Dang it you little whippernsappers! Keep it down and get off my lawn!
First, the WoTC previous editions boards pointed me to Pathfinder as an alternate to going to 4E. Not sure if the OP is still up there though.
Second, I saw an anti-Pathfinder post there that a moderator shot down. Asking the OP to refrain from flaming it. Pleasantly surprised by that, but wasn't sure if that was a corporate point of view.
Still the tone is if you're not switching to 4E don't let the door hit in the butt on the way out.
The previous editions threads at WoTC make you feel like you're relegated to the basement. But most gamers prefer the bsmt. lol.
Of course the flamers are out in force, attacking all detractors. That alone keeps me away from other boards.
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At rpg.net, somebody started a thread that Wayne Reynolds was a dirty doublecrosser for doing 4e AND Pathfinder art.
Oooooh, really senses-shattering stuff, that.
Oh noes, and he did Razor Coast for Nic... the dirty whore!!! ;)
And Games Workshop.
Oh my.THE CHILDREN! WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!
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Naysayers are always a very loud croud. It's been that way ever since the first forums and chatrooms were started. It doesn't really reflect on the general attitude toward a certain element (be it Pathfidner, D&D 4e, or whatever else people are unhappy with). Should the negativity be ignored? No, of course not, and I'm pretty sure the good people at Paizo take even the negative response to their products seriously. It's just that a few threads on a few different forums really aren't indicative of a decrease in the popularity or the usefulness of Paizo products.
Oh, and this whole deal with Wayne Reynolds is just stupid. He's a fantasy artist (and a very talented one) and he takes the jobs he's offered. The man has to eat just like the rest of us. Personally I'm excited to see his artwork of many of the books I buy.
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Eric Mona vs Bill Slavicsek in a cage match!
James Jacobs vs Rich Baker in a last man standing match!
Jason Baulman vs Mike Mearls in a first blood match!
Lisa Stevens vs Shelly Mazzanoble in a bra & panties match!Now that's a WWE PPV I'd order. :)
Special bonus match: Wayne Reynolds fighting himself!!
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Eric Mona vs Bill Slavicsek in a cage match!
James Jacobs vs Rich Baker in a last man standing match!
Jason Baulman vs Mike Mearls in a first blood match!
Lisa Stevens vs Shelly Mazzanoble in a bra & panties match!Now that's a WWE PPV I'd order. :)
What, no TLC match? Atleast a Hell in the Cell match.
Ummm, wow. I think I'll head back over to EN world at this point. Just, wow.
-Warjack
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You're right. My apologies Pangur Ban. It is paranoid and not supported well by objective evidence. I apologize for attacking you personally and talking about you in a derogatory manner. I also apologize to the rest of you for sullying the board by engaging in this sort of behavior. I don't want to ruin this place for anyone, and Ixancoatl makes good points about the ridiculousness of my behavior.
Lisa Stevens vs Shelly Mazzanoble in a bra & panties match!
Now that's a WWE PPV I'd order. :)
I know who I'd put money on!
If Shelley looks like her book cover, she'll snap like a twig!
A TWIG!
Who cares who wins!
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Don't go. You just got here. We're going to get some popcorn and beer before the Lisa vs Shelly match starts (GO LISA!). I think Heathy's got a really nice HD Tv we can watch it on.Ummm, wow. I think I'll head back over to EN world at this point. Just, wow.
-Warjack
Don't forget Lilith's cookies! :)
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You're right. My apologies Pangur Ban. It is paranoid and not supported well by objective evidence. I apologize for attacking you personally and talking about you in a derogatory manner. I also apologize to the rest of you for sullying the board by engaging in this sort of behavior. I don't want to ruin this place for anyone, and Ixancoatl makes good points about the ridiculousness of my behavior.
Somebody on the internet just apologized and it didn't come off as passive-aggressive backhanded snark?
I think that's one of the final signs of the apocalypse...
You've doomed us all, Brent!
Seriously, good form.
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Oh, and this whole deal with Wayne Reynolds is just stupid. He's a fantasy artist (and a very talented one) and he takes the jobs he's offered. The man has to eat just like the rest of us. Personally I'm excited to see his artwork of many of the books I buy.
