We need to bring some nymphs and dryads to help us celebrate.
I don't think I've ever seen a thread go so completely and horribly off-topic in the Pathfinder RPG General boards before. Color me impressed.
Well, color me an impressed-shade of gold, anyways.
I think we all nearly simultaneously and unanimously agreed the thread had run its course. There was nothing left to say. There was no topic anymore.
Besides, we got to destroy a car...
This feeling is almost like toppling the Berlin Wall.
I hate it when you try to make a verbal distinction, and people say its just "semantics".Then make sure there really is a distinction. In this case, there is none.
I agree with A Man In Black.
Now I have to go light my face on fire.
Well, I had a reply to Auxmaulous, but after, like, two pages of pie and fart-lighting... why bother?
DM Fiat is no more. This forum has taken on a myriad of new forms. It has (d)evolved.
So new forum strategy. Make the last post, then start a chain of fart jokes. Your post is the last on topic post, and then the thread is completely derailed. If your post goes unrefuted clearly you win the internets.
Looks like a few spirits are still lingering. Let's take care of that.
but after, like, two pages of pie and fart-lighting... why bother?Well, it's one way to shut down a thread.
And they say that the DM and the PCs are equals at the table? Such utopian fallacies have fallen under the grasp of dystopia. And the Fiat has been tossed over the cliff.
Reductio Ad Absurdum, my friends.
Wait V just got here.
No it only works if it happens organically.
So the subject of the fart joke may only eat free range chicken, and home grown vegetables?
It depends what you use for fertilizer.No it only works if it happens organically.So the subject of the fart joke may only eat free range chicken, and home grown vegetables?
Fishy poop and chicken poop works real good.
I have a sneaking suspicion that the Paizo folks have taken the day off from the message boards. I don't blame them.
Maybe it's just the bad/non intuitive board design is dissuading them from going through something so long.
I hate it when you try to make a verbal distinction, and people say its just "semantics".Then make sure there really is a distinction. In this case, there is none.
You didn't bother to draw him out enough to discover if there was a substantive distinction, you just employed a slap down strategy. You may also find that that doesn't work with me.
Ah-hahahaha!
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I think they rather are just avoiding specific threads on purpose.I have a sneaking suspicion that the Paizo folks have taken the day off from the message boards. I don't blame them.
James J. was all over dm reference threads about 30 minutes ago. I was thinking though, sometimes the staff there just has to look at threads like this one (in the past hr at least) and just shake their heads in bewilderment.
edit: amused bewilderment at that.
Maybe it's just the bad/non intuitive board design is dissuading them from going through something so long.
Yeah. I would totally do a new stylesheet for these boards for like zero dollars if they'd let me.
Blah to both of you, and your "semantic" theory of meaning. Syntactic meaning all the way! Deductivism rules! Long live Frege and Russell!!You didn't bother to draw him out enough to discover if there was a substantive distinction, you just employed a slap down strategy. You may also find that that doesn't work with me, either.I hate it when you try to make a verbal distinction, and people say its just "semantics".Then make sure there really is a distinction. In this case, there is none.
It doesn't matter. It always goes like this:
Arguer #1: Stuff
Arguer #2: Bah! Semantics!
Arguer #1: Words have meaning!
Arguer #2: So does your mom's FACE!
/threadclose
Arguer #1: Stuff
Arguer #2: Bah! Semantics!
Arguer #1: Words have meaning!
Arguer #2: So does your mom's FACE!
/threadclose
Arguer#2 sounds like an idiot. ;)
I can see people objecting to DM fiat in the context of theoretical discussions of mechanics or abusive DMs/GMs. But if the DM is committed to player fun, doesn't that come before some abstract sense of fairness or transparency?
+1 and ABSOLUTELY.
Fun comes FAR before the rules. Besides, it's written in the book that you should do so.
