Just curious, has there ever been any discussion or published discourse on why M:tG was never setup and used as a Campaign Setting for 3E/3.5 or as it's own RPG?
It just seems that 75% of an RPG or Campaign Setting was just sitting there, amongst the cards and art, waiting for assembly into something that would seem to be a pretty fantastic gateway product between M:tG and D&D.
At the very least, a monster book (or several), spell books, item books, that kind of thing, would have been rather simple to crank out.
My gaming group got together, and we were discussing what we wanted to do in an upcoming campaign, and a couple of the members still dabble in M:tG, and we got onto this topic. I used to play back around Unlimited/Revised, but slowed down and came to a stop around Fourth Edition. I can't help but believe that RPG products centered around the vast M:tG world/mythos would have got be back into playing the CCG.
Maybe it's good that they didn't? :P
Anyhow, like I said, I was curious, and I would have thought it would have been brought up in some official capacity, but I can't find anything meaningful when Googling.
Granted, I've only played the game and never read any of the fluff, it does seem though that such a game would cater to spellcasters more (since the main premese of the card game is that you're a pokemaster...I mean..summoner, who summons monsters to fight for you).
If you made such a convertion, I'd make it similer to the card games, I.E I'd make it that players choose classes and base races etc to customize their monsters rather than their mages, and have the mages with only a few options for customisation.
While the base mechanics of M:tG don't change, every world introduces new mechanics. Zendikar, due out in a few weeks, will include a mechanic that causes various things to happen when lands are played, for example. And there's a new set every 3 months or so. You'd get a lot of worlds to work from, I gotta admit.
True, but really I don't think thats what OP means. I think the idea of a specific set becoming a campaign setting is a great idea. Really, IMO, each Magic Set is full of potential for exploration. Favorites include a world like Ravnica or perhaps a setting that includes the story elements from Urza and all the stuff that went on in his timeline.
Then again, when I can afford it, Im absolutely addicted to MtG (I even read all the books...ewe (sometimes)...I know).
Granted, I've only played the game and never read any of the fluff, it does seem though that such a game would cater to spellcasters more (since the main premese of the card game is that you're a pokemaster...I mean..summoner, who summons monsters to fight for you).
If you made such a convertion, I'd make it similer to the card games, I.E I'd make it that players choose classes and base races etc to customize their monsters rather than their mages, and have the mages with only a few options for customisation.
Not necessarily. True, "Planeswalkers" are pretty much epic wizards...but theres a lot of stuff going on that don't involve Planeswalkers. As PCs we wouldn't be Planeswalkers, we would just be ...doing something(fighting wars, usurping evil rulers, solving mysteries etc)...in the world of magic.
True, but really I don't think thats what OP means. I think the idea of a specific set becoming a campaign setting is a great idea. Really, IMO, each Magic Set is full of potential for exploration. Favorites include a world like Ravnica or perhaps a setting that includes the story elements from Urza and all the stuff that went on in his timeline.
Then again, when I can afford it, Im absolutely addicted to MtG (I even read all the books...ewe (sometimes)...I know).
That'd be a LOT of Campaign Settings.
I would have been happy with one central M:tG Campaign Setting, and then a plethora of "worldbooks" or whatever.
Owner - Johnny Scott Comics and Games
|
I believe (don't have a source) this was an option discussed at length back when WOTC originally purchased the D&D license. I'm not sure how far it went, but for one reason or another, the M:TG Campaign Setting was shelved.
I've alway felt it would have been a great idea, both for marketing and for gaming, to have a M:TG D&D Campaign Setting. Unfortunately, it seems that not enough of the people that matter felt the same way.
|
It may be the 10-year plan come to fruition with 5e.
Wotci always said they don't do rpg well. This is a quote from none other than W Bauer back around 2000.
Some keen bloggers have recently intimated that the trend of 4e will lead to a 5e that is truly diceless.
So, given all of that, you MtG might have its day in the sun yet. And, just perhaps, is the piece de la resistance of the non-dnd direction they have been taking for the game.
Thank the gods for PAIZO!
