I hate to ask but how soon can we expect a reprint? I'm looking at this log and becoming a bit discouraged.
While there are quite a few errors... it's worth pointing out that a lot of the "errors" in this thread are actually questions and comments and clarifications... not actual errors in the text. The current printing still works fine, is what I'm saying, and we've got a lot left. A reprint is probably not going to be happening anytime soon... and it'll take over 2 months for a reprint to hit shelves after we pull that "GO" lever anyway...
Most of the errors are things like simple typos or missing apostrophes or stuff like that. Nothing that makes the book unusable.
I hate to ask but how soon can we expect a reprint? I'm looking at this log and becoming a bit discouraged.
While there are quite a few errors... it's worth pointing out that a lot of the "errors" in this thread are actually questions and comments and clarifications... not actual errors in the text. The current printing still works fine, is what I'm saying, and we've got a lot left. A reprint is probably not going to be happening anytime soon... and it'll take over 2 months for a reprint to hit shelves after we pull that "GO" lever anyway...
Most of the errors are things like simple typos or missing apostrophes or stuff like that. Nothing that makes the book unusable.
To confirm what James has said, I get the impression that a lot of the actual 'problems' (as opposed to queries or requests for additional information) which I'm reporting are:
1) map errors.
2) typing errors.
3) 'composition' errors where grammar or punctuation seem a bit odd, or someone seems to have started to write something, then decided to rewrite it, but only got it half done.
Edit:
The Paizo staff are usually very good at promptly answering any specific questions if the poster (or emailer) makes clear that there is a need for speedy reply. (As are most of the contributors who write for modules.)
This is one of those lines where the words are squashed together in the print version of the Campaign Setting. ( I wish I could work out why some of these look more obvious and worse than others; is every line spaced out separately by your layout program? I almost fingered the ‘weather and climate. Stalk beetles, big as ponies, strip entire’ line on page 123 as another of these, but the words looked clearer for some reason and I gave it the benefit of the doubt.)
P. 122
“Rahadoum” wrote:
…Individual Osiriani might distrust the Godless Traders, but Osirion’s government and military find them excellent neighbors…
Minor Observation: Osirion and Rahadoum don’t actually share a border, although with both countries being at the northern end of the same continent and having only Thuvia between them, I can see a sort of case for still considering them ‘neighbours’ (sorry, UK spelling there; I assume ‘neighbors’ is the correct US version.).
P. 123
“Rahadoum” wrote:
…The Mwangi Expanse, across the desert and over the mountains, is too far and too decentralized for city dwellers. Nomads, however, cross the borders frequently, bringing treasures to market at great expense...
No indication has actually been given before this pair of sentences that Rahadoum society consists of BOTH city dwelling AND nomadic cultures, so the first of these sentences can read in a very confusing (and incomplete seeming) manner. At the very least, may I suggest the sentences be combined with a semicolon to try to balance them, if not revised into something like: ‘The Mwangi Expanse, across the desert and over the mountains, is too far away and too decentralized for Rahadoum’s city dwellers to travel to; Rahadoum’s nomads, however, cross the borders frequently, bringing treasures to market at great expense.’
“Rahadoum” wrote:
Rahadoum’s enduring athiestic nature has had another, invisible side effect.
‘Athiestic’ should be ‘atheistic’? (And is there a possible case for finishing this statement with a colon or semicolon, since the next sentence commencing 'Outsider servitors..' goes on to explain what that side effect is?)
“Rahadoum” wrote:
…This is not surprising by itself, as Rahadoum possesses a well-deserved reputation for monstrously large beetles known all the way down to Mwangi Expanse…
Should be ‘…down to the Mwangi Expanse’?
“Rahadoum(Botosani)” wrote:
…The Pure Legion hopes to secure outside help to either damage the cult or to create a public spectacle it can help to clean up- and look like heroes in the end.
Observation: The phrasing of the latter part of this sentence seems jarring. May I suggest something like: ‘…or to create a public spectacle that will leave the Legion members who clean it up looking like heroes.’
I am surprised that the Rahadoum entry does not touch on the fact that Cheliax is occupying formerly Rahadoumi land (the province of Kharijite) in the northwest if the country; although the regional map does not name this area, the Cheliax map on page 69 does. On which subject:
P. 69 If Kharijite is part of Cheliax proper, then the map here should indicate Cheliax's clearly defineable boundary (on land) with Rahadoum. For that matter, if Kharijite is a servitor-state of Cheliax (as is Isger) there still should be a line to mark the borders of this 'mini state'.
The same applies to the regional map.
Apologies for the delay in Razmiran errata/queries. I've hit a snag with a particular passage, and I am going to have to sleep on it to see if that brings a change of perspective.
Is there a precise difference between Taldan and Taldorian?
At first glance, Taldan seems to be the adjective related to the ethnicity and Taldorian, the nation/kingdom/empire. Yet, in the "Taldan" section on page 30, "Taldan" seems to be used for both meanings.
While there are quite a few errors... it's worth pointing out that a lot of the "errors" in this thread are actually questions and comments and clarifications... not actual errors in the text. The current printing still works fine, is what I'm saying, and we've got a lot left. A reprint is probably not going to be happening anytime soon... and it'll take over 2 months for a reprint to hit shelves after we pull that "GO" lever anyway...
Most of the errors are things like simple typos or missing apostrophes or stuff like that. Nothing that makes the book unusable.
And to further back this up, I'd me more than willing to bet that if we got a crew together to comb through some WOTC products, especially campaign settings, we'd fine similar if not a greater amount of mistakes.
The fact that James is actually logging the errors to make some changes when it makes sense for them to do so says a lot, since WOTC has reprinted several books without ever adding in errata or fixing mistakes.
I'm certainly not lamenting that I purchased the book when I did, and I've heard no complaints from the guys in my group that picked the book up after they saw mine.
Is there a precise difference between Taldan and Taldorian?
At first glance, Taldan seems to be the adjective related to the ethnicity and Taldorian, the nation/kingdom/empire. Yet, in the "Taldan" section on page 30, "Taldan" seems to be used for both meanings.
There is.
Taldan is the adjective form, and Taldorian is kind of a made-up word that we're probably gonna phase out of use.
Sorry Jason; Razmiran’s entry has come up. I am feeling slightly guilty reporting these…
P. 124
“Razmiran” wrote:
…He appeared first the people of Xer...
Should read ‘…He appeared first to the people of Xer…’
“Razmiran” wrote:
…Razmir claimed to have taken the Test of the Starstone in far-away Absalom, and through this test he claimed to attain divinity…
Quibble: ‘…and through this test he claimed to have attained divinity…’ might read better; I am uncertain whether the sentence as it stands reads better in US English.
“Razmiran” wrote:
…In the months following his takeover of Xer, Razmir’s faith began to spread across the Arch-Duchy, until eventually it led to the capital of Aerduin, on the border of the Vergan Forest…
Quibble: Should ‘…until eventually it led to the capital of Aerduin, on the border of the Vergan Forest…’ be ‘…until eventually it came to the capital of Aerduin, on the border of the Vergan Forest…’? I can see that the sense intended to be conveyed here might be of a chain of events with ‘one event leading to another’, but in that case, perhaps ‘…until this eventually led to a confrontation in the capital, Aerduin, on the border of the Vergan Forest…’ might do as well as what is currently written?
