Personally, I'm a huge fan of the feat. Have a spell you don't need?(Often the case for a Diviner who became a diviner for the abilities and not so much for the spells.) Then become a spontaneous caster!
Pros:
- Convert unused spell into something useful!
- Spontaneous Metamagic for prepared casters!
- Coolness factor? I like having a signature spell!
Cons:
- Requires Heighten Spell as a prerequisite; generally considered a bad feat to take.
- Can make your character more of a blaster (Treantmonk frowns upon you!)
This is mostly in regards to a Wizard using the feat, not Clerics or others, so I'm not exactly sure what they'd think about the feat.
Potential things that go well with Preferred Spell:
(Lore Seeker and Magical Lineage are Traits; by extension, Additional Traits goes well with Preferred Spell if you didn't/couldn't take the traits at 1st level.)
Prerequisites: Spellcraft 15 ranks, at least three metamagic feats.
Benefit: Pick one spell which you have the ability to cast. Whenever you cast that spell you may apply any one metamagic feat you have to that spell without affecting its level or casting time, as long as the total modified level of the spell does not use a spell slot above 9th level. In addition, if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell (such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus [ray], and so on), double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to this spell.
As an extension of Spell Perfection, Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Elemental Focus, Weapon Focus, Augment Summoning, and others could be great along with it.
Metamagic that goes well with it:
Still: You can't use a Rod to do this, and it only has situational use, but since you can spontaneously add it to your spell, you can use it when the situation arises!
Reach: Especially if your chosen spell is a touch spell, this will be amazing. Otherwise, it's almost purely better than Enlarge and can allow you to cast your spell at whatever is the most convenient range for you.
Merciful: If your GM is crazy enough to allow you to reduce a spell level with Magical Lineage and this metamagic, do it. Literally, the way Magical Lineage reads, this should work. However, most GMs will rule against it. Even without the level reducing cheese, it might be a handy when a situation arises where you'd rather subdue than kill your opponents. Probably better off with the rod, though.
...and many other metamagics. Combining Preferred Spell with Spell Perfection can be fantastic. Free Quicken, Dazing, Maximize, etc.
So what are your thoughts? What spell would you choose to focus on if you had to? (Fireball is tempting... but convince me otherwise!)
Note that Lore Seeker, Spell Focus and Elemental Focus won't be useful if the spell has no save.
...and a question as an extension of that: Do Spell Focus and Elemental Focus stack? For example, Fireball: If you have Spell Focus (Evocation) and Elemental Focus (Fire), will you get both bonuses?
...and a question as an extension of that: Do Spell Focus and Elemental Focus stack? For example, Fireball: If you have Spell Focus (Evocation) and Elemental Focus (Fire), will you get both bonuses?yup
Cool. Although, regardless, it's probably a bad idea to be spending 3 or 4 feats on DC. ^^; Spell Focus is better, so probably at most Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus with your chosen spell.
I really want to make a character that has Magic Missile as his preferred spell.
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A free Maximize on a Disintigrate? yes please!
Better yet, Dragon's Breath. Fire, cold, lightning or acid in a line or a cone, with a 12d6 level cap (17d6 with Intensify Spell). 72 points of damage (maximized, or 102 maximized and intensified)) in an AoE with a free save DC bump (assuming Greater Spell Focus) sounds pretty sweet to me.
Where is Lore Seeker from?
Where is Lore Seeker from?
It's a Campaign Trait from the APG.
I suppose Treantmonk isn't here to comment, but I guess my overall question is this: Is it something a GOD wizard would use?
...and also: Is there a good spell to choose that ISN'T a blast spell?
I think being able to spontaneously cast is a powerful ability, but lends itself to be a blast spell. Sure, you could choose other spells to take as a Preferred Spell, but the idea is which spell you'd like to focus on. You can only choose one spell for Magical Lineage and Spell Perfection, so I want my Preferred Spell to be that one as well.
...but is it a GOD wizard thing to do? I guess you could prepare your spells like a GOD wizard, with a spontaneous blast-y backup...
...but then you'll always be tempted to sacrifice your spells to make things go BOOM! ...and last I head, we should let the mortals have their victory... Blargh! Help me! xP
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A free Maximize on a Disintigrate? yes please!Better yet, Dragon's Breath. Fire, cold, lightning or acid in a line or a cone, with a 12d6 level cap (17d6 with Intensify Spell). 72 points of damage (maximized, or 102 maximized and intensified)) in an AoE with a free save DC bump (assuming Greater Spell Focus) sounds pretty sweet to me.
I believe you are confusing 'preferred spell' with 'spell perfection'.
The OP had Spell Perfection in his post, so I jumped on it. Sorry if some feel it was a threadjack.
