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My party is lvl 4 now, and that ape wouldn't be hitting anything we fight with only a +8 reliably... It would be looking for at least 16s.I don't know about badgers, the Ape I mentioned probably would have done the same.
Let me see --
Animal Companion Ape at Druid level 5:
Size Large
Speed 30 ft., Climb 30 ft.
BAB +3
HP 35
AC 21 (+3 dex +4 Armor +5 natural armor -1 size)
Save Throws: Fort +6 Ref +7 Will +2
Attack bite +8 (1d6+8), 2 claws +8 (1d6+4) or Great Axe + 8 (3d6+12), Bite +3 (1d6+4)
Ability Scores Str 22, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 3, Wis 12, Cha 7
Special Qualities :low-light vision, scent, Evasion, Devotion
Feats: Light Armor Proficiency, Martial weapon proficiency(great axe), Power Attack
Skills; Linguistics 1 (-3), Acrobatics 2 (+7), Perception 2 (+6)On a critical hit with the axe the Ape here would do 9d6+36 with an average of 67.5 damage
Sheesh, what the hell is your DM pitting against you?
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I have a gnome summoner in my Kingmaker game who has a serpentine Eidolon he named Wang. So now he uses his Eidolon's name every chance he gets.
"I send my Wang in tail slap the kobolds."
"I'm going to fire at the spider while using my Wang as a meat-shield."
"Oh no! My Wang has been poisoned! Strength damage! Now Wang is flaccid..."
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Hehe, nope old dude. We don't play cross sex, if your a dude you play a dude, if your a chick you play a chick.So, what kind of zany eidolon/summoner characters have you guys come up with?Old elf with his big flurry cat friend. :)LOL.
If you had said an old lady who summoned cats, it would have been priceless XD
Yeah, I have a game like that too. I've never rp'd a chick before, so it doesn't bother me.
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I have a gnome summoner in my Kingmaker game who has a serpentine Eidolon he named Wang. So now he uses his Eidolon's name every chance he gets.
"I send my Wang in tail slap the kobolds."
"I'm going to fire at the spider while using my Wang as a meat-shield."
"Oh no! My Wang has been poisoned! Strength damage! Now Wang is flaccid..."
ROFLMAO! XD
My party is lvl 4 now, and that ape wouldn't be hitting anything we fight with only a +8 reliably... It would be looking for at least 16s.
I'm sorry did I give you the impression I was posting that for you?
Last night: 5th level party, 6 characters and an eidolon, fighting a CR7 vampire (65hp and Fast healing 5) and a spawn. None of the PCs has a magic silver weapon, so -10 to everything.Over 5 rounds, the vampire has taken a smattering of fire and force damage, scratches from the PCs and 27 points from the eidolon. It's only down about 20 HP because of its fast healing. Oh, the spawn died in round 2. Eidolon killed it in 2 hits, one of which was an AoO as the spawn ran within the eidolon's 10' reach.
On the eidolon's turn on round 5, critical hit with a (regular off-the-shelf) greataxe. 3d12+51. The fight is over.
Let's see your badger do that.
And I posted what I posted. Please note that my Ape there isn't optimized: He's simply swinging a large greataxe since that was what the post I was replying to had.
And honestly on your claim of needing a +16 at level 4 is simply highly unlikely as a fighter by himself while power attacking can just manage a +10 (6 str of 23 4 bab 1 weapon 1 weapon focus - 2 power attack), mixing in some barbarian only gets you up to a +12.
Truthfully for a animal companion with no buffs or magic + 8 isn't bad at all.
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So, what kind of zany eidolon/summoner characters have you guys come up with?
So far, my two Golarion Summoners have been a dude who is obsessed with how the ancient Thassilonians of the land of Eurythnia had enslaved / domesticated the local black dragon population as beasts of burden, and whose Eidolon will slowly take on increasingly black draconic traits, and a Brevoyan one who believes himself to be descended from vanished House Rorgavia, which had a pact with some red dragons, and whose Eidolon will become increasingly red draconic in appearance and abilities.
Unoriginal, but I was in a mood for dragon cohorts.
In the campaign setting (p 198) there's mention of a group called the Iridian Fold, and it could be fun to have the Eidolon and Summoner both be humanoids, visibly quite similar, and to change positions depending on their whims of the day, one wearing the veil, the other either wearing armor (or having skin that appears to be armor). Both would enter combat with appropriate weapons, and the Eidolon would have a few Spell-like abilities, making it harder to tell which is which...
The setting has tons of potential for ideas.
A 'linnorm king' from the land of the same name with his own 'tamed linnorm?'
A Qadishi dancing dervish with her genie lover?
