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Will the PC only be able to attack at 20', or will 15' also be allowed? For intentional attacks, 20' only is a narrow ring of availability for combo attacks like Whirlwind and Great Cleave, so not a huge problem there.
AoO's will happen often and fierce. A Hig Dex and Combat Reflexes would be a great help there.
Otherwise, I can't think of a lot of impact. The ring of attack widens to a 5'-10' circle with a non-reach weapon.
Not "martial" in the full BAB sense, but I have a large Giant (homebrew/Arcana Unearthed) Alchemist in my weekly game. He can hit pretty hard, but ends up the target a lot of the time, which he is not really built for. This last week he went full on Huge, and it was helpful in avoiding attacks, but didn't really lock anything down (there were only 2 opponents, a 3 headed large animated stone snake statue, and a medusa). If anything, it's a challenge for me, the DM, to make sure corridors are wide enough, etc. He ended up getting petrified by the medusa, and the rest of the party had to sail back to the last city they visited, then back tot eh under water city where the giant's petrified form was located to un-enchant him, as they just flat out could not get his Large sized stone body out of the chamber he was in. A medium creature was taken out with the use of some rope fairly easily.
So over all, having the Large party member isn't that big a game changer, even at their level (6). And I'm an evil enough DM that I can work in all sorts of stuff to challenge a reach fighter and stay fully within story line. Obscuring mist is only 1st level after all.
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reach weapons + armor spikes +enlarge
so they threaten 5',10',15' and 20'
it is brutal, but not unstoppably brutal.
just have enemies run around him, out of his range or make acrobatics checks to not get the AoO. he doesn't look like someone you wanna be with in 20 feet of. archers need to make him a primary target (probably after casters) and melee's need to position themselves intelligently.
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Fighter/Barbarian build + Enlarge + Whirlwind attack = CARNAGE
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Fighter type + Enlarge + MonkeyGrip for large weapon + Whirlwind Attack + Vampiric weapon = BROKEN AWESOMENESS
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.I speak from experience. I'm DMing a game. We are playing Pathfinder but I allowed a lot of 3.5 material like monkeygrip and vampiric weapons. The ridiculously strong barbarian with monkeygrip, a large greatsword, and a potion of enlarge is very hard to beat. He has 15' reach when he is enlarged. Letting him have vampiric on the weapon really saves the cleric from having to heal him a lot, especially when he uses whirlwind attack. It is rather silly how much damage he puts out. Let's not talk about combat reflexes and AoOs. it will make me cry.
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Unless you're ready for your enlarged, reach wielding PC to really dominate the battlefield, you may want to have some enemy spellcasters with dispell magic to mix it up a bit (but not all the time)
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Let's see...reach, eh?
1. EWP: Scorpion Whip. Unlike the Spiked Gauntlets or Armor Spikes/Reach Weapon combo, now you only need to magically enchant ONE weapon that you can use for reach AND adjacent, as well as tripping and disarming! Plus, it's finesse-able, which is nice to crank up the dex for those million AoO's you'll get.
2. Aberrant Sorcerer levels? Ok, it's crappy to go caster for fighting, but you could just dip three levels to get reach and then Eldrich Knight later to make up for it. I would only take this route though if you can convince your DM that combat maneuvers are touch attacks technically (since they ignore armor). Then you can Self-Buff that size into play
3. If 3.X stuff is ok, man-oh-man, you've got options. As mentioned earlier, Monkey Grip is fun, and Strongarm Bracers (I think that's what they're called), and Powerful Build or Large Size races. Please save me the "they don't stack" thing. I'm giving three different choices, not one big combo. (No DM will let you get away with that more than once...but TRUST ME, it's fun when they do.)
4. How has nobody mentioned Lunge yet?!
Hehehe. I just realized that if 1-4 were allowed (with their quirks) and all stacked, you'd have a reach of:
Base 10ft from Large Size or Powerful Build
+5ft from Monkey Gripping a huge size weapon
+5ft cause it's actually a gargantuan weapon thanks to the bracers
+5ft cause tripping is "touching"
+5ft cause a whip is reach
+5ft cause of Lunge
= 35ft reach
Somehow mix in Whirlwind and Great Cleave. You are now a tornado. You are also playing with a seriously stupid DM to allow this.
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.Watch out!
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Fighter/Barbarian build + Enlarge + Whirlwind attack = CARNAGE
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Fighter type + Enlarge + MonkeyGrip for large weapon + Whirlwind Attack + Vampiric weapon = BROKEN AWESOMENESS
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.I speak from experience. I'm DMing a game. We are playing Pathfinder but I allowed a lot of 3.5 material like monkeygrip and vampiric weapons. The ridiculously strong barbarian with monkeygrip, a large greatsword, and a potion of enlarge is very hard to beat. He has 15' reach when he is enlarged. Letting him have vampiric on the weapon really saves the cleric from having to heal him a lot, especially when he uses whirlwind attack. It is rather silly how much damage he puts out. Let's not talk about combat reflexes and AoOs. it will make me cry.