Nah, it's kind of a thread based upon the overall idea of having that signature spontaneous spell, so I suppose any aspect of it is fair game. :B
Although I suppose I should actually post the feat in question. xD
You find it very easy to cast one particular spell.
Prerequisites: Spellcraft 5 ranks, Heighten Spell.
Benefit: Choose one spell which you have the ability to
cast. You can cast that spell spontaneously by sacrificing
a prepared spell or spell slot of equal or higher level. You
can apply any metamagic feats you possess to this spell
when you cast it. This increases the minimum level of the
prepared spell or spell slot you must sacrifice in order to
cast it but does not affect the casting time.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its
effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies
to a different spell.
Ok, so back on topic: Is it worth it? Yes, for Teleport. ;)
I can see the awesome utility in never having to prepare a Teleport yet always having exactly as many as you need. :3 (I hated that about teleport: How are you supposed to know how many you need in any given day?)
...but does anyone think it's worthwhile to have that "signature spell?" Preferably a 1st to 3rd level spell, but perhaps as high as a 5th level. Could it not be awesome to have a spell that you can not only spontaneously cast, but cast it better than anyone else? Between Magical Lineage making your spontaneous metamagic one level cheaper, Spell Perfection letting you stack on free quicken, dazing, maximize, etc. and doubling the power of your Spell Penetration, Spell Focus, etc... Would it not be great?
...or is this combo too feat/trait intensive and not a great idea for the GOD wizard?
Personally, I can't contain how much I like these abilities. However, this might just be me, as the "wanna-be sorcerer."
Any min/max-ers out there? Are any wizards even remotely tempted to take this line of abilities? Does anyone think it's optimal? I feel kind of alone on this one right now. O_o;
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Feeblemind
Baleful Polymorph
Dominate Person
MindFog
Mass Charm Monster
Confusion
Are all excellent Choices for Spell Perfection.
Magical Lineage + Quicken Spell + Spell Perfection + Disintigrate.
+
Magical Lineage + Persistant Spell + Spell Perfection + Disintigrate.
Add in Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus Transmutation and well you get the idea...
Sorry Couldn't help myself
The Problem with a Preferred Spell is Annihilation Spectacles and Necromancer's Anthame which turn entire schools for thier specialist into spontanous casts.
For Preferred Spells you want to be spells you need and will use a lot.
Things like Greater Dispel Magic, Haste, Break Enchantment, Fly etc...
Pick Preferred Spells for those things you never seem to have enough prepped.
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Flesh to stone is by far the most powerful single target save or die* effect in the game. If you are looking to jack up DCs to impossible heights and take out powerful enemies one spell at a time, flesh to stone is the way to go.
For example, a 20th-level venerable lich transmuter could have a potential DC of 41.
15 intelligence modifier
10 base
06 spell level
04 heighten spell (up to 10th with Magical Lineage)
04 greater spell focus (with spell perfection)
02 lore seeker (with spell perfection
------------------------------------------------------
41 FINAL DC
Between Preferred Spell and Spell Perfection, you will be able to "freeze" up to 30 targets each day with the above DC.
You could even stack on Persistent Spell in order to force two saves at DC 39 each. Not much will get past it.
(Arcane bloodline sorcerers of a similar build can get the DC to 43, or two DC 41's with Persistent spell.)
* I know it isn't technically a save or die spell, but it effectively takes most enemies out of the fight immediately and permanently.
Feeblemind
Baleful Polymorph
Dominate Person
MindFog
Mass Charm Monster
ConfusionAre all excellent Choices for Spell Perfection.
Magical Lineage + Quicken Spell + Spell Perfection + Disintigrate.
+
Magical Lineage + Persistant Spell + Spell Perfection + Disintigrate.Add in Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus Transmutation and well you get the idea...
Sorry Couldn't help myself
The Problem with a Preferred Spell is Annihilation Spectacles and Necromancer's Anthame which turn entire schools for thier specialist into spontanous casts.
For Preferred Spells you want to be spells you need and will use a lot.
Things like Greater Dispel Magic, Haste, Break Enchantment, Fly etc...Pick Preferred Spells for those things you never seem to have enough prepped.
Huh, missed the new wondrous items. But a few problems there:
-You need to choose a bonded object. (I was thinking of going familiar/improved familiar)
-You have to be a Necromancer, Transmuter, or Universalist. (I'm going for a Diviner, with the Foresight advanced focus school)
-It has to be a spell of the same school. (So even if there was one for the Diviner, I wouldn't get much use out of it.)