3.5 Thrives! OGL forever!
|
|
To the OP: yes, I have considered it on occassion. Even took a shot at stating up some of the monsters at one time. Unfortuanatly that was almost ten years ago and I have seen lost all of the work I did. I also did most of it aimed at GURPS Fantasy. However, would love to see something along those lines. I doubt we will see anything official for 3.5 though, maybe 4E instead.
Director of Brand Strategy
|
I believe Vic or someone else who worked at WotC back in the day mentioned at some point that there was an official MtG RPG either in development or completed at some point, but that it never got released. I think you could stick with Dominaria and have a decent setting book, assuming you could make the game play less like a card game. If I want to summon stuff, I'll just play the CCG. That said, I could see a party of adventurers, maybe even mage heavy, taking on some slivers and such. If the CS took off, you could then add additional worlds like Mirrodin or Ravnica as supplemental setting sourcebooks.
Some keen bloggers have recently intimated that the trend of 4e will lead to a 5e that is truly diceless.
So, given all of that, you MtG might have its day in the sun yet. And, just perhaps, is the piece de la resistance of the non-dnd direction they have been taking for the game.
Not what I want, or what I had hoped for.
If I want to summon stuff, I'll just play the CCG. That said, I could see a party of adventurers, maybe even mage heavy, taking on some slivers and such. If the CS took off, you could then add additional worlds like Mirrodin or Ravnica as supplemental setting sourcebooks.
That's more along the lines of what I was thinking - by no means simply a bunch of summoners. I wouldn't want an RPG that played like the CCG, I was just hoping for some of the flavor behind the CCG.
I think the brains behind both games could come up with something for non-mage PCs, too. I mean, half of the M:tG game is monster-vs-monster brawling, so it couldn't be too hard to bring in some melee classes.
I wouldn't mind making it a mage heavy game. It is a game primalliry about summoners, so the feel just wouldn't be the same. That said, if players are eager to play Melee machines, they could easily control some monsters.
Maybe have something similer to outsiders in D'n'D, some are summoned and some are called, in which case melee characters would simply be called monsters.
I would think the PCs would be minions of the mages battling to maintain control over their Lord's lands.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This was talked about several times even in the few years I was at WotC. Eventually each one got shot down. I probably can't talk about why.
But I did play a Prodigal Sorcerer in one of the playtests, which gave me the opportunity to create the quote, "At any time, I can tap myself to deal 1d4+1 points of damage." :)
This was talked about several times even in the few years I was at WotC. Eventually each one got shot down. I probably can't talk about why.
But I did play a Prodigal Sorcerer in one of the playtests, which gave me the opportunity to create the quote, "At any time, I can tap myself to deal 1d4+1 points of damage." :)
Hey, I remember rifling off an e-mail to WotC back in the day about just that concept (MtG as a campaign setting) not long before the revelation of 3e ...
Some days I feel really really old ...
This is briefly commented about in one of the columns recently. Essentially the new set is using 'World of Adventure' as a theme and is therefore chalk full of adventurers seeking out ancient knowledge and treasure.
One of the rules in development of this concept was apparently that the developers where not to stray into D&D territory as it would be very easy to fall into doing that in a set focused on adventurers and the places they adventure in.
However there was no explanation in the column as to why it was felt this was important.
My gaming group got together, and we were discussing what we wanted to do in an upcoming campaign, and a couple of the members still dabble in M:tG, and we got onto this topic.
I JUST brought this topic up to my gaming group. We're much the same way MTG and D&D are our games of choice and I was intrested in a marriage of the two. This could be a happy union of happiness that shall bear fruit for years to come, or an unholy union that shall end in the misery and heartache of all involved. These are the ideas so far, and I'd love your input.
Now this is assuming the players will be planeswalkers with some degree of power. We're thinking that every player may choose up to three of the five colors that apply to themselves. Power could be givin based on what terrain they're currently in (drawing mana). They'd have PlaneShift 1/day as a spell like ability.Fighter/druid could be red/green or white/green C/N
Sorcerer/Rogue blue/black N/E
Cleric/sorcerer white/blue L/G ect ect
And they wouldn't even have to have a spellcaster class they could be a barbarian/rogue, they already have planeshift. What if they used all that starting gold to buy spell like abilities and scrap most of the DMG magic items. Oh snap what if you used magic cards to represent your allotment of spells! Guys stop me now, shoot down these crazy ideas, cause they just keep popping into my head. This is starting to sound like a game of Magic with roleplaying, and less like D&D with MTG themes. Which would you rather play? Can we find a balance?
