How much would it cost a wizard to know every spell

[Phasics]

Just wondering if anyone knows how much it would cost a wizard to know and have every arcane spell on the wiz list in their spell books ?

in case your wondering why its for a pregen lv20, figured I could save myself some time on the lists if he simple has access to every spell.

[Kierato]

The cost of 2 Blessed books (Otherwise you would need 17 normal spell books (OK, 16.5).

[Phasics]

Kierato wrote:

The cost of 2 Blessed books (Otherwise you would need 17 normal spell books (OK, 16.5).

what about the costs of the scroll for each spell you don't get for free when you levelup ?

[Kierato]

I have that calculated somewhere, give me a minute to find it.

[Phasics]

Kierato wrote:

I have that calculated somewhere, give me a minute to find it.

thanks

[Kthulhu]

Well, if you open it up to beyond the Core Rules, and especially to include 3PP, it required massively infinite amounts of money, a similarly massively infinite amount of time to scribe, and an infinite number of books to scribe them into (yup, even if they're blessed books).

[Abraham spalding]

Also remember that scrolls aren't your only option -- in the magic section it does state that wizards will share their spell book for a fee (which is much cheaper than a scroll is).

[General Dorsey]

Phasics wrote:

Just wondering if anyone knows how much it would cost a wizard to know and have every arcane spell on the wiz list in their spell books ?

in case your wondering why its for a pregen lv20, figured I could save myself some time on the lists if he simple has access to every spell.

If he hunts down and "acquires" spellbooks from other wizards, the only cost would be for scribing them into his books.

[Thazar]

There are three levels of cost to this. (The short answer is 500,390 Gold)

1. How much does it cost in ink to add every spell in the core book to a wizard.

2.How many books and how much does it cost for those books and are there magical options?

3. How much does it cost to buy every spell you are going to scribe in scroll form BEFORE starting to add it to your spellbook?

You start off knowing every cantrip. You also know three spells plus your INT Modifier. You also get two spells for free every level. You get one spellbook for free at first level. (Assume 20 INT) So you get 0-All, 1st-10, 2nd~8th - 4 each, 9th-8 free spells with no cost.

That leaves to buy these spells per level. (Scribe Ink Cost) {ALL pages} [Scroll Cost]
0 - None (5G=)G) {20 Pages} [12.5G=0G]
1 - 29 (10G=290G) {39 Pages) [25G=725G]
2 - 47 (40G=1880G) {102 Pages} [150G=7050G]
3 - 39 (90G=3510G) {129 Pages} [375G=14625G]
4 - 38 (160G=6080G) {168 Pages} [700G=26600G]
5 - 43 (250G=10750G) {235 Pages} [1125G=48375G]
6 - 43 (360G=15480G) {282 Pages} [1650G=70950G]
7 - 36 (490G=17640G) {280 Pages} [2275G=81900G]
8 - 33 (640G=21120G) {296 Pages} [3000G=99000G]
9 - 16 (810G=12960G) {180 Pages} [3825G=61200G]

So the total Ink cost is 89,710 Gold and the total Spellbook cost is 255 Gold for a total minimum cost of 89,965 Gold. Buying the extra spells on scrolls first would cost 410,425 Gold.

A Blessed Book costs 12,500 GP and has 1,000 pages. You do not need to pay anything to scribe spells into this book. So this is the better way to go if possible.

You also may find spells from captured spell books or as a member of a Faction.

EDIT _ Also please note my math may have typo's... but at least I showed my work mostly. :)

[Themetricsystem]

Thazar wrote:

There are three levels of cost to this. (The short answer is 500,390 Gold)

1. How much does it cost in ink to add every spell in the core book to a wizard.

2.How many books and how much does it cost for those books and are there magical options?

3. How much does it cost to buy every spell you are going to scribe in scroll form BEFORE starting to add it to your spellbook?

You start off knowing every cantrip. You also know three spells plus your INT Modifier. You also get two spells for free every level. You get one spellbook for free at first level. (Assume 20 INT) So you get 0-All, 1st-10, 2nd~8th - 4 each, 9th-8 free spells with no cost.

That leaves to buy these spells per level. (Scribe Ink Cost) {ALL pages} [Scroll Cost]
0 - None (5G=)G) {20 Pages} [12.5G=0G]
1 - 29 (10G=290G) {39 Pages) [25G=725G]
2 - 47 (40G=1880G) {102 Pages} [150G=7050G]
3 - 39 (90G=3510G) {129 Pages} [375G=14625G]
4 - 38 (160G=6080G) {168 Pages} [700G=26600G]
5 - 43 (250G=10750G) {235 Pages} [1125G=48375G]
6 - 43 (360G=15480G) {282 Pages} [1650G=70950G]
7 - 36 (490G=17640G) {280 Pages} [2275G=81900G]
8 - 33 (640G=21120G) {296 Pages} [3000G=99000G]
9 - 16 (810G=12960G) {180 Pages} [3825G=61200G]

So the total Ink cost is 89,710 Gold and the total Spellbook cost is 255 Gold for a total minimum cost of 89,965 Gold. Buying the extra spells on scrolls first would cost 410,425 Gold.

