two part thread
First if your using a whip in your offhand can you threaten enemies within 10ft with the whip and within 5ft with your main 1h hand weapon.
Assuming thats ok if an enemy moves up to attack you they have to move through a square you threaten to do so giving you an AoO on anyone who walks up to you. However which weapon can you use to make the AoO in this case, or do you get the choice ?.
although your weilding 2 weapons they don't hit at the same range so again I assume its not conisdered Two Weapon fighting, allowing you to use either as a single weapon with your normal BAB attack/s
and small little side point can you trade an AoO attack and make a trip attack instead ? or is that a houserule ?
Now assuming some or all of that can be applied what are people thoughts on which class would be best for this ?
Whips don't threaten, so no AoOs from it.
If you attack with both weapons (or some might say, utilize the extra attacks from two-weapon fighting) it counts as two weapon fighting, no matter the range/reach of each weapon. If you were to have a short sword and hand crossbow and used both in the same round, you would take TWF penalties.
Also, with AoOs, a creature can't provoke twice for the same action. That is, even if a creature moves through every single square you threaten, you only get one AoO against him. Now, if he were to do two different actions that provoked, such as movement and casting a spell, then you could make two AoOs. However, you need Combat Reflexes to make more than a single AoO in a round.
Assuming you are wielding two weapons that threaten, you can choose which weapon to make the AoO with. The attack, as you mentioned, would be at your full bonus regardless of which hand you used to attack with. Some GMs might enforce the TWF penalties, especially if you have been attacking with two weapons in previous rounds. (This is to further simulate that actions are more-or-less simultaneous rather than truly turn based.)
You can make an AoO trip attempt. Trips substitute a melee attack and are not their own action (like grappling). Keep in mind that it is debated whether or not you can trip someone who provokes for standing up.
Now, the best class for any combat maneuver seems to be fighter. They have the high BAB/CMB necessary to pull maneuvers off and have tons of feats to make sure to get all the bonuses. However, since bard is the only class I can think of that comes proficient out of the box with whip, it is also a solid consideration. It's the third type of bard listed in Treatmonk's guide to bards (the controller).
The whip is a reach weapon but works with special rules => you don't threaten with a whip and even provoke AoO when using it.
Nevertheless, concerning your other questions :
If an enemy leaves a square you threaten, he provokes an AoO but you must use the weapon that threatens him for this AoO.
When your are wielding 2 weapons with different reach, you have 2 options :
* the target can be hit with only one weapon : an ogre 10 ft from you and you are armed with whip and longsword => you can only attack with this weapon, you use a normal full-attack
* the target can be hit by both weapons (ogre 5ft away) => you can use the TWF rules to attack, with the appropriate penalties regarding the weapons you are using.
Yes you can make a trip during an AoO.
two part thread
First if your using a whip in your offhand can you threaten enemies within 10ft with the whip and within 5ft with your main 1h hand weapon.
Assuming thats ok if an enemy moves up to attack you they have to move through a square you threaten to do so giving you an AoO on anyone who walks up to you. However which weapon can you use to make the AoO in this case, or do you get the choice ?.
although your weilding 2 weapons they don't hit at the same range so again I assume its not conisdered Two Weapon fighting, allowing you to use either as a single weapon with your normal BAB attack/s
and small little side point can you trade an AoO attack and make a trip attack instead ? or is that a houserule ?
Now assuming some or all of that can be applied what are people thoughts on which class would be best for this ?
Now I hope I get this right...
The AoO is taken before the action which caused it is completed. This means in the situation above that the AoO is made at a distance of 10' so only a weapon with reach could make it.
I don't think whips can make AoO so in the situation above there would be no AoO as one weapon has no reach and the other doesn't threaten any squares
You are TWF and all penalties/benefits apply. You're attacking with both weapons in the same round. You're able to make a single Standard Action and a single Move Action in a round. A SA is one attack so either the whip or (I assume) sword. If you use both it is TWF. Range has nothing to do with it.
You can't make combat maneouvers during AoO so no trading for trips.
Seeing (from my view) nothing that you have suggested is allowed in RAW, I can't make a suggestion to what type of character would be best.
heh so basically I'd need to write a PrC to do it by giving it special rules.
heh how bout 2 handed ransuer made for a small race weilded in one hand with a 1h weapon in the offhand again going for the 10ft/5ft threatening
trying to find ways to effectily be a medium creature with true 10ft reach early on
heh so basically I'd need to write a PrC to do it by giving it special rules.
heh how bout 2 handed ransuer made for a small race weilded in one hand with a 1h weapon in the offhand again going for the 10ft/5ft threatening
trying to find ways to effectily be a medium creature with true 10ft reach early on
Yep you could use a ransuer one handed but you wouldn't get the fancy stuff. The SRD makes that clear. No matter how you look at it the ransuer to be used effectivly it needs to be used two-handed. You could attack with reach at a -2 penalty and no trip attacks because it can't be used effectivly. So TWF you would be -4/-2 on your BAB. Better just use a properly sized ransuer and a spiked gauntlet.
Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can't make optimum use of a weapon that isn't properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn't proficient with the weapon, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.
While a -2 penalty would apply, there is nothing that says the weapon loses its ability to trip or grant other special bits. All an inappropriately sized weapon does is impart a -2 penalty.
It infers it with the the line "can't make optimum use" to me it means you can flail away with it (at a -2 penalty to attack) but not any other stuff like brace, trip, disarm.
In other words would you be happy to have a PC brace with a two-handed weapon being used one handed?
Tridents are one-handed brace weapons, so I'd have no problem with it. Kurai is right though, it never says that a weapon loses special qualities. If it did, then inappropriately sized monk weapons couldn't be used in flurries since it would lose the "monk" quality. Heck, even reach weapons would no longer be reach weapons, since "reach" is a quality. I have a hard enough time explaining why a huge longsword doesn't grant reach, try explaining why a medium glaive does but a large one wouldn't since, by your reasoning, the special quality of "reach" is unusable if it isn't sized properly.
While a -2 penalty would apply, there is nothing that says the weapon loses its ability to trip or grant other special bits. All an inappropriately sized weapon does is impart a -2 penalty.It infers it with the the line "can't make optimum use" to me it means you can flail away with it (at a -2 penalty to attack) but not any other stuff like brace, trip, disarm.
In other words would you be happy to have a PC brace with a two-handed weapon being used one handed?
Do you also lose any bonus from a masterwork weapon? Does a halfling Paladin holding a normal sized Holy Avenger treat it as a +5 holy cold iron longsword, a +2 cold iron long sword, a cold iron long sword or just a long sword?
When the rules have fluff ("can't make optimum use") followed by a specific rule ("-2 penalty to attacks"), it seems a dangerous slope to try to add additional restrictions.
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While a -2 penalty would apply, there is nothing that says the weapon loses its ability to trip or grant other special bits. All an inappropriately sized weapon does is impart a -2 penalty.It infers it with the the line "can't make optimum use" to me it means you can flail away with it (at a -2 penalty to attack) but not any other stuff like brace, trip, disarm.
In other words would you be happy to have a PC brace with a two-handed weapon being used one handed?
By RAW, you only take a -2 penalty. Which perfectly demonstrates the 'can't make optimum use' line, since you are taking a penalty to using it. Optimum use would be no penalty.
You could take the phrase 'can't make optimum use' to a huge range of variables, from a very small penalty (maybe a -1) to a large penalty plus loss of all abilities on the weapon and always minimum damage (or something). As it stands, the book follows that line immediately with a -2 penalty, so it clarifies it for us. No further assumption is needed.
isn't a weapon 1 size category below yours considered to require 1 less hand to weild effectilvey ?
so a "small" ransuer weilded by a medium creature is a 1h weapon with reach ?
on another note would a scorpian whip that deals leathal damage threaten ?
slight tangent
are there any medium sized races that have a natural reach of 10 feet ?
You can't make combat maneouvers during AoO so no trading for trips.
Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that you could always substitute a trip, disarm, or sunder for an AoO.
And using a weapon in one hand for AoO and one in the other for an attack or full attack shouldn't incur the TWF penalty.
You can't make combat maneouvers during AoO so no trading for trips.
Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that you could always substitute a trip, disarm, or sunder for an AoO.
And using a weapon in one hand for AoO and one in the other for an attack or full attack shouldn't incur the TWF penalty.
The Jury is still out on it...
An attack of opportunity "interrupts" the normal flow of actions in the round. If an attack of opportunity is provoked, immediately resolve the attack of opportunity, then continue with the next character's turn (or complete the current turn, if the attack of opportunity was provoked in the midst of a character's turn).
Camp A: When the AoO is provoked you are still prone and therefore can't be tripped.
Camp B: The AoO is provoked after you have stood up so you can be.
The bolded section is the cause of confusion. Standing up from prone provokes so as soon as you start to stand (you are still prone remember) then the AoO is resolved but you can't trip. That is how I read it anyway. But like I said some say that the AoO is resolved after the action that has provoked the AoO has finished.
I'm with Camp A otherwise you'd have fighters rolling around on the ground whilst one person keeps them tripped and the others just bash. Nice for players but not nice when it is done to them.