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It would be waaay cheaper to get a masterwork alchemical silver light mace. And probably more effective.
I would say that your proposed rules are reasonable, but a DM would be under no obligation to use them. In fact, the DM could well impose a 500-gp minimum on any mithral item, and that would be quite reasonable as well.
The way I figure it is:
Medium Dagger = 1 lb. small weapons weigh 1/2 as much
Small Dagger = 1/2 lb. Mithral* weapons weigh 1/2 as much
Small Mithral Dagger = 1/4 lb.
1/4 lb. * 500 gp/lb. = 125 gp
Mithral weapons and armors' masterwork cost is included in the price. So, I would say RAW is 125 gp.
Now, we come across the problem of a small masterwork alchemical silver dagger costs 322 gp eventhough it is inferior in damage, hardness, and hitpoints. Generally, better items should cost more.
You could just handwave it and say that apparently mithral daggers are easier to make than silver, charge the same as a MW silver dagger or say 1 lb. minimum (500 gp). I'm kinda leaning towards the last.
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The way I figure it is:
Medium Dagger = 1 lb. small weapons weigh 1/2 as much
Small Dagger = 1/2 lb. Mithral* weapons weigh 1/2 as much
Small Mithral Dagger = 1/4 lb.
1/4 lb. * 500 gp/lb. = 125 gp
Mithral weapons and armors' masterwork cost is included in the price. So, I would say RAW is 125 gp.Now, we come across the problem of a small masterwork alchemical silver dagger costs 322 gp eventhough it is inferior in damage, hardness, and hitpoints. Generally, better items should cost more.
You could just handwave it and say that apparently mithral daggers are easier to make than silver, charge the same as a MW silver dagger or say 1 lb. minimum (500 gp). I'm kinda leaning towards the last.
cost is based on normal weight, not after cut in half . so its 1/2 lb*500gp/lb
Don't forget the masterwork. That's 300 right there.
The mithral cost includes themasterwork cost already...
...which is what makes me think mithral weapons will have a minimum cost of 300gp.
I would make you pay the cost for 1 lb of mithral even for weapons that cost less than a lb. Thus, even the smallest mithral weapons add 500 gp to the weapon's base price.
Mithral is a 500 gp per pound of the "original item's" cost.
A normal dagger is 1/2 pound. It's 252 GP.
A SMALL dagger's "original" weight is 1/4 pound. Thus, the way I personally read this as a DM, the cost is 127 GP.
With Mithral being 500gp per pound, it's really easy to do the fractions, so that's not a concern for me or my group (and I'm the current GM).
Frankly, I like that Mithral is so awesome, yet inexpensive, for smaller weapons. It does NORMAL damage and bypasses the DR of creatures that require silver weapons. For smaller weapons, it's a great boon because of the inexpensive masterworking, but for larger weapons it could be a rather painfully expensive purchase. Saving 50gp versus a medium masterwork dagger is huge at lower levels, and I'm sure that is at least part of the intent/spirit of the rules.
If a small character wants to do 1d3 damage (plus strength) rather than 1d3-1 (plus strength), that's fine by me. I'd rather see effective than ineffective things happen with my PC's.
There's my two coppers. I hope it helps.
Darkmeer
A normal dagger is 1/2 pound. It's 252 GP.
A SMALL dagger's "original" weight is 1/4 pound. Thus, the way I personally read this as a DM, the cost is 127 GP.
A normal dagger is 1 lb. A normal small dagger is 0.5 lbs.
cost is based on normal weight, not after cut in half . so its 1/2 lb*500gp/lb
Could you provide a citation for that. I thought that was the way it was calculated too but I could not find it in the core rules.
cost is based on normal weight, not after cut in half . so its 1/2 lb*500gp/lbCould you provide a citation for that. I thought that was the way it was calculated too but I could not find it in the core rules.
I couldn't find it either, thus my suppositions above, I really do need to word things longer sometimes. The way I figured it was the "original" item had its weight cut in half creating the "base" item to create out of Mithral. Now, if the "new" weight is incorrect, it invalidates my suppositions above, although a 252gp small masterwork Mithral dagger isn't too shabby if my suppositions are wrong!
If we went with the 500 GP per pound, then the armors would follow a similar model (and should, IMO). They don't. Medium armor (regardless of weight) is +4000 gp.
Let's make a mithral breastplate, using this argument (yes, I realize armors have a flat cost, which is factored in here):
Base cost (RAW): 4200 GP. Not too shabby for a decent armor.
