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I recently played in a campaign where I play a CN summoner named Geier, whose pet summon is named Chimichanga, a Critter-like dog who drools saliva who hails from the elemental plane of Tako-Bel. He's only allowed to say his name, for fear of the wrath of my masterwork teachin' stick, and thanks to the themed summoning feat, pops out of a red and white ball.
After defeating a BBEG, he and the party returned to the town they just rescued, and were greeted by the grateful townsfolk.
Cue DM: "The children gather around Chimichanga and laughing and petting him, with Chimichanga licking their faces happily."
Me: "And then their laughs quickly devolve into shrieks of pain and agony as Chimichanga's acidic drool quickly dissolves the children's sweet, cherubic faces."
DM: "..."
Best. Character. Ever.
I recently played in a campaign where I play a CN summoner named Geier, whose pet summon is named Chimichanga, a Critter-like dog who drools saliva who hails from the elemental plane of Tako-Bel. He's only allowed to say his name, for fear of the wrath of my masterwork teachin' stick, and thanks to the themed summoning feat, pops out of a red and white ball.
After defeating a BBEG, he and the party returned to the town they just rescued, and were greeted by the grateful townsfolk.
Cue DM: "The children gather around Chimichanga and laughing and petting him, with Chimichanga licking their faces happily."
Me: "And then their laughs quickly devolve into shrieks of pain and agony as Chimichanga's acidic drool quickly dissolves the children's sweet, cherubic faces."
DM: "..."
Best. Character. Ever.
Nice
question about the summoner do you feel like the acutal summoner is the cohort and the eldion is the main charcter ? Or does the summoner still stand out as the class ?
just seems like the edlion is all the fun bits and the summoners is just the glue.
to me it just looks like the eldion would be more fun to play by itself as a class
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I recently played in a campaign where I play a CE summoner named Geier, whose pet summon is named Chimichanga, a Critter-like dog who drools saliva who hails from the elemental plane of Tako-Bel. He's only allowed to say his name, for fear of the wrath of my masterwork teachin' stick, and thanks to the themed summoning feat, pops out of a red and white ball.
After defeating a BBEG, he and the party returned to the town they just rescued, and were greeted by the grateful townsfolk.
Cue DM: "The children gather around Chimichanga and laughing and petting him, with Chimichanga licking their faces happily."
Me: "And then their laughs quickly devolve into shrieks of pain and agony as Chimichanga's acidic drool quickly dissolves the children's sweet, cherubic faces."
DM: "..."
Best. Character. Ever.
Fixed that little typo for you.
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Fixed that little typo for you.I recently played in a campaign where I play a CE summoner named Geier, whose pet summon is named Chimichanga, a Critter-like dog who drools saliva who hails from the elemental plane of Tako-Bel. He's only allowed to say his name, for fear of the wrath of my masterwork teachin' stick, and thanks to the themed summoning feat, pops out of a red and white ball.
After defeating a BBEG, he and the party returned to the town they just rescued, and were greeted by the grateful townsfolk.
Cue DM: "The children gather around Chimichanga and laughing and petting him, with Chimichanga licking their faces happily."
Me: "And then their laughs quickly devolve into shrieks of pain and agony as Chimichanga's acidic drool quickly dissolves the children's sweet, cherubic faces."
DM: "..."
Best. Character. Ever.
Hey, not my fault if the DM forgot the little detail about the Eidolon's Acidic Saliva. In my defence, I said "Down Chimichanga!" and hit him with mah teachin stick.
besides at that age skin grows back .... reasonable quickly....as long as its not down to the bone XD
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Nice
question about the summoner do you feel like the acutal summoner is the cohort and the eldion is the main charcter ? Or does the summoner still stand out as the class ?
just seems like the edlion is all the fun bits and the summoners is just the glue.
to me it just looks like the eldion would be more fun to play by itself as a class
Sir, you have it all wrong. The Summoner and the Eidolon sync well together, thanks to share spell and other abilities. The Eidolon is the fun bit, but without the summoner it wouldn't be nearly as fun to play.
And no, I've never felt the summoner to be a cohort (the eidolon only has 7 int). The Eidolon is kinda like a powerful, versatile weapon with limited intelligence.