A Blessed Book costs 12,500 GP and has 1,000 pages. You do not need to pay anything to scribe spells into this book. So this is the better way to go if possible.

You also may find spells from captured spell books or as a member of a Faction.

EDIT _ Also please note my math may have typo's... but at least I showed my work mostly. :)

You forget the 2 free spells they get every level and that you can pay a fellow wizard to copy his spellbook for a nominal fee. From page 219 of the PFCRB

"In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook."

So from that you add take the material to write it in the book, and then add another half. Buying scrolls to copy into your book is a wasteful and expensive option.

[Thazar]

I included the free spells and spelled out how many you get per level. In the "Chart" I list how many you have to add beyond the free ones. So it is all there. I also stated that if you were to find a spell book or be a member of a faction that would change things as those can be gotten for less.

The question was not in a game how many spells would you have to pay for vs how many you find from friend or other spellbooks. The question was how much does is cost. I listed the cost per the question and included all of the free stuff spelled out in the Wizard class description.

[Phasics]

ouch so in other words more than half the gold value a level 20 character would otherwise have

[Thazar]

Phasics wrote:

ouch so in other words more than half the gold value a level 20 character would otherwise have

Yes, if you build a character at level 20 without any RP to get there. In more real world characters you find TONS of spell books in play. You befriend other wizards as well. You may even join a mages guild like the Arcanamirium from the faction guide. All of these things allow you more access to spells without having to buy the scrolls first.

You could have a very healthy spell list by level 20 and only spend say 25~50K in gold. It may not be EVERY spell but it would be the vast majority of them.

In this example I would say buy every spell at level 3 and below for about 20K. Then cherry pick your higher level spells to round out what you need. Overall I would spend up to about 50~75K on spells if this were a one shot. If it is the start of some kind of Epic campaign... I would really consider buying just about every spell. The need of more spell choices is directly tied to how long your campaign will last.

One shots can get away with more basic and common spells. While a campaign spanning a year of play will allow a greater chance of using the niche spells.

[Ravingdork]

Phasics wrote:

ouch so in other words more than half the gold value a level 20 character would otherwise have

If a player is spending half their 20th-level funds on just spells, than they're an idiot.

A person with Craft Wondrous Items could craft himself a pair of Blessed Spellbooks for 12,500gp and, paying only the viewing fees of wizard spells thereafter, could learn every core wizard spell in the game for a measly 52,405gp. That's not even counting the spells you get for free at level up, which would substantially reduce this value.

So, if your spellbook got burnt to ash and you had no backups, you could still learn every wizard spell in the core rulebook for 64,405gp.

Last I checked, that is less than 10% of a 20h-level characters total wealth. A small, small fraction of your level's starting funds in exchange for unlimited power.

What's more, once you've accomplished this simple task, you could make backup copies for a measly 12,500gp! In fact, you could make no less than two sets of backup copies and STILL be under 10% of your starting funds!

Spell Mastery I spit upon you.

;P

EDIT: What makes this even better, is that the cost is only a fraction of your starting funds throughout most of your career if you only focus on learning the spells you are capable of casting.

[LazarX]

Kierato wrote:

The cost of 2 Blessed books (Otherwise you would need 17 normal spell books (OK, 16.5).

There's also the cost involved in getting ACCESS to the spell. "What you think you're going to look at my books for FREE!!!!" I believe there were suggested guidelinses in at least d20 on how much they would charge for the privilege.

[Mr Whos]

Adding spells to a blessed book doesn't cost anything if you copy it from another book, if I'm remembering correct. So you have to be good freid's with a alot of wizards from the acdamey of korvosa.
The wizard in my party just trades spells with with every wizard that he meets.

[Ravingdork]

LazarX wrote:

Kierato wrote:

The cost of 2 Blessed books (Otherwise you would need 17 normal spell books (OK, 16.5).

There's also the cost involved in getting ACCESS to the spell. "What you think you're going to look at my books for FREE!!!!" I believe there were suggested guidelinses in at least d20 on how much they would charge for the privilege.

Who needs guidelines from another system? The rules exist right here in Pathfinder. You can find them on page 219 of the core rulebook. In short...

2.5gp per 0-level spell
5gp per 1st-level spell
20gp per 2nd-level spell
45gp per 3rd-level spell
80gp per 4th-level spell
125gp per 5th-level spell
180gp per 6th-level spell
245gp per 7th-level spell
320gp per 8th-level spell
405gp per 9th-level spell

[LazarX]

Mr Whos wrote:

Adding spells to a blessed book doesn't cost anything if you copy it from another book, if I'm remembering correct. So you have to be good freid's with a alot of wizards from the acdamey of korvosa.

The wizard in my party just trades spells with with every wizard that he meets.

I always went by the Greyhawk assumption that Wizards would start out hostile to the idea and it would take a fair amount of cash to change their attitudes. And some spells simply would not be shared period.

