You mean to tell me that the movie 1 Million B.C. was not based on historical fact?
You mean to tell me that the movie 1 Million B.C. was not based on historical fact?
You notice how good their teeth looked? Lots of flouride in the water and mastadon meat.
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Personally, I view the pulp fantasy roots of the game as a feature and not a flaw...
Well that is going in my .sig file. Not here obviously, since we don't have sigs. But elsewhere. Oh, and I agree.
Meanwhile: I kind of have to question this guy's commitment to fair trade. Okay, sure, WOTC prints its books in the US, and Paizo prints them in China. Which is where WOTC manufactures their miniatures. And has dozens of people working in shops (where they might even be sweating) hand-painting billions of cheap bits of plastic that their American-printed game was designed to sell.
I mean really. If Paizo's hands are dirty because they take advantage of manufacturing in China, then WOTC's are tar black.
You mean to tell me that the movie 1 Million B.C. was not based on historical fact?You notice how good their teeth looked? Lots of flouride in the water and mastadon meat.
Yeah. Did you also notice how Raquel Welch looked like she stepped out of a hair salon?
No, cohabitation in the same valley was A-Ok.
You just couldn't "lay" with a dinosaur.
Laithoron:This link is the Unearthed Arcana Spell Point system on the SRD site.
Hm.
What do you get when a flame thread gets hijaacked into a food thread into a joke thread into a rules thread into....???
Hmm...no matter which side of the political fence you fall on, it seems to me that the higher the price of oil goes, the more incentive there will be to invest in other sources of energy. Since oil is a finite resource, we'll have to replace it sooner or later anyway.
I'm not being glib; I really do think the next several years might be a painful transition, but one that will ultimately be a change for the better.
4. Vancian casting is still haunting the scene. Enough said on that point.
BEWARE THE HAUNTING!!!
vancian is a system where you have the ability to learn a bunch of spells and use them then they are forgotten until you rest and relearn.
4e daily powers you have the ability to do something 1/day until you rest to regain that ability- and per encounter powers 'recover' without rest but in that magical 'between encounter' window.
I dont get how the first system can be a reality breaking abomination but the second a useful game mechanic. You say potato, I say potato.
My view the big 4e difference is that everyone has per day powers (used to be called spells), no-one has very many. And there are these fast recovery spells/powers/whatever called per encounter powers.
No, think he of the fiendish T-rex avatar would have more of an identity crisis with no demon/dinosaur cohabitation :)Jacobs is going to be *pissed* when he hears this...Wait, dinosaurs and humans never coexisted?
Jeez, thanks for that image, not getting any sleep tonight.
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And what wasn't killed by disease was done in by fire, sword, and vicious, half-rabid attack dogs. No, seriously. And then there was the Inquisition. (In fact, the Inquisition helped fund Columbus's expedition vi siezed assets.) The Spaniards of the 15th & 16th centuries were almost stereotypical fantasy villains. Nasty bastards.
And people say you can't find anything useful to gaming in history. ;)
You forgot that Isabella did two big things in 1492.
One was funding Columbus.The other was expelling the Jews from Spain.
I am not sure the forums could survive if I started really ranting about all of that.
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You forgot that Isabella did two big things in 1492.
One was funding Columbus.
The other was expelling the Jews from Spain.
I am not sure the forums could survive if I started really ranting about all of that.
Don't worry we are not dangerous anymore. Usually conquerer, warmongering empires, wannabe empires, countries tend to be the villains of their history moment.
And yet another troll comes lurking out of the nearby bridge ...
I thought the story was one troll and three billy goats...???
Reappears in a puff of Vancian magic
Dopple was not a troll, that was just me getting angry and posting badly. Goes to show why you should never get sucked in to these bad karma fests.
disappears once again
I thought the story was one troll and three billy goats...???
And yet another troll comes lurking out of the nearby bridge ...
Not this story, only one billy goat, and three trolls. Larry is still so hungry though.
Must find the troll-food!
Where did it go?
Reappears in a puff of Vancian magic
Dopple was not a troll, that was just me getting angry and posting badly. Goes to show why you should never get sucked in to these bad karma fests.
disappears once again
Yes I know... I just couldn't help thinking of that story.
Honestly, refusing to financially support companies that are invested in places like China (or S. Africa in the 1980s) is a perfectly legitimate rationale. I'd respect that as a reason not to play PfRPG.
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Honestly, refusing to financially support companies that are invested in places like China (or S. Africa in the 1980s) is a perfectly legitimate rationale. I'd respect that as a reason not to play PfRPG.
Indeed it is, but supporting another that makes miniatures in places like China instead seems not to be logical.
