World building sounds good - pointers to details like terrain and geography, so we don't map deserts in the middle of what should be rainshadow ....
So, what are ideas for products that haven't been done a million times before?-Lisa
Adventures that (as a DM) you *don't* have to read in advance.
Along those same lines - adventures that are good for an evening or "pick-up" game. Quick adventures that allow a bunch of friends to just jump in and play without having to worry about story baggage and whatnot.
World building sounds good - pointers to details like terrain and geography, so we don't map deserts in the middle of what should be rainshadow ....
Especially if it could be alternately boxed with one of the world design software packages.
One of my favorite DM supplements was the AD&D Dungeon Master's Design Kit published in 1988, if that was re-written by Paizo's best, and re-written for Pathfinder RPG, and updating the tables to incorporate PFRPG, I would buy it so fast. It was only done once...And I never see it on sale. It is one of my prized gaming possessions.
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I hate I got into thie thread late, but I have heard so many people talk about the complete series as over-powered splat that makes the DM's job very difficult. I must reply to this and this seems the right place.
Experienced players usually plan their character through every level (or have a plan) so that the GM can create the content and character story arcs for them. This means knowing, in advance, what the player plans and what books he will be accessing and probable feats.
Are GM's to lazy to read the content? I mean, if you want to run a game that is basic and has very little diversity in class options, then run 4E.
I know this might come off as abrasive, but I have held my tongue long enough. People posting that "The coplete books are splat that over power the game in the players favor" rubs me wrong, and I am a GM.
A good game starts as a cooperative effort of player and GM. Dont reject the completes just because you read this thread and saw 15 people saying they overpower a game. Have fun with them. Let your players explore those books and enjoy
Thanks for letting me rant. :D
CC
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But alot of the material is over-powered, broken and was never tested. They (wotc) already have admitted this. It was just red meat thrown to players to get combo-level-20 builds going and sell bad books. That may be great for pvp, but my players are having a hard enough time figuring out how to survive the next encounter/module/campaign to be planning out feat progression to level 20.
I can't even comment on the building story arcs to fit player builds/prcs concept. Just alien and not D&D to me, I know I'm probably in the minority on that one though.
Are GM's to lazy to read the content? I mean, if you want to run a game that is basic and has very little diversity in class options, then run 4E.
Wow, low blow - and a lie also.
Diversity does not mean a stream of broken feats, or feats which negate earlier feats (due to superiority) - diversity could be far more minor. Only problem is that never appealed to "Experienced players who usually planned their characters through every level". I mean how are you going to sell books to uber-gamers if the power level of new material is on par with PF traits and doesn't help with their "builds"?Plus yeah, between job, family, gf and working and running my game I don't have time to look at every spell, prc, and feat to test their brokenness as it relates to my game. I'll read the books, use what I like - and then let the players choose (after they get the ok) features which are not absurdly broken.
I own and read the completes - most (80%) is broken, or just simply over-powered when compared to 3.5 or previous material. Be they spells or feats, I find that as we play-test and actually use some of the material it goes way beyond the scope of what it was intended to do - and that was to provide diversity/options in character types. It's just about increased power, plain and simple. Powerz bait for players, guilt for DMs who would disallow them.
Just nonsense.
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I don't know about the complete books, but I wouldn't mind seeing the Handbooks of 2nd edition come back in Pathfinder form.
Something small, cheap ($10-ish) and just cover like a class. A few character background ideas, a little detail on the class and then say some feats or traits that focus just on it.
But alot of the material is over-powered, broken and was never tested. They (wotc) already have admitted this. It was just red meat thrown to players to get combo-level-20 builds going and sell bad books. That may be great for pvp, but my players are having a hard enough time figuring out how to survive the next encounter/module/campaign to be planning out feat progression to level 20.
I can't even comment on the building story arcs to fit player builds/prcs concept. Just alien and not D&D to me, I know I'm probably in the minority on that one though.
Are GM's to lazy to read the content? I mean, if you want to run a game that is basic and has very little diversity in class options, then run 4E.Wow, low blow - and a lie also.
Diversity does not mean a stream of broken feats, or feats which negate earlier feats (due to superiority) - diversity could be far more minor. Only problem is that never appealed to "Experienced players who usually planned their characters through every level". I mean how are you going to sell books to uber-gamers if the power level of new material is on par with PF traits and doesn't help with their "builds"?
