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I'm merely asking people for role-playing advice. If one would consider playing a loyal Chelish* paladin, how should he/she act?
I could consider a Chelish Paladin to be closer to a, uh, "Blood Knight" or "Blackguard" roleplay-wise, serving under the 'good' of Chelish rule. Different morals, I think.
What say you?
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There was actually an old blog post about this. Here's a copy of it that I hope helps.
How Do I Play a Paladin in Service to Cheliax?
Thursday, July 10, 2008Good question! We're hearing this one and others like it on the Pathfinder Society messageboards, so we thought we'd use today's blog to give you a sneak peak at the Chelax section of the Pathfinder Society Player's Guide soon-to-be-released here on paizo.com. All of the base classes will be covered in the final Player's Guide. Below we've included just a few of the classes folks are having a hard time imagining as non-evil Chelish faction members.
Chelish Pathfinders
Since House Thrune rose to prominence, reclaiming the past glories of Cheliax and re-establishing their footholds across the world has been their primary goal. Chelish armies amass in the ruthless homeland, and their agents push far and wide seeking to expand the diabolic empire's influence. Chelish culture is widely popular, and their fashions show up in most nations across Avistan and Garund. House Thrune places a high priority on discovering the relics of the past and controlling the revelation and interpretation of historical finds. The noble houses of Cheliax encourage the populace and even their own scions to join the Pathfinder Society and seek treasures of ancient power to bolster the empire.
Barbarians: Cheliax is built on law and order. The empire runs smoothly with the help of its infernal allies, and they tolerate no disruption to the nation's workings. Barbarism does not thrive among the devil-bowing culture of Cheliax. Still, there are blood pits in Westcrown where men become beasts to the deafening roar of the crowd and the hot spray of an enemy's blood. Cheliax's most fierce battle-raging warriors are cultivated from slaves who earn a place in the military only after brutal escapades in the blood pits. Other conscripts in the army of Cheliax are drawn from captured Shoanti of Varisia who sometimes pledge their loyalty to House Thrune and join the Pathfinder Society in the empire's service.
Druids: Cheliax's colonial holdings of old inspired several orders of wardens dedicated to safeguarding the majesty of the natural world. When House Thrune seized control of the crumbling empire, they bent these earthly wonders to their own infernal uses and even today most of the empire's natural resources are ruthlessly hewn and sent to the new capital at Egorian for whatever sinister purposes House Thrune sees fit. A few of the druidic orders of old persisted, doing their best to stem the burning of the land, and convincing the noble houses to slow their voracious ravaging of the landscape, lest the resources run dry. The Black Wardens survived by dedicating themselves to Asmodeus dogma, claiming they grow the trees to stoke the fires of his dark glory. Other orders like the Sisters of Oak maintain their vigil over the landscape with no official ties to the Church of Asmodeus, but doing so sometimes creates friction between their order and the government of Egorian. Still as the country's natural resources wane, the government of Cheliax cannot afford to eradicate these druids, and are forced to form tenuous agreements with them in order to save their nation's landscape from utter destruction.
Monks: Monastic orders abound in Cheliax, most steeped in martial arts once trained in the smoldering depths of the Nine Hells. The coveted martial arts of devil kind are now practiced by the Chelish in secret sects and monasteries all over the empire. Several of these orders are attached to the Chelish legion, and in particular the martial art of Hamatulatsu, learned from barbed devils, is practiced by monks in military service. Other orders include the Sidaal Thram, an order of glaive wielding martial arts masters who wear long bears braided with barbs and blades, as well as the spiked chain wielding Order of the Razored Shackle, who wrap themselves in the kyton's chains and engage in horrifying self mutilation as part of their path to excellence.
Paladins: Paladins are a rare sight in Cheliax. Before House Thrune rose to power, the shining servants of Iomedae and her slain patron Aroden rode throughout Old Cheliax. Some are still there and do the best they can to serve her glory in a nation much overshadowed in darkness. They see it as their divine duty to bring the empire back to a path of temperance, or at least to balance the evils of their homeland. More than a few paladins of Aroden still believe their god will return someday to bring the nation back into the light. These paladins remain to herald his return, and hold on to the burning idea of Old Cheliax, a sprawling empire whose glory was a beacon in a dark and savage world.