6. And this is the real kicker that finally pushed me over the edge -- 4th edition, it turns out, is being printed in the U.S., while Pathfinder is being printed in China. If given a choice, I will support a company which supports American families rather than the People's Liberation Army slave-labor sweatshop factories.Almost every day I see something on the internet that makes me think "Wow, this is the stupidest thing I've ever seen/read."
This takes the cake for today. Totally out of line.
Ditto.
While it might not be the most viable reason to completely abandon Pathfinder, perhaps Paizo could investigate possibility of printing their products in a more .... democratic location ? Eastern Europe maybe ?
Or Switzerland! You can have the books made of chocolate!
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While it might not be the most viable reason to completely abandon Pathfinder, perhaps Paizo could investigate possibility of printing their products in a more .... democratic location ? Eastern Europe maybe ?
If we, the fans, would be willing to pay more, and significantly more, then sure. Any takers?
*crickets chirp*
Yeah, I thought so.
Must find the troll-food!
Where did it go?
*Oink*
This is not the Troll food you are looking for *Waves Snout*
*Oink*
Honestly, refusing to financially support companies that are invested in places like China (or S. Africa in the 1980s) is a perfectly legitimate rationale. I'd respect that as a reason not to play PfRPG.
Should we remind him that WotC makes all of its prepainted plastic minis in China?
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Honestly, refusing to financially support companies that are invested in places like China (or S. Africa in the 1980s) is a perfectly legitimate rationale. I'd respect that as a reason not to play PfRPG.Should we remind him that WotC makes all of its prepainted plastic minis in China?
I kept thinking the same thing.
I've seen the size of the plant(s) Hasbro has in China. Hooboy...
To the issue of hypocrisy if there are two choices for something and one choice indirectly supports your political/moral/religious/national interest and one does not, then choosing the one that does is fine. If there are not two choices but only one choice and that choice does not support your other interests then choosing that one is fine as well.
So given a choice between going with the pathfinder system and 4e, choosing 4e partially based on it being printed in the US is fine and is not hypocritical merely because WotC also has things made in China. Especially if (1) the person is not interested in those other things (i.e. he is supporting those things he has an interest in) or (2) there is no real other option for those other products (how many US companies are making plastic miniatures for RPGs?).
Hmm...no matter which side of the political fence you fall on, it seems to me that the higher the price of oil goes, the more incentive there will be to invest in other sources of energy. Since oil is a finite resource, we'll have to replace it sooner or later anyway.
I'm not being glib; I really do think the next several years might be a painful transition, but one that will ultimately be a change for the better.
Sadly, I think some people actually want it to be even harder than it needs to be so that they can have their "enlightened" agenda occur faster. And some of those folks are actually happy (though they won't admit it) to see these painful times, despite it hurting those least able to deal with it the most (mostly lower income folk who drive older, less efficient vehicles, who can't afford to go and buy a new car every year).
Well, to be fair, one cannot be blamed for what the gov't does...
If one does not want to buy foreign products, that is ones choice... and it is taking money away from the foreign company no matter how you look at it.As far as flag waving goes, where I come from it is called patriotism.
And if we could only get rid of the left-wing, liberal, enviro-weenies, perhaps America would drill for it's own oil. But thank the democrats for hamstringing any attempts at energy independence.
If you think the economy is bad now, wait until a Democrat becomes President... that frightens me... really...Sorry for the political discourse. All of the above is my opinion only. Feel free to disagree...
Wow, then you don't have any idea about Peak Oil then. A couple more decades and the lifestyle you like so much is going to be permanently destroyed.
I see your point. What I think will happen though is the minute we open drilling, you will see the price of oil drop like a rock. The only reason prices are high is because the Middle East is sticking to us because they know they can. I don't think free market forces are in play here.Hate to tell you this but we're not the bad guys. Extreme Islamic fundamentalism is. Yes, drilling is the answer. We can't conserve our way out of this situation and alternative resources are a few years away. The best plan is to keep using oil until alternative technology catches up. I agree with you on one thing though. Long live Prpg!The best (i.e. cooked) estimates for getting oil out of ANWAR are 5 years, ten years or longer is more likely. Even then, there won't be enough production to really offset the price increases. Coastal oil may have more potential - there's more there than in ANWAR. Coastal rigs take 3-4 years to get going.
Basically, we're not going to produce our way out of today's crunch, though we might be somewhere in a decade.
The price is rising for ever and it's not going to get better because the worldwide oil production is reaching the Hubbert Peak, which is the point where the easiest-extractable half of a non-renovable resource is exausted. Oil's peak is stated to happen between 2008 and 2010. If you want to read more about it I leave you this blog: http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/
I leave you this blog: http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/And remember it's a blog, which means it is automatically correct
I never implied that. I only wanted to give him another point of view, which, as all points of view are, subjective. But it may give him another angle of the problem that he never thought off (yes, I'm that annoying when it comes to points of view, when somebody else comes with only the vision of this blog and nothing else I'll post a blog that is opposite of that one)
Wait, dinosaurs and humans never coexisted?