Plus yeah, between job, family, gf and working and running my game I don't have time to look at every spell, prc, and feat to test their brokenness as it relates to my game. I'll read the books, use what I like - and then let the players choose (after they get the ok) features which are not absurdly broken.I own and read the completes - most (80%) is broken, or just simply over-powered when compared to 3.5 or previous material. Be they spells or feats, I find that as we play-test and actually use some of the material it goes way beyond the scope of what it was intended to do - and that was to provide diversity/options in character types. It's just about increased power, plain and simple. Powerz bait for players, guilt for DMs who would disallow them.
Just nonsense.
I agree 95%. The 5% I don't agree with is that all the feats and PrCs in the Complete books are useless beyond being there to overpower PCs.
I appreciated the options the early books gave players and DMs, it is only that in the later development cycles they got to be too much to keep track of. And, of course, that they were overpowered.
I own and read the completes - most (80%) is broken, or just simply over-powered when compared to 3.5 or previous material. Be they spells or feats, I find that as we play-test and actually use some of the material it goes way beyond the scope of what it was intended to do - and that was to provide diversity/options in character types. It's just about increased power, plain and simple. Powerz bait for players, guilt for DMs who would disallow them.
Wasn't the overpoweredness of the splat books one of the reasons Paizo gave for up-gunning the classes in Pathfinder? Logically, therefore, some of this material that was unbalanced in 3.5 is now balanced in Pathfinder. Also, some of those classes were in no wise over powered - come on, the samurai, the ninja and the spirit shaman were all decidedly underpowered, their big advantage was that they were interesting.
I used them both playing and running games and had no issues. OK, my group were not power-gamers by any stretch of the imagination, but then that can break any game, splat books or not.
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Wasn't the overpoweredness of the splat books one of the reasons Paizo gave for up-gunning the classes in Pathfinder? Logically, therefore, some of this material that was unbalanced in 3.5 is now balanced in Pathfinder. Also, some of those classes were in no wise over powered - come on, the samurai, the ninja and the spirit shaman were all decidedly underpowered, their big advantage was that they were interesting.
I used them both playing and running games and had no issues. OK, my group were not power-gamers by any stretch of the imagination, but then that can break any game, splat books or not.
Overpoweredness compared to the splats yes, but there were a ton of other weaknesses to the 3.5 phb classes - dead levels, weakness compared to other classes, overpowered spells or feats which created class dominance, classes which were just lacking decent features (Fighter, Rogue). It wasn't just the relation of the core classes to everything else out there by wotc. I would say that was a small part actually.
And I never said all of it was over-powered - just most of it. I use materials from those books, we even use some questionable stuff and now I need to fix the problems those spat features caused. Certain spells, plenty of feats actually were used to break the game - CoDzilla with various divine metamagic feats, etc. And when I say over-powered I am referring to the pound-for-pound value of one feat in in core vs another which came out in splat. Not just raw power or damage but superior in what the splats offered vs 3.5 phb, making older ones invalid, etc.
My group are not power gamers also, but if a wizard can get a feat like sudden maximize, or extra ray how can they turn down that kind of power? And that stuff is broken, plain and simple.
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Adventure Builder's Handbook. Paizo has the most experienced adventure designers on the planet. Your work product is stellar. What I would really, really, really love to see is the behind the scenes details of how you think about, plot, outline, and prepare an adventure path. In particular, I'd like a focus on building exciting combat/non-combat encounters, creating good monsters, etc. It'd be great if the book broke apart the various APs and highlighted encounters that you guys were particularly proud of/dissappointed with.
Great idea, I would really find such a book interesting!!
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Well, I can't really give many more suggestions beyond those that have been given here already. I guess I am just tired of seeing "When will we get a Pathfinder version of {insert D&D product here} ?" posts. I don't think Paizo should feel obliged to put out a PFRPG conversion of everything that TSR/WotC has put out since 1974.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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<snark>a book of how to draw maps that don't suck</snark>.
More seriously, how did White Wolf's year of the X do? I'd love to see...
edit: forgot...
and of course...
stuff
Awesome ideas, Matt. I'd be all over all of those.
I like your ideas, Matt!
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I don't think Paizo should feel obliged to put out a PFRPG conversion of everything that TSR/WotC has put out since 1974.Screw you man, I'm still waiting for my PF Faces of Sigil. Hop to, Paizo.
To be honest, if WotC ever puts up the D&D franchise on sale, I want Paizo to buy off the Planescape part, and re-do every goddamn book in that line, plus followups to Faction War. Planescape books were some of the best books TSR made, both in looks, feel and contents.
To be honest, if WotC ever puts up the D&D franchise on sale....
