I've never killed a PC in my life... corrupt me.
Actually, I'm playing in this and kinda looking forward to it. ;)
Well good for you! Two words of advice: "Backup Character" ;^)
~D
Is this still a work in progress or is it a TPK? I for one would have LOVED to played in this at PaizoCon but was not to be. (Life and work) I would still LOVE to see this done in some way or fashion. Have the original and have DM'd it!:) One of my top 10 adventures! Next to the Temple of Elemental Evil and the Spider Queen series.
To all the peeps... Here are some conversions of A night below and against the giants (NOOOO where near as good as demonsly's)
version of A Night Below
Go to A Night BelowAgainst the Giants
Go to G3
Go to G2
Go to G1
I know it's a bit late, but many thanks for the "Night Below" conversion! It has made my DM breathe a huge sigh of relief, and enabled him to focus on building the campaign's world instead.
Hey there,
The format looks amazing and all the comments about this module makes me really feel like running it for my players whom I will be seeing next month.
Any idea on when this will be completed?
Would it be possible to have a 'base template' of the format you use so I can put my 'blac and white, 2 fonts only' word homebrew stuff in there?
Regards,
GP
Recently added (Feb 20, 2010) -> CITADEL COLDSTEEL, 4. Outer Defenses: Gurdansk
** spoiler omitted **
~D
update?
Recently added (August 08, 2010) -> CITADEL COLDSTEEL, Level 3, Heart of Coldsteel
Sorry for the absence, without the deadline, I took some time off. I'll keep posting this until I'm done.
I haven't done too much QA on this yet so as I fix it, I'll keep it updated. The inquisitor was built off of the alpha so I'll take a look at that first. Duke Kochbiel comes from the old Dragon mags with those awesome articles started by by Ed G.
Enjoy
~D
Would like to say WELCOME BACK! Missed your work. Realize that you have a real job and a life, but missed on what you were doing to upgrade a favorite module of mine. I for one APPRECIATE the work that you have done so far on this! The encounters were GREAT before, but now that are just TOTALLY AWESOME!:) KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!
+1
Silly question for anyone who has the module. How exactly are they supposed to get into areas 11/12 of the final temple? Is it supposed to be connected to area 10?
My group has just entered the temple. They've already faced Geryon twice, the first time they retreated. Second time they were better prepared (elemental protection acid) slew the dracolisk and forced him to retreat. It's exciting to get to the end of this one.
I just ran the fight against the Pit Fiend in a wall. Wow. It was a strange fight and a bit tough. I made the mini room 50x50 for a little more room. I used Guardian Naga stats for the Bone Nagas, just changed the type to undead. I used Pit Fiend stats with a +5 "I'm in a wall" deflection bonus to AC, which I only recommend if your group is as broken as mine. [My party has several artifacts collected, including the Sword of Kas (AKA StarScream), a divine version of a Staff of Power, and the Molars of Vecna.] The dwarven cleric (archivist actually) was killed when I meteor swarmed the group (I forgot to change the damage to ice, but ah well) just before they killed it. The rogue had to UMD the staff to resurrect the dwarf after the fight.
First time I used a Pit Fiend against them. I am a bit surprised they don't have True Seeing or some other way to see invisible. The rogue managed to turn invisible and sneak attack with the Sword of Kas for some serious damage. Next session I will probably wrap things with the inner temple fight against two pit fiends and some lower level devils that escaped previous fights as fodder.
Wow, most impressive daemonslye!
I eagerly await yer next installment!
Recently added (October 23, 2010) -> CITADEL COLDSTEEL, Level 4, The Siege
I keep hacking away at it. Will start on the temple now. I may try to make a few submissions (encounter areas) at a time rather than try to finish the whole thing at once.
Enjoy.
~D
Silly question for anyone who has the module. How exactly are they supposed to get into areas 11/12 of the final temple? Is it supposed to be connected to area 10?
Yes. Imagine areas 11 and 12 sitting right on top of the store room (see the map on page 6 of the module - you'll note the curve of the wall matches the floor in Area 11 in the ruined temple). Area 12 is open to Area 10 - thus one can see the Grand Altar from Area 10.
In the ruined temple, the devils destroyed the stairs and the lower altar - So one must climb or fly up to Area 12 (30ft up).
Make sense? It is kind of confusing the way it is drawn and does not make it too clear in the text. I'll try to make this clearer when I update it.
~D
Holy crap! This thread is awesome!
Are you planning on posting a complete version as a single .pdf once you are done?
