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Hi all -
I just finished reading SD1 on Sunday in preparation for my Jan. 2009 running of the SDAP. As my daughter got married on Tuesday, I've been swamped and just started reading SD2/PFAP14 tonight. While sitting on my stool and letting the girlie dogs in the yard, my SD2 split open at 14 and 15, leaving those two pages as loose, with several others beginning the loosening process. I'm unsure if others have experienced this with this issue or previous issues. I didn't with SD1, which I carried around for a while as I read it. Is there a process for returning this issue for a new one?
Be Well and Thanks,
Theocrat Issak
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I noticed that my copy of PF #14 was splitting in exactly the same place. At first I thought it was just a natural part of the binding, but then realised that the spine had been damaged in transit. The spine on my copy of PF #15 is twisted in the same place, although its between pages 82 & 83 that the binding seems to be going wonky.
I was quite surprised, as normally those cardboard envelopes give my shipments truly excellent protection! Anyway, I was just wondering if it was likely the damage in transit that caused this, or just n unfortunate printing problem.
Cheers,
U
Oye, same here. I had to super glue it together which seems to fix it but I was disappointed when it gave out after the first real read through.
Ukos, Gray Eminence, and Xenootch
I have set replacements to go out with your next subscription shipment!
However, the spine of the book is predisposed to separation at those points (and some others as well) because those are where two signatures meet (grouping of pages). Any soft cover book will separate between the signatures if the spine is folded far enough. While we will replace them, it is a normal occurrence and we don't typically send replacements for this kind of thing.
Alison
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Ukos, Gray Eminence, and Xenootch
I have set replacements to go out with your next subscription shipment!
However, the spine of the book is predisposed to separation at those points (and some others as well) because those are where two signatures meet (grouping of pages). Any soft cover book will separate between the signatures if the spine is folded far enough. While we will replace them, it is a normal occurrence and we don't typically send replacements for this kind of thing.
Alison
Thank you very much Alison, that's much appreciated.
Incidentally, I had wondered if it was this initially, but dismissed it as a possibility because I thought the signatures were multiples of 16. Is it just the case of pages being near those numbers, or am I completely mistaken?
Cheers,
U
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Ukos, Gray Eminence, and Xenootch
I have set replacements to go out with your next subscription shipment!
However, the spine of the book is predisposed to separation at those points (and some others as well) because those are where two signatures meet (grouping of pages). Any soft cover book will separate between the signatures if the spine is folded far enough. While we will replace them, it is a normal occurrence and we don't typically send replacements for this kind of thing.
Alison
Hi Allison,
Unfortunately I will have to disagree with you. I am still in the process of GMing The Curse of the Crimson Throne, so I have placed my Second Darkness Books right on the shelf with the rest of my live long RPG Collection without opening them (although I made use of the PDF to browse through them).
After reading this Thread I checked into both, my Gods and Magic Book as well as the first three SD Books. The Gods and Magic does not show any problems, but AP 14 and 15 seem to show the same signs at exactly the same spot. The top of the Binding between page 14 and 15 is perfect, but going farther down, the binding is not as tight as on the top. This might suggest that there really might be an issue with the binding. So you might want to check if this problem occurs more often.
Please note, that since I am aware of the problem, I will just place the books in my collection and leave them there, so they will stay whole. For gaming purposes I just make use of the PDF. Thus sending me a new one will definitely not be necessary.
Oh, by the way: Thanks again for your help yesterday and for your really fast E-Mail response to my query regarding the combining of shipments and all the other stuff that I kept you occupied with. I really appreciate the help and perfect service.
So now its back to browsing, tea, cough medicine and more reading on your site.
Best regards from Germany
Joerg
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Vic, just thought I’d mention here that my PF 14 has the same problem in the same place as described here. It’s certainly not bad enough that I need a replacement or anything, but after one read through the binding at this location is noticeably separated and the pages to either side seem a little loose. I’ve checked it against PF 1 through 13 and it’s certainly unique to number 14.
Just to add to the data on this problem!
Hmmm … PF 14 was held up in US customs, then took an extra long time to ship to Australia and some European locations, and now this … is 14 an unlucky number in Golarion?