“Razmiran” wrote:
…While the common-folk toil at their fields or trade, the faithful take a portion of their work known as the Tithing Step. The clergy, meanwhile, enjoys a life of comfort, with their station in the faith granting them a great deal of power and wealth. Those who dare to defy the faith face severe punishment- imprisonment, exile, or even execution. This leads many to join the faith as a path of prosperity regardless of their belief. Such acolytes are sent to the Exalted Wood...
Comment: This passage seems to me to be muddled and confused, not least because of unhelpful switching back and forth of subjects. Who are 'The Faithful'? They certainly don't seem to be the clergy, because the clergy are indicated as being apparently separate from them with the next sentence beginning 'The Clergy, meanwhile....' Then, apparently it is the clergy '...who dare defy the faith...' who face dire punishments. And apparently those who dare defy the faith being punished creates a path of prosperity which leads to people wanting to join it?
It's entirely possible that in this case I've spent far too long looking at this passage, and some punctuation adjustments (or switching around the order of the second and third sentences?) would clarify things.
Although as a further comment/query for this passage would 'The Clergy, meanwhile, enjoy...' fit better than 'The Clergy, meanwhile, enjoys...' with this later in the sentence: '...a life of comfort, with their station in the faith granting them...'?
“Razmiran(Razmir’s Temples)” wrote:
...A temple houses a large worship chamber arranged around a great set of stone steps that lead up to a gold or silver mask. At first, these temples set up in the poorest neighborhoods, and their priests gave alms and tended to the sick as best they could (since they have no divine magic). They use their flocks to influence local governments...
Comment/Quibble: Something about the third sentence I quote here doesn't seem to quite follow on from the second sentence. Would: 'The priests now use their flocks to influence local governments...' be possible, since it seems to read more smoothly to me with that change?
Regional map (uh-oh, another regional map error! :D):
‘Thornstep’ is the name put to the capital of Razmiran on the regional map whereas the entry consistently uses ‘Thronestep’.
Also, according to the regional map the town/city of ‘Tymon’ is within the borders of Razmiran; no settlement of this name is not mentioned in the Razmiran entry, but one IS mentioned in The River Kingdoms entry. It seems to me that the east border of Razmiran and/or Tymon are incorrectly placed on the regional map.
There seems to be some confusion with the names of some of the Linnorm Kings. White Estrid/Astrid has already been discussed, but two other Linnorm Kings have discrepancies as well.
In the Gazetteer (p.38) as well as in the Campaign Setting in the Ulfen entry (p.35) and the Linnorm Kings Rulers entry (p.92), we have Ingimundr the Unruly, but in the Linnorm Kings entry under Bildt (p.93) he is listed as Ingrimundr the Unruly.
Similarly, in the Gazetteer (p.38), we have Sveinn Blood-Eagle, but he is listed in the Linnorm Kings Rulers entry (p.92) and in the Government and Kalsgard entries (p.92-93) as Svienn Bood-Eagle.
There seems to be some confusion with the names of some of the Linnorm Kings. White Estrid/Astrid has already been discussed, but two other Linnorm Kings have discrepancies as well.
In the Gazetteer (p.38) as well as in the Campaign Setting in the Ulfen entry (p.35) and the Linnorm Kings Rulers entry (p.92), we have Ingimundr the Unruly, but in the Linnorm Kings entry under Bildt (p.93) he is listed as Ingrimundr the Unruly.
Similarly, in the Gazetteer (p.38), we have Sveinn Blood-Eagle, but he is listed in the Linnorm Kings Rulers entry (p.92) and in the Government and Kalsgard entries (p.92-93) as Svienn Bood-Eagle.
P. 35 of the Campaign Setting uses both versions, Ingimundr AND Ingrimundr.
The way this one recurs, maybe there are two versions of his name? When he's sitting on his throne, dispensing justice, or leading his warriors in battle it's the 'formal' one, but at home or with his friends it's the other? Like Aramaintha sometimes gets shortened to Minty, Josephine to Jo, or Benjamin to Ben?
Although the typo error of a missing 'r' does seem more likely.
...Founded by a Taldoran gladiator and hero of the Fifth Army of Exploration that mapped the riverways of the unsettled territory dozens of centuries ago, Tymon's gladiator colleges and fabled arena enjoy a reputation that stretches into all lands that thrill to the dance of bloodsport...
Tymon is not listed in the Notable Settlements, even though it was apparently founded 'dozens of centuries ago' and has a 'fabled arena'? Why not?
Tymon is not listed in the Notable Settlements, even though it was apparently founded 'dozens of centuries ago' and has a 'fabled arena'? Why not?
I would suspect that it may be that Tymon doesn't have a population significant enough to be counted on the list.
It has gladiator colleges, and hosts forces from other River Kingdoms to keep Razmiran from pushing further into Tymon's part of the River Kingdoms.
If Tymon goes, Razmiran pushes maybe another ten or twenty miles further east and, having crossed the river Tymon is on, is in a position to move on Daggermark directly, the place that The River Kingdoms' various leaders like to have their annual get together (The Outlaw Council).
Edit:
The Gazetteer map, more accurate in the placement of cities than the Campaign Setting 'world map', puts Tymon on the river too, although the Gazetteer for some reason seem to show Tymon in Razmiran, also, even though the Gazetteer entry also puts Tymon in The River Kingdoms.
This monolithic ruined bridge spans the Straits of Aroden separating Avistan from Garund. The arch rises several hundred feet above the straits and stretches more than fifteen miles to connect Corentyn in Cheliax with Chalshotur Qasr in Kharijite. Roughly a third of the immense and ancient structure has collapsed, making it useless as a bridge.
Is 'Chalshotur Qasr' the name of a geographical feature at the Garund end of the Arch of Aroden; perhaps a headland where the southern part meets land? Corentyn is a location marked on both the world map and the Cheliax map, but Chalshotur Qasr is absent from both (though a town/city called 'Khari' is marked on the Cheliax map close to the Garund side of the strait).
Or could Chalshotur Qasr be the old Rahadoumi (or Jistkan, even?) name for the town, but it was changed by the Cheliaxan conquerers to Khari?
...and each year, Ullorth Ungin pleads for "true champions of the Riverfolk" to step forward at the Outlaw Council to help him. For a wonder, each year, some lordling or another pledges his support against Razmir, and the independence of the kingdoms is preserved.
I have no idea at all is meant by 'For a wonder...' Is it a colloquialism for 'Amazingly...', or is Ullorth giving out some sort of magical 'wonders' or other bribes to get assistance?
Humorous Comment: With regards to Razmir, I keep on wanting to put an accent over the 'i', so that Razmir becomes Razmír.... :D
…Desperate to remain in the empire’s favor rather than be left adrift, Sargava’s appointed ruler, Baron Grallus, gathered much of the colony’s taxation treasury…
P.131
“Sargava” wrote:
Government: Having broken ties with Cheliax, the baron now rules Sargava as an independent kingdom by default, employing the faux-modest title of Custodian…
The current baron (Baron Utilinus) is not the Baron who some years earlier backed the wrong house in the civil war. For the (government) section I would suggest something like: ‘The ties with Cheliax long broken, the current baron rules Sargava as an independent kingdom by default, employing the faux-modest title of Custodian…’
Question: Is the baron’s self appointed title ‘Grand Custodian’ or ‘Custodian’? Or does it vary, by occasions?