[Ravingdork]

LazarX wrote:

Mr Whos wrote:

Adding spells to a blessed book doesn't cost anything if you copy it from another book, if I'm remembering correct. So you have to be good freid's with a alot of wizards from the acdamey of korvosa.

The wizard in my party just trades spells with with every wizard that he meets.

I always went by the Greyhawk assumption that Wizards would start out hostile to the idea and it would take a fair amount of cash to change their attitudes. And some spells simply would not be shared period.

I think of it as gun enthusiasts, martial arts experts, or something similar. They may be willing to trade secrets and such, and are generally willing to do so, but they aren't going to do so if they think the other person is crazy or might use the newly gained power for ill.

[ZappoHisbane]

Ravingdork wrote:

LazarX wrote:

Mr Whos wrote:

Adding spells to a blessed book doesn't cost anything if you copy it from another book, if I'm remembering correct. So you have to be good freid's with a alot of wizards from the acdamey of korvosa.

The wizard in my party just trades spells with with every wizard that he meets.

I always went by the Greyhawk assumption that Wizards would start out hostile to the idea and it would take a fair amount of cash to change their attitudes. And some spells simply would not be shared period.

I think of it as gun enthusiasts, martial arts experts, or something similar. They may be willing to trade secrets and such, and are generally willing to do so, but they aren't going to do so if they think the other person is crazy or might use the newly gained power for ill.

...or unless they're nuts too. :P

[Name Violation]

if the wizard can take a 1st level feat from complete arcane, called collegate wizard i think, they can learn an extra spell or 2 per level for free

[LazarX]

Ravingdork wrote:

They may be willing to trade secrets and such, and are generally willing to do so, but they aren't going to do so if they think the other person is crazy or might use the newly gained power for ill.

There actually much more mundane reasons for it that have nothing to do with ethics or morality. Most nonadventuring wizards are making a living doing things like casting divinations, analyzing magic items and providing the occasional teleportation services. the last thing they want to do is help build up competition. It's not that different a problem a Bard faces when entering a strange town. If he doesn't check to see if the local musician's guild hasn't staked out the territory, he may wind up with his instrument smashed if he just ups and performs in the town square.

So before a Wizard will agree to trade spells or sell access to his spellbook he's going to make darn sure he's not making things worse for himself in the long term.

[Ravingdork]

LazarX wrote:

Ravingdork wrote:

They may be willing to trade secrets and such, and are generally willing to do so, but they aren't going to do so if they think the other person is crazy or might use the newly gained power for ill.

There actually much more mundane reasons for it that have nothing to do with ethics or morality. Most nonadventuring wizards are making a living doing things like casting divinations, analyzing magic items and providing the occasional teleportation services. the last thing they want to do is help build up competition. It's not that different a problem a Bard faces when entering a strange town. If he doesn't check to see if the local musician's guild hasn't staked out the territory, he may wind up with his instrument smashed if he just ups and performs in the town square.

So before a Wizard will agree to trade spells or sell access to his spellbook he's going to make darn sure he's not making things worse for himself in the long term.

So you think of it as a professional cook's secret recipes. After all, if everyone knows the recipe, what makes the cook so special (or worth paying)?

[Blueluck]

LazarX wrote:

So before a Wizard will agree to trade spells or sell access to his spellbook he's going to make darn sure he's not making things worse for himself in the long term.

Definitely. Most professional Wizards wouldn't want to sell an attack spell to someone who seems violent, for example. The role-playing opportunities here are rich.

On the other hand, Wizards can always use more money. I don't expect they get a ton of business from the average consumer. (I ran some math, and the cost of having a Wizard cast a 1st level spell starts at the equivalent of $4,200, and over $25,000 for a 2nd level spell. This is based on the wages of skilled labor in Pathfinder.) So, if someone is willing to pay you a pile of gold to hang out in your library and copy your spells, you may be quite inclined to take their money!

Ravingdork wrote:

So you think of it as a professional cook's secret recipes. After all, if everyone knows the recipe, what makes the cook so special (or worth paying)?

Don't forget that the spells listed are the common spells, not the secret ones. A Wizard can do independent research to make up a unique spell, and I imagine those spells are guarded much more closely!

Generally . . .
When I DM, if there's a lot going on and the players don't want to take the time to roleplay relationships with local wizards, I look at Table 15-1 "Available Magic Items" to a general idea if you're in a large enough town to find the level of spells you're looking for, and just let wizards pay standard rates to copy spells from locals. It's the economy that was written into the game, and I don't feel the need to make spells any more expensive than RAW.

Also, it's very likely that a PC Wizard, especially one interested in collecting all the spells, will know some spells that more sedentary practitioners don't. I assume NPC wizards are interested in trade at least as much as cash.

PC - I'll swap you this fire spell for your lighting spell!
NPC -Hmm, I don't know. I was going to give my familiar a bath today.
PC - How about if I throw in any lower levels spells you want and 90 gold?
NPC -Well, OK, fluffybunbun doesn't really like baths anyway.

