If a component doesn't have a listed value it is assumed to have a value of less than 1 gp.
EDIT: Rules quote to support:
"Material (M): A material component consists of one or more physical substances or objects that are annihilated by the spell energies in the casting process. Unless a cost is given for a material component, the cost is negligible. Don't bother to keep track of material components with negligible cost. Assume you have all you need as long as you have your spell component pouch."
Eschew materials means you don't even have to do that much.
It SHOULD cost more than 1 GP, but if it isn't listed, not much can be done.
Doesnt say it has to be from an ancient chromatic dragon or anything. There's lots of lesser dragons in the world, and they probably molt.It SHOULD cost more than 1 GP, but if it isn't listed, not much can be done.I'll agree with you on that.
Thanks for the responses, guys.
Robert
Not sure there is A LOT. I'm basing this on 2nd edition stuff, Dragon scales are not THAT easy to come by.
It SHOULD cost more than 1 GP, but if it isn't listed, not much can be done.
Well, I'd guess that depends on the GM and whether or not he/she wishes to assign a value. I mean, it costs good money or better dragonslaying to make dragon hide armor, right?
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Unless an actual spell component price is listed then the price is included in the component pouch and eligible for eschew materials. I kind of agree that the cost of a dragon scale should be higher but I don't like the idea of arbitrarily adding costs to spells because I think the spell component should be pricey. My suggestion is if it bugs you that a dragon scale is less than 1gp that you change the spell component to something else which will help maintain verisimilitude without changing game balance.
I treat it as negligible cost, but not automatic acquisition (i.e. not found in every spell component pouch). Thus Eschew Materials works, but otherwise you need to actually get the components.
It really comes down to what yuo consider a "dragon".
When you say the word, most folk consider the Big Ones to be the dragons it means- but wyverns have the Dragon type as well. Half-dragons do as well, as are the Linnorms.
So not that they are as common as say, mammal hairs.. but its not like you have to go up against a 1200 year old wyrm to find 'em, either..
-S
I'd think Dragon Scales would be cheap maybe 1 GP each. Though you need the right scale and demand for one type vs another might drive the price up for specific scales. For example there might be a young red dragon terrorizing the area but it leaves it's scales so red scales are dime a dozen but it's a tropical region and White Dragon scales would be rare and cost much more.
Not sure there is A LOT. I'm basing this on 2nd edition stuff, Dragon scales are not THAT easy to come by.
2nd edition isn't really a good source. You wouldn't have abundant dragon scales, but you would also have no elven bards or dwarven rangers, the first being completely ridiculous and the second meaning Harsk wouldn't work ;-P
Fairy dragons are dragons. Pseudo dragons are dragons. Wyverns are dragons. A lot of things that won't eat cities are dragons.
Now, I dont believe they should have used the term "Dragon type", since that has a very specific game mechanic meaning, but I think its pretty clear that the RAI is that if you have a blue dragon scale you become a blue dragon, you couldnt be a gold dragon.
... which isn't a problem since apparently there's an assortment of all of these scales in each component pouch. :-p
The spell says: " Components V, S, M (a scale of the dragon type you plan to assume) "Fairy dragons are dragons. Pseudo dragons are dragons. Wyverns are dragons. A lot of things that won't eat cities are dragons.
Are you saying the form of a faerie dragon is not worth pursuing? It's a great form. It's so tiny and cuddly and people go all "aaawwww" until you bite their face of with your surprisingly strong jaw.
Guess you had to be there.
Still, I over-read the part about the dragon type, so I guess some unscrupulous wizards are abducting dragon babies to harvest heir scales - all in the name of magical progress.
Good dragon scales might be sold by the dragons themselves. Gets the old, shed ones out of the lair and gets a few coins for the horde in return.
Evil dragon scales are, of course, harvested in the wild by adventurers.
There are a few material components I have a problem assuming are free, this is one of them. At no point should dragon parts be common and ubiquitous in every spell component pouch.
Dragon scale material components don't have to be common since wizards who are able to turn into dragons aren't all that common in their own right.
You could get one scale turn into a dragon, remove some scales, sell a few of your scales, rinse, repeat.
