Simple question really. Keep in mind that I haven't read any of the latest trilogy yet. I never read them until the last book comes out so please, no spoilers on those.
And if you don't hate Drizzt, that's fine and feel free to say so if you'd like.
Too self-absorbed. He was all about action in the first trilogy, but he's gotten progressively more mopey and introspective since then. "Does Catti-brie love me? What about Wulfgar? What will our children look like? What is the meaning of life? Oh, I'm so alone and misunderstood." Bleh. It's gotten to the point where his freaking diary entries show up in books he's not even in! He desperately needs a therapist. I feel like I ought to be paid a hundred bucks an hour to listen to him whine!
excessive cheese
Too self-absorbed. He was all about action in the first trilogy, but he's gotten progressively more mopey and introspective since then. "Does Catti-brie love me? What about Wulfgar? What will our children look like? What is the meaning of life? Oh, I'm so alone and misunderstood." Bleh. It's gotten to the point where his freaking diary entries show up in books he's not even in! He desperately needs a therapist. I feel like I ought to be paid a hundred bucks an hour to listen to him whine!
I bet these won't make it into the graphic novels. Maybe that will be one of the good things about not reading them when they came out, and playing catch-up later through the graphic novels.
I don't hate Drizzt, but I stopped reading about halfway through the second present-time trilogy. (I think they were calling it Legacy of the Drow. I've never read the one about him before he meets Wulfgar, et al that I understand are actually much better.)
I just plain lost interest. Salvatore has a few writings ticks that really drive me up the wall (goofy names and goofy bit characters are not the way to win me over as a reader) but I plain did not find Drizzt compelling at a psychological case at all. I was reading the books as cheesy action novels (This is helpful for most D&D novels. Not to be down on them -I've read quite a few- but they generally aren't trying to be much more.) and that was it. When they stopped being fun, that was the end.
I seem to recall thinking that Salvatore was bored with Drizzt too, which might have shown through in the writing. I have this all third- and fourth-hand, at the least, but I understand he wanted to stop writing about Drizzt entirely and TSR wouldn't have it because Drizzt makes good money. So TSR said ok, but we're going to commission another author for the next Drizzt book then since we own the character. I very dimly recall seeing an ad for a non-Salvatore Drizzt book (in Dragon?). That seems to have changed Salvatore's mind and he was back to writing Drizzt.
Drizzt inspired a generation of fanboys who in turn felt the need to try to turn every game they played in into one of his crappy novels.
Salvatore has a few writings ticks that really drive me up the wall
Oh, here's another thing that irks me about the books. All his Drizzt books (and it hasn't carried over to his Corona books, so it's at least partly bad copy editing at WotC) have the same two misuses of words: "grizzly" for "grisly" and "compliment" for "complement."
There's always a line about his companions "complimenting his fighting style," at which I always picture Bruenor, Catti-brie et al. sitting around watching Drizzt fight something and calling out, "Oh, Drizzt, you fight divinely! What a way to swing two scimitars! You rock!"
I'm pretty sure it is the double z's.
Drizzt, whatever you think of him, sold a lot of books. Salvatore knew his audience and gave them what they wanted. the NYT bestseller list is a good barometer of what Drizzt did for the people who read it, not to mention TSR.
Was it great literature? Well, not like Hemingway, or something. That's not the point. Readers were entertained by a fantasy that they bought and read over and over again. It's the nerd's version of Harlequin romances. They want the fantasy, and Mr. Salvatore gave them the alternate world they wanted to escape to, where a good person with good motives and some scimitars can prevail. It's not the real world we live in, at all.
Given Paizo's predeliction for pulp fiction, and their serious attempts to revive the classics of the genre, I'm sure Mr. Salvatore is already working on novels for them. I'm stupid enough to try to do the same, but I've yet to publish a work that long, or weather the chances of my work not being an auto-success. Unknown writers are a huge gamble for any publisher. It has to turn a profit, good or not.