In fact, it wouldn't be strange for the PCs to wander into a city and the Wizard to immediately start making money by selling spell knowledge!

[Mr Whos]

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How much would it cost a wizard to know every spell

Phasics, Sun, Jul 25, 2010, 11:02 PM
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Just wondering if anyone knows how much it would cost a wizard to know and have every arcane spell on the wiz list in their spell books ?

in case your wondering why its for a pregen lv20, figured I could save myself some time on the lists if he simple has access to every spell.

Kierato, Sun, Jul 25, 2010, 11:05 PM
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PF 20-15 avatar

The cost of 2 Blessed books (Otherwise you would need 17 normal spell books (OK, 16.5).

Phasics, Sun, Jul 25, 2010, 11:10 PM
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Kierato wrote:

The cost of 2 Blessed books (Otherwise you would need 17 normal spell books (OK, 16.5).

what about the costs of the scroll for each spell you don't get for free when you levelup ?

Kierato, Sun, Jul 25, 2010, 11:15 PM
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PF 20-15 avatar

I have that calculated somewhere, give me a minute to find it.

Phasics, Sun, Jul 25, 2010, 11:25 PM
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Kierato wrote:

I have that calculated somewhere, give me a minute to find it.

thanks

Kthulhu, Mon, Jul 26, 2010, 12:14 AM
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Illithid avatar

Well, if you open it up to beyond the Core Rules, and especially to include 3PP, it required massively infinite amounts of money, a similarly massively infinite amount of time to scribe, and an infinite number of books to scribe them into (yup, even if they're blessed books).

Abraham spalding, Mon, Jul 26, 2010, 12:17 AM
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A 16-Red-Death avatar

Also remember that scrolls aren't your only option -- in the magic section it does state that wizards will share their spell book for a fee (which is much cheaper than a scroll is).

General Dorsey, Mon, Jul 26, 2010, 12:34 AM
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Survey AD 1 avatar

Phasics wrote:

Just wondering if anyone knows how much it would cost a wizard to know and have every arcane spell on the wiz list in their spell books ?

in case your wondering why its for a pregen lv20, figured I could save myself some time on the lists if he simple has access to every spell.

If he hunts down and "acquires" spellbooks from other wizards, the only cost would be for scribing them into his books.

Thazar (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Tales, GameMastery Cards, Planet Stories Subscriber), Mon, Jul 26, 2010, 12:36 AM
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Face-Offcolor 1 avatar

There are three levels of cost to this. (The short answer is 500,390 Gold)

1. How much does it cost in ink to add every spell in the core book to a wizard.

2.How many books and how much does it cost for those books and are there magical options?

3. How much does it cost to buy every spell you are going to scribe in scroll form BEFORE starting to add it to your spellbook?

You start off knowing every cantrip. You also know three spells plus your INT Modifier. You also get two spells for free every level. You get one spellbook for free at first level. (Assume 20 INT) So you get 0-All, 1st-10, 2nd~8th - 4 each, 9th-8 free spells with no cost.

That leaves to buy these spells per level. (Scribe Ink Cost) {ALL pages} [Scroll Cost]
0 - None (5G=)G) {20 Pages} [12.5G=0G]
1 - 29 (10G=290G) {39 Pages) [25G=725G]
2 - 47 (40G=1880G) {102 Pages} [150G=7050G]
3 - 39 (90G=3510G) {129 Pages} [375G=14625G]
4 - 38 (160G=6080G) {168 Pages} [700G=26600G]
5 - 43 (250G=10750G) {235 Pages} [1125G=48375G]
6 - 43 (360G=15480G) {282 Pages} [1650G=70950G]
7 - 36 (490G=17640G) {280 Pages} [2275G=81900G]
8 - 33 (640G=21120G) {296 Pages} [3000G=99000G]
9 - 16 (810G=12960G) {180 Pages} [3825G=61200G]

So the total Ink cost is 89,710 Gold and the total Spellbook cost is 255 Gold for a total minimum cost of 89,965 Gold. Buying the extra spells on scrolls first would cost 410,425 Gold.

A Blessed Book costs 12,500 GP and has 1,000 pages. You do not need to pay anything to scribe spells into this book. So this is the better way to go if possible.

You also may find spells from captured spell books or as a member of a Faction.

EDIT _ Also please note my math may have typo's... but at least I showed my work mostly. :)

Cheliax Themetricsystem, Mon, Jul 26, 2010, 01:14 AM
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5 Maester-Grump avatar

Thazar wrote:

There are three levels of cost to this. (The short answer is 500,390 Gold)

1. How much does it cost in ink to add every spell in the core book to a wizard.

2.How many books and how much does it cost for those books and are there magical options?

3. How much does it cost to buy every spell you are going to scribe in scroll form BEFORE starting to add it to your spellbook?

You start off knowing every cantrip. You also know three spells plus your INT Modifier. You also get two spells for free every level. You get one spellbook for free at first level. (Assume 20 INT) So you get 0-All, 1st-10, 2nd~8th - 4 each, 9th-8 free spells with no cost.