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Unless you're ready for your enlarged, reach wielding PC to really dominate the battlefield, you may want to have some enemy spellcasters with dispell magic to mix it up a bit (but not all the time)
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just curious, how is it 15?
large non-reach weapons dont give reach, and large is only a 10' reach
just curious, how is it 15?
large non-reach weapons dont give reach, and large is only a 10' reach
Size categories double the physical size of an item. Merely measuring the item may turn some into reach.
Build the guy to trip/disarm foes... Things get nauseating quickly.
Size categories double the physical size of an item. Merely measuring the item may turn some into reach.just curious, how is it 15?
large non-reach weapons dont give reach, and large is only a 10' reach
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Darn it, the boards ate my initial reply.
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anyway, I was trying to say, "Hmmm.... I never thought of that!"
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If he was using a large long sword instead of a normal long sword then you're right. I would not grant him reach.
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However, in my mind I was envisioning a 6'6" barbarian using a great sword. A normal two-handed great sword is already 4'-6' long. Now make that a "large" great sword so it's 8'-12' long. I realize this seems pretty silly but it makes more sense if the original owner was a 12' tall giant.
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He wanted this build so I suggested he take the 'monkey grip' feat and I imposed a -2 penalty to attack on anything that wasn't adjacent to him (10' out). When he drinks a potion of enlarge person his reach jumps to 15'. That may not be RAW but it makes sense to me given his height and the length of the weapon.
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Unfortunately, I just realized right now that I forgot the monkey grip feat already imposes a -2 penalty to attack. Thus my house rule needs to change so that it's -2 to attack adjacent creatures and -4 to attack at 10' out (my attempt at some sort of balancing factor, not that it matters given his ridiculous strength).
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What do you think?
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Size categories double the physical size of an item. Merely measuring the item may turn some into reach.just curious, how is it 15?
large non-reach weapons dont give reach, and large is only a 10' reach
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Darn it, the boards ate my initial reply.
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anyway, I was trying to say, "Hmmm.... I never thought of that!"
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If he was using a large long sword instead of a normal long sword then you're right. I would not grant him reach.
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However, in my mind I was envisioning a 6'6" barbarian using a great sword. A normal two-handed great sword is already 4'-6' long. Now make that a "large" great sword so it's 8'-12' long. I realize this seems pretty silly but it makes more sense if the original owner was a 12' tall giant.
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He wanted this build so I suggested he take the 'monkey grip' feat and I imposed a -2 penalty to attack on anything that wasn't adjacent to him (10' out). When he drinks a potion of enlarge person his reach jumps to 15'. That may not be RAW but it makes sense to me given his height and the length of the weapon.
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Unfortunately, I just realized right now that I forgot the monkey grip feat already imposes a -2 penalty to attack. Thus my house rule needs to change so that it's -2 to attack adjacent creatures and -4 to attack at 10' out (my attempt at some sort of balancing factor, not that it matters given his ridiculous strength).
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What do you think?
personally if its not a reach weapon you're not getting reach IMHO. thats what feats like lunge are for, and why spiked chain lost reach.
to each their own, but it wouldn't fly with me, just lets them twink out more than necessary. you either weild a reach weapon and deal with it or don't and deal with that
Reach goes off the person's size, not the weapon's size*. There is a huge weapon(that can be used by medium sized people) in the arms and equipment guide, but it does not give reach as an example.
*I know it may not make sense, but them be the rules.
I played a martial character in core-only 3.5e game a while back.
He had a Spiked Chain, Improved Trip, Stand Still (for those pesky huge creatures with crap Reflex), and eventually had a belt made that had a permanent Enlarge Person effect.
I eventually had in-game reason to go with Psychic Warrior (exposure to psionics), and was going to have the potential for being Huge and have a pounce like ability.
Oh yeah, and I had levels in Barbarian, Fighter, Ranger, Rogue, Commander (in-game reasons, and part of the campaign), and eventually Psychic Warrior (also in-game reasons). All within the right amount of levels for no xp penalty, except for picking up psychic warrior (since I got it so late).
I had a decent skillset for tracking and knowledge/social skills to do things out of combat, and while in combat I made a very large footprint of shutting creatures down.
You know what happened?
The Rogue ended up dealing the most damage (granted, with my help flanking and tripping).
The Wizard still had better control and Save or Suck potential than me (indispensable really).
The Cleric was completely necessary, in both healing capacity, and other respects (such as buffing me so I won't die, and dismissals, etc).
I ended up barely keeping up with the others in versatility and power. All my skills and reach were quashed when fighting outsiders that could teleport, or dragons, or mages with telekinesis, etc.
At lower levels, I didn't fully have all my abilities kitted out, and at higher levels, encounters were designed to neuter them.
I shone in my niche, but I was hardly game-stopping.
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Now Pathfinder might be different (with Combat Maneuvers, skill consolidations and class skill changes, and class abilities), but honestly, I'd still allow it as a DM.
If someone is enlarged and then given permanancy, and they have kids with a similar creature, the result would be a giant creature that could have enlarge put on them. My gaming group tried to play savige tide with two giant orcs who also had other templates. In any case, someone in the party kept having to use a wand of diminish to get them through corridores. They lost interest because they were too uber.