P. 130
“Sargava” wrote:
Sargava is a land being pulled at its seams by multiple agendas. As Sargava’s ruler, the Baron Utilinus has come to discover that not one of them is his own.
The first sentence should possibly read: ‘Sargava is a land being pulled apart at its seams…’
‘As’ at the beginning of the second sentence is possibly unnecessary and confusing.
“Sargava” wrote:
…Flying their infamous black flags, the Free Captains ambushed the Chelaxian fleet and demonstrated their mariner supremacy.
‘…mariners’ supremacy.’ might be more grammatically correct.
“Sargava” wrote:
…Baron Grallus promised Port Peril not only Sargava’s remaining coffers, but a significant…
“Sargava” wrote:
…In the meantime, Sargava rots from within. With an empty coffer and no support from the Motherland…
Query: Should the first of these two quotes refer to ‘…remaining coffer…’, in the singular, as the second of the quotes does? (I take it that ‘coffer’ is a colloquial expression, Americanism or technical term for ‘treasury’?)
P. 131
“Sargava” wrote:
…For more about the goop, see the Equipment section of Chapter 5.
As a reminder, as discussed on the goop thread, goop is not covered in Chapter 5.
“Sargava(Mines of Deeptreasure)” wrote:
…The mine bosses promise the xorns a way home if they bring back more gems than they eat. The exact price, however, always remains tantalizingly vague.
Comment: These sentences seem jarring. Would at least swapping in a semicolon between them help to address this? It still might need some further work though, such as starting the second part with ‘The exact price for this service…’
Next time: fun with Sargava, the date of the Chelaxian civil war, and the Free Captains (AKA 'Just HOW LONG did Abrogail I of House Thrune reign for?)
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James Jacobs wrote:
johnnype wrote:
I hate to ask but how soon can we expect a reprint? I'm looking at this log and becoming a bit discouraged.
While there are quite a few errors... it's worth pointing out that a lot of the "errors" in this thread are actually questions and comments and clarifications... not actual errors in the text. The current printing still works fine, is what I'm saying, and we've got a lot left. A reprint is probably not going to be happening anytime soon... and it'll take over 2 months for a reprint to hit shelves after we pull that "GO" lever anyway...
Most of the errors are things like simple typos or missing apostrophes or stuff like that. Nothing that makes the book unusable.
Though I agree with you on that a reprint is not needed, one of my pet peeves about you guys is the lack of consolidated erratas from Paizo, lack being 0..
Nothing pisses me off more then to have to drudge through the forums for Fan made erratas for something I think the publisher should be doing.
Not sure if this is the right place to ask about this, but in any case, the extra Sorceror ability (on page 50) "Hidden Reserve" allows the sorcerer to cast extra spells and becoming fatigued, but at the cost of losing the summon familiar ability. I'm going to be playing a sorcerer and I'm interested in using this ability, but we're playing with the Pathfinder RPG beta rules, where sorcerer's don't have the summon familiar ability. What now??
Not sure if this is the right place to ask about this, but in any case, the extra Sorceror ability (on page 50) "Hidden Reserve" allows the sorcerer to cast extra spells and becoming fatigued, but at the cost of losing the summon familiar ability. I'm going to be playing a sorcerer and I'm interested in using this ability, but we're playing with the Pathfinder RPG beta rules, where sorcerer's don't have the summon familiar ability. What now??
If you're playing with the Pathfinder RPG beta, it's probably best to just ignore the Hidden Reserve ability... in fact, it might be best to ignore ALL of the alternate class abilities for now. If/when we reprint a Pathfinder RPG version of the Campaign Setting hardcover, we'll update the alternate class abilities to work with both the PF RPG and 3.5.
Some thoughts regarding rulers of House Thrune of Cheliax, correlated with details from Sargava, and one important date from the history of The Shackles.
Timeline (unclear dates marked ???? or ****):
4606 Aroden dies, leaving the Empire of Cheliax without a mandate. (Page 203)
???? At some point, civil war kicks off in Cheliax; Baron Grallus (of Sargava) at some point during this event backs House Davian, sending them money. (Page 130)
4640 Diabolists of House Thrune wrest control of Cheliax, brutally ending three decades of civil war. (Page 203) Abrogail I takes the throne. (Page 68)
???? Once House Thrune is firmly in control of Cheliax, ‘Her Majestrix’ (I’m guessing Abrogail I was meant here) turns her attention to ‘her more distant colonies’. (Page 130)
???? ‘Soon after’ House Thrune has solidified its position in Cheliax, a ‘flotilla of Chelaxian Galleons’ sets sail for Sargava’. (Page 130)
**** Baron Grallus allies with ‘The Free Captains’ from The Shackles to prevent the Chelaxian flotilla arriving, and to ensure Sargava’s autonomy from Cheliax. (Page 130)
4708 The Current Year (Page 203). Baron Utilinus is in charge in Sargava (Page 130), Queen Abrogail II (great granddaughter of her namesake, and the second longest ruler in infernal Cheliax’s 68 year history) is ‘child ruler’ (with a regent) in Cheliax. (Page 70).
The pirates of the Shackles do not unite together to form a single, effective force until the spring of 4674 (Page 132, Page 203). It seems to me that this is the earliest date at which Baron Grallus could make his deal with the Shackles pirates to prevent the Chelaxian fleet from arriving (**** in the timeline above; possibly, the offer from Grallus even helps the pirates to come together). This is 34 years after the Chelaxian civil war concluded, and Baron Grallus is presumably getting on in years by now, given that he was funding House Davian during it at a point sufficiently distant from the end result for it to look a good choice at the time.
There is no actual mention that ‘Her Majestrix’ who instigated the attempt to send galleons to Sargava was Abrogail I, which I had believed that there was indication of when I made my previous post. If so she would have been on the throne for 30 years by this point although with infernal assistance, the years may have been far from harsh on her in terms of physical ageing.
Incidentally, if Abrogail I at some date in 4674 or later was the monarch of Cheliax to send the flotilla to Sargava, some of the rulers to come between her and her great-granddaughter (who besides having the second-longest reign thus far is the sixth person to wear the crown since House Thrune gained control of Cheliax (Page 70)) may well have been *exceptionally* short lived. (A bit of assassination going on by any chance, in a LE fashion of course?) Something resembling too much disorder occurring in the succession to the crown may have been precisely why General Gorthoklek was dispatched back to Golarion to be her regent when she ‘took the throne’. (Page 70)
It may be several days before any more of these Campaign Setting posts are forthcoming from me. Recent events on 4E threads have left me rather feeling rather drained, and I have a feeling I am going to need some time off posting to recover. I currently intend to be back to resume these reports at some point, however.
What exactly is the ‘healy myrrh’ referred to in the list of ‘exotic magical luxuries for which Qadira is known’, on page 120? I checked the Flora entry of the Campaign Setting, and also the Equipment section, but could find no answer. Being mentioned alongside silversheen blades and heatstones (as well as actually being mentioned as a 'exotic magical luxury'), I presume that it must have some sort of unusual properties?
Healy myrh is something that we haven't detailed yet. One of my design philosophies is to not detail EVERYTHING in a book; it's best to leave some things (like what healy myrh is) for later. Then, in a later book (say, something like a "Herbalists of Qadira") we give game rules for the stuff, and as we do we drop in a few more references to other things.
Basically, we're seeding future books when we do things like this. This one was probably handled a bit poorly, though, in that by giving heatstones a section in the equipment part of the book, we set up a false expectation that the other two things should be detailed as well.