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This may be some general problem, as my PF14 also broke between page 14 and 15, and also, my Gods and magic book broke between pages 14 and 15. This must be some technological problem...
I also had a clump come out of my Gods & Magic when I brought it out at my gaming table for the first time yesterday, though not the same pages (I'm at work so I don't know what pages it was, I think it was about 3/4 of the way through the book, will check when I get back home). I'd noticed the binding in one place looked like it was seperating when I was reading it a couple of days earlier (though there's no visible damage to the spine) and it literally just dropped out as soon as I passed it over for my players to flick through. A shame it came out then rather than when I was reading it; that was really unfortunate timing given one of the things I frequently mention about Paizo when recommending products to friends is the excellent print and binding quality!
Haven't noticed any problems with my PF14, though I only got my shipment a week ago and haven't had time to do anything more than flick through most of it, I'll give it a close look over tonight...
Director of Sales
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I also had a clump come out of my Gods & Magic when I brought it out at my gaming table for the first time yesterday,
I will put a replacement copy in with your next subscription shipment, Illessa.
A shame it came out then rather than when I was reading it; that was really unfortunate timing given one of the things I frequently mention about Paizo when recommending products to friends is the excellent print and binding quality!
Well... Honestly, nobody's perfect. :) I like to think that "Quality" isn't necessarily having a perfect record, but rather "Quality" involves how the inevitable problems are dealt with. In this sense, while we don't have a lot to do with production or creation, Alison and I (i.e. Paizo Customer Service) get to ensure that Paizo makes a quality product as much as the editors, contributors, etc. :)
:)
Thanks,
cos
***EDIT*** I just re-read that last bit, and.. MAN... that sounds like cheesy corp-speak.
But... y'know what?
It's true, dammit! And I'm standing by it! So there. :P
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Our printer is looking into it.
Hi Vic,
Thanks a lot thats all one can ask for.
By the way, your offer to replace items that fall apart are mooooooooore than generous. I don't believe that a lot of retailers, where most of us gamers usually get their stuff from, would offer the same.
I guess I speak for all of us: THAAAANKS a LOOOOT.
BUT: To all of those out there who might try to make a small profit out of Paizos willingness to give away replacements, Pleeeeease only take up that unofficial offer if it is realy necessary. I am afraid (from own experience) that the one or the other might abuse the kindness that Paizo shows.
To any of you who really have problems with a products binding, I kindly ask you to send any damaged product back to Paizo in exchange for a replacement. (coverage of postage, I leave open for negotiation). This will ensure that only honest complaints will be posted/refunded.
@ Vic and Co.: I hope you will forgive me the above suggestion for returning damaged goods as proof of a "Damage". I surely acknowledge that requests like this are solely your decision.
@ all:
The above recommendation to return damaged goods as exchange for new goods is not out of mistrust to anyone in particular or in general. In the past, I as "generous and, (I believe) fair" EX-Retailer have made my own experiences with "un-proven" complaints. Do not mistake me, any proven damages to merchandise, if badly manufactured, deserves a replacement. Any non-proven complaint, in my experience, remains to be questionable. Remember: any misuse of ones generosity will sooner or later come back to you and will, if overly exploited in general, will also hurt all of us people in the community.
Please help to stay fair!
I hope that my english was sufficient enough to not sound as a jerk!!!!!
Thanks for listening
and happy Thanksgiving to all of you. (I'll have to wait till Saturday for my turkey; No such holiday here in this part of Europe, although quite a few friends and acquaintances are bugging me for a recipe. Unfortunately I am still searching for the perfect stuffing. Any suggestions or Ideas????).
Best regards from Germany
George
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Probably not worth mentioning, and certainly nothing I was going to report until I saw this post. About an hour ago, the early part of my #14 gave out too. The little 'mini-book' (as these books are comprised of a number of little sections, no?) from pages 3-14 (table of contents to Captain Josper Creesy) has fallen out, and is a little book unto itself now.
It doesn't bother me in the slightest, I just keep pushing the thing back in, but, if you're looking into it, I thought another report may be beneficial. I got mine from my local store, here in Canada.
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Hi all -
Just yesterday the mailman dropped off my big box of Paizo goodies. Thank you for the replacement of SD2, I do appreciate it. I just looked at my Gods & Magic but didn't see any potential for page loss. Seems odd that it creeped in with this particular batch (SD2) and I hope Vic is able to let us know of a cause.