Also... he's been working for Paizo since the beginning. It's not like he jumped ship or anything. There's no reason why Wayne Reynolds should have to take sides. Think of it this way: WotC and Paizo got a divorce and now they have joint custody.
Maybe hostility is coming from the populaces' desire for a Rolemaster supplement...
"Your dice shows a 63, but judging by the angle of the shadows, the sun is past it's zenith so we will go off of the After Noon charts. So adding your strength to the second exponent, subtracting 16 times your unpleasantness factor all divided by 4C... comes to the conclusion that you miss... horribly... causing you to trip... and land on a rock... a sharp one... which punctures your kidney and you die like a sobbing baby in 2d4 rounds."
Yes, the people could riot over Rolemaster.
JP
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...and the misguided assumption on some folks part that "open playtest" means "adopting all my favorite houserules".
Huh. Good point. It didn't occur to me folks would get upset enough to lambaste the entire PfRPG or the company because their houserule didn't "make it" into even the later Alphas. I thought the point of the open-testing was primarily to provide feedback on the current rule-set. And while the Paizo krew's open to new rules (there's even a threat on it), they've expressed interest at this time to see how the releases work first.
Thanks, Brent.
I blame society. @#$%in' society.
This is the internet. If it exists, there are people whining about it.
That's a much nicer rule than #34.
Maybe hostility is coming from the populaces' desire for a Rolemaster supplement...
"Your dice shows a 63, but judging by the angle of the shadows, the sun is past it's zenith so we will go off of the After Noon charts. So adding your strength to the second exponent, subtracting 16 times your unpleasantness factor all divided by 4C... comes to the conclusion that you miss... horribly... causing you to trip... and land on a rock... a sharp one... which punctures your kidney and you die like a sobbing baby in 2d4 rounds."
Yes, the people could riot over Rolemaster.
JP
I suppose it's wonderfully lucky for us that online messageboards weren't around for rules debates of Rolemaster back in its heyday. Imagine how long those postings would be just to analyze the charts.
Some people like 4E. Some people like 3.5.
...
Wah. Like what you like, I'll like what I like, and our wildly divergent tastes mean that I'm less likely to sleep with your girlfriend
Umm... What Set said. Does it really matter if some 4e fanboys are making some pointless sounds on the internet about Paizo? I guarantee that engaging in lengthy flame wars with them will not help Paizo's sales one bit. People pay attention to the quality of the products not the length of the flame wars.
Let the 4e fanboys play 4e, when their rants go unanswered they just drift off the front page of the forums and get forgotten about.
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Joela - are you just attempting to agitate here?
No.
Your last few threads have involved: "growing hostility against PAIZO" and "problems with 3.5" and "well now I'm definately sticking with 3.x NOT", and you seem to be a defender of 4e. So, please help me understand... are you asking us to comment about growing hositility, or is this thread an example of your own secret hostility?
The former. As for the latter, are you a psychologist?
Your thread could have been called, "What are we saying to those who are hostile toward PAIZO?"
So would you suggest some sorta "title moderation" program?
Everyone I've spoken with is favorable toward PAIZO. PAIZO has a reputation for having the highest quality product in the business. PAIZO's reputation is one of innovation and fantastic customer service. I am interested to hear what PAIZONIANS have to say about your question, but you've chosen to name the thread in a dirisive way that suggests a crisis or widespread hostility. Please explain, I am open to listening and correcting any misperceptions...
"PAIZONIAN"? Huh. That's new. What mindset do you have to have to qualify to be one? And if you don't have such a mindset, does that mean we're to be "oust" from the boards?
Maybe hostility is coming from the populaces' desire for a Rolemaster supplement...
"Your dice shows a 63, but judging by the angle of the shadows, the sun is past it's zenith so we will go off of the After Noon charts. So adding your strength to the second exponent, subtracting 16 times your unpleasantness factor all divided by 4C... comes to the conclusion that you miss... horribly... causing you to trip... and land on a rock... a sharp one... which punctures your kidney and you die like a sobbing baby in 2d4 rounds."
Yes, the people could riot over Rolemaster.