As for what healy myrh is... you know as much about the stuff as we do at this point! It's apparently some sort of exotic incense or something... maybe something that when you breathe the fumes it gives off make you forget stuff...
This is one of those lines where the words are squashed together in the print version of the Campaign Setting. ( I wish I could work out why some of these look more obvious and worse than others; is every line spaced out separately by your layout program? I almost fingered the ‘weather and climate. Stalk beetles, big as ponies, strip entire’ line on page 123 as another of these, but the words looked clearer for some reason and I gave it the benefit of the doubt.)
We use InDesign for layout, and often when you drop in an image and wrap text around it, the text does weird things. Normally, as part of the editorial process, we note these and hand-correct them as necessary when they occur. Since these errors that snuck through are all associated with the image on the first page of a new region that shows the symbol, I suspect that there's something going on there that reflected a last minute adjustment and we just didn't have the time to fix them or, indeed, find them in the first place. They'll all be corrected in the reprint.
Tymon is not listed in the Notable Settlements, even though it was apparently founded 'dozens of centuries ago' and has a 'fabled arena'? Why not?
I suspect because whoever was working on building the Notable Settlements section forgot about Tymon or didn't notice that it had a pretty big footprint or just plain wasn't paying attention. I'll make a not to maybe put Tymon on the notable settlements page, but it MIGHT be a case of there just not being enough room in the entry to add another city. In fact, I'm pretty sure this is what happened.
We'll be doing a fair amount in the relatively near future with Cheliax. That product or those products are the proper place to work out the gory details, in any case.
This is one of those lines where the words are squashed together in the print version of the Campaign Setting. ( I wish I could work out why some of these look more obvious and worse than others; is every line spaced out separately by your layout program? I almost fingered the ‘weather and climate. Stalk beetles, big as ponies, strip entire’ line on page 123 as another of these, but the words looked clearer for some reason and I gave it the benefit of the doubt.)
We use InDesign for layout, and often when you drop in an image and wrap text around it, the text does weird things. Normally, as part of the editorial process, we note these and hand-correct them as necessary when they occur. Since these errors that snuck through are all associated with the image on the first page of a new region that shows the symbol, I suspect that there's something going on there that reflected a last minute adjustment and we just didn't have the time to fix them or, indeed, find them in the first place. They'll all be corrected in the reprint.
...Forgotten ruins of an ancient civilization dot the island chain and treacherous coastline, their crumbling stone walls carved with horrible depictions of cannibalism and blood sacrifice. So disturbing are these images that when Chelish explorers discovered these ruins 600 years ago, they marked the region cursed and haunted on their maps and continued south to found the colony of Sargava...
DM Reference questions:
Are these ruins from the lost Kingdom of Ghol-Gan, which I see from the map once occupied the same approximate geographic area?
If so, as a matter of interest, then what killed off the kingdom of Ghol-Gan? Further information on Ghol-Gan and its history in the Campaign Setting is somewhat scarce, mention being made (P. 222) of a '...waterlogged temple of Xanthuun in the Sodden Lands...' which contain the treasures of the last patriarch, Ammelon VI, (although this location does not appear to be marked on any of the maps in the Campaign Setting), but that being about the full extent of any information. Like Thassilon, was Ghol-Gan casualty of The Earthfall? (Ghol-Gan, unlike Yamasa and Lirgen, seems not to be a casualty of Aroden's demise & the formation of the Eye of Abendego, since that particular catastrophe only happened 100 years ago, but Chelish explorers noticed the ruins 600 years ago...)
By the way, I was curious as to the mention of the druid's 'Xebec', and googled for details, and found the following site with an image of a model chebec [xebec]: *link*
Errata?:
The map of the Mwangi Expanse (P. 105) which extends to cover the bordering nations to the west omits the port of Ollo in The Shackles, even though the other three 'Notable Settlements' of The Shackles (Port Peril, Quent, and Drenchport) are marked on that map.
…Those tower tops are now interconnected by crude networks of rope bridges and pulleys built by the last of the Lirgeni who still remain behind, determined to survive…
P. 106
“Mwangi Expanse(Jaha)” wrote:
…The crumbling city, which teems with life above silent tombs that predate the Earthfall, is ruled by the paranoid, wild-eyed astrologer-remnants of the Lergeni, a people wiped from the face of Golarion by disaster, madness and suicide…
The survivors in The Sodden Lands are referred to as ‘Lirgeni’, the survivors who emigrated to Jaha are referred to as ‘Lergeni’; which version is correct, or is the spelling difference intentional to differentiate between the two different groups?
As a further point the implication of the Mwangi Expanse entry seems to be that THERE ARE NO OTHER SURVIVORS from Lirgen, but according to The Sodden Lands entry, there clearly are- unless the implication is supposed to be that those who emigrated to Jaha were the only astrologers from Lirgen to survive? (Although this still runs up against the question of whether the descendants of the Saoc Brethren known still to exist, also mentioned in The Sodden Lands entry, are (besides being philosophers) astrologers?)
P. 134
“The Sodden Lands” wrote:
Jula: A coastal sanctuary that welcomes refugees from all walks of life…
On neither the world map, nor the local map of the Mwangi Expanse and its neighbours, is Jula indicated as being on the coast. The other settlements may have been similarly misplaced.
As a further note, Hyrantam was indicated as being the Capital of Lirgen on Page 134. At present, correlating with the ‘Lost Kingdoms’ map on page 223, it does indeed currently appear to be the CORRECT side of the river which marked the boundary between the two nations. If whomever is carrying out the map revisions could please make sure that Hyrantam stays on the correct (north) side of the river, if it gets moved, thank-you? :D
“The Sodden Lands(Kokutang)” wrote:
…While Kukotang includes a wind-washed village on the surface, much of what remains of the capital is now…
Everywhere else in the entry, the settlement is ‘Kokutang’, not ‘Kukotang’.
I am also uncertain if ‘wind-washed’ is some sort of intended poetic language; ‘windswept’ I have heard of, and ‘storm-lashed’, but not ‘wind-washed’. (Also, implied wind without rain does seem rather tame weather for The Sodden Lands.)
“The Sodden Lands(Lirgen and the Saoc Brethren)” wrote:
… syndicate of astrological philosophers dependent on prophesy.
This line is one of those ones with words squashed up close together in the print version of the Campaign Setting.
P. 134-135
“The Sodden Lands(Yamasa and the Koboto)” wrote:
…Explorers now report that Yamasa’s ruling caste, the Kuboto, did indeed survive, and that they did so by calling upon Yamasa’s forgotten ways of old – resorting to cannibalism and forgotten necromancy…
‘Koboto’ in the title of this entry, but ‘Kuboto’ in the text; is this correct???
Also, if both the ‘ways of old’ and ‘necromancy’ were ‘forgotten’, how exactly did they know what they were, to be able to call upon them? Pedanticism aside, the appearance of ‘forgotten’ twice in such proximity seems dubious. Could something like ‘Explorers now report that Yamasa’s ruling caste, the Kuboto, did indeed survive, and that they did so by calling upon long shunned Yamasarian traditions – resorting to cannibalism and antique necromantic rites.’ fit better?
P. 135
“The Sodden Lands(The Abendego Piercing)” wrote:
…through the blinding storms and…
This line is borderline for words being squashed up close together in the print version.