I've been thinking. It might not be all that difficult to get a Paizo fanatic gamer on the Hasbro board of directors. If enough of us bought Hasbro stock and eventually pooled it, we could elect an official to sit on the BoD. One meeting and we demand that all 3E DnD material be offered up as OGC.
I hate I got into thie thread late, but I have heard so many people talk about the complete series as over-powered splat that makes the DM's job very difficult. I must reply to this and this seems the right place.
Experienced players usually plan their character through every level (or have a plan) so that the GM can create the content and character story arcs for them. This means knowing, in advance, what the player plans and what books he will be accessing and probable feats.
Are GM's to lazy to read the content? I mean, if you want to run a game that is basic and has very little diversity in class options, then run 4E.
I know this might come off as abrasive, but I have held my tongue long enough. People posting that "The coplete books are splat that over power the game in the players favor" rubs me wrong, and I am a GM.
A good game starts as a cooperative effort of player and GM. Dont reject the completes just because you read this thread and saw 15 people saying they overpower a game. Have fun with them. Let your players explore those books and enjoy
Thanks for letting me rant. :D
CC
I agree with this message Thank you
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To be honest, if WotC ever puts up the D&D franchise on sale, I want Paizo to buy off the Planescape part, and re-do every goddamn book in that line, plus followups to Faction War. Planescape books were some of the best books TSR made, both in looks, feel and contents.I don't think Paizo should feel obliged to put out a PFRPG conversion of everything that TSR/WotC has put out since 1974.Screw you man, I'm still waiting for my PF Faces of Sigil. Hop to, Paizo.
I'd kind of prefer to keep forgetting Faction War happened. ;)
I loves all my philosophers with clubs making Sigil a more complicated place to live.
(though I think most of us can agree that Die Vecna Die never happened as it was written)
(also, have to add that Faces of Sigil made me fall in love with NPC books, and is a big part of why I'm looking forward to one Paizo's putting out)
(also, MORE DITERLIZZI ART, PAIZO COMMISSION HIM FOR ANYTHING, SINGLE BLACK AND WHITE SKETCH EVEN, JUST SOMEONE GET HIM TO DO SOME RPG ART AGAIN, CAPS LOCK)
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To be honest, if WotC ever puts up the D&D franchise on sale, I want Paizo to buy off the Planescape part, and re-do every goddamn book in that line, plus followups to Faction War. Planescape books were some of the best books TSR made, both in looks, feel and contents.
A big +1 - fantastic stuff through and through, for many meanings of the word.
I keep popping over to Planewalker and archiving stuff against the day that WotC nuke it.
So, what are ideas for products that haven't been done a million times before?
-Lisa
I personally would like to see companions based upon the idea of certain classes that require fluff
Monks of Golarion comes to mind. Different orders with different feats for specific orders. Info on the orders themselves, etc etc
Wizards of Golarion could go thru different schools and the like. Bards could have a similiar books. Cavaliers would make an interesting Companion as well detailing different orders and whatnot
World building sounds good - pointers to details like terrain and geography, so we don't map deserts in the middle of what should be rainshadow ....
Yay,
and hard facts / rules.
In many games I prefer the "simulationist" style - and I really am interested in a book which tells me how many people harvest what amount grain on how much space at a certain technology level.
Or how much it costs to produce amounts of ore and metal and...
But I guess there are only few "simulationist" gamers like me. At least in germany. :( *sigh
Books on World building, level 20+ gaming, adventure (path) building,.. I would buy for sure.
I also would like a city/town building book, though perhaps not quite in the level of detail that Arthun is looking for.
I had high hopes for Cityscape, but was sorely disappointed.
So often I find myself wondering in smaller villages who lives there. Is there a cooper? A blacksmith? How about a lumber mill? Or a candlemaker?
Clearly not every small town has all of these things, but I don't even have a good mental list of what all the occupations are, never mind which ones are always present vs. usually, sometimes, or rarely present.
Even the original AD&D DMG, usually my bible for this sort of stuff, is lacking - the standard/expert hireling tables are okay, but not enough to go on for determining what's in the village of Tolgron that the party just stopped by on their way to somewhere else.
So often I find myself wondering in smaller villages who lives there. Is there a cooper? A blacksmith? How about a lumber mill? Or a candlemaker?
Clearly not every small town has all of these things, but I don't even have a good mental list of what all the occupations are, never mind which ones are always present vs. usually, sometimes, or rarely present.
There are some "non rpg" books that cover this/these topics. But it's kind of hard to find these books - and harder to extract the numbers and information from them that you really need.
