That's the sound of your OGL license being sucked away by Wizards.
I just read the GSL and the 4e SRD (or lack thereof). I have to agree with Green Ronin's reaction not to produce 4e material.
The OGL is irrevocable and cannot be sucked away, dispersed, dismissed or otherwise done away with…
Unless a company adopts the GSL for a product line, then that line is forever after barred from returning to OGL territory.
Unless a company adopts the GSL for a product line, then that line is forever after barred from returning to OGL territory.
which is why none of them are going for it, they don't want the control over their stuff...
I am very interested in the companies that are issuing 4E product without using the GSL. I hope they succeed in a big big way, but I fear that the suck is too strong.
The whole GSL deal reminds me of a certain line from a certain somewhat famous movie...
"The more you tighten your grip, the more systems will sip through your fingers." (/paraphrase)
It's a shame really, because the OGL was a wonderful thing and spurred on a huge wave of creativity in the RPG field overall. I too agree with the hopeful wishes for those who are able to put out good product without the ban-hammer of the GSL coming down on them.
Yorrik
The problem with the Game System Licence (GSL) is not that WoTC wants to take greater control of their product.
The problem, as stated by Green Ronin is "We do not, however, feel that this license treats third party publishers as valued partners."
The no going back clause is just another aspect of that attitude.
The problem with the Game System Licence (GSL) is not that WoTC wants to take greater control of their product.
The problem, as stated by Green Ronin is "We do not, however, feel that this license treats third party publishers as valued partners."
The no going back clause is just another aspect of that attitude.
I guess they kinda feel like they were responsible in part for 3.0/3.5 success and I would agree.
The fact that WotC is basically saying to them "Thanks for the game guys, but we're taking our ball and going home." really smacks of elitism and protectionism to a, dare I say it, TSR degree.
Ah. The good ole days of T$R. Where their logo was known by a different a acronym.
They.
$ue.
Regularly.
This got me wondering, before the OGL, was anyone ever allowed to produce D&D compatible material? Judges Guild did for a while, but their license lapsed. Anyone else know of any 3rd party publishing for D&D before the OGL?
This got me wondering, before the OGL, was anyone ever allowed to produce D&D compatible material? Judges Guild did for a while, but their license lapsed. Anyone else know of any 3rd party publishing for D&D before the OGL?
RuneQuest and Roll Aids are only two thing I can think off the top of my head.
Chief Technical Officer
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RuneQuest and Roll Aids are only two thing I can think off the top of my head.This got me wondering, before the OGL, was anyone ever allowed to produce D&D compatible material? Judges Guild did for a while, but their license lapsed. Anyone else know of any 3rd party publishing for D&D before the OGL?
Then—as now—a license wasn't required, so long as you didn't run afoul of intellectual property issues. Wizards of the Coast's very first product, The Primal Order, contained an appendix explaining how to use TPO with several different systems, including AD&D.
Then—as now—a license wasn't required, so long as you didn't run afoul of intellectual property issues. Wizards of the Coast's very first product, The Primal Order, contained an appendix explaining how to use TPO with several different systems, including AD&D.
According to a review of TPO on Rpg.net, they got sued by Palladium as a result.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Then—as now—a license wasn't required, so long as you didn't run afoul of intellectual property issues. Wizards of the Coast's very first product, The Primal Order, contained an appendix explaining how to use TPO with several different systems, including AD&D.According to a review of TPO on Rpg.net, they got sued by Palladium as a result.
Yes—though it included conversion notes for many game systems, exactly one publisher decided that it was actionable; that suit was settled out of court. TPO was eventually reprinted without the Palladium conversion notes. TSR never objected to it.
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Yes—though it included conversion notes for many game systems, exactly one publisher decided that it was actionable; that suit was settled out of court. TPO was eventually reprinted without the Palladium conversion notes. TSR never objected to it.Then—as now—a license wasn't required, so long as you didn't run afoul of intellectual property issues. Wizards of the Coast's very first product, The Primal Order, contained an appendix explaining how to use TPO with several different systems, including AD&D.According to a review of TPO on Rpg.net, they got sued by Palladium as a result.
Dang! Your TD street cred just shot up with me.
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Chief Technical Officer
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Yes—though it included conversion notes for many game systems, exactly one publisher decided that it was actionable; that suit was settled out of court. TPO was eventually reprinted without the Palladium conversion notes. TSR never objected to it.Wizards of the Coast's very first product, The Primal Order, contained an appendix explaining how to use TPO with several different systems, including AD&D.According to a review of TPO on Rpg.net, they got sued by Palladium as a result.
Actually, I've been reminded that while TSR didn't suggest *legal* action, they did *ask* Wizards to remove the AD&D conversions for the reprint.
Hah -- I have the edition of The Primal Order with conversion notes for both Palladium and AD&D in it (among numerous others). TPO is still one of my favorite 2nd Edition books. While I never used it directly, I've been inspired by the contents of the book to create my own parallel system of essential divine power for use in my own games.
I had completely forgotten this was a WotC book until youse guys brought it up.
Kenzer is doing exactly the same thing now as they did back in the 2E days: state "For use with Fourth Edition Dungeons and Dragons(registered trademark symbol)" and on the credits page, they state that D&D is owned by WotC and this does not challange their ownership of the IP.
The GSL is definitely sucking...
What does this have to do with Pathfinder? Pathfinder isn't going 4e and isn't using the GSL, so shouldn't this really be in the 4e section of the boards? Otherwise it seems to be trying to create another "edition wars" situation.
Oddly if Wizards had simply said hey its our game, no one else in the playground I would at lest respect them more, and think that maybe they really did feel OGL was too open with their stuff. But the GSL has done nothing but make people mad, and I still wouldn't risk what Kenzor is doing. Not that it matters since I still think its all going computer in five years. On another thread someone said that Hasbro rarely mentions Wizards and when they do so its mostly for Pokemo or Magic, but that got me thinking, if they realize that the name is the money maker, and pen and paper dosent make enough money for them, then it be logical to go online. The first time failed because computer rpg's and pen and paper rpgs are too differnt animals. Solution, make the pen and paper more online like, and when the new online game comes out everyone one into the pen and paper will say, hey this is just like then pen an paper except faster.