Supposition (500 GP/Pound):
Base cost: 200gp, plus (500x30 pounds, aka 15,000 GP), total cost 15,200 GP.
Umm... no, I like the RAW just fine. Now, since the RAW doesn't specify either before cost or after cost for weapons, the only real weapons affected by these interpretations, using the core rulebook only, are:
Dagger, Punching Dagger, Sai, Siangham, and ammunition like Crossbow Bolts.
I'll be honest, none of these worry me as a DM for their power level. Giving them at a discount isn't that big a deal to me. If it is for your game, great, but if you don't mind, go right ahead and play the way you want. ooh, you want to shoot 1 bolt every other round, or spend a few feats to do it every round (no problem there). OR, you spend an exotic weapon proficiency to get a siangham, and beat people with that. Again, two costs here, and a Siangham is not a weapon I have really seen used by the Character Optimizers anywhere I game. I'll sell mine at a reduced price, you sell them at 300gp or higher, and we'll both walk away happy and our gaming groups will be too.
/d
cost is based on normal weight, not after cut in half . so its 1/2 lb*500gp/lbThe way I figure it is:
Medium Dagger = 1 lb. small weapons weigh 1/2 as much
Small Dagger = 1/2 lb. Mithral* weapons weigh 1/2 as much
Small Mithral Dagger = 1/4 lb.
1/4 lb. * 500 gp/lb. = 125 gp
Mithral weapons and armors' masterwork cost is included in the price. So, I would say RAW is 125 gp.Now, we come across the problem of a small masterwork alchemical silver dagger costs 322 gp eventhough it is inferior in damage, hardness, and hitpoints. Generally, better items should cost more.
You could just handwave it and say that apparently mithral daggers are easier to make than silver, charge the same as a MW silver dagger or say 1 lb. minimum (500 gp). I'm kinda leaning towards the last.
Been waiting for something to indicate whether you use the weight of the mithril item or the original and finally we have it. According to Ultimate Equipment guide a pot weighs 4lbs and costs 8SP. A mithril pot weighs 2lbs and costs...1001gp, thus the cost of items (including weapons) made of mithril is indeed 500gp * mithril item's weight. The mithril waffle iron also shows this. The results I was hoping for and which in fact makes the most sense to me. Hooray! Mithril Wakizashi's here I come.
And this is why special material properties should not be based off of the pound when placed on weapons. :)
- Gauss
Cool necromancy Bro.
Also, non-weapon, non-armor examples are bad ones.
Those are unique.
Uh, these items are NOT unique. No Mithril Pot of Ultimate Ramen Making or Waffle Iron of Infinite Whipcream and Strawberries. As far as Mithril is concerned there are no mithril weapons only mithril items. The mithril breakdown is light armor, medium armor, heavy armor, shields, and items. Items clearly containing cooking equipment and weapons and why not. Did anyone see Rapunzel wielding that frying pan in Tangled! Now imagine what kind of damage she could have done with a mithril pan (shudder). Alas, my Tian ninja is not proficient in frying pan or I'd pursue that avenue.
I don't know that I'm against cost based on weight, but a min gold or min wt for calculation should be employed. 1lb would be reasonable as it makes mithril items more expensive than any masterwork equivalent item you could generate and seems reasonable (well at least to me).
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Oh joy... yet another corner case where applying RAW by the letter shows that we have moved beyond the scope where the rules were intended to go.
Just add a minimum of +500 to mithril (or mithral, or mythril, see if I care) weapons (akin to the +300 for masterwork); use the tried and trusted formular for mithral ammunition, and leave things be.
Seriously, guys: Are you trying to play a game, or are you practicing for your final exams in legalese?
The concept that a small mithral dagger (masterwork by default) would be cheaper than a plain masterwork dagger kind of defies common sense.
The concept that a small mithral dagger (masterwork by default) would be cheaper than a plain masterwork dagger kind of defies common sense.
So why not add 300 GP for the master work property and 250 gp for the mithril component? That would bring the dagger to 552 GP...
So why not add 300 GP for the master work property and 250 gp for the mithril component? That would bring the dagger to 552 GP...
Ah, but RAW-wise, the price for masterwork is already included in the markup for mithral...
Pretty much...
Which is why basing the cost on the weight of the finished product just doesn't work.
Seriously, guys: Are you trying to play a game, or are you practicing for your final exams in legalese?
Milk shot forth from my nares.
Best.
Post.
Ever.
So true in so many cases :)