“The Sodden Lands(Green blood on a black rock) wrote:
…an unstoppable half black dragon troll…
This line is borderline for words being squashed up close together in the print version, ‘half black’ in particular not helping.
For ease of reference, the following information was put out on the Pathfinder Blog, which is applicable to the Campaign Setting:
Spoiler:
Paizo Blog wrote:
Out of the Void
Wednesday, August 27, 2008
Keen-eyed readers of Chapter 3 of the Pathfinder Chronicles Campaign Setting have noticed that the deity Groetus, God of the End Times (that creepy moon nearby is his holy symbol, by the way), granted one less domain than the other gods. The problem there is, of course, the fact that there’s just not a lot of good choices for a chaotic neutral god of the apocalypse among the SRD domains—my goal was to include a new domain for Groetus, but space considerations got in the way.
But never fear! In the upcoming Gods and Magic, Groetus gets his missing domain—the Void domain! Keyed to the darkness between the stars and secrets humanity was not meant to know, the Void domain bolsters the mind against harmful magic while granting access to spells that allow flight through the empty places and the power to call down outsiders from beyond the stars.
Void Domain
Granted Power: You gain a +4 insight bonus on saving throws against all mind-affecting effects.
Void Domain Spells
1 Feather fall
2 Levitate
3 Fly
4 Lesser planar binding
5 Overland flight
6 Planar binding
7 Reverse gravity
8 Greater planar binding
9 Gate
James Jacobs
Pathfinder Editor-in-Chief
Some interesting information and queries were raised on the *product discussion thread* for the Campaign Setting. I have tried to link to the page where actual questions and additional information start to feed through, after the long period of speculation and dribble of facts leading upto the release.
Question:
The 'Creation' Domain for clerics is detailed in the Religion section, on Page 159, on page 159, but none of the deities or other beings listed in the Campaign Setting actually have it listed amongst their domains....
Which deity or deities grant access to the creation domain? Has there been an error in the allocation of domains to some deities, or is there going to be deity relevant information released at some point in the future (prestige class for some divine casters?) which makes use of this information?
If not, then it seems to me that you could drop the Creation domain in the reprint and insert Groetus' Void domain. :D
If we reprint the Campaign Setting after we switch to the PF RPG (which I suspect is likely, since we're selling the CS pretty briskly), we'll update it to the PF RPG rules then (which won't have much affect on the CS, really, but the domains WILL be changing at that point).
I've never liked when companies do this. Let the customers change their own rules, or release a second book with the updates (if that can't fit into the PFRPG itself). Otherwise I feel compelled to buy a second CS that's "up to date", and that in turn means I wasted money on the first book.
I don't mind editing for errors in upcoming prints becouse I don't tend to notice them, but chaning rules is a bit too much.
I've never liked when companies do this. Let the customers change their own rules, or release a second book with the updates (if that can't fit into the PFRPG itself). Otherwise I feel compelled to buy a second CS that's "up to date", and that in turn means I wasted money on the first book.
I don't mind editing for errors in upcoming prints becouse I don't tend to notice them, but chaning rules is a bit too much.
I do understand where you're coming from, but when we switch over to using the PF RPG, the campaign setting more or less has to be converted to the new rules. When we do this is mostly a question of how long the current printing remains in stock, though.
The PF RPG is a separate entity from the campaign setting, and putting errata for one book into another is unattractive to me since that forces someone to use two books and do a lot of unnecessary cross-referencing. Allowing customers to "change their own rules" is fine too, but part of the point of a campaign setting is to create a shared baseline for the customers, so we have to have a shared baseline for rules as well as flavor.
In the end, though, I suspect the changes between the 3.5 and a PF RPG campaign setting will be relatively minor, and will be limited to some of the alternate class abilities and to the domains. There's not a lot of "crunch" in the book, and the majority of what crunch IS in the book is unlikely to be changing too much since PF RPG and 3.5 are supposed to be very compatible.
Are these ruins from the lost Kingdom of Ghol-Gan, which I see from the map once occupied the same approximate geographic area?
If so, as a matter of interest, then what killed off the kingdom of Ghol-Gan?
Most, if not all of the Ghol-Gan stuff we've included hasn't yet been explored in depth, as far as I know. It's something that we'll be leaving mysterious for now, perhaps to explore at a later date in a later product. As such, I'm hesitant to answer any of these questions now since what we've got planned for the region is subject to change. And honestly... there's a lot of this that we DON'T have planned yet... so anyone's guess is as good as another.
The 'Creation' Domain for clerics is detailed in the Religion section, on Page 159, on page 159, but none of the deities or other beings listed in the Campaign Setting actually have it listed amongst their domains....
Which deity or deities grant access to the creation domain? Has there been an error in the allocation of domains to some deities, or is there going to be deity relevant information released at some point in the future (prestige class for some divine casters?) which makes use of this information?
If not, then it seems to me that you could drop the Creation domain in the reprint and insert Groetus' Void domain. :D
Replacing Creation with Void is a pretty good idea. That said... I'm relatively certain that some of the gods in Gods & Magic (including some that may have been cut for space from the hardcover) have access to the creation domain, so I'm actually okay with it being in the hardcover.
…and unable to fight a war on two fronts, Taldor focused its waning might on its ancient enemy in the east. It successfully repelled the Qadiri invasion, but…
I appreciate that Qadira is only the westernmost satrapy of the Padishah empire of Kelesh, but the quote specifically refers to the conflict between Taldor and Qadira- and on the world map Qadira is exclusively to the south of Taldor, not ‘in the east’. It is possible that the border between Taldor and Qadira may extend and swing around Taldor’s eastern flank, beyond the edge of what is shown on the world map, but I am dubious of this as a solution as it seems to me to invite all sorts of other questions as to the likely comparative sizes and resources of the two nations.
P. 137
“Taldor” wrote:
…Closer to home, Absalom humors Taldor as something like a doddering and decrepit grandfather. While the city-state still follows all the niceties of politics and diplomacy, it basically ignores its northern elder…
Quibble: I would describe Taldor as being more northeast of Absalom than north; in fact strictly speaking, Andoran is the nation due north of the position indicated on the world map for Absalom.
Working my way through the Chelaxian/Chelish mix ups in the entries I had already checked for other things; hope to be able to report back later today (within next six hours or so).
Cheliax/Chelaxian/Chelish Errata:
As far as I can understand, ‘Chelaxian’ is shorthand for ‘a human man or woman who fits into a particular racial type’, with much confusion existing amongst writers who have assumed that it can be used to mean ‘anything from Cheliax or with strongs ties to that country’, for which in fact ‘Chelish’ is the proper term to use.
P. 20
“Chelaxian” wrote:
…none of the Chelaxian people had any doubt that…
Quibble: The ‘people seems redundant to me; by cutting it, and adjusting accordingly, this could be reduced to something like: ‘…no Chelaxian had any doubt that…’
P. 21 I am unhappy with ‘Chelaxian Opera’ and ‘High Chelaxian Opera’; however as a formal term intended to be bombastic I can see that there might be a case for it.
P. 62
“Andoran(Almas)” wrote:
…Once the arms square of a Chelaxian fortress, the field of Concord…
I assume that the occupier’s nationality is being referred to here, not racial stock.
P. 63
“Andoran” wrote:
Augustana: …Andoran’s second city, Augustana, owes its name and importance to the prolonged presence of a large Chelaxian port and military camp…
See my previous comment.