As one who helped convert allot of material from 2E to 3.x from Night Below to GDQ to Greyhawk Ruins that it's VERY easy stat and gear wise to go from 2E to 3E within reason.
The problems arise here:
1. Equipment: NPCs are woefully underequipped and undergeared so they are not as "tough" as one may think and drop little treasure or need more gear to give them a fighting chance against appropriate level of PCs. Giving them more loot "breaks" the conversion guidelines.
2. Treasure: Treasure and magic items are few and far between. See 1. for why. If the BBEG had loot it was in some hard to find place and frequently overlooked. When it was found the haul was nowhere near what was "good" for that level of play. It was so bad in Night Below my Players called it "The Lootless Cavern". Random encounters were encouraged to pack in more treasure.
3. Encounter Levels are off the charts: Going from one room in Steading of the Hill Giant chief to another go from a CR7 to a CR17 or higher (main hall with storm giant, giant king his wife, bears oh my!). Balance the overall dungeon? Nope! Not allowed! Run with what you brung only.
4. Classes to fill in HD: Normally 2E folks just gave the monsters more HD. For animals and some critters that worked, no problem. In 3E you could give monsters HD via class level, some required you to go that route. Sometimes the difficulty arose in the stats not matching upto the class that you sure know that Insane Derro had but the module did it a different way. Eventually you just picked one and said "See if this works!"
Conversion rules in 3e were only going from 2e to 3e literally with no additional material and anything added had to be within reason. This policy may now be more relaxed with WOTC focused on 4e and ignoring the 2E to PF treatment. I'm converting a ton of old 3E material involving demons and devils and even that is a nightmare to PF (I'M LOOKING AT YOU MR WARD!).
All in all conversion is a labour of love and dang fun work to do and have everyone use the material you've created. Not many folks want to tackle this stuff and many projects I worked on fell apart by sheer overwhelming "Where do I start OMG!?!?!"
GDQ were always on my plate to convert, someones already done it nicely in 3.x. Going to PF is easy enough to convert. Finding someone to lay it out as nicely as Daemonslye is next to impossible to find :D
GDQ were always on my plate to convert, someones already done it nicely in 3.x. Going to PF is easy enough to convert.
True that. See "page 2" of this thread for a conversion of Hall of the Fire Giant King. Alas, only to 3.5e (the actual link is hidden in there somewhere). Perhaps, one day, I'll get around to a PF conversion.
Needless to say, the kind comments to this thread keep the work a happy affair - I should have some reasonable production through the end of the year.
I certainly have the H series in it's original printed entirety - I've only run H1 and H4 through completion though (with "real" [sometimes screaming] players). The whole of the series feels... What is the word... Insurmountable? Maybe I will try a "mash up" - e.g. a single large module with the most relevant parts brought into a single whole. I'll start taking a look-see.
Thanks again for the input - The Temple awaits.
~D
Your G3 conversion was what I meant for folks to convert over to PF. :D
I certainly have the H series in it's original printed entirety - I've only run H1 and H4 through completion though (with "real" [sometimes screaming] players). The whole of the series feels... What is the word... Insurmountable? Maybe I will try a "mash up" - e.g. a single large module with the most relevant parts brought into a single whole. I'll start taking a look-see.
I'll save you the trouble here as I decided in a Scotch induced haze to print them all out and read them. Rest assured it's "Not That Bad".
The NPCs are easy to convert over, there are barely any traps except in the mines, the monsters are mostly core and done for us.
As long as you safely ignore the BattleSystem rules as being totally uncovertable and out of my scope/league (I'm pointing people to Warpath to use) there's not much in there that's too horrible to do. That and ignoring those 100 level characters or (N)PCs that were created as epic rules are not around...yet.
I already did most of H1 and 2 with notes on the printed material. If you want to get together offline to discuss it I can most certainly do the legwork but you sir are far superior on post production :D.
I only looked briefly but the DC on the magic starved seem a little high... it's only CR 3... no one can make a DC 30 save against it.
hmmm. You're right. I got a little over zealous - In the original module, the caster just saves vs. spell - an easy save for the level of the PCs. Really seems to be more a trap (annoyance) than monster (and a lesson, "don't trust anyone"; But the PC's already knew that).
Changed.
~D
Recently added (Feb 20, 2010) -> CITADEL COLDSTEEL, 4. Outer Defenses: Gurdansk
** spoiler omitted **
~D
everything looks really good man.
Paladin in hell was one of my favorite 2e adventuresCan I make a suggestion though?
Rather than giving Emirikol the arcane bloodline consider the protean bloodline (now available with the APG).