Drizzt didn't suck at all. There's nothing to hate about him. You bought it or you didn't. He sold a lot of books, and we can't. There's a lesson there for all of us.
If you don't know your audience, you don't have one.
Fatigue, mostly. I don't dislike the character in particular, but the fan-cult that developed around him is tiresome. This is probably why I dislike Boba Fett and Wolverine, too.
The rabid fanboi's ruin it for everyone.
Some of the books are better than others. I like the books that tell of his beginning the best, and I like the fight scenes also. Even though I don't know what a double down sideways reverse jabbing sword twist is, it sounds like it would be a cool move. BTW I made that sword maneuver up, but he does give names to certain moves at time.
Drizzt inspired a generation of fanboys who in turn felt the need to try to turn every game they played in into one of his crappy novels.This.
Plus, swords named "Icingdeath" and "Twinkle."
I still cant believe he named a sword Twinkle.
Drizzt inspired a generation of fanboys who in turn felt the need to try to turn every game they played in into one of his crappy novels.
This is the actual problem.
When he first appeared, R. A. Salvatore's Drizzt Do'Urden was brilliant and inspiring. The stories are well rewitten and original, and Salvatore's take on life as a dark elf was intriguing.
However, Drizzt Do'Urden was so brilliant and inspiring that thousands of "fanboys," showing a shocking lack of originality and creativity, decided to copy the character.
No. Drizzt was never, ever, ever brilliant.
And the stories are poorly, not well, written.
Salvatore has a few writings ticks that really drive me up the wallOh, here's another thing that irks me about the books. All his Drizzt books (and it hasn't carried over to his Corona books, so it's at least partly bad copy editing at WotC) have the same two misuses of words: "grizzly" for "grisly" and "compliment" for "complement."
That's really awful. I think I either forgot or didn't get to the point where he was doing that. I had in mind more characters we are supposed to take seriously but are named things like (real example) Pasha Pook. I can understand a certain amount of real world borrowings and the like, and some people just plain aren't good at names, but that just screams an author going "ha-ha, ho-ho, I'm funny!".
But I'm the kind of guy who spent some time thinking about how to replace the term arabesque in Legacy of Fire flavor text. I might just be too picky.
No. Drizzt was never, ever, ever brilliant.
And the stories are poorly, not well, written.
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As with several other people, I don't hate Drizzt. I just got tired of the SSDD of each successive series of books. With the latest trilogy, I finally gave up the ghost.
I'm happy for Salvatore. He's had more success than most people on this thread will probably ever see, and that's great for him. Along the way he gave us some entertaining stories (especially the earlier ones) and interesting characters.
And, just as an aside, I admit....I was a fanboy for one campaign. It was a Spelljammer run in which I had a drow fighter who wielded two longswords. He ended up in prison on the Rock of Bral, but along the way he did kick some ass.
And, just as an aside, I admit....I was a fanboy for one campaign. It was a Spelljammer run in which I had a drow fighter who wielded two longswords. He ended up in prison on the Rock of Bral, but along the way he did kick some ass.
We. Will. Never. Forgive. You!
I found Salvatore's writing kind of juvenile, but then again, that was kind of the whole point. The books ain't Faulkner, it was meant to bring young readers into the D&D 'universe' and considering the series' perennial popularity it worked.
I did love his descriptions of Menzoberranzan. You really got a feel that that place was run on totally different principals than a 'human' city would be.
Drizzt I could take or leave. The fanbois will be fanbois, it's the same as the many 'Legolads' or 'Hilbos' I've seen played. Some folks like a template for their characters they can refer to.
That being said, I do agree that the character of Drizzt needs to be retired, and a new crop of iconic characters would be smart. Hopefully, in the future we shall see some well-written Golarian fiction and start a whole new fanbase.
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Personally, I don't like Drizzt for a combination of reasons pretty much covered already. First is my first-hand experience reading the novels. Yes, he did start out as an exciting heroic figure and then got fairly depressing, to put it bluntly.