That leaves to buy these spells per level. (Scribe Ink Cost) {ALL pages} [Scroll Cost]
0 - None (5G=)G) {20 Pages} [12.5G=0G]
1 - 29 (10G=290G) {39 Pages) [25G=725G]
2 - 47 (40G=1880G) {102 Pages} [150G=7050G]
3 - 39 (90G=3510G) {129 Pages} [375G=14625G]
4 - 38 (160G=6080G) {168 Pages} [700G=26600G]
5 - 43 (250G=10750G) {235 Pages} [1125G=48375G]
6 - 43 (360G=15480G) {282 Pages} [1650G=70950G]
7 - 36 (490G=17640G) {280 Pages} [2275G=81900G]
8 - 33 (640G=21120G) {296 Pages} [3000G=99000G]
9 - 16 (810G=12960G) {180 Pages} [3825G=61200G]

So the total Ink cost is 89,710 Gold and the total Spellbook cost is 255 Gold for a total minimum cost of 89,965 Gold. Buying the extra spells on scrolls first would cost 410,425 Gold.

A Blessed Book costs 12,500 GP and has 1,000 pages. You do not need to pay anything to scribe spells into this book. So this is the better way to go if possible.

You also may find spells from captured spell books or as a member of a Faction.

EDIT _ Also please note my math may have typo's... but at least I showed my work mostly. :)

You forget the 2 free spells they get every level and that you can pay a fellow wizard to copy his spellbook for a nominal fee. From page 219 of the PFCRB

"In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook."

So from that you add take the material to write it in the book, and then add another half. Buying scrolls to copy into your book is a wasteful and expensive option.

Thazar (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Tales, GameMastery Cards, Planet Stories Subscriber), Mon, Jul 26, 2010, 01:34 AM
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I included the free spells and spelled out how many you get per level. In the "Chart" I list how many you have to add beyond the free ones. So it is all there. I also stated that if you were to find a spell book or be a member of a faction that would change things as those can be gotten for less.

The question was not in a game how many spells would you have to pay for vs how many you find from friend or other spellbooks. The question was how much does is cost. I listed the cost per the question and included all of the free stuff spelled out in the Wizard class description.

Phasics, Mon, Jul 26, 2010, 02:23 AM
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ouch so in other words more than half the gold value a level 20 character would otherwise have

Thazar (Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Tales, GameMastery Cards, Planet Stories Subscriber), Mon, Jul 26, 2010, 02:45 AM
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Phasics wrote:

ouch so in other words more than half the gold value a level 20 character would otherwise have

Yes, if you build a character at level 20 without any RP to get there. In more real world characters you find TONS of spell books in play. You befriend other wizards as well. You may even join a mages guild like the Arcanamirium from the faction guide. All of these things allow you more access to spells without having to buy the scrolls first.

You could have a very healthy spell list by level 20 and only spend say 25~50K in gold. It may not be EVERY spell but it would be the vast majority of them.

In this example I would say buy every spell at level 3 and below for about 20K. Then cherry pick your higher level spells to round out what you need. Overall I would spend up to about 50~75K on spells if this were a one shot. If it is the start of some kind of Epic campaign... I would really consider buying just about every spell. The need of more spell choices is directly tied to how long your campaign will last.

One shots can get away with more basic and common spells. While a campaign spanning a year of play will allow a greater chance of using the niche spells.

Ravingdork, Yesterday, 10:18 AM
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Raegos Final avatar

Phasics wrote:

ouch so in other words more than half the gold value a level 20 character would otherwise have

If a player is spending half their 20th-level funds on just spells, than they're an idiot.

A person with Craft Wondrous Items could craft himself a pair of Blessed Spellbooks for 12,500gp and, paying only the viewing fees of wizard spells thereafter, could learn every core wizard spell in the game for a measly 52,405gp. That's not even counting the spells you get for free at level up, which would substantially reduce this value.

So, if your spellbook got burnt to ash and you had no backups, you could still learn every wizard spell in the core rulebook for 64,405gp.

Last I checked, that is less than 10% of a 20h-level characters total wealth. A small, small fraction of your level's starting funds in exchange for unlimited power.

What's more, once you've accomplished this simple task, you could make backup copies for a measly 12,500gp! In fact, you could make no less than two sets of backup copies and STILL be under 10% of your starting funds!

Spell Mastery I spit upon you.

;P

EDIT: What makes this even better, is that the cost is only a fraction of your starting funds throughout most of your career if you only focus on learning the spells you are capable of casting.

LazarX, Yesterday, 10:49 AM
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Kierato wrote:

The cost of 2 Blessed books (Otherwise you would need 17 normal spell books (OK, 16.5).

There's also the cost involved in getting ACCESS to the spell. "What you think you're going to look at my books for FREE!!!!" I believe there were suggested guidelinses in at least d20 on how much they would charge for the privilege.