So yes, would be good to have in a RPG Sourcebook.
Say, I bet exactly that sort of thing is in either one of the GURPS books or one of the Chartmaster books.
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One initial goal of the APG, of course, was to put ALL of our generic splat stuff into one book. That way we can not only make sure that it's got balanced options and keep things all in one spot for ease of reference, but don't fall into the insidious trap of power creep.
It remains to be seen if we'll be able to resist not doing lots of this type of book, of course. I hope we can.
It's okay to do splats. It's better to do them maybe once a year, as opposed to the many many times throughout a year.
Currently, the way you guys are handling prestige classes seem fine. More use for skills and more feats are probably okay, but less prestige classes seems the best route so far.
Beyond a epic level book and a psionics book, I'd rather Pathfinder go off in directions that D&D hasn't gone over a million times already.So, this is a good question. I have heard a number of people talk about taking Pathfinder in directions that D&D hasn't gone before. I have done a lot of brainstorms on this topic and it is really hard to find ideas for books that haven't already been done during the 30+ year history of D&D.
So, what are ideas for products that haven't been done a million times before?
-Lisa
It's been sort of done, just never on a larger scale. And that is to steer away from the generic Euro-flavored settings and bring more support for areas that are more African, Arabian Nights, Aztec/Mayan, Oriental Adventures, Egyptian, Undersea, Outer Space (Paizo's own "spelljammer" setting), etc. It seems places like medieval England, Norway, and Greek settings have been completely done to death and a concentration on those other fantasy settings working side-by-side with the generic Euro-flavor setting would be more appealing. I'd say the OA setting would definitely come in a good 2nd-place.
Now, I see Paizo has been doing this with their Companion books and such. But I am talking more generic. Like how 3E Oriental Adventures was, just minus the Rokugan stuff. Or keep it Golarion, but make it so anyone can use it for a more homebrew game.
I hate I got into thie thread late, but I have heard so many people talk about the complete series as over-powered splat that makes the DM's job very difficult. I must reply to this and this seems the right place.
Experienced players usually plan their character through every level (or have a plan) so that the GM can create the content and character story arcs for them. This means knowing, in advance, what the player plans and what books he will be accessing and probable feats.
Are GM's to lazy to read the content? I mean, if you want to run a game that is basic and has very little diversity in class options, then run 4E.
I know this might come off as abrasive, but I have held my tongue long enough. People posting that "The coplete books are splat that over power the game in the players favor" rubs me wrong, and I am a GM.
A good game starts as a cooperative effort of player and GM. Dont reject the completes just because you read this thread and saw 15 people saying they overpower a game. Have fun with them. Let your players explore those books and enjoy
Thanks for letting me rant. :D
CC
I agree with you. I allow all my 3.5e material from WotC, Dragon Magazine, some of Pathfinder's (the ones that don't contradict WotC's, that is), some Dreamscarred Press and Malhavoc Press for psionic material, Book of Eldritch Might from Malhavoc Press, and a tiny sprinkle of a few other 3pp (like the Pact Magic book, perfect for extra Binder stuff from Tome of Magic and very compatible).
And I don't get that "power creep" everyone cries about. First of all, as a DM, you are the one says what stays and goes. Simple. Establish that right away, and no one can debate it at a later point. Also, whatever the hell the players have access to, their enemies do also. Yeah, I may have a PC with a 13th-level character that can get his AC into the mid-40s, but I can easily make a CR 13 monster with an attack bonus that easily beats AC 60. The numbers don't matter if you know what you're doing.
Which is what I believe is the real problem. DMs are not worried about power creep. I believe that's a masked statement to hide the fact that what they really don't want to do is read and memorize a whole new set of rules just to be "in the know" and make sure the PC isn't fudging him/her.
Prime example, I wanted to make a psionic character for someone's game. First, we had to argue how 3.5 psionics isn't anymore or less broken than what I can easily accomplish with a Cleric and Wizard. When I was winning the debate and he was clearly lacking rebuttals, it came down to the truth. He just didn't want to read the Expanded Psionics Handbook. And apparently must not have trusted me enough for me to take care of the rulings myself, to make it less of a burden for him.
I've come to learn this was the case with many DMs.
Psionics is being done by Dreamscarred
I'd personally like to see a Paizo-produced psionics sourcebook. I can't be the only one.
Psionics is being done by DreamscarredI'd personally like to see a Paizo-produced psionics sourcebook. I can't be the only one.