For those with page loss is there anybody that knows about re-gluing the pages back in? Just in case you aren't asking for a replacement?
I also don't think that the issue would likely be abused, only in that if I (or someone else) keeps asking for replacement copies I'm sure Paizo Customer Service would notice the trend. No matter what, I hope that someone doesn't take unfair advantage. This is a group of Gamers helping Gamers (as a Greyhawk Theocrat, I know that Erik Mona and Lisa "Greyhawk MegaBabe" Stevens are legendary Greyhawk Gamers) and have finally "made it." They are our current future for gaming (until our teenagers and kids begin writing excellent adventures) and we need to support the company.
Be Well,
Theocrat
We Defend Her Glory and Righteousness,
Theocrat Issak the Crusade Herald
Church of the Holy Crusaders of Iomedae
Hi all -
I just finished reading SD1 on Sunday in preparation for my Jan. 2009 running of the SDAP. As my daughter got married on Tuesday, I've been swamped and just started reading SD2/PFAP14 tonight. While sitting on my stool and letting the girlie dogs in the yard, my SD2 split open at 14 and 15, leaving those two pages as loose, with several others beginning the loosening process. I'm unsure if others have experienced this with this issue or previous issues. I didn't with SD1, which I carried around for a while as I read it. Is there a process for returning this issue for a new one?
same thing happened to me this week as I was running SD2 page 3 - 14 fell outta the book as one clump. I was a little surprised since all my old Dungeons even going back as far as issue 16 are still in good shape with its cover intact and all. I had noticed that splitting at page 14 before but I decided not to gripe about it. I just tried to open it carefully so as not to make it worse. But, its fallen outta the book now...
with a heavy heart I decided to post on this forum and lo' and behold I find that I wasn't the only one. *whew*
*gripe*
is there an address that I should send this to?
Cohlrox - I've set a replacement to go out with your next subscription shipment.
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Yeah there's definitely something to this. I didn't notice it when flipping through when it came in the mail, but I'm going through bit by bit in preparation for running the module this Sunday. And behold there is a bad binding separation between pages 14 and 15. Now I must say that the pages have not fallen out on me yet and I am not specifically asking for a product replacement. I know that it is costly. I am continually amazed by how the care that Paizo takes of it's customer base. I love your prompt customer service response time and I also love getting unexpected item cards with my shipments from time to time. Thanks for everything you do.
For those with page loss is there anybody that knows about re-gluing the pages back in? Just in case you aren't asking for a replacement?Unfortunately I haven't experienced that yet; so far my books have kept all their pages, but you can see through to the spine when the book is open to a certain page.
I suspect you mean, "Fortunately, you have not experienced it yet"
After reading this thread, I looked at mine and I can see the binding between pages 14 and 15 (and between no other pages in the rest of the whole book). When I run SD2, I think I will just print any necessary pages from my free subscriber PDF and leave the print copy mostly alone (unless Vic's query with the printer offers a simple solution). That will be much simpler for all of us.
My SD 2 is falling apart in the same place. The pages haven't separated from the book yet but I can see right through to the spine. This hasn't happened with any other Pathfinder RP product I own and, like many on these boards, I have them all.
well, since Pazio is great and sending me a replacement and they dont seem to want the messed up one back...
I'm willing to experiment on my messed up copy and report back to this post
so, I'll try the super glue first and report back
I suspect thought that super glue will not be a permanent solution to paper products, it tends to get flaky with age
Ill even put up some pictures somewhere of my fix experiments
anyone else got any other experimental procedures that they would like to see attempted on my messed up copy?
Ya I have used the super glue as well (on SD2). Only thing is that I didn't exactly line up with the rest of the book, so those two pages look kinda out place...curses for it not being perfect.
But on the flip side we just finished the chapter last night and my group had a blast! Our monk was luckily the only one in the tumbling tower and didn't get a scratch on him plus he fended off many 'blue-doggies' and saved some cyphermages. Needless to say, he thought he was invincible after that.
I can't wait to start SD 3 which, btw, does not have any defects after my 80 billion readings. Woo Paizo!