Keep up the good work.
I was playing around with formatting and decided to mock up some pre-gen characters. If I make it to PaizoCon 2011, these will be for use by players. Let me know where I may have borked something. Includes Core Rulebook and APG information.
Meet the Iconics -> CLICK HERE
I tried to stay (mostly) within the lines of character wealth, etc.
~D
(for anyone that's interested, I've also been re-reading 1E rules for fun, and so I took a stab at a conversion to 1E in the same format. Kinda interesting. -> CLICK HERE)
Nice! (How did I miss this until now?)
Was never very happy with the "watery grotto" encounter. Now updated.
Recently added (Nov 21, 2010) -> DEMONWING Area 5.) Watery Grotto (and Area 6)
Was never very happy with the "watery grotto" encounter. Now updated.
Recently added (Nov 21, 2010) -> DEMONWING Area 5.) Watery Grotto (and Area 6)
That place sure messed us up! Terrific work Dave.
Hey daemonslye, got a question for you, and hi it's been a while :).
So im going to be trying to convert the Tomb of the Lizard King while i let the Revenge against the giants chill for a bit (you wouldn't believe the insanity that is that module lol). I was wondering what the best method for tackling this would be, what you've found to be the best methods.
As always... Were do you find your Fonts and symbols and settings for your stuff, very impressive. Anyway, lots of great stuff man, hope to see more :)
So im going to be trying to convert the Tomb of the Lizard King while i let the Revenge against the giants chill for a bit (you wouldn't believe the insanity that is that module lol). I was wondering what the best method for tackling this would be, what you've found to be the best methods.
JDG - Thanks! Looked at TotLK - Seems a pretty straightforward conversion. Maybe start the PCs at 6th. The dragon, Aulicus, should be a Young Adult which will be a hard kill for the PCs. The (16) wights could be a challenge but if the group has a cleric with Turn Undead, it could even things out a bit (they should be 7th at that point). The Hall of War should probably have less than four hill giants. The brides are vampire spawn. The great Lizard King himself, perhaps a lizardfolk vampire fighter3/sorceror6/eldritch knight3; Otherwise look at magus I suppose. I don't get the feeling of some sort of sorcerer/anti-paladin - seems more of a despot than unholy warrior. On a final note, I'd probably upgrade the treasure a bit and include some restoration or deathward type magic.
Fonts, symbols, etc.: When you open the files, check File-Properties-Fonts(tab). That will show the names of the fonts. I like Linotype and have gotten several from there, but you can search on them, and for the free ones, you'll find them. Symbols are generally "AltemusRoundsBold" - If I remember, I got those from Linotype (but I know it's at fonts.com too).
I have Tiae finished and Loviath mostly so. I'm actually stuck working on an alternate beginning/ending that involves Emirikol a bit more and in a darker way. Also the "Big A" is no-one's dupe so who knows how far forward he has seen around all of this.
Cheers,
~D
Hey no problem DS :), and thanks again for the advice on all those. Definitely thinking Probably Fighter Sorc with a possibility of eldritch knight though i would like to keep his CR within reasonable limits (though i guess a CR of 14 should not be to complicated) but yeah its pretty straight forward. As always though i am trying to fix an errors in the document and make things a little more sensible. Greatly appreciate the Links for fonts.
Hey Daemonslye, i was wondering if i could do some corresponding with you in regards to the different conversions and some ideas i might have?
So, what is Daemonslye's next big conversion project? Dead Gods?
Hey there. I went ahead and updated the set of encounters at Point Harrow with Emirikol.
THE FORTRESS OF EMIRIKOL THE CHAOTIC -> CLICK HERE
I changed the backstory somewhat which is matching better what I have planned for the PCs at the end of the adventure.
Enjoy
~D
Correspondence: my email is my avatar name at aol.
Next big conversion project: Not sure yet. I may stick to high level given that there are not many Pathfinder adventures for high level and the value-add is more than low level.
Some updates:
TIAE, COMPANION OF EMIRIKOL -> CLICK HERE
SUNLORD THALACHOS, HERALD OF NEHEOD (PLANAR ALLY) -> CLICK HERE
I felt like, in contemporary games, Tiae's id would lead her toward a bard vs. rogue. Assuming the cleric uses a planar ally, I decided to add the ally here, assuming they would need a formidable ally (and one that would jump in to help without excess requirements). The Sunlord is an excellent "fifth party member" should one be needed.