Why duplicate the effort? Paizo have always been a bit lukewarm on psionics, I understand, and not everybody likes them anyway - some have problems with the fluff ("Too science fiction!") or the mechanics ("Magic without having to use any components and no spell failure chance!" "The Power Points are broken!") whether rightly or wrongly. If another company is already catering to that group of Pathfinder players, it doesn't make sense for Paizo to waste effort in that direction.
Psionics is being done by DreamscarredI'd personally like to see a Paizo-produced psionics sourcebook. I can't be the only one.Why duplicate the effort? Paizo have always been a bit lukewarm on psionics, I understand, and not everybody likes them anyway - some have problems with the fluff ("Too science fiction!") or the mechanics ("Magic without having to use any components and no spell failure chance!" "The Power Points are broken!") whether rightly or wrongly. If another company is already catering to that group of Pathfinder players, it doesn't make sense for Paizo to waste effort in that direction.
I disagree with you I want to see Paizos take on it because they will be different Dreamscarred I have a feeling will do them very similar to 3.5 Psionics because they already produced some for 3.5
So, what are ideas for products that haven't been done a million times before?
-Lisa
Just brainstorming here. No particular order and not really thought out:
A series of books on locations. Each book has 4 or 5 locations in detail, maps, npc's, mundane items, special items (maybe). Locations like a mill shop with a water wheel, a stable, a small shop, a trading post, a wizards laboratory, a small town jail, etc. Mundane location make a city come to life.
A book on trade. Example caravans, barges, trading ships, etc. Rules for buying and selling for a better deal.
Articles or stuff on alternate ways for magic. I think of Harry Potter (wands), Tolkien (wizard staffs) and Terry Brooks (elfstones). One alternate is that magic works through something.
Environment books - not like frostburn or sandstorm - like deep jungles (hazards, specialty plants, different weather), all air campaign, etc.
Adventures where a lot of the action is different - ie you can actually spot some one at a long distance, make plans or use feats like far shot. Open plain fighting on horse back - see those lances really used. Opportunities to set against a charge.
I know it's been done, but one of my favorite things was racial class substitution levels from the Races Of series. They added flavor, gave you a reason to play a single class in some cases (Paizo has solved that one). And yes, made some classes a little more over powered. But I loved them. Wish they were legal for PFS.
Another thing, common people minis and rules for situations with lots of people around. I'd love to run an adventure in the town market where I could have 50+ common people, horses, tents, carts etc. and have the PCs chasing the villain through the market. You could really see that shooting an arrow, casting web, etc. would cause a lot of problems.
It's late, I'm tired but I'm just trying to spark an idea in someones head.
-Swiftbrook
<snark>a book of how to draw maps that don't suck</snark>.
More seriously, how did White Wolf's year of the X do? I'd love to see...
"Year of War." Book dealing with Akiton, mass combat rules, airships and firearms (both Alkenstar and Akiton's flechette rifles). Beastiary dealing with interstellar threats and Akiton's natural critters. Module or two dealing with Akiton. AP dealing with a small sized army, maybe something like Kingmaker but carving out an empire.
"Year of the Mind." PPH (Pathfinder Psion's Handbook) with the point based system, and a note in the back how to convert to Vancian casting and how to convert casters to point based. Anti-psi tactics and anti-magic tactics also. AP could deal with a Runelord style conflict orchestrated by a Castrovel Elan. (Feel free to take my 'Elans as Azlanti survivors' bit) Modules could include a 'trip to the green' or the green comes to Golarion. Bestiary could be chalk full of psionic goodness (put either the base write up or the psionic write up in 8 point font in the monster entry, like in the Darkland's book)
"Year of the Divine" Epic level handbook, immortals level handbook, Epic Bestiary multi part module for 'test of the starstone' and a high-to-epic level AP.
edit: forgot...
"Year of the First World" Some more info on the first world, big book of Fae (could do a Savage Species like book with fae and others) Fae heavy Bestiary, more gnome stuff, and an AP dealing with a 'hole' between the First World and the current. (feel free to put Kirby Kontent in there as well)
and of course...
Year of Jade. Just don't leave India out like so many do.
Well Mr, RPG Superstar Top 4, get busy ;)
And I don't get that "power creep" everyone cries about. First of all, as a DM, you are the one says what stays and goes. Simple. Establish that right away, and no one can debate it at a later point. Also, whatever the hell the players have access to, their enemies do also. Yeah, I may have a PC with a 13th-level character that can get his AC into the mid-40s, but I can easily make a CR 13 monster with an attack bonus that easily beats AC 60. The numbers don't matter if you know...