“Andoran(The River Bird Catcher)” wrote:
…Duke Lapist, commander of a Chelaxian encampment, one day noticed …
See my previous comment.
P. 68
“Cheliax” wrote:
…Elements of Chelaxian culture appear in all those places and more, mostly in the ports and trading cities of dozens of nations. Despite the popularity of traditional Chelaxian culture…
I am dubious about these uses, since I suspect that Chelish culture (that of the nation) is under discussion here. However being bombastic where culture is involved is certainly a possibility.
P. 71
“Cheliax” wrote:
Westcrown: Once the center of Chelaxian civilization…
Again, I am dubious about this use, since it seems to me that it is an aspect of the nation being invoked here.
“Cheliax(Noble Scion)” wrote:
You are a member of a proud Chelaxian noble family…
Cheliax affinity, not the ‘Chelaxian (human)’ racial type is a pre-requisite of this feat.
P. 83
“Isger(Logas)” wrote:
…With the city within spitting distance from the Chelaxian border, Logas’ aristocracy quietly maneuvers for the day…
It seems to me that this should be ‘Chelish’, not ‘Chelaxian’. The border of a country (Cheliax) is under discussion, which exists irrespective of whether or not most of the inhabitants happen to be of ‘Chelaxian’ racial stock.
P. 102
“Molthune” wrote:
…deter potential Chelaxian and Drumish predation, and increase the nation’s wealth within 5 years…
Especially alongside ‘Drumish’ I would have thought ‘Chelish’ would be more appropriate here than ‘Chelaxian’.
P. 103
“Molthune” wrote:
…primarily of Chelaxian descent, the Imperial…
I am dubious about whether this is an error or not, since it is certainly conceivable that a description of racial stock could be intended. However, this sentence needs attention in any case, because it is one of those lines with the words squashed up all close together, which I seem to have missed reporting on my first read-through of Molthune. The second and third lines of the Molthune(government) entry on the same page could also do with some scrutiny on grounds of squashed up close together words in the print version.
P. 110
“Nidal” wrote:
…For centuries after their humiliation in the Everwar, the folk of Nidal bristled at Chelaxian occupation and influence…
The nationality of the occupiers, not their racial stock, is what I take to be the point here.
P. 130
“Sargava” wrote:
…Soon, a flotilla of Chelaxian galleons set sail for Sargava…
“Sargava” wrote:
…the Free Captains ambushed the Chelaxian fleet and demonstrated…
The fact that the fleet came from Cheliax, not that it was crewed by Chelaxians, is what I take to be the point here.
P. 132
“The Shackles” wrote:
…using the ancient harbours to hide from Chelaxian warships…
…and again, surely 'Chelish', not 'Chelaxian'?
“The Shackles” wrote:
…The Shackles have only one true ally – the former Chelaxian colony of Sargava…
It seems more likely to me that the national origin of the colony’s former controllers is the point here, not the racial stock. Also with regard to this quote, should it not be ‘The Shackles has only one true ally…’ since, if I understand correctly, ‘The Shackles’ in the case is one country (singular, not plural)?
“The Shackles” wrote:
…has offered to safely pilot a Chelaxian fleet to the Shackles in exchange for immunity…
…aaaaargh! Again the mixing up of nationality and racial stock.
Final thought for now: Is it that ‘x’ which sucks writers in? That it seems so much cooler to write about ‘Chelaxian civilization’, ‘Chelaxian culture’, and ‘a ‘Chelaxian flotilla’ than ‘Chelish’ equivalents?
James or Erik, please tell me if I have the wrong end of this particular stick, otherwise I suspect that I am going to keep tripping over and reporting these…
The whole Chelaxian/Chelish thing is something that caught us off-guard, and for several products we didn't really bother with the distinction because for several products, the idea of "Chelaxian" as an ethnicity wasn't in print, and as a result wasn't set in stone in the minds of most of us. Once it was pretty obvious that a Chelaxian and Chelish were different types of words entirely (Chelaxian is a noun, Chelish is an adjective), a lot of bad habits were already ingrained in our writers and our editors. Going forward, we basically have to retrain our brains to use the words the right way, and that retraining had only really just started when we were bearing down on the hardcover.
In the end... it's the type of error that is invisible to the vast majority, I suspect. Still something I'd like to fix and keep an eye on in the future, but certainly not anything that's game breaking (especially since there's no mechanical differences between the various ethnicities).
...The phenomena of Osirion's dramatic rise from barbarism is intensely studied by specialist...
'Phenomena' is the plural form of 'phenomenon', so should the sentence read '...The phenomena of Osirion's dramatic rise from barbarism are intensely studied by specialist...'?
P. 116
DM Reference Question:
On the 'arms' shown for Thuvia, I take it that the flower and flask are supposed to respreent the sun-orchid and alchemical process which brews the elixir, but just why is there a silhouette of a person running in the bottom left quarter? (There is no reference to athletics competitions or traditions of running in the country which I can find in the entry...)
Comment:
On page 117, Lamasara is described as Thuvia's 'third city'; I take this to be a reference to its population as compared to that of Thuvia's other cities.
P. 141 (Ustalav)
The placement of features on the country map, such towns and Gallowspire does not seem to correspond with the equivalents on the world map. Furthermore, on the country map, the county name for Sinaria is not actually placed in Sinaria, but adjacent to it in northern Barstoi, and The Furrows are not labelled.
“Ustalav(Ardeal)” wrote:
…The banks of the Vhatsuntide River are crowed with the crumbling estates of abandoned courtiers, while the fertile lands are left fallow.
Should ‘crowed with’ be ‘crowded with’?
‘crumbling estates of abandoned courtiers’ might make a sort of sense if the intention is to convey that, when the court moved from Ardis to Caliphas, for some reason a number of members of the court hierarchy were left behind and have now fallen on hard times because monies they used to earn have now been cut off, but I would have liked some explanation of just why the courtiers in question didn’t up sticks and move to Caliphas with the rest of the court? ‘crumbling estates abandoned by courtiers’ would imply that they did move off to Caliphas, leaving their former residences behind, neglected.
Quibble: Given that the lands are trailed as being ‘fertile’, unless this part of Ustalav has recently been left short of population (by the civil-war, a plague, or a ‘gold-rush’ event sending everyone crazily off somewhere else for example) I’m not sure what is going on here? Even absentee landowners usually have no problem with making cash by leaving a trusted agent behind to rent out land to farmers. And unless a region has been denuded of population, isn’t someone going to give farming a go if the land is there, unless the terms are ruinous?
“Ustalav(Caliphas)” wrote:
…Trade across Lake Encarthan brings substantial wealth to the city’s nobelesse and royal court…
‘Nobelesse’? Might I suggest ‘nobles’ or ‘nobility’ was intended? I have no idea what ‘nobelesse’ is supposed to mean, and my Google search engine suggests that it is either a radio station or a misspelling of ‘noblesse oblige’.
“Ustalav(The Furrows)” wrote:
…In 4689 Barstoi drug Ardeal and Varno into civil war…
‘Drug’ should be ‘dragged’?
“Ustalav(The Furrows)” wrote:
…and haunted by the disillusioned ghosts of wasted lives.
Unless the intention here is to be very poetical, I’m not sure that ‘wasted lives’ can have ‘disillusioned ghosts’. Something along the lines of ‘…and haunted by the disillusioned ghosts of those soldiers whose lives were so futilely wasted.’ might make more sense.
