The Weapon of My Family is Scrap


Combat & Magic


No one can begin a character, not at level 1, anyway, with an important weapon (given to them by their knightly order, bequeathed to them by their dying father, originally stolen from an evil duke, etc.) and keep it for long. Not and have it actually do anything worthwhile.

First level characters rarely begin with enough gold to afford a masterwork weapon (and rarely a masterwork set of armor, for that matter). Thus, as soon as they are able to, characters (at least, the ones that use weapons) chuck their nonmasterwork weapons for a masterwork one. Not because they need it to be masterwork for the sake of it being masterwork, but because they need to be able to have magic enhancements put on it.

What I recommend is this: Create a process, an alchemical one, a magical one, a weaponcrafting one, I don’t care which, that allows you to imbue a weapon (or a shield, or a suit of armor, for that matter) with the ability to be magically enhanced, as assuredly as if it were a masterwork weapon. This process would cost the same as having originally created the weapon masterwork (or more, if you wish), but it would be permanent. The weapon would only function as a normal weapon of its type (no masterwork quality to fall back on if you’re in an antimagic field).

This change would prevent grief like this from happening:

Player: So is this the point in the campaign where I basically need a magic weapon in order to function?
DM: Yep.
Player’s Character: Ah, Kozara, treasured dagger of my ancestors, you have served me well these years…. Um, where’s the nearest pawnshop? Maybe if I find a fork and a spoon, I can sell them as a set.

RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32

In my CotCT PbP, I've done way with the masterwork requirement for enhancements. For this reason, actually.

Scarab Sages

To solve this problem, I basically houseruled a variation of the weapons of legacy rules. this way, my players can start with a family heirloom or other item they feel is important to their character and as they advance the item gets improved so that it can still feel useful and not like a lump of iron that's burdoning them down. I basically just make up abilities that suit what the character is doing or how he's acting, or just add an ability score improvement once every couple of levels. because they're not expecting it, they're usually quite surprised in game when the effect just activates the first time. And they have absolutely no control over what they get or when they get it. in fact, if they bother me about it, i'm less likely to give them a useful ability and more likely to make it possessed.

I usuaslly leave them as masterwork, since if it's an heirloom, then it's probably well made to beging with.

just my two cents.

Dark Archive

It starts out in need of some work. When the player gets enough money, he can acid-wash the verdigris off of it and discovers that it's a Masterwork weapon! Woot. As levels go on, he remembers some family legends about it's magical powers, and just assumes that they are bupkiss, but finds out that he can go to a wizard who will re-awaken the magical properties that have long lain dormant.

Alternately, perhaps the family heirloom is picky, and refuses to display it's true powers until it's holder has proven herself, both by gaining levels and performing heroic deeds, and also with certain rituals (that, oh so conveniently cost about as much and take about as long as it would to magically enhance the weapon!).

With an appropriate feat, taken at first level, the heirloom weapon might even be able to be enhanced at half cost, by the heir, with no wizard required, as the weapon recognizes the heir's worthiness and provides the appropriate levels of power, perhaps requiring that the heir donate money and / or time to serving family interests, or constructing a nice memorial for it's last holder, their great-grandparent so-and-so.

Typically such a weapon would have a preset series of powers that are unlocked as levels (and cash spent) accrue, but it's also possible to go the 'moonblade route' and have the magic of the weapon be more flexible, so that an heir who is finding the family lands threatened by an invasion of fiends to take the family blade, rumored to have burst into flames in the hands of his grandmother, and instead channel it to become a Bane (evil outsider) weapon or something (once 'set' it wouldn't be able to change, except when a new heir take it up and rebuilds it as their career progresses).

Liberty's Edge

I remember raising this issue with Amiri, when her backstory came out. James' response was more or less, "that's not what the pregens are for," which didn't satisfy me much (no matter that it was true, as far as it goes). I too would like to see this be an option.


That is not a thing for basic rule set, but for player and DM to decide... DM can override even more important rules, starting equipment is just a flavour thing.

Ever started wearing rags and sitting in a prison cell?

Dark Archive

Zmar wrote:
Ever started wearing rags and sitting in a prison cell?

Yeah, but I'd been drinking a lot that weekend.

Oh. You mean in game?

Nevermind.


The Samurai class starts play with an Ancestral Daisho (katana and wakizashi), to which he can add enhancements by sacrificing the appropriate amount of treasure at his temple. The Book of Exalted Deeds has an Ancestral Weapon feat that works just like this. I think it would be appropriate for these enhancements to only function in the hands of the rightful owner — just like bonded objects do in Pathfinder already.

Liberty's Edge

Why not simply award the heirloom a few levels later. Having sons I am not sure just because they say they are going to do this or that, I am going to give them family heirlooms. I might hang back and see how dedicated they are.

