Contributor
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I will do my best over the next few days to generate a list of changes from the Alpha 3 release to the Beta. This will likely need to be a collaborative effort, so I will appreciate any help (and corrections) in the work.
For those of you who don't have to wait until after work to get started on listing changes, feel free to post what you've come up with. I will mine this thread for updates and come up with a consolidated list.
Since the playtest is also by chapter, you could make this project much more manageable by listing the changes from SRD->Beta and Alpha->Beta only for the chapter currently being discussed.
That way, the relevant data is available, but you have time to complete the changelog.
Sorcerer's with the Arcane Bloodline (P.43 clarification):
Your levels stack with any wizard levels you posses when determining the powers of your familiar or bonded object.
Arcane Bond (P49):
Powers added to the bonded object are no longer at half cost.
Acquiring Skill (p52 wording change)
Not sure how important this is but I include it because it IS different.
At first level, your character gains a number of skill
points dependent upon your class plus your Intelligence
modifier. At every level after that, you gain additional skill
points. These skill points can be spent to purchase ranks
of any skill, but you can only acquire a number of ranks in
a specific skill equal to your total Hit Dice.
The difference between Beta and Alpha is the word points versus ranks. I have no idea if it means anything.
The difference between Beta and Alpha is the word points versus ranks. I have no idea if it means anything.
Some people commented before that it was a bit confusing to "spend skill ranks" to "buy skill ranks", especially since they mention "skill points" in other places.
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Does this imply your HD is your max ranks?
That seems to be what it means. Basically, all skills, class or cross-class, can be bought for one skill point per rank, but the max ranks in any skill is your HD, rather than your HD +3 as it was in 3.5. You get a +3 bonus on checks with skills you've put ranks in that are also class skills, though.
Edit: The sample NPC on page 339 seems to be using some earlier skill system. I take it this is a bug?
characters, you decide to make this forest guardian a human
ranger 4/rogue 2. You want him to be skilled at fighting with
ranged weapons, but you also want him to be competent with
a rapier. Taking this into account, you use the heroic ability
scores for a ranged NPC found on Table 14–6. Since he is
a human and 6th level, you put all of his bonuses into his
Dexterity, raising it up to 18. Moving on to skills, you see that
your forest guardian has a total of six skills for being a ranger,
and eight for being a rogue. Starting with the ranger, you add
one for being human and one for his Intelligence modifier
for a total of eight skills at six ranks each. After selecting these
eight skills, you move on to the rogue skills. The difference
between the ranger and the rogue is two, meaning that you
can select two more skills, with two ranks in each. After
selecting his skills, you move on to his feats. Starting with his
Thank you Hogarth for clearing that up...
Favored Class (p11)
Each race has two favored classes, representing its natural
affinity for a specific set of skills and abilities. Whenever you
take a level in your race’s favored class, you receive either +1 hit
point or +1 skill point. Humans and half-elves frequently get
this bonus, unless they multiclass. You do not gain this bonus
for taking levels in a prestige class, regardless of its theme.
The changes: 2 favored classes and the choice of either +1 hp or +1 skill point.
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There's talk of bonus spells for clerics based on domains (pgs. 22 ("Each domain grants a number of domain powers dependent upon the level of the cleric, as well as a number of bonus spells.") and 176 ("In addition, each domain grants a number of bonus spells.")), but I'm not seeing that list/information. Granted domain powers remain the same as far as I can see between Alpha and Beta, so unless some of those domain powers are now considered bonus spells either something is missing from the book or the wording seems misleading.
Metamagic Feats
Sorcerers and Bards
Because the sorcerer or bard has not prepared the spell in a metamagic form in advance, he must apply the metamagic feat on the spot.
Therefore, such a character must also take more time to
cast a metamagic spell (one enhanced by a metamagic feat)
than he does to cast a regular spell. If the spell’s normal
casting time is a standard action, casting a metamagic version
is a full-round action for a sorcerer or bard. This isn’t
the same as a 1-round casting time. The only exception is
for spells modified by the Quicken Spell metamagic feat,
which can be cast as normal using the feat.