You really just have to play it to gain a good understanding of the class. Kinda bummed that there are only two feats worth taking for the summoner (augmented summoning and spell focus conjuration, although spell focus is really only taken as a prereq since it does nothing for a summoner).
Nice
question about the summoner do you feel like the acutal summoner is the cohort and the eldion is the main charcter ? Or does the summoner still stand out as the class ?
just seems like the edlion is all the fun bits and the summoners is just the glue.
to me it just looks like the eldion would be more fun to play by itself as a class
Sir, you have it all wrong. The Summoner and the Eidolon sync well together, thanks to share spell and other abilities. The Eidolon is the fun bit, but without the summoner it wouldn't be nearly as fun to play.
And no, I've never felt the summoner to be a cohort (the eidolon only has 7 int). The Eidolon is kinda like a powerful, versatile weapon with limited intelligence.
You really just have to play it to gain a good understanding of the class. Kinda bummed that there are only two feats worth taking for the summoner (augmented summoning and spell focus conjuration, although spell focus is really only taken as a prereq since it does nothing for a summoner).
thanks I'm tossing up what to play in an upcomming Kingmaker campagin , its hard to gauge how the summoner acutally play from appearnaces. its a toss up between the summoner and the witch at the moment.
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thanks I'm tossing up what to play in an upcomming Kingmaker campagin , its hard to gauge how the summoner acutally play from appearnaces. its a toss up between the summoner and the witch at the moment.
Nice
question about the summoner do you feel like the acutal summoner is the cohort and the eldion is the main charcter ? Or does the summoner still stand out as the class ?
just seems like the edlion is all the fun bits and the summoners is just the glue.
to me it just looks like the eldion would be more fun to play by itself as a class
Sir, you have it all wrong. The Summoner and the Eidolon sync well together, thanks to share spell and other abilities. The Eidolon is the fun bit, but without the summoner it wouldn't be nearly as fun to play.
And no, I've never felt the summoner to be a cohort (the eidolon only has 7 int). The Eidolon is kinda like a powerful, versatile weapon with limited intelligence.
You really just have to play it to gain a good understanding of the class. Kinda bummed that there are only two feats worth taking for the summoner (augmented summoning and spell focus conjuration, although spell focus is really only taken as a prereq since it does nothing for a summoner).
Go summoner, you won't regret it.
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thanks I'm tossing up what to play in an upcomming Kingmaker campagin , its hard to gauge how the summoner acutally play from appearnaces. its a toss up between the summoner and the witch at the moment.
Both classes are good. If you want to bash in melee then go summoner. If you want some really good debuff abilities that you can use in every encounter go witch. Witch has more spells and more powerful spells in the long run.
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I recently played in a campaign where I play a CN summoner named Geier, whose pet summon is named Chimichanga, a Critter-like dog who drools saliva who hails from the elemental plane of Tako-Bel. He's only allowed to say his name, for fear of the wrath of my masterwork teachin' stick, and thanks to the themed summoning feat, pops out of a red and white ball.
After defeating a BBEG, he and the party returned to the town they just rescued, and were greeted by the grateful townsfolk.
Cue DM: "The children gather around Chimichanga and laughing and petting him, with Chimichanga licking their faces happily."
Me: "And then their laughs quickly devolve into shrieks of pain and agony as Chimichanga's acidic drool quickly dissolves the children's sweet, cherubic faces."
DM: "..."
Best. Character. Ever.
LOL.
Now hand over that feat...
...
Please.
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LOL.
Now hand over that feat...
...
Please.
Look it up in crystal keep, it's in a book that I don't recall the name of, it might even be a dragon magazine feat, but basically it's called themed spellcaster and all it really does is alter your spells to "fit" the theme that you want (and makes trying to identify the spell via spellcraft a bit harder). I chose a pokemon theme, and toss out my pokeballs screaming "Lantarchon, I choose you!" (for the lantern archon, of course).
I used an octopus to cross a raging river. It went swimmingly until the DM pointed out that octopi jet, they don't just swim.
"I-AHH!-Hate-AHH!-Octopus-AHH!"