The problem with 1 player have AC40, and a monster having +30 to hit even, is what about the other players with only a 22-25 AC? It's power creep, it unbalances the game...
I disagree with you I want to see Paizos take on it because they will be different Dreamscarred I have a feeling will do them very similar to 3.5 Psionics because they already produced some for 3.5
Exactly. To keep with the Pathfinder theme of backward-compatibility, you'd have to produce a system similar to the 3.5 system. Currently, you can update any 3.5 character to Pathfinder with no real loss of features. Why should psionic characters be any different?
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I disagree with you I want to see Paizos take on it because they will be different Dreamscarred I have a feeling will do them very similar to 3.5 Psionics because they already produced some for 3.5Exactly. To keep with the Pathfinder theme of backward-compatibility, you'd have to produce a system similar to the 3.5 system. Currently, you can update any 3.5 character to Pathfinder with no real loss of features. Why should psionic characters be any different?
See, that's why I think a hybrid book would be better. Untapped potential is 'only' about 178 pages, the Bestiary is 330. I think Paizo could revamp the XPH (or just fold DSP's Pathfinder XPH) into a hardback and include a "Psionics as Vancian casters" in the back and a "Spell casting points system" and not break 200 pages. Heck, I'm expecting to pay $50-60 MSRP for a Paizo Psionics anyway.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Well Mr, RPG Superstar Top 4, get busy ;)<snark>a book of how to draw maps that don't suck</snark>.
More seriously, how did White Wolf's year of the X do? I'd love to see...
"Year of War." Book dealing with Akiton, mass combat rules, airships and firearms (both Alkenstar and Akiton's flechette rifles). Beastiary dealing with interstellar threats and Akiton's natural critters. Module or two dealing with Akiton. AP dealing with a small sized army, maybe something like Kingmaker but carving out an empire.
"Year of the Mind." PPH (Pathfinder Psion's Handbook) with the point based system, and a note in the back how to convert to Vancian casting and how to convert casters to point based. Anti-psi tactics and anti-magic tactics also. AP could deal with a Runelord style conflict orchestrated by a Castrovel Elan. (Feel free to take my 'Elans as Azlanti survivors' bit) Modules could include a 'trip to the green' or the green comes to Golarion. Bestiary could be chalk full of psionic goodness (put either the base write up or the psionic write up in 8 point font in the monster entry, like in the Darkland's book)
"Year of the Divine" Epic level handbook, immortals level handbook, Epic Bestiary multi part module for 'test of the starstone' and a high-to-epic level AP.
edit: forgot...
"Year of the First World" Some more info on the first world, big book of Fae (could do a Savage Species like book with fae and others) Fae heavy Bestiary, more gnome stuff, and an AP dealing with a 'hole' between the First World and the current. (feel free to put Kirby Kontent in there as well)
and of course...
Year of Jade. Just don't leave India out like so many do.
That's Mr. RPG Superstar Top 8, and there might be maps involved. ;-)
I disagree with you I want to see Paizos take on it because they will be different Dreamscarred I have a feeling will do them very similar to 3.5 Psionics because they already produced some for 3.5Psionics is being done by DreamscarredI'd personally like to see a Paizo-produced psionics sourcebook. I can't be the only one.Why duplicate the effort? Paizo have always been a bit lukewarm on psionics, I understand, and not everybody likes them anyway - some have problems with the fluff ("Too science fiction!") or the mechanics ("Magic without having to use any components and no spell failure chance!" "The Power Points are broken!") whether rightly or wrongly. If another company is already catering to that group of Pathfinder players, it doesn't make sense for Paizo to waste effort in that direction.
Yeah let dreamscarred do the point based stuff, I really want to see paizo take on psionics and not use power points. I would love to see them make a psionic book I can use with core with little issue without having to know a totally new system.
So yeah my vote would be to see paizo do something with psionics. Folks that like the current rules have dreamscarred.
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That's Mr. RPG Superstar Top 8, and there might be maps involved. ;-)Well Mr, RPG Superstar Top 4, get busy ;)<snark>a book of how to draw maps that don't suck</snark>.
More seriously, how did White Wolf's year of the X do? I'd love to see...
"Year of War." Book dealing with Akiton, mass combat rules, airships and firearms (both Alkenstar and Akiton's flechette rifles). Beastiary dealing with interstellar threats and Akiton's natural critters. Module or two dealing with Akiton. AP dealing with a small sized army, maybe something like Kingmaker but carving out an empire.