I also have had more encounters with Drizzt clones than I care to count; all those poorly played copies kind of drag his name through the mud.
Lastly, I suppose the author's style was less appealing as I got older. Perhaps my tastes have changed; Drizzt novels just aren't my favorite use of leisure time.
When I first heard people rave about Drizzt, I was determined to hate those books. I started reading Homeland just so that I could say, with authority, that it stinks.
And for the first chapter or two, I DID say that; it seemed exactly what I had expected. A society of evil backstabbers? Why should I care about any of them? And Zaknafein seemed no better than the rest...
...until he delivered that impassioned speech. "Menzoberranzan, what hell are you?!"
Oh. My. Goodness. What a twist! What a fascinating character! Trapped in a society he knows is wrong! I felt for him! I had to re-read the first two chapters (or at least, the scenes with Zak in them.)
And although Zak was trapped, he passed his dreams onto his son, who had the courage to leave and venture off into a cruel world and uncertain future. What a story! I ate up the first six books.
Then the next 2 1/2 books after that bored me. The story seemed too stretched out. Really, The Legacy told a story that could have been told in one chapter: The drow try to get Drizzt, and fail. That's it. Was Salvatore running out of ideas? There was an occasional good scene, but not many.
And Siege of Darkness brought out the reason I had initially hated the drow in the first place, but with no Zaknafein to redeem it. Only the backstabbers were left. "Gee, all of Drow society could end because of this crisis!" Good! Kill 'em all! It's a wonder they didn't all kill each other already. So I gave up halfway through "Siege."
And by the way, most of my "Drizzt clone" PCs - that is, monsters who left their tribes because they wanted to be good - were goblinoids. I have created many such characters.
Fatigue, mostly. I don't dislike the character in particular, but the fan-cult that developed around him is tiresome. This is probably why I dislike Boba Fett and Wolverine, too.
I sometimes compare FR to Marvel comics, and Salvatore's works to X-Men. You can guess to whom Drizzt corresponds.
In short, the Drizzt series isn't bad, just too stretched out. The same goes for the Dragonlance series. I think a good series needs an ending. (Obviously, a marketing department would scoff at the notion.)
And I always had an idea of a good relationship for Drizzt, although it is corny. Suppose that some elf girl pursues Drizzt, and eventually reveals that she's the one whose life Drizzt had saved in Homeland?
I have not read the books, so it was the mindless clones for me. All I am asking is use a different race or fighting style. Is that too much to ask?
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And I always had an idea of a good relationship for Drizzt, although it is corny. Suppose that some elf girl pursues Drizzt, and eventually reveals that she's the one whose life Drizzt had saved in Homeland?
Serious spoiler for later books
And I always had an idea of a good relationship for Drizzt, although it is corny. Suppose that some elf girl pursues Drizzt, and eventually reveals that she's the one whose life Drizzt had saved in Homeland?
Umm...how do I say this...been there, done that?
Serious spoiler for later books
Oh, you mean Heathcliff, but as a Drow…and wielding two scimitars…and poorly written?
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I hate Drizzt because now anyone who plays a drow character of any sort is acused of being a fanboi. I played a half-drow greatsword weilding cleric in my last campaign and was accused of running a Drizzt clone. The character wasn't even from the Underdark, she was the bastard daughter of a drow women who had been captured and enslaved by a Pirate Lord of Luskin. That is why I hate Drittz.
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I hate Drizzt because now anyone who plays a drow character of any sort is acused of being a fanboi. I played a half-drow greatsword weilding cleric in my last campaign and was accused of running a Drizzt clone. The character wasn't even from the Underdark, she was the bastard daughter of a drow women who had been captured and enslaved by a Pirate Lord of Luskin. That is why I hate Drittz.
+1
And I always had an idea of a good relationship for Drizzt, although it is corny. Suppose that some elf girl pursues Drizzt, and eventually reveals that she's the one whose life Drizzt had saved in Homeland?