-You can't spontaneously add metamagic (Well, you can use spell perfection)
So there's no way you can turn your unused Tongues spell into a Quickened Intensified Fireball or some such. ...assuming Spell Perfection and Magical Lineage. ^^;
...maybe I shouldn't go for this... Because if the only thing that's looking attractive to me is Fireball, then things won't bode well for me. >.>; (My friends will HATE me. My GM is either too nice or doesn't really know how to screw over the blaster. ...so I'd end up the center of attention, the most powerful character, ending battles on my own, etc, etc. Doesn't help that my friends aren't exactly min/max-ers.) *le sigh* Guess having that "signature spell" is better flavor than for optimizing.
I suppose the other thing that's looking fun at the moment is Calcific Touch. Cast it, have one spell that lasts for a while in which I can cause people to be slowed and take dex damage. With Magical Lineage I can apply Reach for free. With Preferred Spell, I could add things like Dazing to daze them for 4 rounds or Maximize to have them take 4 dex damage from each hit.
Flesh to stone is by far the most powerful single target save or die* effect in the game. If you are looking to jack up DCs to impossible heights and take out powerful enemies one spell at a time, flesh to stone is the way to go.
For example, a 20th-level venerable lich transmuter could have a potential DC of 41.
15 intelligence modifier
10 base
06 spell level
04 heighten spell (up to 10th with Magical Lineage)
04 greater spell focus (with spell perfection)
02 lore seeker (with spell perfection
------------------------------------------------------
41 FINAL DCBetween Preferred Spell and Spell Perfection, you will be able to "freeze" up to 30 targets each day with the above DC.
You could even stack on Persistent Spell in order to force two saves at DC 39 each. Not much will get past it.
(Arcane bloodline sorcerers of a similar build can get the DC to 43, or two DC 41's with Persistent spell.)
* I know it isn't technically a save or die spell, but it effectively takes most enemies out of the fight immediately and permanently.
One note: Spell Perfection says it doubles the bonuses for Feats. Doesn't say it doubles everything. So it shouldn't double traits like Lore Seeker. Doesn't double racial bonuses either, like Elven Magic. (Just thought I'd mention that. I wish I could double that "Spell Penetration" too.)
Still DC 40 or so; quite impressive. O_o
One note: Spell Perfection says it doubles the bonuses for Feats. Doesn't say it doubles everything. So it shouldn't double traits like Lore Seeker. Doesn't double racial bonuses either, like Elven Magic. (Just thought I'd mention that. I wish I could double that "Spell Penetration" too.)
Still DC 40 or so; quite impressive. O_o
Additional traits is a feat that can apply a +1 static bonus to the DC of one spell. Seems pretty clear cut to me.
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Additional traits is a feat that can apply a +1 static bonus to the DC of one spell. Seems pretty clear cut to me.
*cough* *B!+#$*$!* *cough*
Additional traits is a feat that can apply a +1 static bonus to the DC of one spell. Seems pretty clear cut to me.*cough* *b&**&~~&* *cough*
+1
Traits aren't feats. By that logic, through Extra Bombs, Discover, Hex, Rage Power, Revelation, etc. would be feats as well. Just because you can get more of it through a feat doesn't make it a feat.
Blasting is not the route to ultimate power. You'd be better off with Charm Monster or some other spell with asymmetric power potential. Illusions, charms, summons, various save or dies, or crazy crap like Magic Jar all rate higher.
Read up on what spellcasters can do. Then the decision will make itself.
Blasting is not the route to ultimate power. You'd be better off with Charm Monster or some other spell with asymmetric power potential. Illusions, charms, summons, various save or dies, or crazy crap like Magic Jar all rate higher.
Read up on what spellcasters can do. Then the decision will make itself.
True, true. I guess my mind goes back to the first character I ever made; a wizard with Arcane Thesis(Fireball). My DM was new to the job and had actually suggested that I take the feat. Much to his horror, my empowered, maximized, widened fireball ended our main encounter for the day in one blow. He did throw in some spell resistance and fire immunities, but nothing major. I guess I suffer from having been rewarded for having a dozen or so fireballs prepared daily. (Ah, the good old days of being a n00b)
I had never even heard of the concept of the GOD wizard. All I knew was blasting. Isn't that how you do it in the video games? Anyway, I'd like to think I've become a little smarter in wizard building and now know that blasting should be avoided. As Treantmonk would say, "You're God after all, let the mortals have their victory."
...
Anyway, back to the topic: Is there any spell that it would be worth choosing to have for Magical Lineage, Lore Seeker, Preferred Spell, and Spell Perfection? I'm a fan of the combo, but maybe it's just not that great.
Is no one else a fan of being able to spontaneously cast a spell that you can spontaneously add metamagic to with an overall level reduced by 1, and then finally add a metamagic for free?