"Year of the Mind." PPH (Pathfinder Psion's Handbook) with the point based system, and a note in the back how to convert to Vancian casting and how to convert casters to point based. Anti-psi tactics and anti-magic tactics also. AP could deal with a Runelord style conflict orchestrated by a Castrovel Elan. (Feel free to take my 'Elans as Azlanti survivors' bit) Modules could include a 'trip to the green' or the green comes to Golarion. Bestiary could be chalk full of psionic goodness (put either the base write up or the psionic write up in 8 point font in the monster entry, like in the Darkland's book)
"Year of the Divine" Epic level handbook, immortals level handbook, Epic Bestiary multi part module for 'test of the starstone' and a high-to-epic level AP.
edit: forgot...
"Year of the First World" Some more info on the first world, big book of Fae (could do a Savage Species like book with fae and others) Fae heavy Bestiary, more gnome stuff, and an AP dealing with a 'hole' between the First World and the current. (feel free to put Kirby Kontent in there as well)
and of course...
Year of Jade. Just don't leave India out like so many do.
Maybe he knows something we don't Matt <evil laugh>
As an aside to Lisa, I for one would LOVE envioronment book/s.
These would be better than having to research through 30 or so APs to find a small detail about,say the Cinderlands/ Storval plateau.
IMOHO a big book covering environs : Storval , Mushfens, desserts of Garund, would be just AWESOME and compile the info in one tome.
I also like the idea of fleshing out the "other side " of Golarion, Tian , Vudra ,et. al. so if the PCs REALLY want a change of pace DMs don't have to read your fantasticly creative minds ( not sucking up too much ) and predict what you want for these areas. On a more capitalistic note BOTH these books would sell to players as well as DMs . I know I would happily buy them.
In the campaign I am currently running we have found great use of the UNDEFEATABLE products. Easily purchased from Paizo, which I used to update the NPCs from COCT to PFRG status ( this is often limited to adding a feat or two but my players were shocked (How is he doing more dam. every round ?!).
Finally (I know you're saying he's not done YET!) I would , in a cold minute buy a PDF of the "official feats and traits of Golarion" .
By this I mean if you fine people could have some slave....err I mean intern or someone like that, compile a list of the feats and traits published so far in APs and other rulebooks , and then sell this as a PDF with occasional (read semi-annual ) updates.
I again would be high on the subcribers list.
Thanks for the space.
AA
By this I mean if you fine people could have some slave....err I mean intern or someone like that, compile a list of the feats and traits published so far in APs and other rulebooks , and then sell this as a PDF with occasional (read semi-annual ) updates.
I again would be high on the subcribers list.
+1 for a book that gathers all the random feats, spells, character traits, other tidbits, ect from all over Pathfinder into one concise place.
See, that's why I think a hybrid book would be better. Untapped potential is 'only' about 178 pages, the Bestiary is 330. I think Paizo could revamp the XPH (or just fold DSP's Pathfinder XPH) into a hardback and include a "Psionics as Vancian casters" in the back and a "Spell casting points system" and not break 200 pages. Heck, I'm expecting to pay $50-60 MSRP for a Paizo Psionics anyway.
That's an interesting idea.
Yeah let dreamscarred do the point based stuff, I really want to see paizo take on psionics and not use power points. I would love to see them make a psionic book I can use with core with little issue without having to know a totally new system.
So yeah my vote would be to see paizo do something with psionics. Folks that like the current rules have dreamscarred.
Yes, we've had this conversation before. I don't see how two competing systems (which is what you would have) would leave anyone happy. I don't see how breaking backward compatibility all of a sudden becomes a good idea, either. The real problem is, some people absolutely love psionics as it is in 3.5, and some hate them with a passion. If you please one group, you will likely win the ire of the other.
I think that Matthew's idea above is the best compromise, but I can see that simply not taking off because whoever buys it will get half a book of rules they don't like and won't use. On the other hand, it would at least allow psionics to be used a little more easily within published adventures.
My own feeling is: If you don't like psionics, don't use them. If you do, use a backward compatible set of rules - that, after all, is what Pathfinder is all about.
So, this is a good question. I have heard a number of people talk about taking Pathfinder in directions that D&D hasn't gone before. I have done a lot of brainstorms on this topic and it is really hard to find ideas for books that haven't already been done during the 30+ year history of D&D.
So, what are ideas for products that haven't been done a million times before?
-Lisa
Brainstorming so this isn't probably going to be pretty...
Clergy....heirarchy of each clergy type both single city and world views. Including "honorary" titles. Code of Conduct for Paladins of each religion. Druidic versions listed as well.