No. Of course not. Everyone knows that. When the aliens came to earth to put humans there, they first eradicated the dinos.
Unless...
Unless the aliens WERE the dinosaurs, created humans and left...
Dun dun dun...
;)
Honestly, refusing to financially support companies that are invested in places like China (or S. Africa in the 1980s) is a perfectly legitimate rationale. I'd respect that as a reason not to play PfRPG.Should we remind him that WotC makes all of its prepainted plastic minis in China?
This makes me glad that I don't buy them. Also, weren't they randomized or something?
I've bought maybe one mini in my life. Everything else is cardboard chits, those glass stones, pennies, etc.
What do you get when a flame thread gets hijaacked into a food thread into a joke thread into a rules thread into....???
I'd like to congratulate the forum for making a petty post into an interesting thread. Despite our political, Vancian, and culinary differences, we're all intelligent enough to steer things in the direction of more civilized discourse.
Let us look forward to the time when everyone that puts a "versus" between 4th edition and Pathfinder has made one of these posts and left us to play happily with either system (or both in my case.)
When did Paizo relocate to China?
Lisa, how is the staff enjoying the preparations for the olympics?
Does this mean my shipping prices will go up for overseas?
ROTFLMAO!
Just a sidenote to the underinformed OP ... I think in this day and age just being American supports China considering we have borrowed anywhere from 600 billion to 1 trillion bucks from China in the last 8 years ... approxiamtely 28% of our national income.
So if you're gonna be jingoist, be fully informed jingoist.
Oh, and keep waving that flag as you fund the oil cartels in not America drivin some overcompensation mobile.
.... I'm sorry. That was a bit out of line. My apologies.
Well, to be fair, one cannot be blamed for what the gov't does...
If one does not want to buy foreign products, that is ones choice... and it is taking money away from the foreign company no matter how you look at it.As far as flag waving goes, where I come from it is called patriotism.
And if we could only get rid of the left-wing, liberal, enviro-weenies, perhaps America would drill for it's own oil. But thank the democrats for hamstringing any attempts at energy independence.
If you think the economy is bad now, wait until a Democrat becomes President... that frightens me... really...Sorry for the political discourse. All of the above is my opinion only. Feel free to disagree...
"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." -Oscar Wilde
"Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious." -Oscar Wilde
Oh, a quote. Therefore it must be true. It is not like any famous person was ever wrong or talking out of their arse.
To the issue of hypocrisy if there are two choices for something and one choice indirectly supports your political/moral/religious/national interest and one does not, then choosing the one that does is fine. If there are not two choices but only one choice and that choice does not support your other interests then choosing that one is fine as well.
So given a choice between going with the pathfinder system and 4e, choosing 4e partially based on it being printed in the US is fine and is not hypocritical merely because WotC also has things made in China. Especially if (1) the person is not interested in those other things (i.e. he is supporting those things he has an interest in) or (2) there is no real other option for those other products (how many US companies are making plastic miniatures for RPGs?).
That is an argument, but hardly a strong one. If the OP is willing to overlook his perceived issues with labor conditions in China and (not) supporting the local economy just to get plastic minis (which he can easily do without or replace with something else that doesn't conflict with his moral convictions), I can't say that's really taking a stand. And supporting a company that sells morally suspect products with the justification that he's not supporting these products themselves is really on the same level. If he wants to stand up for his beliefs, a little hardship goes a long way (and so does not making a few sacrifices for it, only in the opposite direction).
Hm.
What do you get when a flame thread gets hijaacked into a food thread into a joke thread into a rules thread into....???
Somewhat of a quandary, I'm afraid.
That is an argument, but hardly a strong one. If the OP is willing to overlook his perceived issues with labor conditions in China and (not) supporting the local economy just to get plastic minis (which he can easily do without or replace with something else that doesn't conflict with his moral convictions), I can't say that's really taking a stand. And supporting a company that sells morally suspect products with the justification that he's not supporting these products themselves is really on the same level. If he wants to stand up for his beliefs, a little hardship goes a long way (and so does not making a few sacrifices for it, only in the opposite direction).
Or it just shows that a person need not be a fanatic. One does not have to "cut off your nose to spite your face". When there are two equally as "valid" choices, I see nothing wrong with using where they are made as a basis for choosing between them. Besides if he is choosing to play 4e, he is already making some sacrifices (gnomes, half-orcs, bards, druids, ...).