That isn't how it worked before, aye?
Feats (I didn't read them all ... only a key few I'm interested in):
Backswing (Combat)
You are skilled at using your return swing to deal additional
damage your foes.
Prerequisites: Overhand Chop, base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: When making a full-attack action with a twohanded
melee weapon, add double your Strength bonus to
the damage roll of your first attack. If your base attack bonus
is +11 or higher, add triple your Strength bonus to the
damage roll of your first attack.
Normal: You normally add 1-1/2 times your Strength
modifier to damage rolls with a two-handed weapon.
(Used to be an additional attack)
Devastating Blow (Combat)
Your strike hits with devastating accuracy.
Prerequisites: Backswing, Overhand Chop, base attack
bonus +11.
Benefit: As a standard action, make a single melee attack
with a two-handed melee weapon at a –5 penalty. If you
hit, you score a critical hit. Special weapon abilities that
activate only on a critical hit, such as vorpal and f laming
burst, do not activate.
Dodge (Combat)
You have mastered a defensive stance that allows to you
easily react to your opponents.
Prerequisite: Dex 13
Benefit: As a swift action, you gain a +1 dodge bonus to
your AC until your next turn. If you have 10 or more ranks
in Acrobatics, the dodge bonus increases to +2.
Double Slice (Combat)
When wielding two weapons, your off-hand weapon can be
used with great effectiveness
Prerequisite: Dex 15, Two-Weapon Fighting.
Benefit: Add your Strength bonus to damage rolls made
with your off-hand weapon.
Normal: You normally add half your Strength modifier
to damage rolls made with your off-hand weapon.
(Used to grant a +2 competence bonus with the light weapon)
Shield Master (Combat)
Your mastery of the shield allows you to fight with it without
hindrance.
Prerequisites: Improved Shield Bash, Shield Proficiency,
Shield Slam, Two-Weapon Fighting, base attack bonus +11.
Benefit: You do not suffer any penalties on attack
rolls made with a shield while you are wielding another
weapon. Add your shield’s shield bonus to attacks and
damage rolls made with the shield as if it was an enhancement
bonus.
(Used to allow the magic bonus to be added)
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Thank you Hogarth for clearing that up...
Favored Class (p11)
Each race has two favored classes, representing its natural
affinity for a specific set of skills and abilities. Whenever you
take a level in your race’s favored class, you receive either +1 hit
point or +1 skill point. Humans and half-elves frequently get
this bonus, unless they multiclass. You do not gain this bonus
for taking levels in a prestige class, regardless of its theme.The changes: 2 favored classes and the choice of either +1 hp or +1 skill point.
the only change is the "or +1" and the explanation that you win nothing for Prestige clases.
the 2 favored classes exist since beta (with the exceptions for humans and half-elves than can choose any they please) but they must choose which one at 1st level
Thank you Hogarth for clearing that up...
Favored Class (p11)
Each race has two favored classes, representing its natural
affinity for a specific set of skills and abilities. Whenever you
take a level in your race’s favored class, you receive either +1 hit
point or +1 skill point. Humans and half-elves frequently get
this bonus, unless they multiclass. You do not gain this bonus
for taking levels in a prestige class, regardless of its theme.The changes: 2 favored classes and the choice of either +1 hp or +1 skill point.
the only change is the "or +1" and the explanation that you win nothing for Prestige clases.
the 2 favored classes exist since beta (with the exceptions for humans and half-elves than can choose any they please) but they must choose which one at 1st level
Hmm that's a poor choice of wording on their part. I thought it was odd when I read it and I should have gone back and read the races specifically for clarification. What it says is every race has 2 favored classes... what it means is most races choose between two classes for a favored class... very different
Thank you Montalve for pointing out my mispprehension. : )
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Hmm that's a poor choice of wording on their part. I thought it was odd when I read it and I should have gone back and read the races specifically for clarification. What it says is every race has 2 favored classes... what it means is most races choose between two classes for a favored class... very different
Thank you Montalve for pointing out my mispprehension. : )
no problem at all, thank you for let me know of the +1 skill, i just jumped that part without reading it... my character really needs +1 skill instead of +1 hp... urgently!
but yeah as ypou say it sounds a bit odd.