Personally, I think that just by being a paladin who served Cheliax you would automatically fall.
But that's just me.
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Paladins don't have the luxury of following different morals to adapt to various circumstances. They follow the code that their god commands and they are fine with that since they are Lawful.
That said, there are absolutely still paladins in Cheliax. Not only was Iomedae from there originally, but Chaos is just as threatening to LG as to LE. I think that there are even still hellkight paladins in the setting. Paladins fight demons just as well if not better than anyone else, so as long as they are handled they should be reasonably ok with working within Cheliax, perhaps with more frequent atonements than other paladins. When they occasionally stand up to an obviously unjust law, but then they would accept the consequences of their actions.
The Order of the Pike specializes in hunting monsters and the Order of the Godclaw contains worshipers of Abadar, Irori and Iomedae all of whom have paladins. And I imagine that the high ranking members of those orders are good at managing the few paladins that they command, pointing them in the direction of demonic or monstrous foes and leaving the more morally ambiguous work to others out of sight of the paladin. A Chelaxian paladin might not last long as a paladin before succumbing to terminal alignment conflict between Law and Good, but there are plenty of idealistic young up-and-comers even in Cheliax and I imagine that Devils would relish the idea of using up paladins and replacing them.
Remember that there are two components to alignment and Paladins and Cheliax match half their alignment.
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Holy necromancy (no such thing in Golarion), Red Raven!
Being a Chelish paladin is actually a very simple thing, backstory wise. Like most of the citizens, just pay lip service to diabolism. Other religions are grudgingly accepted despite the state church being diabolical, afterall.
As for playing a paladin in the Cheliax faction - bad idea. Zarta's schemes hardly contribute to the advancement of goodness and justice, even though most of them aren't outright evil. I guess you could make a really stupid paladin, but that's hardly grounds for being accepted to a faction of schemers and collectors of infernal lore.
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Holy necromancy (no such thing in Golarion), Red Raven!
Being a Chelish paladin is actually a very simple thing, backstory wise. Like most of the citizens, just pay lip service to diabolism. Other religions are grudgingly accepted despite the state church being diabolical, afterall.
I let paladins get away with huge amounts of crap in my games compared to others and even I would not let a paladin pay lip service to an evil religion. Iomedae is still respected in Cheliax since she is both Lawful and from Cheliax so I think that a paladin can ignore the church of Asmodeus and openly worship Iomedae and spin it in a way that is socially acceptable.
Again, from the viewpoint of a typical Chelaxian functionary, a paladin would be obstreperous, often insubordinate and prissy, but they could exist in the hierarchy on the back of their Lawfulness and the fact that they are great at stomping demon face.
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I'm sure somebody has the book handy, but I thought Empire of Devils explicitly stated that you have to give service to the state church, which is the church of Asmodeus. They don't care whether you are devout or not, it is the affirmation of their Master's dominance over other religions that's important. Lip service is just that, lip service. Falling would mean you going against your code and that's not involved here.
Venture-Captain, Germany—Hamburg
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Well, being lawful means the paladin would have to accept that the nation's law involves dealing with devils.
Being good, and having to stay true to the paladin code, the paladin wouldn't deal with devils himself (unless ordered to do so). And if he actually has to deal with a devil, he would ensure the devil's service is only used for the cause of Good, and make sure this dealing doesn't have to last too long.
But most of the time, the paladin would focus on battling demons, often traveling to other lands to do so.
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More on topic...
Being a paladin is like walking a tight rope over the conflicting values of law and good. Being a chelaxian paladin is like walking a tightrope in an earthquake: the damn thing is TRYING to shake you off.
On one hand its a good explanation for what your paladin is doing outside of cheliax: you can't honorably serve anyone there so you're going to honorably serve your country somewhere else.
On the other hand, even with the new faction missions you may have to have to occasionally say "Oh hell to the no" or save some funds for an atonement.