Enjoy
~D
Hello. I continue to work on the end of the adventure and, as I do, it has me revisiting the beginning. I've changed a few things around, including some names which I'll fix through the rest of the module as I work my way through, tightening things up. I have also included a table of contents so you can see where I'm going with the entire work.
One of the storylines that required some alteration was the one surrounding the fact that the Vallis Crystal contained an entire prime material plane to be used by the Archdevil Asmodeus to become a god. Interesting, eh?
Hopefully, this work will help others who labor to convert other modules from one rpg ruleset to Pathfinder Roleplaying Game rules.
Recently added -> A PALADIN IN HELL, Introduction
~D
Recently added -> DEMONWING, Boarding the Ship
Another section I was always less that happy about.
~D
I so cannot wait until this is all done...
Thank you so much for your work on this.
Recently added -> APPENDIX I, Vanar the Just
Thanks BenS, I'll keep plugging away until I get it done. Soon I'll start another thread with the whole TOC in one location which will get filled in as I go.
~D
Recently added -> APPENDIX I, Vanar the Just
Thanks BenS, I'll keep plugging away until I get it done. Soon I'll start another thread with the whole TOC in one location which will get filled in as I go.
~D
I too am anxiously awaiting this project's completion. I want you to know that I find your layout and style VERY impressive. Once you are done with it I plan to have it professionally printed and bound.
I am actually in the process of writing a prequel campaign that will have the PC's at 16th level just so I can run this. I wish I had your talent with layouts so that I could share my work. My intention is to find several other modules from previous editions and convert them as well, thus keeping an overall 'theme' - but have them placed within Golarion. This would also serve my players as their first introduction to Golarion proper. Another theme I intend to use is working said Paladin into the campaign early as a Patron for the PCs. Im not sure yet what modules I am going to dip into just yet. I would like to incorporate the Tomb of Horrors somehow though.
It looks like by the end of Paladin in Hell the PCs should be nearly 19th or 20th Level - don't you think? Maybe I could do it the Tomb as a High Level crown piece to the series.
Updated (Dec 26, 2010) -> Pregenerated Characters
Threw a summary in front a la "against the giants" for those familiar with it. Will probably round out the bunch with Lem. The thought is that you can pick any four. I may consider adding some lower level alternatives for a five or six person party.
I have a group of players that will help play test this tomorrow running pregens numbers 1-4. I'll post a recap later in the week.
~D
Well we did a play test - I am glad I started from the beginning again.
Some key learnings:
- The beginning worked fairly well, maybe need to throw in a little more role playing around the background to connect the players better. They found Emirikol without issue and proceeded to Demonwing. Emirikol needs to prepare the group for Demonwing better. They did not ask questions (he seemed to be somewhat intimidating) and went in without fully expecting the battle to come.
- The "warm up" encounter, at EL18 was too hard and consumed too much time. Combined with a few bad saves and it almost ended in a TPK. As it was, the paladin was killed and the dwarf was unconscious. They were reconstituted by the cleric who lived. Was trying to a.) get the players to connect to the characters and b.) give them a heads up this was going to be dangerous. Didn't hit #1 and #2 seemed to be a given. BTW - Love the daemons. They were surprisingly versatile (free actions rule).
- The first major encounter in Demonwing was too much for a group that did not get super prepared - e.g. they did not cast any 1m or 10 minute per level spells in the anticipation of a serious combat (no freedom of movement, no buffs, just water walk). Combined with a few bad saves and we came dangerously close to a TPK requiring round tables of discussion how various PCs could somehow take actions without dying. I even pulled the water elementals at the last moment but the Mother and two hezrou were too much given the environmental difficulties. As it was, the dwarf died and the body dragged off, the cleric had used planar ally which gave that player another chance (with a planetar no less).
- The Demon Giant encounter went similar to Paizocon, although I pulled the bodak encounter to see if that helped things a bit. Nope. The giant was able to get one full attack which basically means the end of one PC (using smite only adds to the problem). The PC in this case was the Planetar who stuck out a bit, what with the daylight spell radiating from his angelic body. The next round the paladin repaid the giant its full attack and it fell. The five bebiliths it summoned were more than annoyances and could have caused real problems had the giant survived any further.
- So what did we learn? I need to tone the whole thing down two notches. For experienced high level players, it needs to be toned down one notch. But I'll err of the side of caution and pull it down a couple. Better tactics by the players would have made a huge difference in these encounters, but its a big adventure and its better to have a few go easy with good tactics and good saves than the other way.
- Other observations: In both instances (paizocon and here), the Wizard, both run by excellent players, had a hard time standing out. The damage output from spells and the good saves by the opponents really put them in a position where they need to think of themselves more as support and battlefield control rather than blasters. Spell selections for the pregens will be re-looked at.
