Does bardic performance end when you rage?


Rules Questions


2 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

I'm currently toying with an idea of making a Bard/Barbarian, and I would like to know If Bardic performance ends when you rage? I would start the Performance and then Rage in the round after OR imidiatly after - it being a free action.

I the rules for Bardic performance it says: A bard is trained to use the Perform skill to create magical effects on those around him, including himself if desired. He can use this ability for a number of rounds per day equal to 4 + his Charisma modifier. At each level after 1st a bard can use bardic performance for 2 additional rounds per day. Each round, the bard can produce any one of the types of bardic performance that he has mastered, as indicated by his level.

Starting a bardic performance is a standard action, but it can be maintained each round as a free action. Changing a bardic performance from one effect to another requires the bard to stop the previous performance and start a new one as a standard action. A bardic performance cannot be disrupted, but it ends immediately if the bard is killed, paralyzed, stunned, knocked unconscious, or otherwise prevented from taking a free action to maintain it each round. A bard cannot have more than one bardic performance in effect at one time.

And the rules for Rage reads: A barbarian can call upon inner reserves of strength and ferocity, granting her additional combat prowess. Starting at 1st level, a barbarian can rage for a number of rounds per day equal to 4 + her Constitution modifier. At each level after 1st, she can rage for 2 additional rounds. Temporary increases to Constitution, such as those gained from rage and spells like bear's endurance, do not increase the total number of rounds that a barbarian can rage per day. A barbarian can enter rage as a free action. The total number of rounds of rage per day is renewed after resting for 8 hours, although these hours do not need to be consecutive.

While in rage, a barbarian gains a +4 morale bonus to her Strength and Constitution, as well as a +2 morale bonus on Will saves. In addition, she takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase to Constitution grants the barbarian 2 hit points per Hit Dice, but these disappear when the rage ends and are not lost first like temporary hit points. While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.

What do you guys say, what's the ruling?

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

No, you just invent Heavy Metal. ;P

Seriously, it would have to. Perform is one of those "Charisma Skills" that requires concentration.


Damn, it could be so cool having a raging barbarian charging the enemy singing battle hymns at the top of his lungs and inspiring his fellows to greater acts og courage.

But I do see you point, sadly enough.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Thomas Elfing Johansen wrote:

Damn, it could be so cool having a raging barbarian charging the enemy singing battle hymns at the top of his lungs and inspiring his fellows to greater acts og courage.

But I do see you point, sadly enough.

Actually, check out the Savage Skald option in the Advanced Player's Guide (page 84).


Lord Fyre wrote:
Actually, check out the Savage Skald option in the Advanced Player's Guide (page 84).

I would very much like to, but I don't have the book. I didn't think it was published?

Do you have some inside information you could share?

Silver Crusade

It's getting released for Gencon next weekend.

Personally I think the Bard/Barbarian idea is a good one though.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Thomas Elfing Johansen wrote:
Lord Fyre wrote:
Actually, check out the Savage Skald option in the Advanced Player's Guide (page 84).

I would very much like to, but I don't have the book. I didn't think it was published?

Do you have some inside information you could share?

Subscribers got their PDF versions early. But, it officially becomes available at the end of next week.

I am not quite sure of the "legality" of sharing contents of the book before then. :(


FallofCamelot wrote:
It's getting released for Gencon next weekend.

I'm looking forward to that, I have already preordered it.

FallofCamelot wrote:
Personally I think the Bard/Barbarian idea is a good one though.

I thought so to, it's a mix you don't se that often.

Silver Crusade

Sounds cool.

Wendy O. Williams of the Plasmatics comes to mind.


Andrew Besso wrote:

Sounds cool.

Wendy O. Williams of the Plasmatics comes to mind.

Yeah, I have had a Warrior Skald kicking around in my brain for a while now.

and I thought of early Ted Nugent, swinging on a vine or leaping off his Marshall stacks, to land on stage. In a loincloth.


Thomas Elfing Johansen wrote:
What do you guys say, what's the ruling?

It depends on the DM. Some will assume that bardic performance require concentration. Some won't.

Anyway, you can't use a bardic performance which require a perform check (like countersong).


I am playing as a Bard/Barbarian gestalt right now, with nerfed hit die and spell list, but I am able to continue a performance once I begin raging and attacking.

I suppose it's fairly houseruled, but I'm not any more or less powerful than our RAW monk.

Dark Archive

3.5 actually had a list of which performances required checks and what not. i think it was in UA with either the savage bard or the gestalting section

"You can't use any ability that requires concentration while
raging, nor can you use any Charisma-based skill other than
Intimidate (so Perform is out). Thus, only a few of the bardic
music abilities are available to a raging bard:

* Countersong: No (Perform check required).
* Fascinate: No (Perform check required).
* Inspire Courage: Yes.
* Inspire Competence: Only lasts 1 round per use (concentration required).
* Suggestion: No, because you can't use fascinate.
* Inspire Greatness: Yes.
* Song of Freedom: No (requires concentration).
* Inspire Heroics: Yes.
* Mass Suggestion: No, because you can't use fascinate."

should still apply, unless they got changed from 3.5


I can't imagine a raging bard singing anything other than battle-songs while in combat anyway (Courage, Greatness, Heroics, etc.), so it doesn't seem to be a huge thematic loss.