P. 142
“Ustalav(Versex)” wrote:
…Aside from the bustling town of Rozenport…
Error/DM Reference Question:
Help! There is no town of Rozenport marked on either the country map or the world map. Versex does contain the settlements of Thrushmoor, Illmarsh, Hyannis, and Carrion Hill according to the country map. Is one of these the former/current name for Rozenport? (Carrion Hill already gets a separate mention, so it seems likeliest to me that it is one of the others; for what it’s worth, Illmarsh seems the most handily placed for river/sea access if the country map is accurate.)
Query:
Tamrivena, besides being the name of a town, was also the former name of the county of Canterwall before it was ‘refounded’?
“Ustalav(Virlych)” wrote:
…Although the tyrant’s defeat in 3827 freed the country back to its historic rule…
Quibble: This seems to read clumsily to me; might I suggest something like: ‘…Although the tyrant’s defeat in 3827 freed the country to go back to its historic rule…
P. 143
Comment: Although ‘Ghasterhall, the Palace of Travesties’ is mentioned towards the end of the Virlych entry, it is not indicated on the country map, whereas the other two sites mentioned in the same sentence as it ‘the bladed cathedral at Renchurch’ and ‘the Garden of Lead’ have strong evidence as to location (‘Renchurch’ is on the map) or are marked (‘The Garden of Lead’). It is of course possible that the palace is at Casnoriva (marked but nothing associated with it) or simply left unmarked for DMs to place wherever they want.
“Ustalav(Countess Carmilla Caliphvaso)” wrote:
…While no one doubts the cunning noblewoman’s agenda to implant her nephew upon the throne…
Uncertainty: I am unsure if ‘implant’ is appropriate for the use made here. I have heard of ‘supplanting’ in the context of taking a place which is rightfully someone else’s, but I am uncertain if implant is a word regularly used in political contexts too. Doubt could be avoided with: ‘…While no one doubts the cunning noblewoman’s agenda to place her nephew upon the throne…’
“Ustalav(BishopYarsmardin Senir)” wrote:
…the secluded cloister of an order of silent Pharasmin monks…
Query: Is ‘Pharasmin’ the correct form to use for a group of monks who worship Pharasma?
DM Reference Questions:
Is Bishop Yarsmadin Senir actually a count, too, since he is listed in the nobles of Ustalav section? If so, then is it a hereditary title (and he just happens to be a bishop) or does the title go with the position of senior authority at the monastery? If not, then who is the count of Ulcazar?
Jason Nelson
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
Charles Evans 25 wrote:
“Mendev” wrote:
…Even in Kenabres, the ardor of the inquisition has dimmed somewhat, and many hope it is utterly extinguished with the death of the aged prelate- but quietly here and there throughout Mendev the screaming flames still echo the passion of her most fervent zealots...
P. 99
“Mendev(Government)” wrote:
…Looming over all are the overzealous inquisitors- Hulrun of Kenabres is the most influential but he has many sympathizers across Mendev…
‘..the screaming flames still echo the passion of her most fervent zealots…’ Hulrun of Kenabres, if the zealots being referred to are the followers of that particular inquisitor, is indicated as being a man elsewhere in the entry, so ‘…his most fervent zealots…’ would seem to make more sense unless the inquisition itself is being personified as a female?
No, in this case it is the country that is being referred to in the female, as is common in many countries IRL. Mendev = she; the zealots are zealots of Mendev, therefore, the zealots are "her (i.e., Mendev's) most fervent zealots."
Charles Evans 25 wrote:
As a minor quibble I would prefer ‘…and many hope it will be utterly extinguished upon the death of the aged prelate…’ since he is not dead yet.
Quite right. "Is" is sometimes used colloquially in the US in place of "will be" but "will be" would certainly be more correct.
…Even in Kenabres, the ardor of the inquisition has dimmed somewhat, and many hope it is utterly extinguished with the death of the aged prelate- but quietly here and there throughout Mendev the screaming flames still echo the passion of her most fervent zealots...
P. 99
“Mendev(Government)” wrote:
…Looming over all are the overzealous inquisitors- Hulrun of Kenabres is the most influential but he has many sympathizers across Mendev…
‘..the screaming flames still echo the passion of her most fervent zealots…’ Hulrun of Kenabres, if the zealots being referred to are the followers of that particular inquisitor, is indicated as being a man elsewhere in the entry, so ‘…his most fervent zealots…’ would seem to make more sense unless the inquisition itself is being personified as a female?
No, in this case it is the country that is being referred to in the female, as is common in many countries IRL. Mendev = she; the zealots are zealots of Mendev, therefore, the zealots are "her (i.e., Mendev's) most fervent zealots."
As suggestion then: '...the screaming flames still echo the passions of the country's most fervent zealots.'
Given the immediate context leading upto that sentence, of witch burnings and the inquisition, and witch hunters, it didn't even occur to me that the 'her' was supposed to be indicative of the country.
Edit:
Thanks for the response though, Jason. If you ever need a Standard Idiot, to read something through, James Jacobs has my email address... :D
The world map does not agree with the local map of Varisia on Page 145, with regard to the precise placement of towns, etc. (The local map of Varisia, on the other hand, corresponds very closely to that of the area in the Rise of the Runelords Player's Guide.)
However, 'Urglin' in both the Rise of the Runelords Player's Guide and on the local map of Varisia is indicated to be a fortress (by the use of a blacked-in square symbol to denote it) whereas on the world map it is indicated as a city (by the use of a blacked-in circle symbol to denote it). The Pathfinder's Journal in issue #8 of Pathfinder also seems to indicate that Urglin is more of a city than a fortress.
P. 147
Varisia(The Shoanti) wrote:
...and in some cases, as in the sheriff of Sandpoint, Shoanti are becoming part of society on a governmental level...
Quibble: This reads clumsily to me; I would suggest instead something like: '...and in some cases, such as that of the Sheriff of Sandpoint, Shoanti are becoming part of society on a governmental level...'
By the way: To make a brief side-trek on the subject of Player's Guides, you appear to have consistently omitted the apostrophes from their names (for the Player's Guides to both the Runelords arc and the Crimson Throne arc) in the 'product lists' at the back of the Pathfinders.
This is one of the lines with the words squashed up close together in the print version of the Campaign Setting.
“The Worldwound” wrote:
…Foul creatures spew from the madness at the center of the blight, monstrosities from the depths of the Abyss, and almost overnight they became undisputed masters of Sarkoris…
Comment: There is a jarring switch of tenses here, from present back to past; at the very least would it be possible to break it up for an end result like: ‘Foul creatures spew from the madness at the center of the blight, monstrosities from the depths of the Abyss; almost overnight they became the undisputed masters of Sarkoris…’
“The Worldwound” wrote:
…religions called the First Mendevian…
This is another one of the lines with the words squashed up close together in the print version.
“The Worldwound” wrote:
…The malign, almost sentient chaos of the Worldwound was not content to stay within its carefully proscribed borders. The northern crusader city Drezen formerly stood within the borders of Mendev…
Uncertainty: Would this passage flow better if the two sentences were tied together with a ‘however;’ so that the join in the middle ran: ‘…proscribed borders however; the northern crusader city…’
“The Worldwound” wrote:
…craft the Wardstones that, for now, stem the Abyssal tide. Aside from constructing a tenuous hedge to keep the demons from spreading further south, however, little progress…
I am unclear just where the Wardstones are positioned; I had originally thought that they were on the border between Mendev and The Worldwound, which would do more to stop the demons from spreading further east, into the Crusader Theocracy, than south. It would be helpful (if it were technically possible) to have an indication on the ‘world’ map of which of The World Wound’s boundaries are blocked from expansion by Wardstones.