Mr Whos, Yesterday, 11:01 AM
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Plot-mask avatar

Adding spells to a blessed book doesn't cost anything if you copy it from another book, if I'm remembering correct. So you have to be good freid's with a alot of wizards from the acdamey of korvosa.
The wizard in my party just trades spells with with every wizard that he meets.

Ravingdork, Yesterday, 11:07 AM
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Raegos Final avatar

LazarX wrote:

Kierato wrote:

The cost of 2 Blessed books (Otherwise you would need 17 normal spell books (OK, 16.5).

There's also the cost involved in getting ACCESS to the spell. "What you think you're going to look at my books for FREE!!!!" I believe there were suggested guidelinses in at least d20 on how much they would charge for the privilege.

Who needs guidelines from another system? The rules exist right here in Pathfinder. You can find them on page 219 of the core rulebook. In short...

2.5gp per 0-level spell
5gp per 1st-level spell
20gp per 2nd-level spell
45gp per 3rd-level spell
80gp per 4th-level spell
125gp per 5th-level spell
180gp per 6th-level spell
245gp per 7th-level spell
320gp per 8th-level spell
405gp per 9th-level spell

LazarX, Yesterday, 11:09 AM
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Mr Whos wrote:

Adding spells to a blessed book doesn't cost anything if you copy it from another book, if I'm remembering correct. So you have to be good freid's with a alot of wizards from the acdamey of korvosa.
The wizard in my party just trades spells with with every wizard that he meets.

I always went by the Greyhawk assumption that Wizards would start out hostile to the idea and it would take a fair amount of cash to change their attitudes. And some spells simply would not be shared period.

Ravingdork, Yesterday, 11:18 AM
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Raegos Final avatar

LazarX wrote:

Mr Whos wrote:

Adding spells to a blessed book doesn't cost anything if you copy it from another book, if I'm remembering correct. So you have to be good freid's with a alot of wizards from the acdamey of korvosa.
The wizard in my party just trades spells with with every wizard that he meets.

I always went by the Greyhawk assumption that Wizards would start out hostile to the idea and it would take a fair amount of cash to change their attitudes. And some spells simply would not be shared period.

I think of it as gun enthusiasts, martial arts experts, or something similar. They may be willing to trade secrets and such, and are generally willing to do so, but they aren't going to do so if they think the other person is crazy or might use the newly gained power for ill.

I mean there should always be role-playing to trade spells with a NPC. and the wizard in my party is a hero of the land and isnt crazy, and other lower level wizard in the land look up to this wizard and come to him to trade spells. So long as the PC makes a good name for himself and is well liked it shouldnt be to hard to trade spells.
Also in the end wizards are wizards they all want more power! crazy or not

[Mathius]

Bumping this since many new spell have come out since then.

[Mathius]

Is there a search option somewhere that will tell me how many spells of each level there are? I do not want to actually count all of them if I do not have to.

[Lifat]

@Mathius... You do realize that the numbers generated was for the spells in the core rulebook only right? If you want any spells outside that it gets significantly more expensive.

I don't know if there are any spell databases that makes a full list of sor/wiz spells with a count on it aswell. There are plenty of sites that allow a full view of every single sor/wiz spell in the game, but you would have to count them manually.

[Glutton]

Cypher Script I say.

[Glutton]

Lifat wrote:

@Mathius... You do realize that the numbers generated was for the spells in the core rulebook only right? If you want any spells outside that it gets significantly more expensive.

I don't know if there are any spell databases that makes a full list of sor/wiz spells with a count on it aswell. There are plenty of sites that allow a full view of every single sor/wiz spell in the game, but you would have to count them manually.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/tools/advanced-spell-search

Matches: 1213.

if you want to parse them by level you can just search by level

[Lifat]

MAJOR EDIT. I changed to a site using more books and easier math :P
Note that I used THIS PAGE as my source on the 25th of january 2015, so the numbers are probably going to change in the future as more books come out.
Also note that the list does NOT include third party spells.

0-lvl spells Total: 30 spells
01 Abjuration
02 Conjuration
03 Divination
01 Enchantment
08 Evocation
02 Illusion
04 Necromancy
07 Transmutation
02 Universal

1st lvl spells Total: 169 spells
19 Abjuration
20 Conjuration
18 Divination
12 Enchantment
11 Evocation
17 Illusion
12 Necromancy
60 Transmutation
00 Universal

2nd lvl spells Total: 211 spells
19 Abjuration
26 Conjuration
17 Divination
15 Enchantment
26 Evocation
20 Illusion
26 Necromancy
62 Transmutation
00 Universal

3rd lvl spells Total: 209 spells
20 Abjuration
25 Conjuration
19 Divination
16 Enchantment
28 Evocation
15 Illusion
23 Necromancy
61 Transmutation
02 Universal

4th lvl spells Total: 157 spells
17 Abjuration
20 Conjuration
08 Divination
18 Enchantment
20 Evocation
13 Illusion
22 Necromancy
38 Transmutation
01 Universal

5th lvl spells Total: 134 spells
12 Abjuration
21 Conjuration
07 Divination
10 Enchantment
11 Evocation
12 Illusion
18 Necromancy
42 Transmutation
01 Universal