A Chelaxian Hellbinder with a 'hell hound' or 'devilspawn' servant?
An Osirioni worshipper of Khepri, Apep or Wedjet with an Eidolon that resembles the appropriate diety (start with quadruped, for the beetle Khepri, adding legs, pincers, acid spit, winged flight, etc., or just use a serpentine form for the two snake/river gods)?
An Andoran whose horse, hound or eagle is 'more than it appears,' being a 'spirit of freedom' incarnate? (The eagle would be trickiest, perhaps starting out as a humanoid or serpentine form...)
A Nidali chain-lord, with a shackled 'chain devil' (humanoid, using spiked chain as a weapon)?
Irrisen? Winter Wolf-like Eidolon. Sargava? 'Awakened dire ape' Eidolon. Shoanti? 'Cinderpelt' quadruped. Numerian? 'Clockwork creature.' Azlanti gillman? Hentai tentacle-monster. Orc from Belkzen? War-boar quadruped. Gnoll from Katapesh? 'Dire Hyena.'
In the campaign setting (p 198) there's mention of a group called the Iridian Fold, and it could be fun to have the Eidolon and Summoner both be humanoids, visibly quite similar, and to change positions depending on their whims of the day, one wearing the veil, the other either wearing armor (or having skin that appears to be armor). Both would enter combat with appropriate weapons, and the Eidolon would have a few Spell-like abilities, making it harder to tell which is which...
I see I am not the only one that had that thought about the Iridian Fold
Can you post the Eilodon to make sure it was legally out together?
I suspect it wasn't, or possibly wasn't updated when the revised APGPT came out. But I don't really care to enforce that, because this isn't really my campaign. I'm just subbing for the regular GM who's taking a break from running.
He's got extra limbs as one of his evolutions. The eidolon does, I mean, not the other GM. And then one of the other players cited some rule that extra limbs gives you extra "virtual" strength when using a weapon... or something like that. I never heard of that rule, and if anyone knows about it, let me know. Anyway, that was when the other guy was GM'ing, so he let it stand, and I promised to honor all of his rulings.
I tried to reconstruct his eidol last night, and I got (for a 5th lvl summoner) at best a 20 STR, and I couldn't come up with proficiency in the greataxe without burning a feat. Which he might have done. Anyway, his character sheet lists the ediol as having a 22 STR, +15 to hit and +15 damage with a masterwork greataxe. Best I could recreate was +10 to hit and +7 damage, which would have totally changed the flavor of the combat.
If it were my campaign, I'd have demand a rebuild on the spot. Further complicating the mess was the fact that the player wasn't at the game, and he asked someone else to run him for the night.
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He's got extra limbs as one of his evolutions. The eidolon does, I mean, not the other GM. And then one of the other players cited some rule that extra limbs gives you extra "virtual" strength when using a weapon... or something like that. I never heard of that rule, and if anyone knows about it, let me know.
In theory, someone might have taken the '1.5 str bonus for using a one handed weapon in two hands' rule and tweaked it upwards for a one handed weapon wielded in three or four hands...
Can you post the Eilodon to make sure it was legally out together?I suspect it wasn't, or possibly wasn't updated when the revised APGPT came out. But I don't really care to enforce that, because this isn't really my campaign. I'm just subbing for the regular GM who's taking a break from running.
He's got extra limbs as one of his evolutions. The eidolon does, I mean, not the other GM. And then one of the other players cited some rule that extra limbs gives you extra "virtual" strength when using a weapon... or something like that. I never heard of that rule, and if anyone knows about it, let me know. Anyway, that was when the other guy was GM'ing, so he let it stand, and I promised to honor all of his rulings.
I tried to reconstruct his eidol last night, and I got (for a 5th lvl summoner) at best a 20 STR, and I couldn't come up with proficiency in the greataxe without burning a feat. Which he might have done. Anyway, his character sheet lists the ediol as having a 22 STR, +15 to hit and +15 damage with a masterwork greataxe. Best I could recreate was +10 to hit and +7 damage, which would have totally changed the flavor of the combat.
If it were my campaign, I'd have demand a rebuild on the spot. Further complicating the mess was the fact that the player wasn't at the game, and he asked someone else to run him for the night.
Yea...that eidolon is NOT legal. 22 strength is impossible at that level without some tomes and a +6 item. Eidolon strength starts around 14. You dont get 'virtual strength' for extra arms. So basically this guy was either ignorant of the actual rules, or cheating.
Yea...that eidolon is NOT legal. 22 strength is impossible at that level without some tomes and a +6 item. Eidolon strength starts around 14. You dont get 'virtual strength' for extra arms. So basically this guy was either ignorant of the actual rules, or cheating.