Name Violation wrote:

"You can't use any ability that requires concentration while raging, nor can you use any Charisma-based skill other than Intimidate (so Perform is out). Thus, only a few of the bardic music abilities are available to a raging bard:

* Countersong: No (Perform check required).
* Fascinate: No (Perform check required).
* Inspire Courage: Yes.
* Inspire Competence: Only lasts 1 round per use (concentration required).
* Suggestion: No, because you can't use fascinate.
* Inspire Greatness: Yes.
* Song of Freedom: No (requires concentration).
* Inspire Heroics: Yes.
* Mass Suggestion: No, because you can't use fascinate."

Awesome Name Violation, thanks for the above.

Kilbourne wrote:
I can't imagine a raging bard singing anything other than battle-songs while in combat anyway (Courage, Greatness, Heroics, etc.), so it doesn't seem to be a huge thematic loss."

I couldn't agree more. I'm not about to fascinate or use suggestion on anyone while I'm charging head first into the enemy.

Also, nice to see that I'm not the only one with this idea. Any advice for a would-be Bard/Barbarian KilBourne?

Liberty's Edge

So would you call your character a Bardbarian?

Also, there's a feat called Berserker's Cry in the Pathfinder Campaign Setting that allows you to make a primal scream that grants you and your allies within 60 ft. a +1 bonus to damage rolls. You can even do it as a free action if you have the ability to rage.


The name changes up a a little, as Common is a second language to Cailte. So he's a skald, battle-chanter, warsinger, howler-man... those have all been used by himself or other party members.

Here is that Berserker's Cry feat, by the way:

Quote:

Benefit: Once per day, as a move action, you may unleash a powerful, bloodthirsty scream of battle lust and fury. Allies within 60 feet who can hear your berserker’s cry (including yourself ) are heartened and gain a +1 morale bonus on damage rolls made with melee attacks for a number of rounds equal to half your character level + your Charisma bonus. If you have the ability to rage, you may unleash a berserker’s cry as part of the free action to enter a rage (instead of as a separate move action).

A creature may be under the effect of only one berserker’s cry at a time.

Special: You may gain this feat multiple times. Every time you take this feat, you may unleash a berserker's cry one additional time per day.

Advice? Well, I'm not really one for number-crunching in terms of optimization, so I'll just tell you what I've done; Cailte needs to be able to cast spells without fearing the penalty of armor, and for that he wears only light armor. For flavor, both his hide armor and his cestus are spiked. Also remember that you cannot rage and cast spells at once, unless you take the Moment of Clarity rage power, granting you a rage-round without any penalties, in order to cast a spell or concentrate otherwise. Quicken spell is also great for this build. There's also a lovely weapon called the Totem Spear that can be used as a bardic performance instrument during or out of combat.

Cailte uses only offensive spells, so no Mage Armor or Heal spells, there. That's flavor as well, you can do either. The Bard/Barbarian split is actually really great for skills; Cailte has everything but Fly and Heal as class skills, and the Bardic Knowledge power really lets him put those ranks in other more mundane skills

The only downside to this gestalt class is that it's very Multi Ability Dependent (MAD), and is weaker in it's dependent ability scores than a Single Ability Dependent class (SAD), like a wizard. Cailte needs STR, CON, CHA, and DEX to do his bit well in combat, and survive without taking too many hits through his light armor. I didn't dump-stat either INT or WIS, wanting a rounded character, so that doesn't make my top scores super-high either.

In any case, if you build this character, you'll have fun. Being able to cast and kill is great, and his social skills from the Bard class are a great boon for the Barbarian side of you, but be ready for the softness of your light armor on the front line. Your massive HP pool can soak this up a bit for you, but remember to pick up Renewed Vigor as a rage power to give you that little edge as the last battles begin to take their toll.

It's also not a bad idea to abscond from the front line entirely. Pick up a compound greatbow and blast the crap out of everything will work too. Trust me.

Whatever you do, remember


Thanks for the advice Kilbourne, I'm sure I can use most of it. Always nice to gets some help.

One quick question though, what's a Gestalt Class, I've heard the term mentioned before, but never could figure it out?


Hi guys

It's been a while since this old bad boy was in play last.

My group and I are about to start a new Campaign soon (Kingmaker), and since the release of both the Advenced Players Guide, Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat, I think my idea can work.

If I choose the Urban Barbarian Archetype I should be able to use my Bardic Performance while Raging (Controlled Rage), as I'm still able to use Intelligence-, Dexterity-, and Charisma-based skills.

What do you guys think, is this doable rules wise? Or am I mistaken?


Arthur Boyd wrote:
So would you call your character a Bardbarian?

How dare you insult our ancient art with a name like Bardbarian! Only the name Bardarian is deserving.


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Yep, you're golden. Your bard/barbarian can rage sing to her hearts content (at least until she runs out of rage or bardic performance).


Thanks mdt!

Shadow Lodge

erik542 wrote:
Arthur Boyd wrote:
So would you call your character a Bardbarian?
How dare you insult our ancient art with a name like Bardbarian! Only the name Bardarian is deserving.

Actually i'm getting sick of being told i'm a skald.


My little boy absolutely adores a BattleLore video on youtube where the lead singer carries a battleaxe and wears armor and shouts battlecries. It's a Finnish epic metal band with Lord of the Rings themes (the song in question is a patriotic Riders of Rohan song). That's what I see a barbarian bard as doing.

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