Serious spoiler for later books
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
Umm...how do I say this...been there, done that?
Dang. You serious? What book(s) was that in? That is, around what year (in real time)?
And am I to understand, from Lathiira's post, that there were hints about a possible future romance that wound up turning into the events Paul Watson described in his spoiler?
It's a good thing I stopped reading!
Nothing personal against Driz'zt; I just dislike everything Forgotten Realms.
What's wrong with Twinkle?
Association:
1. "Twinkle, twinkle little star..."2. Twinkle toes
3. Twinkie
It's the feel of the word that's the problem. I'd say Twinkle is one of those cases of the core idea being fine, but it needed to be pressed on until a name that sounded good emerged from that core idea. I'm sure Twinkle sounds bad ass in some language (Drow? Elven?), but it draws s-n-i-g-g-e-r-s in English.
Icingdeath is not as bad, but it suffers from the same kind of problem. It sounds like either the name of a dessert in a chain restaurant, or an obvious Monty Python sketch.
EDIT: Sorry, it annoys me that I can't type that word.
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I hate Drizzt because now anyone who plays a drow character of any sort is acused of being a fanboi. I played a half-drow greatsword weilding cleric in my last campaign and was accused of running a Drizzt clone. The character wasn't even from the Underdark, she was the bastard daughter of a drow women who had been captured and enslaved by a Pirate Lord of Luskin. That is why I hate Drittz.
I don't hate Drizzt. But I do hate being accused of making a 'clone'.
Twice I have been accused1)Elven Two Weapon Fighting with shortswords and Weapon Finesse
Seemed like a good start for a character too, and I am a fan of TWF.
2)A human Fighter3/Ranger4 who started TWF with the elf's shortswords(since the elf had died), and ended up using a Bastard Sword and a Dagger.
Now #2's accusation was actually the DM's fault. He took the character's backstory and twisted around, then said my character was a Clone because of the backstory and the TWF.
What's wrong with Twinkle?
Association:
1. "Twinkle, twinkle little star..."
2. Twinkle toes
3. Twinkie
I thought you would say it sounds like "tinkle."
Or was that one too obvious?
Thanks for number 4. I knew I was leaving at least one out.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Wasn't Icingdeath the dragon, originally?
(gods, now I sound like Peter Griffin. "It's the sled. Rosebud is the name of the sled! There now I've saved you from two boobless hours")
Ahem. Having read the original Crystal Shard*, and comparing it to later works, you can see changes in the writing. I know that he's said that Menzoberranzan is based on the Godfather (Source).
The other thing to remember is that what rocked our worlds 20 (ack!) years ago looks pretty droll today.
I think when it comes to how it functions, Megatron's quote sums it up. "Trechery requires NO mistakes."
*
Drizzt clones rank right up there with ninja wannabes.
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And I always had an idea of a good relationship for Drizzt, although it is corny. Suppose that some elf girl pursues Drizzt, and eventually reveals that she's the one whose life Drizzt had saved in Homeland?
Serious spoiler for later books
** spoiler omitted **
** spoiler omitted **
Umm...how do I say this...been there, done that?Dang. You serious? What book(s) was that in? That is, around what year (in real time)?
And am I to understand, from Lathiira's post, that there were hints about a possible future romance that wound up turning into the events Paul Watson described in his spoiler?
It's a good thing I stopped reading!
Pretty sure it was Sea of Swords, which was 2001. I don't recall any romance, though. I think Lathiira was simply saying that the girl he rescued had indeed shown up again, albeit not quite as happily as you thought of.
I like the novels though I think this last trilogy will be the last one I read (the Thousand Orcs almost finished it for me, that trilogy was pretty bad).
Really? I just finished reading that trilogy and actually liked it a lot.
Let me clarify slightly: in the 1000 Orcs/Two Blades/Lone Hunter trilogy, we see the elf girl our stalwart dark elf rescued once again. I will say no more than that. Sorry to have been so vague.
