bring in a Unicorn (As we are in a dense elven forest) After much debate and research ended with using the feat as previously stated above: Surrogate Spellcasting (Wis 13, nonhumanoid or nonhumanlike form can Substitute vocalizations and gestures for verbal and somatic components)
Again, thank you all for the help =)