Improved Shield Bash is back (it was on the redacted list in the Alpha) and that feat chain does not requite 2 weapon fighting as Deft Shield did.
Hmm that's a poor choice of wording on their part. I thought it was odd when I read it and I should have gone back and read the races specifically for clarification. What it says is every race has 2 favored classes... what it means is most races choose between two classes for a favored class... very different
Thank you Montalve for pointing out my mispprehension. : )
no problem at all, thank you for let me know of the +1 skill, i just jumped that part without reading it... my character really needs +1 skill instead of +1 hp... urgently!
but yeah as ypou say it sounds a bit odd.
Apologies for not knowing if this has been covered before, but in 3.5 the classes got a times 4 multiplier at 1st level for skill points. I realize that with consolidated skills that multiplier was too generous, and that the favored class bonus might be designed to compensate for this.
Is this the case?
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Hmm that's a poor choice of wording on their part. I thought it was odd when I read it and I should have gone back and read the races specifically for clarification. What it says is every race has 2 favored classes... what it means is most races choose between two classes for a favored class... very different
Thank you Montalve for pointing out my mispprehension. : )
no problem at all, thank you for let me know of the +1 skill, i just jumped that part without reading it... my character really needs +1 skill instead of +1 hp... urgently!
but yeah as ypou say it sounds a bit odd.
Apologies for not knowing if this has been covered before, but in 3.5 the classes got a times 4 multiplier at 1st level for skill points. I realize that with consolidated skills that multiplier was too generous, and that the favored class bonus might be designed to compensate for this.
Is this the case?
All class skills get a +3 bonus. That's what offsets the removal of the 1st level multiplier. A 20th level character can have up to 20 ranks in a class skill, +3 for it being a class skill. The same 20th level character can have up to 20 ranks in a non-class skill (a cross-class skill, in other words), but does not get the +3 bonus.
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Feat
Skill Focus (researched due to having adaptability in my character) changes a bit
you get the usual +3 when taking it, but if you have 10 ranks in the skill you are Focusing you get +6 (i suppose the same happens when you reack rank 10 [mostly at level 10], right?)
Similarly, the +2/+2 skill feats (Acrobatic, Alertness, etc.) have their bonuses doubled if you have 10 ranks in the associated skill.
Alertness now boosts Perception and Sense Motive rather than Perception and Appraise.
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Acrobatics (Jump) checks now specify bonuses for speeds greater than 30, as was the case in 3.5. Monks will be able to attain utterly insane jump ratings, particularly with the changes to Skill Focus and Acrobatic (skill enhancer) feats.
Yes, and that's a good thing! (Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, anybody?)
The DCs for a bard's abilities are no longer based on Perform checks.
Anyone else notice it is mostly Alpha + SRD? I haven't found a whole lot of changed things. This is good, mind you, as my players were happy with Alpha.
The only changes I've found were the mentioned ones from the Web Preview.
It's all good. Happy gamer.
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Apologies for not knowing if this has been covered before, but in 3.5 the classes got a times 4 multiplier at 1st level for skill points. I realize that with consolidated skills that multiplier was too generous, and that the favored class bonus might be designed to compensate for this.
Is this the case?
no
skills in 3.5 were initially x4 just in the 1st level that was because the maximum rank in skills was level +3now since the max rank is the level or HD of the character you don't need the ton of skill points
i think this +1 skill point is to throw a boen to fighters, sorcerers, clerics and wizards taht have just 2 + int modifier skill points per level... i know my Cleric needs it.
my bard would benefit... but she being and elf se REQUIERES with URGENCY the +1 HP
Feat
Skill Focus (researched due to having adaptability in my character) changes a bit
you get the usual +3 when taking it, but if you have 10 ranks in the skill you are Focusing you get +6 (i suppose the same happens when you reack rank 10 [mostly at level 10], right?)Similarly, the +2/+2 skill feats (Acrobatic, Alertness, etc.) have their bonuses doubled if you have 10 ranks in the associated skill.