The level of detail is the providence of the DM and players. I would agree 4E does not provide specific details via previous editions for creating magic items, etc. but it also has the flexibility to add these as necessary. But honestly, I am more driven by story line, as specific rules for item creation, etc. just remind me of the various tasks I need to perform in real life.
I also played GURPS, and previous editions of D&D, RuneQuest, etc. and never got into the nitty gritty of item creation or magic shops. Yet I see this as a very important element for some players. Much like online gaming, certain individuals are driven to craft items or use auction houses.
I am not sure how this relates to DM fiat, except for preferences on detail between a DM and player. But typically there is a natural selection process, where you will stick with a game that supports your preference.
Small detail, Uchawi: I think you mean provenance, rather than providence. I once waxed an elephant on providence in an old thread, so I started to respond, but then saw you were going a different direction. Also, welcome, as you look new. You must really want to discuss this after all the dynamite we laid along the tracks!
K-R: talent? I don't know, it was getting a little too unpleasant for my tastes.
Fun comes FAR before the rules. Besides, it's written in the book that you should do so.
Paizo's designers are as wise as they are wicked in the humor department. I mean...making it a rule. Are you also new? Lots of new folks.
How do you guys manage to turn a deep, insightful discussion into an off-topic style random thread?
Once deep insightful discussions start beating dead horses and smoke starts to billow from the corners, that's when the silliness begins.
Feel lucky the blue fellows didn't appear. That's a sure sign of impending thread lockdown.
How do you guys manage to turn a deep, insightful discussion into an off-topic style random thread?
You must learn the ways of the farce, young padawan. Only then will you discover the true meaning of thread hubris.
Wait, I thought farce was meant to deflate thread hubris. You aren't being profound, are you Urizen?
The new guy is turning the thread into a meaningful discussion quick some one light a match and lets blow this sucker into the sky. BURN BABY BURN...
Mysterions, mein frond. Mysterions.
You have learned well young Urizen you too are now a wise Fishy.
Thanks for the welcome and the correction on grammar, but I see alot of side tracks on various posts in reference to different systems (strengths and weaknesses). I know I am in the minority in regards to 4E, and my intent is not to put salt on a wound, or light up the burners, but I feel compelled to respond when a reference is made to it. I will state what I like and don't like about any of the systems I played and as stated on other posts I prefer GURPS; except it is a pain to manage as a DM (don't have enough time).
I am still trying to get the mood of this site and what is taboo, versus items that are accepted for open discussion. Only time will grant me the wisdom to keep my comments to myself.
You have learned well young Urizen you too are now a wise Fishy.
You humble me, Mr. Fishy.
House Rules are rules made by the GM to make the game run in the manner that they wish (for effect, story, feel, logic, balance or other). They need to be agreed upon by the group but there is no need for discussion by the group. Most certainly they can be debated but by no means must the GM bend to the player(s)'s opinion.
True:
Gaming is a shared experience.
The game should be about fun (for everyone).
Everyone has responsibilities.
The GM and Players are equals outside the game.
The GM and Players (as a whole) are equals inside the game.
The GM should discuss his decisions with the players if the so wish.
False:
The GM and Players have equal responsibilities.
The GM has to discuss his decisions.
The players' desires, choices and wishes are more important then the GM's.
The GM can do whatever he wants.
GMs have more responsibilities then players do. They are the linch pin of the game.
Edit: Dammit I just posted a serious post in no-man's tangent land.
Language is arbitrary and oppressive! It needs more rules to fix it!
*choke* LOL!
I am still trying to get the mood of this site and what is taboo, versus items that are accepted for open discussion. Only time will grant me the wisdom to keep my comments to myself.
I did a lot of observation for several months before I got my feet wet. Just post a little bit here and there and eventually people will pick up and respond. I confess that it may get a little zany at times based on how moderation is not as rigid as other sites, but a lot of it is done by self-policing even if the casual observer doesn't necessarily pick up on it. But like any other place, the moderaters will surface and clean up the clutter or swing the banhammer if they have to.