6th lvl spells Total: 101 spells
09 Abjuration
14 Conjuration
07 Divination
10 Enchantment
14 Evocation
05 Illusion
12 Necromancy
30 Transmutation
00 Universal

7th lvl spells Total: 86 spells
10 Abjuration
18 Conjuration
03 Divination
06 Enchantment
10 Evocation
06 Illusion
09 Necromancy
23 Transmutation
01 Universal

8th lvl spells Total: 61 spells
08 Abjuration
13 Conjuration
04 Divination
10 Enchantment
06 Evocation
03 Illusion
08 Necromancy
09 Transmutation
00 Universal

9th lvl spells Total: 55 spells
09 Abjuration
13 Conjuration
01 Divination
06 Enchantment
05 Evocation
02 Illusion
09 Necromancy
08 Transmutation
02 Universal

In total there are 1213 spell
Abjuration is 124 spells and is 10.2% of all spells
Conjuration is 172 spells and is 14.2% of all spells
Divination is 087 spells and is 07.2% of all spells
Enchantment is 104 spells and is 08.6% of all spells
Evocation is 139 spells and is 11.5% of all spells
Illusion is 095 spells and is 07.8% of all spells
Necromancy is 143 spells and is 11.8% of all spells
Transmutation is 340 spells and is 28.0% of all spells
Universal is 009 spells and is 00.7% of all spells

To actually find out how much it costs to know all spells we have to make some assumptions on how you go about it. In the following cost I will assume only blessed books used and that the character can actually make all of them himself. I will also assume that you get 2 known spells per level, and I will assume a starting intelligence of 20. On top of that I will assume that you can buy access to other wizards spellbooks at standard rates. If you cannot fulfill all these assumptions it will be more expensive (And I assume that you can't because starting out with a blessed book that you made yourself is highly unrealistic :P)

First I'll find out how many blessed books you actually need:
30+169+(211*2)+(209*3)+(157*4)+(134*5)+(101*6)+(86*7)+(61*8)+(55*9)=4737 pages used. That means 5 blessed books. Price tag is 5*6250 = 31250 gp.

Lets pay for the cost of looking over the shoulder of another wizard to copy his spells assuming that you yourself is a 20th lvl wizard:
(159*5)+(207*20)+(205*45)+(153*80)+(130*125)+(97*180)+(82*245)+(57*320)+(51 *405) = 119095 gp.
In grand total to know all spells assuming the shennanigans I already mentioned: 31250gp + 119095 gp = 150345 gp.
That is 17.1% of a lvl 20th's starting wealth to know all wizard spells.

Also... HOLY WALL OF TEXT.... And I need to get a life :P

[Lifat]

Note that if you take the feat Cypher script to save on cash it will save you 12500gp (the cost of 2 blessed books)... That is assuming that you also have craft wondrous items (and it would be silly not to because that feat alone saves you a ton of cash even if only counting the blessed books).

[Mathius]

Thank you so much!

I guess I can not afford all the spells as easily as I thought. Oh well.

Great break down and easy to modify for less spells now that I have the data.

[Mnasyllus]

What about his costs, socially ... hygenically, uhhh, has he ever thought to create his own spells? or seek treatment for his apparent OCD? Keep us posted

[Mathius]

Is more of thought exercise but I tend to think the many high level wizards are OCD.

[Lifat]

Personally speaking I tend to have between 7 and 15 spells known per spell lvl with a wizard with the lower level spells having more then the higher level spells.
I doubt I'd ever want to pay the gold it would take to learn all spells... Even if you only include the CRB.

[Legowaffles]

I calculated this out once, up to, and including, the time necessary to scribe those spells into the books. Sadly, I don't seem to have that textfile anymore.

It's actually pretty cheap (gold wise) to do if you use Blessed Books though.

[Jennica Fortune]

Why not take it a step further like Baba Yaga? Throw spell research into the mix, and you too can have every single arcane and divine spell in the game.

[Legowaffles]

Jennica Fortune wrote:

Why not take it a step further like Baba Yaga? Throw spell research into the mix, and you too can have every single arcane and divine spell in the game.

It's a pity spell research time (1 Week/Spell Level iirc) would make it literally impossible if you weren't immune to aging in some fashion.

[Aelryinth]

Keep in mind also that you can only copy one spell a day.

Copying even all the core spells would take you more then a year, and that's with no adventuring.

making a copy? There's a reason you have apprentices!

==Aelryinth

[Legowaffles]

Aelryinth wrote:

Keep in mind also that you can only copy one spell a day.

Copying even all the core spells would take you more then a year, and that's with no adventuring.

making a copy? There's a reason you have apprentices!

==Aelryinth

I was not aware of this. Can you give me a link? I was under the assumption is was 1 Hour/Spell Level (minimum 1 Hours), with a maximum of 8 Hours of Scribing / Day (similar to the crafting rules).

[baconwing]

Aelryinth wrote:

Keep in mind also that you can only copy one spell a day.