Pity. Now we are playing Rise of the Runelords by the books.
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If someone is enlarged and then given permanancy, and they have kids with a similar creature, the result would be a giant creature that could have enlarge put on them. My gaming group tried to play savige tide with two giant orcs who also had other templates. In any case, someone in the party kept having to use a wand of diminish to get them through corridores. They lost interest because they were too uber.
Pity. Now we are playing Rise of the Runelords by the books.
i'd say once momma popped out the kid it would shrink back to normal baby size, since its no longer in their posession or part of them. like if you got enlarge permanencied, then set down the weapon that also enlarged it would shrink back
Size categories double the physical size of an item. Merely measuring the item may turn some into reach.just curious, how is it 15?
large non-reach weapons dont give reach, and large is only a 10' reach
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Darn it, the boards ate my initial reply.
.
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anyway, I was trying to say, "Hmmm.... I never thought of that!"
.
If he was using a large long sword instead of a normal long sword then you're right. I would not grant him reach.
.
However, in my mind I was envisioning a 6'6" barbarian using a great sword. A normal two-handed great sword is already 4'-6' long. Now make that a "large" great sword so it's 8'-12' long. I realize this seems pretty silly but it makes more sense if the original owner was a 12' tall giant.
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He wanted this build so I suggested he take the 'monkey grip' feat and I imposed a -2 penalty to attack on anything that wasn't adjacent to him (10' out). When he drinks a potion of enlarge person his reach jumps to 15'. That may not be RAW but it makes sense to me given his height and the length of the weapon.
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Unfortunately, I just realized right now that I forgot the monkey grip feat already imposes a -2 penalty to attack. Thus my house rule needs to change so that it's -2 to attack adjacent creatures and -4 to attack at 10' out (my attempt at some sort of balancing factor, not that it matters given his ridiculous strength).
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What do you think?
It's actually even funnier if you think about it. When you drink the potion of enlarge person your equipment grows with you. Large Stone giant sized greatsword becomes a Huge Storm giant sized greatsword probably around 15-20 feet in length. I would say you are right to give him the 15 foot reach.
I'm toying with fighter/cleric with enlarge as domain spell. Did a test combat with figh4/clerc4 vs 10 1 st level Fighters.
Characters got initiative and Enlarged (holding long spear). Combat Reflexes and AoO nailed 3 straight off.
This is one of those squiggly knots of the rules where some of the changes to Pathfinder caused a wrinkle in how to adjudicate stuff.
The Enlarge Person spell's description wasn't changed that much from 3.5e. The problem being, now Giants are humanoids with the giant subtype.
So the spell assumes only Large size (in that it completely ignores the fact that a Large humanoid might become Huge).
Second, there was a table for Reach as relating to Size and Shape, however that was not carried over into any of the new monster sections of the Pathfinder core rules bestiary.
The table showed that a Large Biped had 10' reach, while a Huge Biped would have 15' reach. Quadrapeds being shorter in reach on the same sizes (unless they had extenuating circumstances, such as a dragon's long neck making their bite have reach).
All the monsters in the Bestiary conform to this.
So a Large giant being enlarged by the Enlarge Person spell (which they now qualify for), would become Huge, and have 15' reach (as their reach is supposed to be extended to the appropriate range for their size and form: Huge Biped).
The fact that the weapon is that long to begin with simply reinforces the idea that a Huge Biped should have 15' reach, but is actually besides the point, as the rules should be emphasizing the reach anyways.
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Hopefully this loss of reach/size chart can be rectified in a future bestiary release (or a later reprinting of the book?).
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It's actually even funnier if you think about it. When you drink the potion of enlarge person your equipment grows with you. Large Stone giant sized greatsword becomes a Huge Storm giant sized greatsword probably around 15-20 feet in length. I would say you are right to give him the 15 foot reach.
so all huge creatures weilding ANY 2handed weapon for their size gets extended reach? a human has 5' reach with a dagger or a 6 ft sword, but a giant with a size appropriate weapon gets extra reach by that logic.
if you want cloud giants with massive zone control, without reach weapons, thats your prerogative, but thats just unbalancing IMHO
Yeah, it has nothing to do with the size of the weapon. Ultimately, his reach goes up because he has longer arms. Large to Huge goes from 10' reach to 15' reach.
Or it should.
All monsters in the bestiary conform to this (keeping in mind non-tall shapes like quadruped or oozes, etc).
If the giant had a dagger or used his fists, he'd have 15' reach as Huge.
Aha! I was looking in the wrong book. For some reason I thought it would be in the Bestiary rules... but it's in the standard combat rules.
Good to know it's still there.
Yeah, it has nothing to do with the size of the weapon. Ultimately, his reach goes up because he has longer arms. Large to Huge goes from 10' reach to 15' reach.
Or it should.
All monsters in the bestiary conform to this (keeping in mind non-tall shapes like quadruped or oozes, etc).
If the giant had a dagger or used his fists, he'd have 15' reach as Huge.
Yeah, but if a human is, by some strange training and magic item enhancements, wielding a 20ft long sword, that guy has 20ft reach. It's just RAW rules-lawyering to say otherwise.