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EDIT: By the title,I mean that said products are 3.5, not Pathfinder. The content of these products, I find excellent otherwise, writing,art and overall design.
So, basically, I have no interest in buying 'Pre-Pathfinder' products anymore, when I am only going to end up having to buy them again, when official PF versions come out.
I mean, seriously. Everyone that I know (Including the guys at the only FLGS in San Francisco) have stopped buying the PF print products, since , as one guy at the store put it 'They are just going to end up re-releasing them in official PF versions next year/following anyways. As someone who JUST bought all of the CotCT adventures in print, this sort of peeves me. Will there be any sort of discount for folks who shelled out the cash for the 3.5 versions? A free PDF conversion to PF. Yes, it is easy enough for me, but a lot of folks don't have the time to convert everything, as their gaming is a restricted thing (Kids, careers,whatever...).
Likewise, I haven't been able to get any of the 12+ regulars who game at the store for join the PF Society, because they don't want to play 3.5 any more...(Yes, we all knw that it will change in August, but still...).
Don't get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE Pathfinder. I had already decided to just be done with 3.5, then PF drew me back into the D20system, and here I am. It's just a strange spot to be in, buying products that are 90% set up for the game that you will be playing in August and beyond.
Creative Director
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Well, the good news is you'll only have to wait a few more months before everything we print switches over to the new game... I just hope that you like the final PF RPG as much as you seem to like the Beta rules! :)
In any event, the current products are going to remain compatible with the new rules.
And no, we don't intend to re-release all of our current products next year for PF RPG at all. Since they're still compatible with the new game, we don't need to do that, which is one of the many reasons we're making the PF RPG so compatible with 3.5. Saves us a lot of money by not having to reprint all of the stuff we've already done, after all.
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Well, the good news is you'll only have to wait a few more months before everything we print switches over to the new game... I just hope that you like the final PF RPG as much as you seem to like the Beta rules! :)
In any event, the current products are going to remain compatible with the new rules.
And no, we don't intend to re-release all of our current products next year for PF RPG at all. Since they're still compatible with the new game, we don't need to do that, which is one of the many reasons we're making the PF RPG so compatible with 3.5. Saves us a lot of money by not having to reprint all of the stuff we've already done, after all.
I do love PF. I suppose I should just punch one of my friends for filling my head with nonsense (The bit about reprints...).
James, I know you folks have dealt with a lot of people's complaints about rules, compatibility, etc... I for one am a 'Look Forward' sort of guy, and I eagerly await the full version of the game. Thanks for clearing my misconceptions up. Did I mention slapping my buddy? Ok, good...
Uriel
What James said.
I've been using Pathfinder RPG rules since the alpha, and have been running Adventure Paths with it, and I didn't have any problems (and the final rules will be a bit closer to 3.5 than the beta!).
Since you mentioned Curse of the Crimson Throne, I ran that one completely with beta rules (Rise of the Runelords started as 3.5, then 3.5 with alpha rules, and finally a mix of 3.5, beta, and my houserules, since we played through that game during the time when PFRPG was in its early stages). I didn't have any problems. I did redo the occasional character (mainly end bosses), but I did that as much to build nice bbegs than I did it out of necessity - probably more so.
Beyond the adventures, there is little need for any conversion - Chroncles books are mostly free of rules content, after all, and companions stuff should not be hard to translate, either.
After all, the game is supposed to work with 3e stuff.
To be honest, I find that PrCs have lost much of their appeal, with the base classes being so fantastically good.
I´d love to take the Harrower PrC from the Campaign Guide for its flavor, but I´d be nuts to do so... the base Sorcerer is so much better, ability-wise.
So, some updating of PrCs, so that they are at least on the level of the core classes would be in order, IMO. :)
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To be honest, I find that PrCs have lost much of their appeal, with the base classes being so fantastically good.
I´d love to take the Harrower PrC from the Campaign Guide for its flavor, but I´d be nuts to do so... the base Sorcerer is so much better, ability-wise.
So, some updating of PrCs, so that they are at least on the level of the core classes would be in order, IMO. :)
Heh, you know that sounds a lot like an ugly arms race to me. You do know that the base classes were improved specifically to be on par with 3.5 PrC's? (Especially later ones)
I've been using Pathfinder RPG rules since the alpha, and have been running Adventure Paths with it, and I didn't have any problems (and the final rules will be a bit closer to 3.5 than the beta!).
Quick question: how much tweaking did 1st level modules require? I've been concerned that the effort to make that level survivable will ramp up my early play DMing work.