Of course if the parents (or previous weapon holder) is dead, it can be awarded by a NPC whi is acting is a probate lawyer. Or perhaps it is found oafter a mini quest (so that is what happened to Uncle Hershel!). It could also be given by a trusted family friend (give this sword to whichever of my sons shows the most potential to prove his honor!).

There is no reason that your first weapon need be the one you keep forever.


I'm with Set on this one. His explanations are perfectly viable, and serve to imply some continuity in gear, instead of constant "swapping out." Did Arthur sell Excalibur because a keen version was on sale down the street?


I have used this theme numerous times in a variety of campaigns, and in almost every case, I have found the idea of a family heirloom works best when it begins broken or damaged. Not only does it provide excellent character motivation to begin adventuring, but it can also be used as a plot hook to introduce interesting and unexpected side-quests into an otherwise predictable campaign.

Take a look at Rich Burlew's Order of the Stick for a good example of what I mean. Roy's need for Starmetal to reforge his family's sword provided numerous plot twists (and jokes!) during the early years of the comic.

Alternatively, I can see some situations where the broken/damaged sword idea can be stale. In these cases, I would suggest using the Ancestral Relic feat from the Book of Exalted Deeds. It essentially allows you to sacrifice objects to increase the magical qualities of an item, but these qualities only work when you wield the item.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Shisumo wrote:
I remember raising this issue with Amiri, when her backstory came out. James' response was more or less, "that's not what the pregens are for," which didn't satisfy me much (no matter that it was true, as far as it goes). I too would like to see this be an option.

But she knows Ezren, so he can always enchant the sword for her. :)

Liberty's Edge

Not unless you're either a) playing her from something other than 1st level or b) giving her a masterwork sword when she can't afford one...

Scarab Sages RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Personally I don't see a problem with everyone starting with either a MW Weapon or Armour.

Forgotten Realms had the "Region System", whereby you picked a region and based off that region you could choose specific Regional Feats (at 1st level only as a normal Feat choice) and as part of that region choice you got to choose an equipment package as well, which could consist of anything from Spell Scrolls to Potions to MW Weapons or Armour.

Using this system, I started play with a Shou Expatriate (Region) Ninja. She recieved a MW Kukri as part of her package and she had a Feat (Mercantile Background, it was explained quite well in her backstory don't worry) which gave her +300gp at character creation, plus discounts on both selling and buying items. So I spent the extra 300 on another MW Kukri. So I had a 1st level Character begin play with 2x MW Kukri at 1st Level, all within the rules for Forgotten Realms.


Possible solutions:

1. start at 2nd level.
2. houserule that you can take ancestral relic at 1st level and gain a masterwork item, additional benefits as usual at 3rd level.
3. Play a samurai.
4. Play a kensai prestige class.
5. Play a wizard or sorcerer with arcane bond.
6. Play a paladin with divine bond. Quest for the item until 2nd level.

Sovereign Court

Kirth Gersen wrote:
I'm with Set on this one. His explanations are perfectly viable, and serve to imply some continuity in gear, instead of constant "swapping out." Did Arthur sell Excalibur because a keen version was on sale down the street?

Poor example.

How many people did he fight with that Sword he pulled out of the stone? Then some water-witch lobs him a new magic sword and the Sword of Kingship gets hung over the fireplace in Tintagel...


How about having multiple ancestral weapons that can arrive at different phases of the game? Perhaps Father's rapier needs to go back so little brother can have a weapon but Great-Uncle Freidrich had a really nice greatsword a dragon stole years ago.

Failing that I have always liked the unlocking of unknown powers bit with weaponry. I never did like the swap game.


Simple solution: Pay 300 gp to a master swordsmith to have the sword "pimped up", so it is ready for enchantment. You can't really make a inferior weapon into a masterwork weapon, but since you're about to enchant it anyway, it doesn't really matter.

Also, the handfull of coins are what a first level commoner got in cash and equipment during his training. The gm is free to have the characters family suply him with additional stuff, if the family has it.

Don't let any rulebook interfere with your storytelling (if you are the gm).

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Goodman games campaign setting had a 'masterwork heirloom to start' feat.

I dunno, if the character can't get daddy's sword reforged as masterwork, thinking Narsil/Anduril, it still has family importance. Give it back to the family.

By the same token, would you hold back on the bad guys sundering the family blade? The greenhilt blade, for example, was taken down by a shatter spell. If I have a player who wants to keep their daddy's sword, but wants to say, tote an adamantine blade, then for the cost of an adamantine blade someone's going to have an alchemical accident, ala Captain America's shield


I see no reason why this couldnt be worked into the character's back ground. To balance it as a DM I would just throw in a minor problem for the character.