Bipedal form starts at STR 16, which becomes 18 with the "Str/Dex Increase" column of the ediolon chart, and the 2-point evolution "Ability Increase" gets him to 20. He could put his 1 ability point for having 4HD into STR as well, and I get 21, tops. And I've been in this campaign since level 1, and there were no tomes.
I'm not sure about the strength for extra arms. Might have been in one of the 3.5 monster books. If it is, it's in MM1-3 or Fiend Folio, because the person who pulled this rule out (of his ---) only owns those. The GM said "Well if it's not specifically contradicted in Pathfinder, I'll go with it."
But that aside, even if he gets 2STR for EACH extra pair of arms, and he took extra limbs twice (I can't figure out where some evolution points went), that gets him up to a 25. With a mw greataxe, that's still only +12 to hit and +10 damage, and his sheet says +15 to both.
I would say he just built it one way and then lost track of where some of his bonuses had come from, and so when he leveled up, he added some things twice, and I would say it was an accident. If I believed that, I would say it.
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Brief threadjack:
We don't play cross sex, if your a dude you play a dude, if your a chick you play a chick.
In all the campaigns I have played in, over the span of about 30 years, with dozens and dozens of different players of mixed genders, I have seen both male players play female characters and female players play male characters. I've seen a devout christian male player play an in-the-closet female lesbian paladin (believe me, it wasn't a freaky player, the subject pretty much never even came up in play). I play whatever gender seems right for the character concept.
If I were playing in a group that informed my that as a male player I had to play a male character I'd move on to another group, no offense. I just prefer things a bit more open.
Brief threadjack:
+1. I've even larped cross-gender (although I actually don't recommend that because in many cases it can be hard for the other players to remember). When you're role-playing, play what fits the character.
For a 22 strength at level 5 on an Eidolon with reach (which was pointed out):
Biped +2 from level + 2 from ability increase (2 points)
Spell like ability enlarge person 3xday (2 points)
Extra Limbs (2 points)
Which leaves 2 points for something else IF he spends a feat in getting access to the axe.
Some other notes:
To Hit: +4 (bab) +6 (str) +1 (weapon Focus) -1 (Large) = +10 IF he is using power attack - 2 = 8
Damage: 2d6(3d6 while enlarged) + 7 (9 while enlarged) + 6 for power attack means 2d6+13 or 3d6+15 while enlarged.
Other points the strength could be coming from would be a belt of giant's strength.
If he doesn't take the spell like ability for enlarge he would have enough points to take reach on his attacks which would put him where it's originally posted.
The biggest problem I'm seeing is on the To Hit numbers.
For a 22 strength at level 5 on an Eidolon with reach (which was pointed out):
Biped +2 from level + 2 from ability increase (2 points)
Spell like ability enlarge person 3xday (2 points)
But an eidolon isn't a humanoid and won't be affected by the spell, right? Anyway, I already know he wasn't using that.
Extra Limbs (2 points)
So are you saying that extra limbs does in fact grant extra strength? Where is that from?
Damage: 2d6(3d6 while enlarged) + 7 (9 while enlarged) + 6 for power attack means 2d6+13 or 3d6+15 while enlarged.
OK, but he never mentioned Power Attack, either. He MIGHT have it.
Other points the strength could be coming from would be a belt of giant's strength.
It has no permanent magic items that I'm aware of.
If he doesn't take the spell like ability for enlarge he would have enough points to take reach on his attacks which would put him where it's originally posted.
Actually, the 2-point Reach evolution and extra limbs are the ones I'm absolutely sure he took.
My party is lvl 4 now, and that ape wouldn't be hitting anything we fight with only a +8 reliably... It would be looking for at least 16s.I don't know about badgers, the Ape I mentioned probably would have done the same.
Let me see --
Animal Companion Ape at Druid level 5:
Size Large
Speed 30 ft., Climb 30 ft.
BAB +3
HP 35
AC 21 (+3 dex +4 Armor +5 natural armor -1 size)
Save Throws: Fort +6 Ref +7 Will +2
Attack bite +8 (1d6+8), 2 claws +8 (1d6+4) or Great Axe + 8 (3d6+12), Bite +3 (1d6+4)
Ability Scores Str 22, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 3, Wis 12, Cha 7
Special Qualities :low-light vision, scent, Evasion, Devotion
Feats: Light Armor Proficiency, Martial weapon proficiency(great axe), Power Attack
Skills; Linguistics 1 (-3), Acrobatics 2 (+7), Perception 2 (+6)On a critical hit with the axe the Ape here would do 9d6+36 with an average of 67.5 damage
Are you saying your level 4 party has characters with a +16 to hit?