Imports/Exports...what items does each city or region use/ship, cost of running a caravan and/or guards or shipping routes and trade lines. How much can be made this way?
Empire building, mass combat rules. Costs for buildings, and workers, what types of buildings are typical for a village, town, city...and based on location. Costs of running a tavern, or shoppe and monies earned and growing a business. Creating and running guilds and/or organizations, and the benefits and hinderances of such.
Yes, we've had this conversation before. I don't see how two competing systems (which is what you would have) would leave anyone happy. I don't see how breaking backward compatibility all of a sudden becomes a good idea, either. The real problem is, some people absolutely love psionics as it is in 3.5, and some hate them with a passion. If you please one group, you will likely win the ire of the other.
Eh so your option is to tell dreamscarred not to make a useless book eh? Seems a bit harsh don't ya think?
I really do not see them competing at all. Dreamscarred caters to the small group that love the current system. They are willing and able to support that system.
I do not see how this effects paizo in any way. If a 3pp company wants to put out alt rules then they may do so, that does not effect what paizo will put out. It has been covered more then a few times why the 3.5 xph rules do not work for paizo's needs, and why they most likly will not be useing such rules.
It has nothing to do with backward compatibility..as you can still use your 3.5 rules. Backward compatibility does not mean "everything we make from now on must be just like what came before" . It means "you can use your older stuff with little effort" so that has zero baring on what paizo does with psionics.
I am just not getting your logic here.
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Brainstorming so this isn't probably going to be pretty...Clergy....heirarchy of each clergy type both single city and world views. Including "honorary" titles. Code of Conduct for Paladins of each religion. Druidic versions listed as well.
Imports/Exports...what items does each city or region use/ship, cost of running a caravan and/or guards or shipping routes and trade lines. How much can be made this way?
Empire building, mass combat rules. Costs for buildings, and workers, what types of buildings are typical for a village, town, city...and based on location. Costs of running a tavern, or shoppe and monies earned and growing a business. Creating and running guilds and/or organizations, and the benefits and hinderances of such.
Excellent stuff! Agree 100%
And to expand on the last part of what he said: typical armories/wealth/resources of said guilds/cults/churches, etc. Could be based on total numbers, power level of leaders - similar to resources assigned to communities.
I have had some MAJOR issues with D&D going back to the 70's-80's concerning towns, cities and urban living. Bear with me -
How does access to real magic in everyday life affect the lives of normal people? In a town would there be a small market for wards to prevent someone from casting sleep or using invisibilty to get into your shop or home? How would they work? Scale that up with castles, keeps, important bases - dealing with Fly or Teleport. That goes to the same about mass combat, warfare, etc in an age of magic, even low-powered magic. I know there are certain higher level spells that ward locations but there really isn't a solution at every economic level to counter threats be they real or imagined. These issues have never been addressed in every edition of D&D and now PF, they are just sort of hand waved off as an off-screen concern.
And yes, what Segallion said about expanding orders, titles - more details on guilds, Drudic orders, Bard schools.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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[It has nothing to do with backward compatibility..as you can still use your 3.5 rules. Backward compatibility does not mean "everything we make from now on must be just like what came before" . It means "you can use your older stuff with little effort" so that has zero baring on what paizo does with psionics.
I am just not getting your logic here.
If I may?
To use the 'backwards compatibility' argument. If a Paizo Psionic Handbook (PPH) didn't use the point system, and had the Psion and the Soulknife, then it's not a 'little effort' to bring the Wilder and Psychic warrior into play. That's a bit different than saying "Ok, in the PPH Mindthrust only does d8 damage, but allows a save for half."
I'll point out the flaw of the psionic attack/defense modes in the original psionic handbook is that by taking one level of a psionic class you suddenly became vulnerable to a whole slew of attacks no one else is.
As to 'half a book' in my hybrid suggestion, how many pages did the spell points mechanics fill up for Arcane/divine casters in Unearthed Arcana? It will take even less, as the scaling and metacap will be in the front of the book. To reverse it will take the opposite direction, so for example, "first level powers will automatically scale, to a max of 5dx damage, (so mind thrust would top out at 5d8 for a 5th level psion). Second level powers will scale, maxing out at XdX damage..." I'd bet it could be in 10 pages, 15 max if you put in art of the PPH iconic psion frying the brain of Kyra or similar things). For folks who don't want psionics, they won't buy it. For folks who do, I doubt they'd mind 10-15 pages of junk. ;-)