Alertness now boosts Perception and Sense Motive rather than Perception and Appraise.
i LOVE that CHANGE! next feat at 3rd level is either Persuasive or Alertness
It is no longer possible to taste germs in your food via Perception (taste). Long live the Beta rules! :-)
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Acrobatics (Jump) checks now specify bonuses for speeds greater than 30, as was the case in 3.5. Monks will be able to attain utterly insane jump ratings, particularly with the changes to Skill Focus and Acrobatic (skill enhancer) feats.
I'm not sure this is the case. The benefit specifically says "base speeds" and notes that the bonus is a racial bonus - this suggests to me that spell effects and class benefits don't count.
Far Shot works differently than in the SRD (halves range penalties rather than increasing range increments).
Gorgon's Fist and Scorpion Style now allow a save (boo).
There are several new Improved Familiar options (dire rat, stirge, grig) and the shocker lizard has been removed as an option.
Mobility now works the same as in 3.5.
Thanks all for the clarification on skill points. We are just starting our playtest and I want to weed out the conflicting 3.5 stuff.
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Careful Targeting and Exact Targeting have been removed. Pinpoint Targeting still exists, but has the following prerequisites: Dex 19, Improved Precise Shot, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, base attack bonus +16. Pinpoint Targeting is a standard action, not a full round action, but it no longer allows you to ignore concealment.
Weapon Finesse no longer requires you to have +1 BAB.
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Two Weapon Rend no longer requires activation - you get the bonus damage automatically, on any turn in which you hit with both weapons.
Double Slice is no longer a +2 attack bonus (the feat summary list has it wrong), but instead allows you to use your full Strength bonus with your off-hand weapon. Note that this change, combined with changes to Power Attack we saw in the Alpha, means that Power Attack has become a viable option of two-weapon users at last.
Pazio needs to step up and create a revision history with all changes.
Seems like a good idea. As much as I love this easter-egg hunt, 400+ pages is rather daunting when it's mostly rules you know already.
Of course, my plan is to just play the rules and reference the new things as they arise. But Paizo must maintain such a list internally, and if they don't, they should. We've got a whole year of debugging to look forward to, it would be fair to the customers who bought a hardcopy if it was easy for them to track the changes.
Metamagic Feats
Sorcerers and BardsBecause the sorcerer or bard has not prepared the spell in a metamagic form in advance, he must apply the metamagic feat on the spot.
Therefore, such a character must also take more time to
cast a metamagic spell (one enhanced by a metamagic feat)
than he does to cast a regular spell. If the spell’s normal
casting time is a standard action, casting a metamagic version
is a full-round action for a sorcerer or bard. This isn’t
the same as a 1-round casting time. The only exception is
for spells modified by the Quicken Spell metamagic feat,
which can be cast as normal using the feat.That isn't how it worked before, aye?
No, spontaneous casters have not previously been able to benefit from the Quicken Spell feat. The Alpha didn't touch on it, but if you read the PHB section on this you won't find the bolded sentence.
Pazio needs to step up and create a revison history with all changes.
What's that sound? Sounds like million Paizonians screaming at once.
The Barbarian's "Mighty Rage" ability now costs 3 points to start and maintain. (In Alpha 3 it was 4 points to start/maintain.)
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You can draw weapons faster than most.
Prequisite: Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You can draw a weapon as a free action instead of a move action. You can draw a concealed weapon (see the Sleight of Hand skill) as a move action. A character who has selected this feat may throw weapons at his full normal rate of attacks (much like a character with a bow).
Alchemical items, potions, scrolls, and wands cannot be drawn quickly with this feat.
So much for rogues spamming alchemist's fire.
Arcane Strike Feat
Added progressively better bonus based on caster level.
A lot of feats that were general feats are now combat feats.
Feats Added:
- Extra Ki
- Extra Lay On Hands
- Extra Rage
- Improved Shield Bash
Feats Removed:
- Deft Shield
- Exact Targeting