A DM will never have a shortage of players. Hunt around for other players or groups, join them, taper off your interaction with the other group - finish the campaign, say "I'd like someone else to run the next game," ta da.
You're not dealing with "need to be challenged to roleplay" folks, you're dealing with people fundamentally uninterested in gaming - they are meeting just out of habit or out of camaraderie or to get away from the family/wife. A really good immersive RP experience is an awesome thing and if you want that, you will have to get it somewhere else.
Now, I did make this work once - we had a pretty big group and some people were interested in real RP and some weren't. I split the group, and said "Wed night we play casual, Saturday we play serious in-character." Of course a couple of the casual players joined the Saturday game because they really didn't understand despite my explanations, and I shook them out using the "real world consequences" approach. Once one guy got his character sent to the mines and told to roll up another after casually assaulting travellers, he and the other realized they should be in the casual game instead. The "deep" group went on to have a great, long campaign and the casual group - heck, they're still meeting now, like eight years since I moved away. It was a win-win.
A bit of a threadjack, but that is quite a bold statement based on my experience.
I'd go so far as to say "outright incorrect," but the rest of Herr Mueller's points were spot-on.
I would agree, however, I think the point he was trying to make is that players are a dime a dozen compared to GMs. Everyone wants to be a player. Not everyone wants to be a GM.
I think if you want to inspire roleplaying, then running an adventure path is probably not a good way to start. For experienced roleplayers and DMs it can be fine, but for new roleplayers and for DMs who haven't developed a lot of flexibility skills (able to jump off the adventure path at a moment's notice) adventure paths are usually more harm than good.
What you want to do is create a game around the characters, not a game where the characters are dropped in. Think of it this way, if the game is designed around the characters and the characters have no depth, then there is no game. Thus players have to develop some depth for their characters to even have a game to begin with.
As for no names, I would start off by having NPCs address them by their race/class. "Master Dwarf", "My good mage", "Brother", "My elven friend", etc., after a little while have someone ask their character what their name is. Do not expect the players to start speaking in first person right off. Ask them things like, "How does your character respond to him?"
What to do with non-roleplaying players?
Beat them mercilessly. I hear good things about bamboo canes.
Morieth-welcome to the boards. If you haven't received some, Lilith will come by soon and offer you cookies.
Hehe, thanks. I'm looking foward to it.
Just a quick post, mainly to say how much I appreciate all of your support and ideas. Thank you all very much for making me feel welcome on this board.
Regarding the main problem: I talked some of my players in private, and maybe some of them actually listened. I'm going ot implement some of the good ideas you came up with, and some of mine as well.
Gaming session is less than an hour away. Wish me luck, I'm going to update soon with the results.
Thank you all very much for making me feel welcome on this board.
Hey, a new leg is always welcomed.
Pant, pant, pant.
I always find the idea of "roleplaying awards" a bit strange. To me, players shouldn't have to feel like they have to choose between roleplaying or combat. If you get alot more xp for doing combat than you would for roleplaying for the same stretch of time, I feel that creates a situation where roleplaying alot is actually counter-productive (more time roleplaying = less time doing combat = less xp).
So I give xp more on the time gamed then on the situations over come. That way the players don't have to choose to roleplay and lose xp or do combat and get more xp, they get the same amount either way. Now if a lot of table time is wasted with jokes and goofing off, that is just time and xp they lose from the game.
You're not dealing with "need to be challenged to roleplay" folks, you're dealing with people fundamentally uninterested in gaming - they are meeting just out of habit or out of camaraderie or to get away from the family/wife. A really good immersive RP experience is an awesome thing and if you want that, you will have to get it somewhere else.
QFT.
Casual gamers can only be converted in an environment of roleplay-majority. If there is no majority of players to set the example and establish it as the accepted consensus in your table, they -won't- change.
I told him to not let them gang up on him! You gotta get the drop on players...
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Alas, poor Morieth.... we remember you well. Mayhaps you were beseiged by the party of rp noobs, and have fallen in mortal combat against their fury of mechanical gaming.
'Tis a far, far better thing I do than I have ever done.... a far better resting place Morieth goes to...'
Morieth? Are you there? Perhaps you need a +1 Lilith Cookie of GM Restoration ?
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Maybe they got so into RP that they are still at it now, describing how their characters are mending armour, giving coins to orphans, or telling tales of high adventure to Lord Fancypants.
Or not...
Woah! Way to stay positive! ...we can only hope!
And you point out an opposite pain-point for GMs, but one that I would gladly accept.... the scenarios of players doing what I once coined to be, "roleplaying breakfast." Oh, those were the days!
Now its all pew pew pew if anything these days.
What shall we do with non-roleplayers?
What shall we do with non-roleplayers?
What shall we do with non-roleplayers,
Early in the campaign?
Does the fact that he never posted back after game night bode ill?
Haha, good one.
It's been a terrible, terrible month, and boy do I appreciate your humor. :) But here I am, back on topic and right on the DM seat. Once again, let me thank you all for not making me feel a useless noob on these boards.
On to more interesting matters: the last two session went pretty well; I basically asked some players to put some more effort into their character and, to those who simply are not interested in RP, to at least avoid any "stupid" thing. We are still in the first module of Savage Tide, but "stupid" behavior already threatened to derail the whole campaign.