Most of the books I've been getting (outside the APs) have been primarily fluff-over-crunch. What crunch there is in say "Gods and Magic" or the campaign setting doesn't seem to be incompatible with the Pathfinder RPG — especially if they are reverting to 3.5 domains somewhat. That was the least compatible rule in the beta, and if it's gone I doubt I'll need to do any conversion at all for my newest Pathfinder (3.5) books.
It sounds to me like the folks you're hanging around with are too accustomed to being edition-gouged by game companies. I can relate.
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Quick question: how much tweaking did 1st level modules require? I've been concerned that the effort to make that level survivable will ramp up my early play DMing work.
DMing CotCT, I found I needed change hit points to what the PCs were using (on PC raced bad guys only) and calculate CMBs. That's it. While I haven't brought anyone into the negatives yet, I gave them double max + con mod to start with (a little overkill in hindsight) and with any of the normal amounts of HP they would have hit negitives at least 3-4 times
Quick question: how much tweaking did 1st level modules require? I've been concerned that the effort to make that level survivable will ramp up my early play DMing work.
Well, by default, Pathfinder RPG doesn't change much there: Beyond the bigger HDs some classes get (which usually translate into +2 HP), there isn't much to change.
I do use my own system for hit points: First, I use average (rounded up to the next higher whole number, so d10 becomes 6) instead of rolled.
Second, First-level characters don't get their full HD. Instead, they get average plus one virtual d8 (= humanoid) HD, which translates to extra HP equal to 5+con (though I might change that to a flat +5 at level one). One of the main reasons for doing this was that I wanted HPs to be the same for characters with the same levels and con, regardless of which class was chosen first.
But since that isn't any of the options PFRPG offers, I cannot tell you too much about how the standard rules change it. But I don't think it will make your work any harder. It's a minimum of extra effort, but then again, you can handle that without the kid gloves on.
You do know that the base classes were improved specifically to be on par with 3.5 PrC's? (Especially later ones)
Actually, the base classes are supposed to be on par with each other, and other base classes beyond the core rulebooks.
I think that most of the classes are going to be toned down again. I want to say that the Barbarian will be going back almost exactly like the 3.5 version, Sorcerers will losesome Bloodline abilities, and Clerics are going back to Domains, though the Domains will not be the 3.5 versions.
gods I hope not. I am ok with domains and the generalist wizard is over the top he needs toned down but , by all that's holy not the Barbarian or bloodlines
sorry edited above while ya responded
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The implication I got was that for the Bloodlines, they want to take some things away and make the Prestige Class abilities, because people complained that the base Sorcerer was may better that any Sorcerer PC's.
For the Barbarian, as I understand it, just wasn't well liked, or often ignored because it was complicated. I don't know, never tried either classes myself.
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I just heard (from a bunch of interviews and whatnot) that they want to take a little away from the Bloodlines and go more with a 20th capstone. As for Barbarians, it was in that linked interview.
The interview at least to me suggested they were going with the barbarian rules Jason proposed on this site.
I also got the feeling from the interview and from tid bits Erik said of his PC that the barb would be the updated rage system, with the points as rounds of rage.
I also got the feeling from the interview and from tid bits Erik said of his PC that the barb would be the updated rage system, with the points as rounds of rage.
I think that's what Beckett is thinking of - they said explicitly "Rage Points are gone!", but they (to all other sources) didn't mean that Rage *Powers* were gone - just the point-based usage of them, as per the new rules Here.
Quick question: how much tweaking did 1st level modules require? I've been concerned that the effort to make that level survivable will ramp up my early play DMing work.
I don't think *any* effort is needed, generally, to make things survivable. PFRPG 1st level characters are very close to 3.5, and if anything stronger/more survivable.
I don't think so 3.5 you get x/day rage and that's it. this is a rage point system, but you don't pay rage points for the powers is all
Quick question: how much tweaking did 1st level modules require? I've been concerned that the effort to make that level survivable will ramp up my early play DMing work.
Well I did not use any of the extra hp options, I changed CMB on the fly and gave clerics channel. Other then that I ran em as is. I did change some loot about to fit my group but ya know other then that nada
At first, when I saw the thread title, I thought, "Those words...can they go together in the same sentence like that!?" Heh, heh.
I think that most of the classes are going to be toned down again.
Actually, I doubt that there will be that much change in the classes.
There might be tweaks here and there, but they won't actually lose that much.
I want to say that the Barbarian will be going back almost exactly like the 3.5 version
Rage powers are too good an idea to discard, especially since they offer a lot of ways to customise your character.
, Sorcerers will losesome Bloodline abilities, and Clerics are going back to Domains, though the Domains will not be the 3.5 versions.
I do think that domains, bloodlines and schools will be revised again, but I also think they will still be there.