- Once plans for Paizocon are announced, ill see about setting up another playtest with more experienced players to see how I'm doing with hitting the right power level.
- One more item - With the proliferation of (colossal) fights, the module needs more frequent roleplaying to break things up a bit. I am planning to turn the Threakil encounter into a roleplaying one and put it in an easier place to find (the encounter could have always been run this way, but I'll make it more obvious).
In any case, thanks to my wonderful players for a great game, as hard as it was, they were still having fun. That said, they seem to be happy to be back scratching out survival on Smuggler's Shiv. ;^)
~D
by the end of Paladin in Hell the PCs should be nearly 19th or 20th Level
Yep, Katerek, right on the money. By going through the main encounters on Demonwing, they will hit 17th. By midway through Coldsteel, 18th. They don't hit 19th until well into the Temple so it's unlikely they would see 20th by the end but I will check my math when I get it finished. Even with the encounters de-buffed somewhat, it shouldn't affect XP too badly.
I am also going to make sure to inventory usable magic that will help them - especially in Coldsteel against the infernal royalty.
~D
I played through the entire adventure with my group a few months back. The final level wasn't complete so I winged it on that section. I can say that high level play is very difficult to balance. My group is from a long running game so they A) work well together and B) have a bit too high of wealth by level, particularly due to a few artifacts they've picked up along the way.
The thing I've noticed in general is that in order to really challenge a group, opponents have to be powerful. So routinely a member or two of the party drop to dead. Some of the bigger demons or devils can really dish it out if they focus on one PC. I often like it when they pick up an NPC or two along the way so I won't feel bad if I disintegrate an NPC during a fight.
So my best advice running high level adventures is be flexible. Maybe don't start with all the enemies in the fight. If a fight is going too quickly I bring in reinforcements from nearby. And sometimes let them have a few cakewalk encounters to keep things moving along. Since the group has access to a lot of potent abilities, they can usually handle a lot. But they don't always have access to abilities the adventures assume, so you have to be flexible.
I my group only ran away once, and that was against the first encounter with Geryon and his council of allies. They came back prepared (lots of acid resist) and forced him to retreat. Then in the final showdown in the temple they locked him down with dimensional anchors and it was a great fight.
Reminds me, when making pre-mades: do they have an emergency kit? Some way to resurrect people when the cleric is down, scrolls of greater-teleport and/or planeshift? At that level they should have some reserve way to get out of danger when nearly all of the party is down. Rogue with UMD has saved my group on more than one occasion.
Thanks for the advice Deinol. I'll make sure each of the pregens have what they need. The trick is that they shouldn't need to use their "out" in every fight.
I went ahead and updated the following files: The Beginning, Emirikol, and Demonwing. Because Demonwing got the most work, I'll include it here.
Recently updated (Dec 31, 2010) -> Demonwing, Boarding the Ship
~D
Thanks for the advice Deinol. I'll make sure each of the pregens have what they need. The trick is that they shouldn't need to use their "out" in every fight.
I went ahead and updated the following files: The Beginning, Emirikol, and Demonwing. Because Demonwing got the most work, I'll include it here.
Recently updated (Dec 31, 2010) -> Demonwing, Boarding the Ship ****
~D
Updated the file again. Use the link above. Kill your browser cache to see it if you already opened it once (or just right click and "save link as" on your desktop).
Happy New Year!
~D
Another update;
Recently updated (Jan 15, 2011) -> Demonwing Area 11. Arcane Workroom
I changed the xill to urdefhan (which felt more githyanki-like somehow) and pulled the encounter level for area 11 down to EL16. The saves against the sorcerer's magic are still quite high, so without mind blank, it could be touch and go (although pro from evil works wonders). Let me know if I borked anything up. Also, had some questions on upgrading the urdefhan (how their DCs go up, see my post in Serpent Skull/GM ref 1000 fangs).
Cheers
~D
Updated the file again. Kill your browser cache to see it if you already opened it once (or just right click and "save link as" on your desktop).
One thing that I noticed when I looked at this on my iPad and another computer, the file looks *WAY* better in Foxit. Try it out! It's super fast and you can still use Adobe to open everything else it you want.
Just tightened up the storyline a bit more and switched Threakil to help the party with Straoth. Area 16 is still being worked.
Download Foxit PDF Reader (Free) -> CLICK HERE
Recently updated (Jan 17, 2011) -> Chapter 2: Demonwing
Enjoy,
~D