Rogue Alternate Class Features


Homebrew and House Rules


I've got a very particular type of character I want to play, and I'm wondering if the following class features would be considered fair:

  • Bardic Knowledge for Trapfinding and Trap Sense?
  • Canny Defense for Uncanny Dodge?
  • Insightful Strike and/or Precise Strike for Sneak Attack?


I'd have to look more at what those do, but off the top of my head I'd say no. Some of those are prestige class abilities, so swapping them for low-level base class abilities might be unbalanced. Also you lower the min level for a character to get them which might mess with the balance of the prestige class abilities as well.

For instance, uncanny dodge is an ability that you benefit from every surprise round that you get attacked. Canny defense is an ability that benefits you every round that you get attacked. You benefit a lot more often from canny defense than from uncanny dodge. Also, uncanny dodge doesn't increase your stats; rather it reduces a penalty (for being surprised or having a low initiative). Canny defense adds your Int bonus to AC increasing the stat from what would otherwise be possible for a rogue at that level.

This is the kind of trade-off that you should look at when making custom archetypes. Hope this helps.


On the other hand, the rogue is so weak that these will be fine.


Nickademus42 wrote:
I'd have to look more at what those do, but off the top of my head I'd say no. Some of those are prestige class abilities, so swapping them for low-level base class abilities might be unbalanced. Also you lower the min level for a character to get them which might mess with the balance of the prestige class abilities as well.

Insightful Strike is a 3rd level base class ability. As far as Precise Strike goes, that is trading +1d6 damage under certain conditions for +1 under a much wider set of conditions. It's hardly game-breaking, though I can see where applying both at once might be considered excessive.

Canny Defense was the one I was worried about, mainly. You're right that Uncanny Dodge doesn't seem to be enough to justify it, but it's no different from adding Wisdom or Charisma to AC, which multiple base classes already allow.


There's nothing wrong with those tradeoffs. You'll be fine.


Maybe something like this :

Replace SA with Weapon Finesse and Precise Strike

Replace Trap Finding with Bardic Knowledge

Replace 2nd level rogue talent and Uncanny dodge with canny defense, when you would usually get improved uncanny dodge you get uncanny dodge.

Replace trap sense with :

3rd level intelligence bonus to confirm critical hits.

6th level intelligence bonus to damage on critical hits, this damage is not multiplied.

9th level reroll any save 1/day with intelligence modifier as a bonus.

12th level reroll any skill or ability check 1/day with intelligence modifier as a bonus (including initiative)

15th level reroll save twice per day

18th level reroll skill or ability check twice per day

Replace 10th level rogue talent with a bonus combat feat, the rogue counts as a fighter 1/2 the rogue's level for the purpose of qualifying for feats and from now on can swap out rogue talents for bonus combat feats.


Okay, now I'm thinking:

  • Bardic Knowledge for Trapfinding.
  • Insightful Strike for the first die of Sneak Attack, and Precise Strike +1 for each die thereafter. Obviously this invalidates Master Strike, but there's no need to replace it.
  • Monk AC bonus (based on Int) for Armor Proficiency, Trap Sense, Uncanny Dodge, and Greater Uncanny Dodge.


Viktyr Korimir wrote:

Okay, now I'm thinking:

  • Bardic Knowledge for Trapfinding.
  • Insightful Strike for the first die of Sneak Attack, and Precise Strike +1 for each die thereafter. Obviously this invalidates Master Strike, but there's no need to replace it.
  • Monk AC bonus (based on Int) for Armor Proficiency, Trap Sense, Uncanny Dodge, and Greater Uncanny Dodge.

Insightful strike is too much to give out as a 1st level class ability unless you cap the bonus by the number of class levels of rogue you possess, much like canny defense.

Otherwise it should be fine, I'd possibly add the ability to use your class level for purposes of calculating CMB rather than your BAB using fancy maneuvers seem to fit a witty character, I think the precise strike has significant restrictions to allow this small boon without additional cost.


Remco Sommeling wrote:
Insightful strike is too much to give out as a 1st level class ability unless you cap the bonus by the number of class levels of rogue you possess, much like canny defense.

Yes, I think I agree. Cap Insightful Strike by class level, and then give +1 Precise Strike for each die of Sneak Attack?


Well, Insightful Strike aside I'm aiming more for Factotum than Swashbuckler.

Would Brains over Brawn be suitable for a Rogue talent?


Actually, thinking about it, I think this would be better handled through Rogue Talents than through Archetypes.

If Canny Offense were a Rogue Talent with Finesse Rogue as a prerequisite, it could only be obtained by a 4th level Rogue, or a 2nd level Rogue who spent a feat on Extra Talent. Likewise, if Canny Defense requires Canny Offense, the earliest you can obtain it is 4th level; set it at half class level, and it's on parity with the Duelist ability.


Factotum Rogue Archetype:

Lose:
Trapfinding
Light Armor Proficiency
Trap Sense
Talents
Sneak Attack
Uncanny Dodge & Greater Uncanny Dodge

Gain:
Bardic Knowledge and Clever Explorer (as Archaeologist).
Spellcraft and all Knowledges as class skills.
Monk AC Bonus (Int-based)
Weapon Finesse at 1st.
Insightful Strike at 3rd.
Starting at 4th level, spellcasting as an Assassin of 1/2 class level with spells drawn from the Beguiler spell list. Caster level = class level -3, as per Ranger and Paladin.


Assuming this isn't complete and total garbage, does anyone have a good recommendation for a capstone?

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