Let's say we have a weapon with the Coating rune on it. The rules say that
Effect For 1 minute, you can apply stored oils and poisons to the weapon without needing any hands free. Applying them takes the same number of actions as normal. An oil or poison applied this way pours directly from the extradimensional space onto the weapon, and when it's fully applied, its empty vial is ejected.
Let's say I have a posion stored inside and I have already activated the rune. Applying the poison is normally a 2-action activity with the manipulation trait. It\s clear that it still is a 2-action activity, but does it still have manipulate trait, since now I can do it without using hands and it's just directly poured from an extradimensional space?
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No, that activation doesn't have the manipulate trait.
Applying poisons in the usual manner has the manipulate trait because it requires an interact action.
Activating the rune is a command activation so it doesn't add the manipulate trait.
For more confirmation, earlier in the description they explicitly state that activating the rune does not require an interact action.
Stowing or retrieving an item in the space requires an Interact action, except when using the rune's activation.
So you are good to go. :)
I wasn't asking about activating the rune.
Activating the rune is a one-action command activity, yes, but it doesn't coat the wepaon with poison right away. It only allows to coat it later (within 1 minute), and the coating takes "the same number of actions as normal", which is usually two.
And I'm asking about this second activity, the using of stored poison. The command to activate the rune is already in the past, the rune is active and I'm spending those two addictional actions to apply the poison. It's not an Interact activity, as you pointed out, so yeah, I don't see a reason to say that it would have manipulate trait. But I'm not convinced that it requires a second command (which woud give it auditory and concentrate traits).
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So this rune is a little weird.
At first I thought activating it applied the poison for you...but it doesn't.
It allows you to apply the poison with free hands. So basically it's exactly the same as when you would regularly apply poison, but you don't need to draw the vial or have it in hand, and you don't need hands to apply it to your weapon either. But it still takes the normal number of actions, and is otherwise completely like doing it as though you had the poison in hand and pretend like you had enough extra hands to hold your weapon, the poison vial, and anything else you already held, and extra hands to apply the poison (although that hand and the hand holding the vial might be the same).
Now...since you don't need hands to apply the poison I would say the action should lose the manipulate trait, but raw it doesn't explicitly say that. However, I think that's more an oversight.
In short, is this rune useful for those who want to use two-handed poisoned weapons, and saves them a single action?
(Activate instead of Draw + Regrip)?
Theoretically? Definitely not worth the rune slot though, especially when installing an injection reservoir is right there as a better option.
Retcon:
In short, is this rune useful for those who want to use two-handed oiled and/or poisoned weapons, and saves them a single action?
(Activate instead of Draw + Regrip)?
I guess you're re-asking almost the same question, to emphasize the potential use of weapon oils?
I think the answer remains no. In general losing a rune property slot isn't going to be worth it. Poisons aren't generally good, unless you're an alchemist and can modify the DC. Oils are also very circumstantial and also not worth it.
Generally, it's not a tactic I'd consistently employ. There might be some specific niche situation where it makes sense, but not generally.
I think the answer remains no. In general losing a rune property slot isn't going to be worth it. Poisons aren't generally good, unless you're an alchemist and can modify the DC. Oils are also very circumstantial and also not worth it.
Generally, it's not a tactic I'd consistently employ. There might be some specific niche situation where it makes sense, but not generally.
For a melee Toxicologist, it can be ok if you're running into a lot of baddies that can react to Manipulate triggers [and regularly has combats where they are attacking such creatures 3+ times with poison]. It can give them 12 poison attack without having to pull out more poison [1 from weapon, 1 from injector, 10 from rune]. That seems to be the most likely niche IMO. Plus if you're close to your Bulk limit, it saves you 1 Bulk.
Another use is for Bane Oil, Burial Oil, Ghost Oil, Merciful Balm, Oil of Swiftness, ect. You can essentially have a rune you can switch to whatever situational rune you want every fight for a fairly cheap cost [or free with Cauldron]. So you just have to toss a well-rounded collection of oils into it and when you find yourself fighting a ghost, need to capture someone alive, have a mobile foe and need swiftness, ect and you're ready to go. I can see this rune being much useful than a static Ghost Touch, Bane, Vitalizing, ect rune if you are fighting different types of creatures all the time.
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Retcon:
In short, is this rune useful for those who want to use two-handed oiled and/or poisoned weapons, and saves them a single action?
(Activate instead of Draw + Regrip)?
I guess you're re-asking almost the same question, to emphasize the potential use of weapon oils?
I think the answer remains no. In general losing a rune property slot isn't going to be worth it. Poisons aren't generally good, unless you're an alchemist and can modify the DC. Oils are also very circumstantial and also not worth it.
Generally, it's not a tactic I'd consistently employ. There might be some specific niche situation where it makes sense, but not generally.
No no, my question isn't to debate the value of Coating Rune.
It's to understand it's exact benefit.
Which I think is: you can use it to save one action poisoning / oiling a two-handed weapon.
Do I have that right?
I can see this rune being much useful than a static Ghost Touch, Bane, Vitalizing, ect rune if you are fighting different types of creatures all the time.
I would agree that if you find yourself fighting different types of creatures all the time, using oils to replicate the effects isn't bad. But, I haven't experienced campaigns where we frequently encountered so many different kinds of creatures.
Retcon:
In short, is this rune useful for those who want to use two-handed oiled and/or poisoned weapons, and saves them a single action?
(Activate instead of Draw + Regrip)?
I guess you're re-asking almost the same question, to emphasize the potential use of weapon oils?
I think the answer remains no. In general losing a rune property slot isn't going to be worth it. Poisons aren't generally good, unless you're an alchemist and can modify the DC. Oils are also very circumstantial and also not worth it.
Generally, it's not a tactic I'd consistently employ. There might be some specific niche situation where it makes sense, but not generally.
No no, my question isn't to debate the value of Coating Rune.
It's to understand it's exact benefit.
Which I think is: you can use it to save one action poisoning / oiling a two-handed weapon.
Do I have that right?
Well no. That is not technically it's benefit, but that is effectively the result.
Its benefit is that you store up to 1 bulk of oil or poison in an extradimensional space and that you don't need free hands to apply it.
Since there are limited ways to get additional "hands" or appendages or familiars capable of acting like hands you don't necessarily always need an interact action, because you may have had a free "hand" to apply the poison. This might also be because you're a free hand fighter, and generally only have one hand occupied with a weapon. Or other possible reasons.
But in you limited case scenario imagining a character using a two-handed weapon and nothing that would allow them function as though they had an extra hand, then yes, this would allow you to not need to grip your weapon again as an interact action.
But, this rune also saves you having to retrieve the vial of poison or oil, which depending on how you store it is probably an action itself.