One when the party thief tried to steal Larissa Vanderboren's diary, the one found in the vault. He fumbled his Sleigh of Hand check, so Lavinia noticed him. The player whined A LOT (arguing that his stealing of the diary was "in character"), so I just lost my patience and made Lavinia "act in character too", kicking him out of the party without a second thought. Lavinia's halfling servant (forgot the name) put a good word for the "young rascal", and she agreeded to hire him again only if he presented his official apologies. He never did (and the player still argues how that was uncalled for). The character basically tagged along the rest of the party, playing normally, until his early demise under Parrot Island.
The party paid dearily its player's deep knowledge of D&D when they took Vanthus' brag about "Penkus' ghost" a little to literal, basically refusing to leave the dungeon (even as they began starving) until said ghost was found. They went into sleep deprivation as they refused to sleep, due to their mounting paranoia about a ghost blitz. When they found his body, they burned him without even a quick search of the body, so they noever noticed his note containing both the Lotus Dragon connection to Vanthus and the location of their guildhall.
I'm still trying to come up with something about that. Maybe Penkus' ghost will really pay them a visit...
Anyway, back on topic.
My players are now roleplaying - a little. I opted to give in to their merry, humorous nature out of game, but still manage to keep the in game world alive with coherent consequences and by not pulling punches with monster. We implemented Unearthed Arcana's Flaw System, so that they could be happy powergamers with 2 extra feats AND joke on each other about how fat they are or that their charater is blind as a mole. That seems a good thing to me. As they (players and character alike) are a prideful lot, I try to channel their anger at the (inevitable) stupid consequences off their actions into constructive roleplay; the party paladin, a new addiction to the group, plays a paladin of Tyr working as a steward in Terakinian's castle vault...
Characters who don't have a name automatically have the "Unimportant" flaw (found in some Dragon magazine) which means they do not get any party-based reward, end up last in the initiative order, always spring traps, get a preferential treatment by monsters and end up having no recognition whatsoever. Oh, and a bonus feat.
Gotta run now. I'll try to be more regular on my posts (though I'd like this thread to be less specific and of use to any DM out there with my same problem).
It sounds like you have a lot of work to do. I didn't read the whole thread but here are my suggestions. If you know the group well, just ask them if they could stay in character during game, and engage them as though your NPCs are really talking to them. Our group manages to stay about 80/20 in character/ooc these days, but this grew from our DM simply asking us to stay in character(and place our hands on our heads for OOC). It has become very rewarding and kept chatter to a minimum, especially when NPCs become extremely confused when you're talking about the movie you saw last week. Also, having NPC's react sorely to being called names will nip those habits in the bud. If in game solutions don't work have a simple chat with them. Eventually they will either grow as a group, or you will find they aren't a good fit. If they aren't your type of players, find a new group! If they're your friends...well...good luck, hopefully the are good enough friends where they will understand where you are coming from.
I fully appreciate your dilema. I came from a really good role playing group to one where if the fight isnt happening the monk player leaves the table and goes to read source books until the boreing stuff is over,that's a direct quote btw.
The way we got around it is simple. As a DM focus on the one or two players that want to role play. The others are going to be bored to tears hearing about the half orcs night with a lovely human woman,the dinner at the best restaurant in sharn,the theater,and finally the air carrage ride back to his house enclaive. Then the NPC interaction can be nasty if the only PC that ever interacts with the NPC's decides not to share said information and save the gold for himself.
It comes down to the earlier posts, reward the roleplayers but dont punish/slam the roll players.
The way we got around it is simple. As a DM focus on the one or two players that want to role play. The others are going to be bored to tears hearing about the half orcs night with a lovely human woman,the dinner at the best restaurant in sharn,the theater,and finally the air carrage ride back to his house enclaive. Then the NPC interaction can be nasty if the only PC that ever interacts with the NPC's decides not to share said information and save the gold for himself.
It comes down to the earlier posts, reward the roleplayers but dont punish/slam the roll players.
Boring those uninterested in roleplaying to tears isn't punishment to you?
Not that it makes it right, but I have been punished for years with nothing but hack-n-slash.
It comes down to the earlier posts, reward the roleplayers but dont punish/slam the roll players.Boring those uninterested in roleplaying to tears isn't punishment to you?
Well, it's not "punishment" since there is no intention behind. It's just a natural consequence of the group's formation.
It may sound strange coming from me, but in the end the game is supposed to be fun for its players (DM are supposed to get a little share of fun, too). Be it based on intense RP or pure munchkinism, if -one- player is feeling extremely bored by the session, then the group as a whole is clearly not meant for him. In that case, it's best to talk freely and have a little chat about what is expected out of the gaming sessions.But if needs and wants are irreconcilable, the someone just has to make a sacrifice -expecially in a large group such as the one I'm managing (7 players), it's frankly impossible to make the game appealing 100% to everyone.
Now, I wouldn't want to start some kind of debate with this, but it's my impression that most of the times that someone sits at the gaming table, he ends up expecting fun like it's some kind of "good" that he's paying for. Technically speaking, it's more like an "investment".
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I'm usually not ready to just dive into roleplaying a brand new character. Sometimes the character evolves over time. New territory sometimes discourages opening up for roleplay.
I'd say roleplay the major NPCs as much as you can. I'd guess at least one of your players will start responding in character and others may follow suit.
EDIT: Ah, I see they have been. Hopefully they try less to disable undead with groin attacks.
Hopefully they try less to disable undead with groin attacks.
Just to add, that was the player's conception of sneak attack: "striking a vital spot for extra damage".
Undead have nards?
Undead have nards?
Of course they do, if they were male in life, that is. The things just don't work anymore.... so really destroying them is a favor.
Undead have nards?
Undead have nards?Wolfman has nards!
Bonus points for pres man.