This is briefly commented about in one of the columns recently. Essentially the new set is using 'World of Adventure' as a theme and is therefore chalk full of adventurers seeking out ancient knowledge and treasure.
One of the rules in development of this concept was apparently that the developers where not to stray into D&D territory as it would be very easy to fall into doing that in a set focused on adventurers and the places they adventure in.
However there was no explanation in the column as to why it was felt this was important.
Column? What is this column you speak of?
I can understand the mentality behind wanting to keep the brands distinct and not merge them into Das Überbrand.
To that note, I seem to remember reading of fears that D&D would become Magic: The RPG, so I can understand a desire to allay fears on that point.
At the same time, I also believe that the brains behind both properties were smart enough to pull off a gateway product that wouldn't inextricably muddle the two lines, and in my no-experience-in-the-industry-daydreaming, I would have thought a campaign setting the perfect way to do that - D&D core is still there, it's an optional bit, and provides the opportunity for both sides to experience the other.
Heck, at the very least, I would have thought monster books, spell books or item books would have been an easy way to make a quick buck.
They made this, after all:
http://www.amazon.com/Monsters-Magic-Gathering-Anthology/dp/0786929839
Add stats, bake on 350 for fifteen minutes, serve!
Back when I still lost money to MtG, this was a hot topic for a while, both online and IRL with my gaming group. I even did some work dividing the existing D&D spells and monsters into different colors.
There was this book, which tried to do something every similar without the license. It comes across as kinda "Birthright", but (personally) it's not very good.
I think the biggest hurdle to making this work is the mechanics. It has to look like the card game in flavor, but play like both D&D and MtG. Not an easy task. Plus, much like the discussions of "what is the soul of D&D", there are a lot of opinions as to what the "soul" of MtG is.
Final note, the old PC and Playstation videogames would be a good resource for anyone attempting this as a project.
Peace,
tfad
Nah. It doesn't need to play like MtG at all. In fact, that would be a major hurdle, at least for me. I don't want to be sitting there with my hand of spells, summoning wurms and tapping opponent critters. If nothing else, it'd be like a multiplayer session of MtG with seven people, only without the focus of the game. No thank you.
Neither would it be much fun to play with only D&D rules, having spells divided into colours and no new mechanisms or material. What would be the point?
What would be interesting, however, is a game where the magic system adapts the land and mana concepts into stuff useful in a RPG. It would require new magic-using classes, of course. This could then be used as the basis for what would probably be an amazing RPG setting.
But as it is, fat chance, right?
Nah. It doesn't need to play like MtG at all.
You have to wonder, then, what would be the point? ;p
Seriously, though, the RPG experience would have to evoke the feeling of playing MtG otherwise it wouldn't be MtG: The RPG. What that feeling is, that "soul" of the game will change on who you ask.
To me, that soul means: Dominaria and Summoning Creatures. It wouldn't be MtG:The RPG, to me, if I was the creature being summoned, or if it took place on Ravnica, for example. Artifacts are easily handled by the existing D&D magic items and the way they work, but other things, such as mana and "tap your land" are things I can see, and would be happy with, being handled in different ways.
Unless you are trying to blur the boundaries, though, I guess all versions of the RPG would want to avoid the use of actual MtG cards.
Of course, YMMV.
Peace,
tfad
The MtG concept is so common that people don't really think about it today. Fact is: You're a planeswalker, which would roughly translate as a demigod or similar power rank, and what you do deals with massive things on a massive scale.
This doesn't work in any RPG I know of, excepting possibly Amber.
So, why not use the MtG game as the backdrop of the story, giving the players various other roles, such as warriors, lesser mages, druids, healers, and the like?
I agree with you on the cards. That would not be fun.