A chelaxian paladin is probably STRICT. More lawful than good when they can help it. Everything by the book, everything in its proper place. Sure, the law is far from perfect but without it sure beats turning into galt. Think of the big picture.: breaking a few rules may seem like a good idea now but what would happen if everyone did it? The town would burn down, trade would break down, and cats would be singing with dogs.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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In the Grand Lodge commissary, you may have noticed a fellow named Gennadi. He fits in easily with conversations, and he's been quick to jump to another's aid when an injured pathfinder makes it back through the front door, or when rougher venture captains mock newer members for not measuring up to impossible standards. He's the kind of man you'd be glad to have at your side in a tavern, or at your back in a fight.
He's a paladin (of Torag, you'd find out with a little bit of investigation) yet you've also seen couriers come for him, with messages from a particular Chelaxian Paracountess. He's always grim after reading those messages. If you ask him, he'd have this to say:
"My children, Adrian and Tikkie, were taken from our apartments in Kaer Maga, almost three years ago now. My wife and I went after the kidnappers, of course, but they were too well-organized. My wife ... didn't make it. Eventually, they were traded, and re-sold, and came into the possession of some lesser nobles of Cheliax's House Thrune. And this ... woman ... promises me to keep them clothed, fed, and safe, in return for favors.
"Some of them I flatly refuse, but she's usually clever enough to send me on errands that prove innocuous enough. And I always keep my eyes and ears open whenever I'm around Cheliax. Until I have some decent intelligence about where they are and who's holding them ... I bide my time, and do her bidding, and endure her mocking promises of the carnal opportunities I'm missing. As if I would betray the memory of my beloved!
"But one day, I'll have my children safely home. And then," he adds, looking at the greatsword resting close at hand, "we'll see what kind of bite I have. And we'll see who's the 'flesh morsel'."
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I actually think it would be easier to play a Paladin from Cheliax.. if you were geographically separated from Cheliax (ie you never actually went there).
As that Nation was the centre of worship of Aroden before he died, then its likely that at points in it's history it produced a fair number of Paladins.
Also keep in mind that the only faiths banned in Cheliax is worship of the rival Devil Gods (ie Mephistopheles etc). Cheliax allows worship of the non Asmodeus gods.
Now if we are talking about being in the Cheliax faction.. well things just got easier. There are now no nasty faction missions where you would have to plant demonic evidence or the like to worry about. Now you would simply have to ride with the overarching faction requirements of Season 5 for Cheliax (Ill let you read those yourself)
Obviously displaying a good temperament you will never really rise far in the ranks in Cheliax (and its unlikely they are going to trust a Society member for prominent roles either) but the martial skill of the Paladin itself is quite impressive so that's where you power is going to come from.
Also you might just forgo all the extra tasks and whatnot Zarta asks of you, but that to me would come back to why you are picking Cheliax in the first place.
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Being a paladin from Cheliax is not an excuse to be an evil paladin. There are no paladins of Asmodeus.
As some posters here have indicated, there are superb roleplaying opportunities possible with the concept, but paladins are still lawful and good. Playing a blackguard but having paladin listed on your sheet is... something I wouldn't tolerate. Go for something better.
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I have a character who I've essentially modelled after the "lawful stupid" paladin cliché. He's from Cheliax and it's his faction as well. He's not a paladin though - he is LN and has 1 level cavalier and 7 levels of inquisitor of Erastil.
From a roleplaying angle his focus is on the farming, family and community aspects of Erastil. And then he's completely brainwashed by the chelaxian authorities. He believes himself to fight for the greater good and what's right, but too often he's simply just following orders or commiting acts that are not so good, but that he thinks serves the community (aka his current adventuring group, the society and/or Cheliax).
He often wades into battle wielding his greatsword and shouting things like "For family and order!", "For the community!" or "For unity!"
It's an added bonus that he's an orphaned half-orc that pretty much sees himself as a human and believes that it's your actions and not your race, that define who you are. Generally he's always trying to do what's "right" but sometimes failing quite miserably.