JP
That is priceless:)
I do miss Rolemaster though, meh, maybe not
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I have actually had a few cases where I contacted a person off-board at enworld and had them admit to me that they had created multiple aliases to flame Pathfinder. The reason vary but most have expressed a fear that Pathfinder will cut into sales of 4th edition and ultimately bring the whole industry down. I have tried to explain that their over dramatic apocalyptic views about Paizo and Pathfinder are ungrounded but they don't want to listen. (I do phrase it a little more empathetic than that though.)
That's INTERESTING. Thanks, David.
G@*~~+n whippersnappers!
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2) Paizo should "grow some balls" and create a new rpg.This is a thoroughly childish argument on their part.
The whole point (well not the whole point, but a by product that has become sort of a main point) of the OGL/d20 System is that companies can use the OGL/d20 System to create their own Lisenced games. Many companies have done so (including WotC). A short, (but by no means comprehensive) list just based on my own collection/experience are:
Ptolus (Monte Cook)
WARS (Mongoose)
Spycraft (AEG)
Red Star (Green Ronin)
True 20 (Green Ronin)
Star Wars (WotC)
d20 Modern/Future/Past (WotC)
Arcana Evolved (Malhavoc Press)
Sinister Adventures (Nic Logue)
and so on...
Pathfinder is no different to any of these other games in what it is trying to do (well besides Sinister, but Nic'd do 4e if he could I suspect), other than the fact that it is trying to do it to continue the legacy of 3.5, instead of converting to 4e.
I've been wondering about that, too. I suspect the timing of the PfRPG announcement so close to the release of 4E back in July and the system's deliberate backwards compatibility with 3.x separates it from more extreme products like True20 and AE.
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"PAIZONIAN"? Huh. That's new. What mindset do you have to have to qualify to be one? And if you don't have such a mindset, does that mean we're to be "oust" from the boards?
Paizonian has been used on these boards for at least 3 years. It is usually used as a descriptor for Employees of Paizo but more recently I have seen it being used, and have used it, when referencing fellow posters on the boards.
There is no required mindset besides a love of Paizo, which if one doesn't have, IMO, they should find a new board.I can't understand why people will come to Paizo site to discuss how awful Paizo is. If someone doesn't like Paizo they should leave. I don't go to WOTC's boards for that reason.
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I'm more a lurker than a poster on most rpg forums (and forums in general). In my casual observation, the increase in Paizo bashing is more an indicator of Paizo's increasing popularity in the rpg community than a dissatisfaction with Paizo's product. Paizo's ENnie nominations should be proof positive that they're doing *something* right in their first year of Pathfinder.
As for the Pathfinder RPG, I wonder how many people have actually played the Alpha rules, and how many just flipped through the pdf looking for something to dislike. (For that matter, I would not be surprised if many of them have never even looked at the pdfs.) I find some irony that 4e fans would bash PfRPG, as there was no truly open playtest at all for 4e. I guess it's easy to forget that the PathfinderRPG is still a work in progress.
But this is the internets, if we can't complain about pointless things without cause or reason, what else would we do?
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(Edit for clarity: This is an irreverant, humorous, observation)
I do not frequent other boards, so had not particularly noticed this, but when I read this post, for a moment I took you to be a rabid Paizo supporter, Joela, trying to rally the Paizo posters to go off and storm the message boards of the infidel hordes... :D'Oh hush the noise, ye men of strife, and hear the angels sing'
-Line from the christmas carol 'It came upon the midnight clear'.
Charles Evans 25, I've seen your name on the Paizo board long enough to know that you know I'm not "rabid" about anything. Well, except Lilith's cookies :D
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Lisa Stevens vs Shelly Mazzanoble in a bra & panties match!Now that's a WWE PPV I'd order. :)
Took me a minute to figure out who Shelly was....
A CEO versus a writer? Why don't you stick Ms Mazzanoble without a flamethrower against a Chtorr?!?
I also think that WotC is drumming up some of the negative sentiment because of Pathfinders success.I think you should write an article for the Smoking Gun. It'd fit right in.
Honestly, if you're going to go around making this sort of sordid accusations you should at least provide something in the way of proof.
People on both sides of the fence are turning into rabid fanatics. Pathfinder is a giant target for those who turn their zealotry against 3E. That's all there's to it, IMO.