I know it's cheesey but that is what you do for difficult DM's. :)
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If I had a smaller group of players who were enjoyed being detail oriented about this sort of thing then I might have them track what type of scales they had. I personally am not the sort of person who enjoys that level of detail so I don't expect my players to be. The game rules suggest you just assume anything that doesn't have a component costs listed is in the component pouch which is good enough for me.
One thing that might make it a little more realistic is if higher level casters were required to maintain more expensive spell pouches. They are casting a lot more and have many more spells which require components so it makes sense.
Regardless, by the time you can cast the spell your wizard is 11th level, whether it costs 1gp or 10gp is really pretty irrelevant by that point unless, that's generally a rounding error in your total wealth.
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One thing that might make it a little more realistic is if higher level casters were required to maintain more expensive spell pouches. They are casting a lot more and have many more spells which require components so it makes sense.
This makes perfect sense. Not sure if it's implementation is practical or how to do it though.
Regardless, by the time you can cast the spell your wizard is 11th level, whether it costs 1gp or 10gp is really pretty irrelevant by that point unless, that's generally a rounding error in your total wealth.
But this misses the point of my original post / query. I'm not taking umbrage with whether such a character would be able to afford them at that point - my umbrage was with the ability to circumvent the material component need w/ the feat Eschew Materials. If they cost 10gp, sure it's affordable, but they're still needed even by a wizard with that feat. And Eschew Materials isn't always about 'not having one'. Sometimes you're already in a form that cannot have access to your equipment, or in a situation or condition (like pinned) that you cannot access the component pouch.
EDIT: Not to mention the fact that the restriction that you need the "right" color scale is also moot via that feat.
Robert
I see it as too game world specific for a straight answer.
Its either...
The last dragon we saw in these parts was the great 'HeroEater' five hundred years ago. He was 300 feet long and ate the mage guild cause they were late with a scroll.... - dragon scales are very hard to come by and eschew materials isn't enough.
or
Familiars! Get your familiars! We got pseudo dragons, crimson dragons, candle dragons! Also fire lizards! Genuine dragon scale shellac made from the ground up scales of the mystic dragon - make your furniture shine! - 'dragons' that qualify for the spell are plentiful. Eschew materials might be overkill.
Sigurd
Material components without a gp cost are just there for flavor.
There's no mechanical difference between a spell with Components: V, S and an otherwise identical spell with Components: V, S, M (a scale of the dragon type you want to assume).
You could do away with M components entirely (except for the pricey ones), and by that I mean "change all spell descriptions so they don't mention M components at all except for costly ones") and not affect the game one bit--except in the rare circumstances where your wizard's spell component pouch has been stolen, which is a circumstance where the GM is being a jerk anyway. :)
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But this misses the point of my original post / query.
Apologies, I wasn't really speaking to your original post at that point.
I'm not taking umbrage with whether such a character would be able to afford them at that point - my umbrage was with the ability to circumvent the material component need w/ the feat Eschew Materials. If they cost 10gp, sure it's affordable, but they're still needed even by a wizard with that feat. And Eschew Materials isn't always about 'not having one'. Sometimes you're already in a form that cannot have access to your equipment, or in a situation or condition (like pinned) that you cannot access the component pouch.
EDIT: Not to mention the fact that the restriction that you need the "right" color scale is also moot via that feat.
I think it's been mentioned but it bears repeating. There are no hidden costs to spellcasting that GMs have to calculate. If material components are meant to have a cost/ effort to acquire they are listed as such. If there is no explicit cost listed then you can safely assume the caster has it available in his pouch or it's eligible for eschew.
Ninja'd by Sean.
If you wanted to limit it I wouldn't add a price
I'd add that unless you've enountered the type of dragon or somehwere thats clearly been occupied by a dragon in the past then you don't have those scales for the spell.
chances are by the time you can cast this spell you've prob run into at least 1 dragon so you'd agurable have enough scales from that encounter for use with the spell but your limited to that dragon type.
Or if you come across somone wearing dragonscale armor , you can have your theif steal a few scales off the edges while no one is looking and then you'd have that colour scale for the spell.
makes it a bit more of an intersting spell since you'll keep remebering the dragon encounter each time you cast it.
maybe to restrictive for some by thats really dependant on the DM.