Copying even all the core spells would take you more then a year, and that's with no adventuring.

making a copy? There's a reason you have apprentices!

==Aelryinth

I dont think this is right. you can only make 1 scroll per day, as with crafting any magical device. otherwise it would be pointless to play a wizard.

"Guys I found the spellbook of the mighty elminster! I'm going to be the most powerful wizard in all of faerun!"

party replies - "........uhhhh, okay, see you next year some time?"

[Ashram]

A. There is no limit to how many spells per day you can scribe into your spellbook, provided you have materials and time. Nowhere in the Arcane Magical Writings section of the Magic chapter does it say there is a limit.

B. There is also no limit to the amount of time you can spend scribing a spell into your spellbook. The "maximum 8 hours per day" that Legowaffles mentioned is for legitimate mundane and magical crafting, not for scribing spells into a spellbook.

[master_marshmallow]

I want to know the Blessed Book final costs with Cypher Script as a factor. Let's also not forget that on that list is the option of Create Demiplane, which has with it the ability to create your own [Dragon Ball Z] hyperbolic time chamber [/Dragon Ball Z] meaning that time is less of a factor if your plane has flowing time. As a side note, it also makes a fifteen minute adventuring day a much easier feat. You do have to worry about aging effects.

[Lifat]

master_marshmallow wrote:

I want to know the Blessed Book final costs with Cypher Script as a factor. Let's also not forget that on that list is the option of Create Demiplane, which has with it the ability to create your own [Dragon Ball Z] hyperbolic time chamber [/Dragon Ball Z] meaning that time is less of a factor if your plane has flowing time. As a side note, it also makes a fifteen minute adventuring day a much easier feat. You do have to worry about aging effects.

Not sure what you mean by "final cost of a blessed book with cypher script"...

If you mean what it costs to learn every wizard spell in the game with blessed books and cypher scripts, then I already did that calculation in my wall of text reply in this very thread. Cypher Script is actually not that cost effective when combined with blessed books, because it only reduces the amount of blessed books you need, and it only reduces that amount by two books. Cypher Script only really shines when you don't want to use blessed books, but that would be stupid, because even if you fill up your blessed books with the lowest level spells in the game it is still much more cost efficient than cypher script. (Remember that there are "only" 199 0-1 lvl wizard spells in the game and as soon as a big portion of spells in the book is 2nd+ it is the most cost effective thing)

[Rikkan]

What would the price be if you used secret page, to reduce the scribing costs?

[Lifat]

Rikkan wrote:

What would the price be if you used secret page, to reduce the scribing costs?

Secret page has no actual reduction of scribing costs, regardless it would be pointless to reduce scribing costs, because when using blessed book there are no scribing costs. But it could be used to save on space in said blessed book in which case it would reduce the amount of blessed books into half, and half of 5 round up is 3 assuming not also using cypher script. If cypher script is also used, then you would only need 2 blessed books. As I said in my post, it would be ridiculous not to take CWI so you would save half market price of 1-2 blessed books with secret page (depending on cypher script or not), but you run the risk of it being dispelled and you loosing access to the hidden spell(s) known.

[Aelryinth]

It takes you 1 hour per spell level to learn a spell, if you make the spellcraft check.

================

(arcana) checks.

Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook

Once a wizard understands a new spell, he can record it into his spellbook.

Time: The process takes 1 hour per spell level. Cantrips (0 levels spells) take 30 minutes to record.

Space in the Spellbook: A spell takes up one page of the spellbook per spell level. Even a 0-level spell (cantrip) takes one page. A spellbook has 100 pages.

Materials and Costs: The cost for writing a new spell into a spellbook depends on the level of the spell, as noted on the following table. Note that a wizard does not have to pay these costs in time or gold for spells he gains for free at each new level.

Spell Level

Writing Cost

0 5 gp
1 10 gp
2 40 gp
3 90 gp
4 160 gp
5 250 gp
6 360 gp
7 490 gp
8 640 gp
9 810 gp

=====================

So, it takes you an hour per spell level to learn the initial spell, and an hour per spell level to copy the spell.

Which will, in the end, cost a major crapload of time. Especially if you want to make a spare. If we assume an 8 hour workday of copying spells, you're potentially looking at years to make a full set of spellbooks + a backup copy.

Sorry, the 1 spell/day was indeed a reference to scrolls.

==Aelryinth

[Aelryinth]

master_marshmallow wrote:

I want to know the Blessed Book final costs with Cypher Script as a factor. Let's also not forget that on that list is the option of Create Demiplane, which has with it the ability to create your own [Dragon Ball Z] hyperbolic time chamber [/Dragon Ball Z] meaning that time is less of a factor if your plane has flowing time. As a side note, it also makes a fifteen minute adventuring day a much easier feat. You do have to worry about aging effects.

Double fast time will help, sure, but going from a year to six months is still a really long time.

And another 50k in Blessed Books.

==Aelryinth

[Senko]

So maybe take treeants guide to wizards spell list and then add the free spells to cheer pick ones you like?