P. 149
“The Worldwound(Drezen)” wrote:
…Those who did not survive were taken from the city and nailed to the Crown of the World…
Quibble: ‘The Crown of the World’ being referred to here is, as far as I understand, a geographical region, not a specific feature. If it were ‘nailed to Varisia’ or even ‘nailed to Absalom’ it would read somewhat strangely. Would it be possible to consider a revision of the phrasing of the sentence?
“The Worldwound(Dyinglight)” wrote:
…The wintry city of Dyinglight stands at the headwaters of the Sarkora river…
Unless minor streams not shown on the world map do some very odd things, Dyinglight does not appear to be anywhere near the headwaters of what I take to be the Sarkora river. (The Sarkora itself is not named on the world map, but I take it to be the river flowing down through Undarin to the confluence with the Sellen near Storasta.)
Whilst on the subject of the world map, Drezen’s name is marked on the map, but the location of the city is not pinpointed.
Hmmm. That seems to be it for the Inner Sea countries for the first read-through (although I dare say I'm going to find myself going back and picking up more, later :D).
DM Reference Query:
The 'jutting cliffs, swirling tors, and jagged channels that once formed the proud island continet kingdom of Azlant' are 'a thousand miles west of the Arch of Aroden' according to Page 155.
Looking at the 'world' map, The Isle of Kortes and Absalom- where Aroden 'raised the Starstone'- are about 1000 miles east of the Arch of Aroden, putting a couple of thousand miles between the site where Aroden raised the Starstone and Azlant.
The summary of the Earthfall event on page 201 reads: 'The Starstone tumbles to Golarion, creating the Inner Sea and kicking off a thousand years of Darkness. Azlant and Thassilon destroyed. Elves depart Golarion.'
Since the Inner Sea is indicated as having been formed by the Starstone it seems likely to me that the place where Aroden 'raised' it is in fact also the place where it crashed into the planet.
Given the distance between the location of the Starstone and of Azlant, I'm having trouble seeing how the Starstone could be physically responsible for the end of Azlant- there wasn't even an Inner Sea in existence then for displaced water to arguably cause tidal waves.
Given the intervening land mass, I'm seeing even less chance for Thassilon to be directly physically devestated.
So what happened?
At present the possibilities I can think of are:
1) Thassilon and Azlant, containing as they did the human cultures of the period most exploitative of magic, were also the areas most vulnerable to devestation by an 'arcane backlash' also accompanying the Earthfall event.
2) A large quantity of LAND BOUND ice was either present at the site of impact and temporarily vapourised (before rapidly turning back to water) raising sea-levels, or for some reason such ice was melted elsewhere. (Sea bound ice is already displacing a good deal of its own volume in water, so melting it doesn't raise sea-levels, but melting ice which was on land but then runs off into the sea does result in a rise.)
Low lying areas of Azlant and Thassilon would both be subject to flooding (especially if Golarion had been experiencing a period of lower sea-levels due to an ice-age event, for example, and these civilizations had partially been built on temporarily exposed areas of continental shelf).
3) A gate to the elemental plane of water was punched open by the event for long enough for sea-levels to be permanently raised by a significant amount before it was finally shut down. (This possibility for unstable planar architecture foreshadows the Worldwound, perhaps.)
...Given the distance between the location of the Starstone and of Azlant, I'm having trouble seeing how the Starstone could be physically responsible for the end of Azlant- there wasn't even an Inner Sea in existence then for displaced water to arguably cause tidal waves.
Given the intervening land mass, I'm seeing even less chance for Thassilon to be directly physically devestated.
So what happened?
Earthfall was more than one meteor. When this event happened, it was more like a massive meteor shower. The Starstone was one of the larger chunks to hit, and it pretty much created the Inner Sea when it struck. Smaller falling stars likely struck along the length of the sea, or here and there throughout the region. Several meteors certainly struck Thassilon, and in particular the elven city of Celwynvian (this is detailed more in an upcoming Pathfinder).
These impacts were nothing compared to the bulk of what struck Azlant, though. Whereas what hit Avistan and Garund was basically isolated chunks of rock... perhaps the initial barrage of falling stars, or the after shocks, what hit Azlant was a HUGE asteroid and a lot of smaller ones. It sunk an entire continent, whereas the ones that hit Avistan only sunk a part of it and created a relatively small sea.
It's certainly possible that the aboleths aimed a line of meteors and asteroids along the path of what is now the Inner Sea, to create a new major waterway to connect the Arcadian Ocean and the Obari Ocean, of course; this would increase the aboleths' ability to get around. It also has some interesting implications about how the underground lakes and seas of the Darklands work...
...The demon queen Lamashtu, then not quite ascended to full divinity, was a favorite choice...
If, during Thassilonian times (or at least when the Scribbler was active, towards the end of the era), Lamashtu was not yet a full deity, it seems to me that she must have gained that status since that period, but I have not yet found a mention of date for this occurance in the Campign Setting. Is there a date given, and if not, when is it? My initial thought is that it might have occured during the early centuries of the Age of Enthronement, matching the gradual rise to ascendancy of the orcs against their dwarven foes (which climaxes in 1551 with the shattering of the dwarven empire of Tar Taargadth). During the Age of Anguish and the Age of Destiny, I would think that Rovagug holds the stage too much, with the Pit of Gormuz unleashing horrors that grab the attention (and I presume worship) of various savage tribes. Once the Tarrasque goes down in -632, some of the Rovagug faithful might be disillusioned, and be prepared to fall away and turn to other faiths...
...The demon queen Lamashtu, then not quite ascended to full divinity, was a favorite choice...
If, during Thassilonian times (or at least when the Scribbler was active, towards the end of the era), Lamashtu was not yet a full deity, it seems to me that she must have gained that status since that period, but I have not yet found a mention of date for this occurance in the Campign Setting. Is there a date given, and if not, when is it? My initial thought is that it might have occured during the early centuries of the Age of Enthronement, matching the gradual rise to ascendancy of the orcs against their dwarven foes (which climaxes in 1551 with the shattering of the dwarven empire of Tar Taargadth). During the Age of Anguish and the Age of Destiny, I would think that Rovagug holds the stage too much, with the Pit of Gormuz unleashing horrors that grab the attention (and I presume worship) of various savage tribes. Once the Tarrasque goes down in -632, some of the Rovagug faithful might be disillusioned, and be prepared to fall away and turn to other faiths...
Lamashtu basically became a full-on deity during the Age of Darkness, I suspect. She doesn't really have much to do with Orcs though; orcs are more about Rovagug than Lamashtu. Her favorite critters are gnolls and goblins, for the most part.
Of coruse, even well before this date she was still fully capable of granting spells to her faithful. Demon lords = gods in Golarion, after all. They're just not at the same power level as the core 20 gods.
Of coruse, even well before this date she was still fully capable of granting spells to her faithful. Demon lords = gods in Golarion, after all. They're just not at the same power level as the core 20 gods.
Is this why they have only 4 domains and the core 20 (and other full gods) have 5?
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