Pangur Bàn isn't entirely full of it, but you'll have to do a lot of digging to find what he's talking about.
2) Paizo should "grow some balls" and create a new rpg.This is a thoroughly childish argument on their part.
The whole point (well not the whole point, but a by product that has become sort of a main point) of the OGL/d20 System is that companies can use the OGL/d20 System to create their own Lisenced games. Many companies have done so (including WotC). A short, (but by no means comprehensive) list just based on my own collection/experience are:
- [whole bunch of OGL/d20 games & supplements snipped]
Pathfinder is no different to any of these other games in what it is trying to do (well besides Sinister, but Nic'd do 4e if he could I suspect), other than the fact that it is trying to do it to continue the legacy of 3.5, instead of converting to 4e.
Your last sentence is right on the money -- the difference is that they're trying to keep something alive (3.5ish D&D) that WotC would rather have dead. There's not much chance of putting the OGL genie back in the bottle, though.
Personally, if I thought that Paizo was going to publish a clone of the 3.5 Player's Handbook with just the minimum number of changes to avoid a lawsuit, I'd consider that a bit weak creatively (just as I consider a book consisting solely of 3.0/3.5 translations of 1st edition monsters a bit weak). But from what I've seen there has been a good faith effort to make something different and (hopefully) better. YMMV.
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Took me a minute to figure out who Shelly was.... A CEO versus a writer? Why don't you stick Ms Mazzanoble without a flamethrower against a Chtorr?!?
There are no other prominent lady types front and center at WOTC.
Chris Perkins is booked to do a run-in on Shelly's behalf only to get taken down by Mike McArtor who'll come out of the stands for the save. :)
Kum-Bye-Ya..... Kum-Bye-Ya.......
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We have fans running websites dedicated to Paizo, chatrooms for us, they've ordered us pizza on days we're on huge deadlines, and they even threw together a small convention for all-things Paizo.
Yes, but have you met those people? They're... disturbed. I wouldn't use them as references for my daycare. Just sayin'.
We have fans running websites dedicated to Paizo, chatrooms for us, they've ordered us pizza on days we're on huge deadlines, and they even threw together a small convention for all-things Paizo.
Yes, but have you met those people? They're... disturbed. I wouldn't use them as references for my daycare. Just sayin'.
Mwah-hah-hah! :D
*makes cookies*
Creative Director
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We have fans running websites dedicated to Paizo, chatrooms for us, they've ordered us pizza on days we're on huge deadlines, and they even threw together a small convention for all-things Paizo.
Yes, but have you met those people? They're... disturbed. I wouldn't use them as references for my daycare. Just sayin'.
I have indeed met them. And they're not that disturbed at all; they're normal folks just like the rest of us!
If you're looking for disturbed... look no further than Nick Logue. Actually, strike that. Look at the guy who asked Nick to write an adventure about hillbilly ogres and then proceeded to publish it. What I'm saying is that I'm probably more disturbed than most of Paizo's readers.
That, and I regularly make bread out of children and then resell it to grocery store chains under false pretenses. "Yeah. Those bits of white are FLAVOR CRUNCHES, not bits of unpowdered bone."
The cookies are a lie.Mwah-hah-hah! :D
*makes cookies*
Gat Hinn Mah Balleh!!!
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Eric Mona vs Bill Slavicsek in a cage match!
James Jacobs vs Rich Baker in a last man standing match!
Jason Bulmahn vs Mike Mearls in a first blood match!
Lisa Stevens vs Shelly Mazzanoble in a bra & panties match!Now that's a WWE PPV I'd order. :)
Or....
Eric Mona vs Bill Slavicsek in an Ultimate X match!
James Jacobs vs Rich Baker in a Full Metal Mayhem match!
Jason Bulmahn vs Mike Mearls in a King of the Mountain match!
Lisa Stevens vs Shelly Mazzanoble in a streetfight match!
Now that's a TNA PPV I'd order.
Like what you like, I'll like what I like, and our wildly divergent tastes mean that I'm less likely to sleep with your girlfriend.
HAHAHA!!!
Quote of the day. It made my Pepsi come out of my nose. Oh it burns! :)