So you have your family heirloom MW Sword. Well Lets say there is a rival family (Montegues & Capulets). They will recognize the sword due to the family crest on its hilt and be all sorts of mean to the character. It could be simple things like charging more at the local equipment shop or refusing to rent rooms to the character at the inn they own. Maybe even a picked fight or two.

I actually dont like the idea of getting a family heirloom enchanted that seems kind of disrespectfull to one's anscesters and family(if that makes sense). "This heirloom isnt good enough Im going to go get it upgrade, I cant believe dad left me this peice of junk. Characters are bound to find magic items as they adventure. As a DM why not have them find one of their own items to be magic. They had it this whole time and never knew that all they had to do was visit their fathers grave on the night of the full moon after their 18th brithday to awaken its magic and claim it as their own.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

Kalyth wrote:
I see no reason why this couldnt be worked into the character's back ground. To balance it as a DM I would just throw in a minor problem for the character.

That makes sense. Or, if you don't mind a little metagame abstraction, you could also just count extra starting wealth against coinage earned in the character's first adventure.


Tectorman wrote:

No one can begin a character, not at level 1, anyway, with an important weapon (given to them by their knightly order, bequeathed to them by their dying father, originally stolen from an evil duke, etc.) and keep it for long. Not and have it actually do anything worthwhile.

First level characters rarely begin with enough gold to afford a masterwork weapon (and rarely a masterwork set of armor, for that matter). Thus, as soon as they are able to, characters (at least, the ones that use weapons) chuck their nonmasterwork weapons for a masterwork one. Not because they need it to be masterwork for the sake of it being masterwork, but because they need to be able to have magic enhancements put on it.

What I recommend is this: Create a process, an alchemical one, a magical one, a weaponcrafting one, I don’t care which, that allows you to imbue a weapon (or a shield, or a suit of armor, for that matter) with the ability to be magically enhanced, as assuredly as if it were a masterwork weapon. This process would cost the same as having originally created the weapon masterwork (or more, if you wish), but it would be permanent. The weapon would only function as a normal weapon of its type (no masterwork quality to fall back on if you’re in an antimagic field).

This change would prevent grief like this from happening:

Player: So is this the point in the campaign where I basically need a magic weapon in order to function?
DM: Yep.
Player’s Character: Ah, Kozara, treasured dagger of my ancestors, you have served me well these years…. Um, where’s the nearest pawnshop? Maybe if I find a fork and a spoon, I can sell them as a set.

Using the Forgotten Realms Campaign book as a bench mark, all characters get to choose a masterwork item, either weapon or armour at 1st level. That way the family heirloom can be enchanted and be kept with the character till the end of his days.

Unfortunately if you find a special power sword\weapon\armour etc you can't transfer the power to your trusty family weapon. There was an old 2nd edition spell that allowed a player to transfer powers so we came up with our own version.
In our version we compared the new weapon (e'g +3 flame blade ) to the family weapon( +1 Longsword ) and either just upgrade the family heirloom to the +3 flameblade but usually he'd lose a +1 off the flameblade and end up with a +2 flameblade at the end of it. The + loss is the 'cost' of tranfering the ability.
This may also cost to do the ritual( depending how powerful the change was.
The most important note is that if the heirloom was a +1 Ghost touch ( value +2 (total 8,000gp )added with a +3 flameblade to become a +3 ghosttouch flaming would be a +5 weapon (50,000gp) then I would require a ritual of 5000gp and the sword would drop to a +2 Flaming ghost touch sword.

Dark Archive

ProsSteve wrote:
Unfortunately if you find a special power sword\weapon\armour etc you can't transfer the power to...

We allowed Limited Wish to 'swap' an enchantment from one item to another (so long as the second item fit whatever criteria were involved for the enchantment, and the magic item wasn't sentient).

We also allowed Polymorph Any Object (which normally does not affect magic items) to turn the occasional +1 Glaive-Guisame into a +1 Longsword or whatever (nothing larger, so no +1 Dagger to +1 Halberd, but smaller was fine).

Having a ritual or Incantation to do something like this would make sense. (I love Incantations, we need more of that sort of thing for plot devices, IMO.)

Grand Lodge

Kirth Gersen wrote:
I'm with Set on this one. His explanations are perfectly viable, and serve to imply some continuity in gear, instead of constant "swapping out." Did Arthur sell Excalibur because a keen version was on sale down the street?

No, but he did a lot of sword swapping on the way to Excalibur if you've read enough of the original tales. :)


There is also the Arcane Anvil option from the RPG Superstar contest as a method to 'swap out' enchantments on weapons.

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