Heh, you know that sounds a lot like an ugly arms race to me. You do know that the base classes were improved specifically to be on par with 3.5 PrC's? (Especially later ones)
I am talking specifically about the Harrower, if you haven´t noticed. It has fantastic flavor, IMO, but it´s abilities are sub-par to what the base Sorcerer gets by now.
Before the Beta, you could eat the one level of non-spellcasting progression, because the extra abilities made up for it. By now, the Bloodline powers and feats you´d lose, when taking the Harrower, are far superior to the abilities the Harrower gets.
Base classes and PrCs should be on-par to each other, in regards to their power level.
Base classes and PrCs should be on-par to each other, in regards to their power level.
why they never have been before
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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why they never have been before
Base classes and PrCs should be on-par to each other, in regards to their power level.
All the more reason to fix it.
In 3.x there was almost no reason (prerequesites are the only one I can think of) not to take something like Ruathar, Archmage, other prestige class with full caster levels if you were a wizard or druid, and no reason if you were a cleric/sorcerer.
To me a prestige class should be one that a) over specializes in one thing and gets benefits from it and b) is penalized everywhere else.
I agree , it should never been hands down the better option . To many 3.5 PRC sole goal for being was to be more over the top the the last. PRC should be good but not out right better then anything else
Spcialization is good. The class really should be better than the base class in that specialised field, then. There needs to be a real incentive to go away from the PrC.
Actually, I think there should be a feat line for PrCs.
It would be nice to have the Prestige Classes become redundant BECAUSE the base classes are so flexible. It seems with taking multiple classes the old idea that this class is a straight spell thrower this one is a tank is hopefully becoming a thing of the past. If you want background to make the character into a more interesting game piece you shouldn't need a Prestige Class to do it.
It would be nice to have the Prestige Classes become redundant BECAUSE the base classes are so flexible. It seems with taking multiple classes the old idea that this class is a straight spell thrower this one is a tank is hopefully becoming a thing of the past. If you want background to make the character into a more interesting game piece you shouldn't need a Prestige Class to do it.
Couldn't agree more. Prestige Classes should give quirky, specific abilities. The core classes should be able to cover most basic concepts for each class. People should be able to make the character they want ot play at first level.
Quick question: how much tweaking did 1st level modules require?
We calculated CMB and used a base of 12 + CMB instead of 15. We created our characters giving them HP equal to Max Hit Dice for first level + con mod + racial bonus. When I have to reference a monster from the 3.5 monster manual I don't modify it at all. I just calculate the CMB if the player does something that requires it. So overall there wasn't much modification at all.
Regarding CMB. My players are doing a lot more grappling, throwing, pushing, etc in their battles because it's so much easier to handle those rules.
The only other thing we notice is that the players seem to level up sooner. I may move to the slower advancement table.
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I am talking specifically about the Harrower, if you haven´t noticed. It has fantastic flavor, IMO, but it´s abilities are sub-par to what the base Sorcerer gets by now.
I think it really depends on the campaign.
I have a harrower in my CotCT game right now, and she is loving her character. With all the harrow cards around, its really been very flavorful for her and she has been loving the use of her cards, whether boosting the group every day with small buffs that have really proved helpful or doing things like using her attacking cards which is a force effect against the large number of incorporeal creatures towards the end of the game.
Right now we are about a session, maybe a session and a half from the end of the game(we do 9 hour sessions, so they are about half way through the last book) and I suspect
It would be nice to have the Prestige Classes become redundant BECAUSE the base classes are so flexible. It seems with taking multiple classes the old idea that this class is a straight spell thrower this one is a tank is hopefully becoming a thing of the past. If you want background to make the character into a more interesting game piece you shouldn't need a Prestige Class to do it.
They are already redundant... Prestige classes are an optional rule and they will continue to be an optional rule, so the game should be capable to function even without them...
When it comes to optional class rules, my preference goes to substitution levels, because they allow the same personalization and specialization of a PrC without having to leave your main class and its abilities behind...
Substitution levels are also a more interesting way to represent members of a certain race, cult or organization than PrC: you can change a class only the bit that is necessary, without all the flaws of true multiclass...
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I think that most of the classes are going to be toned down again. I want to say that the Barbarian will be going back almost exactly like the 3.5 version, Sorcerers will losesome Bloodline abilities, and Clerics are going back to Domains, though the Domains will not be the 3.5 versions.
i really really hope you are wrong in all this! specially domains, i love PF domains
i am not very much fan of repstigue classes, but aye, for specializing in an area and flavor its ok, but sometiems what i need to be done is done by the base classes... i just add the flavor to the character with background, feats and sometiems magic items. still for flavor... half the classes need more skill points :P which we gave in our house rules