I like the idea of the barbarian class being so awesomely-extreme-to-the-max that it bends the very laws of the universe. :)
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I'd go with no. part of the fun of the barbarian class for me was the use of the D12. even if he still uses the gereataxe, you'd still be taking away 1 of the 2 uses.
and i'm not sure where you're coming from. isn't toughness a one-time feat? or atre you suggesting it gets it every level? because if not, then you're basically suggesting one of the advantages of the class. the higher hit points, on average, then the other classes.
care to explain further?
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Toughness is +3 hp +1 per level. They would get this as a bonus feat at first. That way the class would fall into the full BAB = 1d10 HD.
Okay, maybe i'm slow or something today, but i'm still not getting this. why would this be an improvement, and what do you have against D12s?
(the second question is more along the lines of a joke, but i'm serious about the first one.)
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I think they should stick to the BAB/HD rule and give Barbarians some kind of bonus HPs. Having an example that breaks the rule just opens the door for other classes that don't follow the BAB/HD rule, and then why bother having that rule in the first place?
Giving them the Toughness feat seems like a fair solution as the average on a d12 is 6.5, and a d10 with the +1 per level gives an average of 6.5, the only difference is that a d12 can be a 1 or 12, where as the max/min for the d10+1 is 2 & 11.
Personally, I'm not fond of the break from the standard BAB = HD type. I would be all for the Barbarian being brought back into the "standards" with a D10 and then given the bonus feat of Toughness. I just don't have a strong desire to keep the barbarian as the "abomination" to the HD standardization that Paizo has incorporated for the other classes....
I think they should stick to the BAB/HD rule and give Barbarians some kind of bonus HPs. Having an example that breaks the rule just opens the door for other classes that don't follow the BAB/HD rule, and then why bother having that rule in the first place?
Don't worry -- the barbarian is holding the door closed with his mighty thews. No other classes allowed!!
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I think the obvious solution then would be to create an entire new BAB class just for the barbarian that allows for the D12...and somehow works more D12s in there. that'd be cool.
Yes, this is mostly just snark. I like the D12 and don't want to see it die. next, everyone will be up in arms about the D12 damage weapons and then what? where else are D12s good for?
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Sorry I did mean to mention that I'd add in an allowance for Barbarians being able to take the Toughness feat a second time, but yes that is the basic idea.
I think the obvious solution then would be to create an entire new BAB class just for the barbarian that allows for the D12...and somehow works more D12s in there. that'd be cool.
So what, the Barbarian would get a better BAB than a Fighter? No way in hell!
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Sorry I did mean to mention that I'd add in an allowance for Barbarians being able to take the Toughness feat a second time, but yes that is the basic idea.
I think the obvious solution then would be to create an entire new BAB class just for the barbarian that allows for the D12...and somehow works more D12s in there. that'd be cool.So what, the Barbarian would get a better BAB than a Fighter? No way in hell!
nono. it would just go poor, average, good, good(barbarian).
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Also, this option would actually weaken the barbarian. Using a d12, the barbarian can still take the toughness feat and have even more hp. If you gave it to them at 1st level and made them use a d10, then their hp are the same as a fighter, paladin, or ranger if they take the toughness feat.
Frankly, I don't see any good reason for consolidating the hit dice at all. Sure it looks pretty, but what's the point?
My guess it was to shore up the lower hit dice and give a reason as to why their hit die type was changing.
poor BAB wizard - sorcerer = d6
average BAB rogue - bard = d8
If you have a d4 HD, you're supposed to be weak. And I can see why it might be aesthetically pleasing to link HD to BaB, but what I don't see is why that necessarily makes it a good idea. I mean, it doesn't really matter to me either way, since either way I'll be using the old hit dice, but it just seems like a change made without any real gameplay reason, other than that people like playing stronger characters, and this change has made characters stronger.
BaB says how good of a combatant you are, but HD says what kind of combatant. 1/2 BaB means you shouldn't try, 3/4 means you can do ok if you really work at it, and full means that's your main thing. d4 HD means the same thing as 1/2 BaB, basically: get in the back and stay there. d6 HD means you can hop into combat, stab a few times, and hop out as long as you're careful to not attract too much notice. d8 HD means you can play with the front-liners, but need to be careful not to bite off more than you can chew. d10 HD means you're the one everyone else stands behind as you wade into combat. And finally, d12 HD means you charge into combat, blade swinging wildly over your head.
So, 1/2 BaB and the d4 HD are pretty much exclusive to each other, the 3/4 BaB can be d6 or d8, depending on whether the class stress magic/skills with some combat or combat with some magic/skills, and full BaB can be either d10 (for most combatants) or d12 (for the really really tough mo-fo's). Reducing it to three tiers makes it harder to differentiate between a rogue and a cleric's combat ability just by eyeballing it. Giving them different hit dice is another way of emphasizing where they should be in combat.
Plus... I liked rolling d4s for my sorcerer... it meant my HD was also a caltrop...
What about this:
1st level Barbarian class feature: hardened warrior A barbarian uses the d12 instead of the d10...
This way it acknowledges the exception right in the class.
This is a great way to handle it.