But seriously, it's good to have you aboard! Just be careful entering the shallow end of the pool. ;)
Edit: Dammit I just posted a serious post in no-man's tangent land.
Quick! Gather your phylactery before the tangents seize it!
Don't worry about it Uchawi. I don't think I'd say you are in the minority here, but we like to both keep the peace and allow people to have their own opinions on systems, editions, etc. On the one hand, some people are here because they like both, on the other, there are some folks who will jump on any excuse to expotate (purposeful neologism) on how those who don't like 4e are a minority and try to squash them. If you feel like anyone is doing the latter, feel free to flag them and ignore them. Just as background, we went through some rough times here during the edition wars, so we're trying to put that behind us and keep it in mind even when we are tempted to vent our frustrations about some of the things we went through. As long as you express yourself in a way that is not meant to insult, or get drawn into defending your opinions, I'd say you should be fine. This may be more than needed, but just thought I'd offer, for what it's worth.
Just be careful entering the shallow end of the pool.
Was that a personal attack?
Say what you feel Uchawi and expect the same. Mr. Fishy doesn't like 4th but that does make Mr. Fishy better than you. Being Mr. Fishy makes me better than you, liking 4th makes us different.
Which is a good thing because Mr. Fishy is like pepper a little is nice, alot is a a sneezing fit, burning eyes and a mess.
Mr. Fishy goes to sleep at night to escape the Fishyness of being Mr. Fishy.
If any one trys to flame you tell them your tier Fishy that really pisses people off.
I figured we have progressed long enough on this planet that we are all civilized, so I will bring a pair of flippers and wade into the deep end, but honestly, most of my posts are ignored.
But I also tend to generalize, and do not like the idea of quoting specific sentences from others and making an argument based on it, because it is very easy to loose the context of the entire post. So I can see where my reponses tend to come out from left field.
But too much side tracking, so I will wait for the next discussion topic.
Just be careful entering the shallow end of the pool.Was that a personal attack?
Not a chance, Mr. Fishy. Sometimes there are genes in the shallow end that were never meant to be swam in. That's why the Fiat had to be pushed off the cliff. As well, Professor Leafy said it much more eloquently than I could.
Thanks for the welcome and the correction on grammar, but I see alot of side tracks on various posts in reference to different systems (strengths and weaknesses). I know I am in the minority in regards to 4E, and my intent is not to put salt on a wound, or light up the burners, but I feel compelled to respond when a reference is made to it. I will state what I like and don't like about any of the systems I played and as stated on other posts I prefer GURPS; except it is a pain to manage as a DM (don't have enough time).
I am still trying to get the mood of this site and what is taboo, versus items that are accepted for open discussion. Only time will grant me the wisdom to keep my comments to myself.
Everything is up for discussion. It's just that some people are neverwrong. Don't feel bad about it.
How do you guys manage to turn a deep, insightful discussion into an off-topic style random thread?Once deep insightful discussions start beating dead horses and smoke starts to billow from the corners, that's when the silliness begins.
Feel lucky the blue fellows didn't appear. That's a sure sign of impending thread lockdown.
Smurf it, who summons me?
Could we just flame an edition war until the thread gets locked?
[flamebait]
Your Ed is teh suk! Only 'tards play that! Our Ed roxx! Look at our leet skillz! You and your parent company of dung-heads couldn't RP your way out of an open doorway, and I bet you have carnal knowledge of your siblings!
[/flamebait]
Well, I'm so old school, that when I started gaming, we didn't use any of your fancy stuff like miniatures or gamemats. Heck we didn't even have things like your scientificly advanced technology like books and paper. We didn't even upgrade to the papyrus. We sat around the fire and told our DM what we wanted to do and he used only fiat, because we hadn't even invented righting to keep track of the rules. We couldn't count, numbers hadn't been invented, so rolling dice was too fancy for us. If you really had to see what your character was fighting, the DM might draw one on the side of the cave. We fought a lot of bison in those days.