To me the summoner is the chessmaster and the eidolon and summons his pieces. Not to mention i've optimized my summoner to get into combat himself, and with some group buffs (like haste) he can actually do pretty well.
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Now hand over that feat...
...
Please.
Ok, here's the feat:
Spell Thematics
[General]
(Player's Guide to Faerun p44)
Arcane spellcaster 1st lvl Your spells have a visual theme, such as ‘sphere’ or ‘lightning’. Spells you cast have special effects based
on your theme, such as Summon Monster I manifesting as the creature springing from a thrown sphere.
1. Since your spells look different, Spellcraft checks to identify what spell you are casting are at +4 DC.
2. For each of your current and future caster levels, you may designate one spell as a ‘thematic spell’, which
is thereafter cast at +1 effective Caster level.
Note: you cannot make your spell invisible & the effects of your spells are not changed in any way.
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Ah, now I feel silly. I've seen Spell Thematics before(even thought to use "fire" for it and cast create water). I thought you were talking about a home-made feat, and I never thought of using Spell Thematics like that... which is a saddening thought, considering I found a set of pokemon 'minis' not too long ago.
Thanks for the reminder!
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Ah, now I feel silly. I've seen Spell Thematics before(even thought to use "fire" for it and cast create water). I thought you were talking about a home-made feat, and I never thought of using Spell Thematics like that... which is a saddening thought, considering I found a set of pokemon 'minis' not too long ago.
Thanks for the reminder!
The summoner class is probably going to be banned from our homegames. One player is playing the class and we all agreed that we should scratch our characters and play summoned eidolons.
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The summoner class is probably going to be banned from our homegames. One player is playing the class and we all agreed that we should scratch our characters and play summoned eidolons.
I suppose you're going to ban Druids too. Animal Companions are almost as powerful as Eidolons. Druids also have better spell selection and Wild Shape. Nerf Druids!
I just don't see an issue with the eidolon being more powerful than the caster, I like how Kolokotroni described it.
AND
The summoner class is probably going to be banned from our homegames. One player is playing the class and we all agreed that we should scratch our characters and play summoned eidolons.I suppose you're going to ban Druids too. Animal Companions are almost as powerful as Eidolons. Druids also have better spell selection and Wild Shape. Nerf Druids!
I think the point is that from a fluff standpoint, Eidolons are more interesting than their summoners.
The summoner class is probably going to be banned from our homegames. One player is playing the class and we all agreed that we should scratch our characters and play summoned eidolons.Ah, now I feel silly. I've seen Spell Thematics before(even thought to use "fire" for it and cast create water). I thought you were talking about a home-made feat, and I never thought of using Spell Thematics like that... which is a saddening thought, considering I found a set of pokemon 'minis' not too long ago.
Thanks for the reminder!
I find that interesting, because while my group had a summoner, his eidolon dropped every combat. I say while we had a summoner, because he was the first character to die. I don't think summoners are that much more powerful than the other classes, especially if they are not twinked out for max damage to ridiculousness.
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The summoner class is probably going to be banned from our homegames. One player is playing the class and we all agreed that we should scratch our characters and play summoned eidolons.
They don't want to play summoners, but the Eidolons? That means you, as the DM, get to control the Summoners each Eidolon is summoned by.
Which means you can control the Eidolons. Not looking like such a good choice does it?
"I charge and rip into the lich with my claws!"
"Actually, your Summoner wants you to keep the lesser vampires away from him, so you have to attack them instead."
"..."
Which means you can control the Eidolons. Not looking like such a good choice does it?
"I charge and rip into the lich with my claws!"
"Actually, your Summoner wants you to keep the lesser vampires away from him, so you have to attack them instead."
"..."
First off, James Jacobs said that players get to control the Eidolon, he said that was part of makes the class appealing.
But, even by your definition if the player is playing the Eidolon and charges the lich, the summoner (being controlled by the GM) couldn't tell him what to do. If he could, then you go back to playing summoner and controling both.
The summoner class is probably going to be banned from our homegames. One player is playing the class and we all agreed that we should scratch our characters and play summoned eidolons.They don't want to play summoners, but the Eidolons? That means you, as the DM, get to control the Summoners each Eidolon is summoned by.