I can see a +9 or 10, but how are they getting a 16? This question assumes no buffs are up since the Ape had no buffs.
My party is lvl 4 now, and that ape wouldn't be hitting anything we fight with only a +8 reliably... It would be looking for at least 16s.I don't know about badgers, the Ape I mentioned probably would have done the same.
Let me see --
Animal Companion Ape at Druid level 5:
Size Large
Speed 30 ft., Climb 30 ft.
BAB +3
HP 35
AC 21 (+3 dex +4 Armor +5 natural armor -1 size)
Save Throws: Fort +6 Ref +7 Will +2
Attack bite +8 (1d6+8), 2 claws +8 (1d6+4) or Great Axe + 8 (3d6+12), Bite +3 (1d6+4)
Ability Scores Str 22, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 3, Wis 12, Cha 7
Special Qualities :low-light vision, scent, Evasion, Devotion
Feats: Light Armor Proficiency, Martial weapon proficiency(great axe), Power Attack
Skills; Linguistics 1 (-3), Acrobatics 2 (+7), Perception 2 (+6)On a critical hit with the axe the Ape here would do 9d6+36 with an average of 67.5 damage
Are you saying your level 4 party has characters with a +16 to hit?
I can see a +9 or 10, but how are they getting a 16? This question assumes no buffs are up since the Ape had no buffs.
No, those of us who hit are mostly in the 10-12 range. I also didn't notice that the ape had no magic items on him, which puts him at the low end for our front line... We also buff and debuff a lot.
Chris, Enlarge Person works on the Eidolon because of an ability (link spell or share spell or something like that) that allows him to recieve buffs cast by the summoner on him as if he were a person. Its on the summoner's list, so I have no idea why Abraham would waste evolution points to get it as a SLA.
No, those of us who hit are mostly in the 10-12 range. I also didn't notice that the ape had no magic items on him, which puts him at the low end for our front line... We also buff and debuff a lot.Chris, Enlarge Person works on the Eidolon because of an ability (link spell or share spell or something like that) that allows him to recieve buffs cast by the summoner on him as if he were a person. Its on the summoner's list, so I have no idea why Abraham would waste evolution points to get it as a SLA.
Yeah buffs make a huge difference. That's the ape with no magic and no buffs sitting at a +8 to hit at level 5 (for that example) Truthfully he would just lose a feat if you were to step him back a level though. Quick note on that -- I think I forgot to -1 to hit for large size. So he should be +7 to hit when power attacking.
As to the enlarge person, the newborn kept me up all night, and that was posted pre-breakfast so I was still a bit tired. A bit of buffing however would easily get the eidolon there.
With what I put as the alternate the eidolon would need 4 points (I think) for reach with each hand -- if he takes that and the DM gives him an extra +2 to strength for that second set of hands then we would see a str 22, and reach 10 with a 2d6 weapon. Power attacking is almost mandatory for him to get the damage claimed, and even then isn't going to hit the 6d6+51... more like 6d6+45, which would give an average right around 57 points of damage.
Spot on for my Ape above.
And then one of the other players cited some rule that extra limbs gives you extra "virtual" strength when using a weapon... or something like that. I never heard of that rule, and if anyone knows about it, let me know. Anyway, that was when the other guy was GM'ing, so he let it stand, and I promised to honor all of his rulings.
I tracked down the source of this rumor. The guy playing the summoner mentioned extra limbs, and someone else at the table piped up that it grants +4 STR for tasks using the extra limbs. I talked to that player, and he said it was in one of the spells in Spell Compendium "that deals with extra arms." I went looking through that book for it and I found a 2nd level wizard/sorcerer spell called "Fuse Arms" which is cast on a creature with multiple sets of arms. It turns the multiple sets into one powerful set of arms. When the arms are fused, it grants +4 Str bonus per pair of limbs fused, for tasks using the newly fused limbs. But it requires the spell and it requires the arms to be fused. The +4 doesn't just apply to everything that has extra limbs. It would be kind of a screwball rule if the only place it was found was one spell in a non-core sourcebook.
I talked to the person who cited it, and he said that (Fuse Arms) must have been what he was thinking of. I talked to the regular GM and said that what he did when he took back over was up to him, but I'm striking down the STR bonus that the character has on his sheet now. Regular GM agreed with me. I talked to the player, and told him to fix his sheet. I also let him move some of those evolution points around if he wanted to, since extra limbs didn't do what he was told it did. Hopefully, he'll give it some defenses, because the eidolon is the only melee fighter right now.
Lilith made a drawing for me! Here it is:yay!
Yo quiero... well, whatever he wants, I guess.