Well, you know: While Urza did become a planeswalker, and while a good number of the planeswalkers were involved in the apocalypse plotlines, most of the novels and stories do not use planeswalkers as protagonists or even central characters. The relevant stories of the setting do not require planeswalkers to be any more present than deities usually are in RPGs. Jedis are nowhere near their power level, and are consequently part of the Star Wars RPG setting.
I said no planeswalkers, not no magic. I think mana and land, summoning creatures, and to a lesser degree artifacts, are the key concepts. The same magic that planeswalkers use is what mortal mages deal with, only the scale is different.
The big win would be a detailed and interesting setting.
I am also not saying playing planeswalkers would be impossible, it's just the epic level deal for Magic the RPG.
I haven't made a campaign setting, but I have liberally ripped a few names and quotes:
From the "Craw Giant: 4 green, 3 colorless; trample, rampage: 2"
I had a cloud giant barbarian: "Harthag gave a jolly laugh as he surveyed the army before him. "Ho ho ho! Midgets! You think you can stand in my way?" That boast insured the PCs failure to run.
I had an inevitable named Eron the Relentless: "Eron would be much less of a hassle if he were only mortal." A player uttered almost the same quote after having to deal with him the fourth time (and she didn't play M:tG).
Wanting to establish their own identities on Chris West's World of Mystery map, I've swapped many iconic D&D names for M:tG because my players don't play the card game. This way, these beings create their own mystique and don't have to rely on meta-gaming previous encounters in other games with different characters (but I still get to use their stat blocks).
War Duke = Maraxus of Keld (and no, no one knows where Keld is, they've never heard of it)
Vaevictis, Prince of Demons = Demogorgon (for STAP)
Crosis = Kyuss (for AoW)
Darigaaz = Vecna
Dromar = Orcus
Bladwing, the Risen = Dragotha
Hivis = Iggwilv
Vorosh = Asmodeus
Kilnmouth = Obox-Ob
So, why not use the MtG game as the backdrop of the story, giving the players various other roles, such as warriors, lesser mages, druids, healers, and the like?
Ding!
Exactly what I was thinking of - I in no way want any kind of M:tG mechanics, I just wanted the awesome backdrop in some nice, well-written tomes.
ill jump in and say that i too had the glorious idea that mtg should be combined with dnd back in the day. i think that using the backdrops of the worlds as campaign settings wouldve been a great idea. having PC's as planeswalkers...not so much. that wouldve been an epic level campaign. it would be real easy to pull the core classes from 3.5 or 3.75 and drop them into the setting, and having them adventuring to become planeswalkers.
i personally would set it up in ice age, cuz i love that setting. course that is the first edition of magic that i got into...well technically it was homelands, but otherwise it fell into the ice age block.
hmmmm....you know, this could have serious potential....
I'd say the Fallen Empires setting would be the perfect starting point. It might not have been too smashing a MtG set, but it would be lovely as a campaign setting. The main alternative is, yes, the Ice Age.
For years I've always wanted to do a Fallen Empires RPG game. I stopped playing Magic back just before Stronghold, like in the Mirage time frame I think it was. I started around Revised, and while the FE card set wasn't the best, the theme of it was what hooked me.
So I'm currently on a Play By Post Site http://brennor.dyndns.org/rpg and am thinking of another setting to run, this time using Pathfinder RPG (without the Pathfinder Setting).
I can't help but think how fun FE could be. Anyone out there have any sources for history/timelime, etc for Fallen Empires?
I'll admit I can see the Planes as cool new worlds for advendurer groups... But if there was a MtG Roleplaying game and I couldn't play a Planeswalker I would be... I can't think of a suitable expression that doesn't have at least three expletives on it. I have an idea for planeswalker classes: they would work somewhat like Summoners, with different spell lists depending on the color and a modified eidolon system to make summons. The main problems I run into are that the "mana from lands" thing would have to be mostly flavor cause I don't know how to make that into a mechanic that doesn't use cards; and that planeswalkers wouldn't be any more powerfull than regular mages. Ok, maybe a litle more powerfull than regular mages but not by much.