Which means you can control the Eidolons. Not looking like such a good choice does it?
"I charge and rip into the lich with my claws!"
"Actually, your Summoner wants you to keep the lesser vampires away from him, so you have to attack them instead."
"..."
There is absolutely nothing in the Summoner or Eidolon rules that state the Summoner has total control of his Eidolon. Eidolons are free-willed entities, just like Animal Companions, Special Mounts, Cohorts, and so on are. They always share the same alignment as their Summoner, so their general personalities and methods shouldn't conflict too greatly with their Summoner, but they are capable of independent action, even if the Summoner tells them to do something.
Ya from a fluff standpoint. I think it would be like saying a wizzards fireball(spells) is more interesting than he is. The summoner has the ability to call and shape extremely powerful beings. The fact that he can call an eidolon is part of what makes him interesting. It seems like people are viewing the eidolon seperate from the summoned, when they should be viewing is as his fireball that he can talk to.
Yes, and that ability is still a game mechanic, and not the out-of-combat, role-playing "fluff" of which I spoke. The Eidolon is a quirky, chimeric representation of the imaginative abilities of the player as represented by the PC, the summoner. Green six-legged badgers? Acid-dripping chihuahuas? No, not as powerful as their summoner. Yes, definitely more entertaining to describe and discuss. Case in point, the OP of this thread -- quick, without scrolling up, describe the summoner character. Now describe his eidolon. See what I mean?
Now a wizard that TALKS to his fireballs -- that would be an interesting character.
I guess my point is that instead of "quick, without scrolling up, describe the summoner character. Now describe his eidolon." it should be - quick, without scrolling up, describe the summoner character and describe his eidolon. - As the eidolon is a subset of the summoner and is part of what makes the summoner interesting.
Ya from a fluff standpoint. I think it would be like saying a wizzards fireball(spells) is more interesting than he is. The summoner has the ability to call and shape extremely powerful beings. The fact that he can call an eidolon is part of what makes him interesting. It seems like people are viewing the eidolon seperate from the summoned, when they should be viewing is as his fireball that he can talk to.Yes, and that ability is still a game mechanic, and not the out-of-combat, role-playing "fluff" of which I spoke. The Eidolon is a quirky, chimeric representation of the imaginative abilities of the player as represented by the PC, the summoner. Green six-legged badgers? Acid-dripping chihuahuas? No, not as powerful as their summoner. Yes, definitely more entertaining to describe and discuss. Case in point, the OP of this thread -- quick, without scrolling up, describe the summoner character. Now describe his eidolon. See what I mean?
Now a wizard that TALKS to his fireballs -- that would be an interesting character.
Or SHOULD be. I think the concern expressed originally was that the Eidolon can be so damned fun to develop, you FORGET to do the same for the summoner.
Now a wizard that TALKS to his fireballs -- that would be an interesting character.I think it would be more fun as an alchemist talking to his spell packets before throwing them.
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The summoner class is probably going to be banned from our homegames. One player is playing the class and we all agreed that we should scratch our characters and play summoned eidolons.I suppose you're going to ban Druids too. Animal Companions are almost as powerful as Eidolons. Druids also have better spell selection and Wild Shape. Nerf Druids!
Yeah, but name an animal companion that can have 10' reach, three attacks in a round at level 4 and share hit points and spells with the druid.
Yeah, but name an animal companion that can have 10' reach, three attacks in a round at level 4 and share hit points and spells with the druid.
The Ape does everything but the HP share.
However the Ape can also were armor and doesn't go "poof" to dismissal.
The summoner class is probably going to be banned from our homegames. One player is playing the class and we all agreed that we should scratch our characters and play summoned eidolons.I suppose you're going to ban Druids too. Animal Companions are almost as powerful as Eidolons. Druids also have better spell selection and Wild Shape. Nerf Druids!
Last night: 5th level party, 6 characters and an eidolon, fighting a CR7 vampire (65hp and Fast healing 5) and a spawn. None of the PCs has a magic silver weapon, so -10 to everything.