Example: I have my True Seeing spell (that I had prepared because I'm a Diviner) and didn't have a use for it that day. I sacrifice it to cast a Calcific Touch modified by Reach +2 and Extend (a 6th level spell, by Magical Lineage) and then add on Dazing Spell or Maximize for free.
Anyway, back to the topic: Is there any spell that it would be worth choosing to have for Magical Lineage, Lore Seeker, Preferred Spell, and Spell Perfection? I'm a fan of the combo, but maybe it's just not that great.
Is no one else a fan of being able to spontaneously cast a spell that you can spontaneously add metamagic to with an overall level reduced by 1, and then finally add a metamagic for free?
I like the idea of using the combo on a blast spell... but with (as you mentioned as a possibility) Dazing Spell as your free metamagic and Persistent Spell as the level reduced by 1. For the net cost of +1 to the level of the spell, this changes the blast into a save-twice-or-be-dazed-for-a-long-time.
As for the particular blast spell, the damage doesn't really matter for this combo (though if you get Quicken Spell, you could cast it an additional time each round just for its damage), only its level (for DC and length of daze), its area of effect (or number of targets), and (depending on whether or not Dazing Spell really works with spells that continue to inflict damage) its duration.
...
Maybe I shouldn't admit it, but I like the idea of using Shadow Evocation as the blast spell.
Benefits: 5th level spell (highest possible in the combo) and great variety in terms of area of effect (and duration, if that matters), as you choose based on the need of the moment. Also has variety in terms of type of damage, to make sure you can daze even creatures immune to one particular type of damage.
Drawback: I'm not sure how Dazing Spell works with Shadow Evocation. If you cast Shadow Evocation as a Fireball, if a target succeeds on either of the two saving throws (Will and Reflex), do they avoid the dazing? If so, that's a huge drawback.
As I've indicated, I'm also not sure how Dazing Spell works with damage over time spells. If you cast Shadow Evocation as a Wall of Fire (which doesn't give an extra saving throw), and a target is damaged and dazed by the wall, will they continue to be dazed for as long as they continue to take damage and fail their saving throw? If this works, the ability to use Shadow Evocation as a Wall of Fire or Ball Lightning could be extremely powerful.
Heavens Oracle + Awsome Display + Color Spray + Prefered Spell = AWSOME :)
Heavens Oracle + Awsome Display + Color Spray + Prefered Spell = AWSOME :)
Um... no. Why in the world would an Oracle waste a feat to spontenously cast spells... WHEN THEY ALREADY DO THAT!
Maybe you meant spell perfection?
EDIT:
As to a spells I might select for preferred spell:
Heal, Freedom of Movement, Haste, Emergency Force Shelter, Resist Energy, Vampiric Touch, Summon Monster 6+, Fly, Shield, Feather Fall, Cloudkill, Touch of Idiocy, Mirror Image, Blink, Dimension Door.
A bigger question in my book is:
Does Preferred Spell allow a witch without access to a familiar cast the spell with their spell slots?
IF so then Preferred spell is to a witch what spell mastery is to a wizard.
As to a spells I might select for preferred spell:Heal, Freedom of Movement, Haste, Emergency Force Shelter, Resist Energy, Vampiric Touch, Summon Monster 6+, Fly, Shield, Feather Fall, Cloudkill, Touch of Idiocy, Mirror Image, Blink, Dimension Door.
I disagree with most choices here. Imnsho I would suggest that you want to pick a spell that you will apply metamagics to depending upon what slot you are going to sacrifice.
Many of the above choices work better in wands and staves.
-James
I picked choices I would regularly want to cast as my spells, but not have to bother memorizing. A staff would be fine, but these are spells I like to rely on. Not memorizing them means I can have other spells I might not use as often, and if I don't use them I can fall back safely on the other spell I chose as a perferred spell.
Heavens Oracle + Awsome Display + Color Spray + Prefered Spell = AWSOME :)Um... no. Why in the world would an Oracle waste a feat to spontenously cast spells... WHEN THEY ALREADY DO THAT!
Maybe you meant spell perfection?
preferred perfection , tomato tomato hehehe
but yeah differet ability
Yup that makes a whole lot more sense now.
I can see the feats to take for that oracle too:
Quicken spell, widen spell, and Heighten spell.
Improved counterspell might be a "I might use this in a blue moon" choice (though not without parry spell).
A Killer Gnome's Silent Image spell. You now have 1.6 entire schools of Magical Lineage, Lore Seeker, Preferred, and Spell Perfected spells. I can't imagine a sicker way to exploit those and more(Thesis!) than the Shadowcraft Mage(Races of Stone) Shadow Illusion ability.