Over 5 rounds, the vampire has taken a smattering of fire and force damage, scratches from the PCs and 27 points from the eidolon. It's only down about 20 HP because of its fast healing. Oh, the spawn died in round 2. Eidolon killed it in 2 hits, one of which was an AoO as the spawn ran within the eidolon's 10' reach.
On the eidolon's turn on round 5, critical hit with a (regular off-the-shelf) greataxe. 3d12+51. The fight is over.
Let's see your badger do that.
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The summoner class is probably going to be banned from our homegames. One player is playing the class and we all agreed that we should scratch our characters and play summoned eidolons.I suppose you're going to ban Druids too. Animal Companions are almost as powerful as Eidolons. Druids also have better spell selection and Wild Shape. Nerf Druids!Last night: 5th level party, 6 characters and an eidolon, fighting a CR7 vampire (65hp and Fast healing 5) and a spawn. None of the PCs has a magic silver weapon, so -10 to everything.
Over 5 rounds, the vampire has taken a smattering of fire and force damage, scratches from the PCs and 27 points from the eidolon. It's only down about 20 HP because of its fast healing. Oh, the spawn died in round 2. Eidolon killed it in 2 hits, one of which was an AoO as the spawn ran within the eidolon's 10' reach.
On the eidolon's turn on round 5, critical hit with a (regular off-the-shelf) greataxe. 3d12+51. The fight is over.
Let's see your badger do that.
Well, if the badger could wield a greataxe, it could.
The eidolon is more powerful then the animals companion, the druid is more powerful then the summoner. I myself would give the edge to he druid/animal companion over the summoner/eidolon
And an ape could do the same thing, ya know
I don't know about badgers, the Ape I mentioned probably would have done the same.
Let me see --
Animal Companion Ape at Druid level 5:
Size Large
Speed 30 ft., Climb 30 ft.
BAB +3
HP 35
AC 21 (+3 dex +4 Armor +5 natural armor -1 size)
Save Throws: Fort +6 Ref +7 Will +2
Attack bite +8 (1d6+8), 2 claws +8 (1d6+4) or Great Axe + 8 (3d6+12), Bite +3 (1d6+4)
Ability Scores Str 22, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 3, Wis 12, Cha 7
Special Qualities :low-light vision, scent, Evasion, Devotion
Feats: Light Armor Proficiency, Martial weapon proficiency(great axe), Power Attack
Skills; Linguistics 1 (-3), Acrobatics 2 (+7), Perception 2 (+6)
On a critical hit with the axe the Ape here would do 9d6+36 with an average of 67.5 damage
Oh hands down better.
On a critical hit with the axe the Ape here would do 9d6+36 with an average of 67.5 damage
I'm not arguing with your numbers, but is an ape capable of wielding a greataxe?
On a critical hit with the axe the Ape here would do 9d6+36 with an average of 67.5 damageI'm not arguing with your numbers, but is an ape capable of wielding a greataxe?
It has opposable thumbs and therefore could carry one and I specifically gave the ape the feat to use it proficiently so yes -- I really can see anyone saying that an ape isn't capable of using a great axe.
I don't know about badgers, the Ape I mentioned probably would have done the same.
Let me see --
Animal Companion Ape at Druid level 5:
Size Large
Speed 30 ft., Climb 30 ft.
BAB +3
HP 35
AC 21 (+3 dex +4 Armor +5 natural armor -1 size)
Save Throws: Fort +6 Ref +7 Will +2
Attack bite +8 (1d6+8), 2 claws +8 (1d6+4) or Great Axe + 8 (3d6+12), Bite +3 (1d6+4)
Ability Scores Str 22, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 3, Wis 12, Cha 7
Special Qualities :low-light vision, scent, Evasion, Devotion
Feats: Light Armor Proficiency, Martial weapon proficiency(great axe), Power Attack
Skills; Linguistics 1 (-3), Acrobatics 2 (+7), Perception 2 (+6)On a critical hit with the axe the Ape here would do 9d6+36 with an average of 67.5 damage
My party is lvl 4 now, and that ape wouldn't be hitting anything we fight with only a +8 reliably... It would be looking for at least 16s.