The subject title basically sums this up for me. Much of the material printed for this hobby is for young teens and up. The game seems to try for a clean and wholesome look ( depending on the publisher) and I guess that is to placate discerning parents.
Now, despite the inherent conflict/levels of violence within the game, the levels of love/lust are hardly dealt with let alone role played ( for obvious reasons) and yet they are such an important part of our world, it is hard to truly ignore those elements in the game without it losing something and becoming a bit souless IMO.
What I want to know is how strongly you use/reject the ideas of love/lust and sex in your games. We all know that sex sells and we see from the art of several books from several companies that it is in our game, but how much does it play a role in 'your' game?
thanks.
|
I go for it, on account of I can get the players to go on a mission to save their girl.
I don't get too graphic about it though.
People know what happens.
I got a cleric on the pbp's here; there was this deal with him and a half orc female,....everybody who read it was like, "what's up with that?" So I'd go, "what are you talking about?" You know, play it off.
I think in today's world of instant gratification and over-the-top everything that subtlety is a welcome drink of lemonade.
|
|
The subject title basically sums this up for me. Much of the material printed for this hobby is for young teens and up. The game seems to try for a clean and wholesome look ( depending on the publisher) and I guess that is to placate discerning parents.
Now, despite the inherent conflict/levels of violence within the game, the levels of love/lust are hardly dealt with let alone role played ( for obvious reasons) and yet they are such an important part of our world, it is hard to truly ignore those elements in the game without it losing something and becoming a bit souless IMO.
What I want to know is how strongly you use/reject the ideas of love/lust and sex in your games. We all know that sex sells and we see from the art of several books from several companies that it is in our game, but how much does it play a role in 'your' game?
thanks.
Sparingly. I've had players get the drop on one bad guy because he was in a compromising position with a succubus and allowed a couple of players who were romantically-involved in real life to get together in a "fade to black" way, but other than that, I don't think I've ever used it. The "adult" material in my games tends to originate from the black-heartedness of my villains and tends to be more of the nature of "violent crime against innocent people" than "sex, drugs, and rock'n'roll".
I go for it, on account of I can get the players to go on a mission to save their girl. I don't get too graphic about it though. People know what happens.
Ditto.
Really depends on who your players are and what has come up in game. D&D tends to be pretty PG-13, but for example the Conan D20 game has a certain amount of mature subject matter in it--for example cults demanding human sacrifice, slavery, etc. The Shadizar boxed set has an adventure that starts in a brothel and ends up with a cult of lust summoning a greater succubus.
Sparingly. I've had players get the drop on one bad guy because he was in a compromising position with a succubus and allowed a couple of players who were romantically-involved in real life to get together in a "fade to black" way, but other than that, I don't think I've ever used it. The "adult" material in my games tends to originate from the black-heartedness of my villains and tends to be more of the nature of "violent crime against innocent people" than "sex, drugs, and rock'n'roll".
Ditto. Actually getting descriptive with sexuality in the game has always seemed extremely creepy and/or pathetic to me. I'm a big fan of sexy "chicks in chainmail" artwork and such, but I don't focus on sex at all when playing, and not very heavily on romance, unless I've got a player who really wants to go that route.
That said, the wizard I played in Shackled City spent a great deal of time and effort between adventures trying to seduce Skie, so there's a time and a place for everything, IMO. :)
For me it depends on the group and how much it develops the story, similar to what some of you have said. I find getting the PCs to seduce an NPC or 'outperform' one as a challenge to get something/someone they need for their quest can add to the game. The tension of an NPC refusing to help unless they get the body of the paladin for one night is worth it for the slippery slope it puts the character on. Also, it depends on the place, sometimes it adds flavour. The brothel one of you mentioned for example, or Belial and Fierna's hellish court. Shendilavri... nuff said.
One of the players in my rl campaign is 12, so I tailor situations appropriately.
|
When it comes to being adult, my group seems to water it down in 16 year old humor, even though we're all twenty-something & thirty-something. I think the real adult entertainment in my campaigns gets more to the core of what a person would do through their own morals. I often turn their ugliness back on them and watch them re-evaluate their past doings with real adult eyes. I don't think 16 year olds are mentally prepared to face these kinds of things like "real adults". However, there are some things in D&D my group will never be able to do with a straight face. In the end, is the character a mirror of yourself, or just a drama piece of acting that has no reflection on the actor.
|
|
Joking apart, I find it slightly weird, and potentially unhealthy, that someone would "seriously" get involved in some sort of roleplaying situation involving love or sexual attraction for an imaginary character, unless they are very, very seriously into roleplaying their character.
I think that is why many people, men especially, treat the sex side of the game as a joke (my character in Heathy's pbp here has a girlfriend is he is desperate to get past first base with, but it is effectively an ongoing joke in the campaign rather than a heavy piece of roleplaying). Which is why all of the games I have been involved in have really gone for the teen-humour approach to this.
|
Sparingly. I've had players get the drop on one bad guy because he was in a compromising position...
Unfortunately, that's a major factor why many players are horrified by the idea of a romantic liaison, in-game. So many see it as a way for the DM to 'get the drop on them'. You know the player type; they always have a readied weapon, they always sleep in their armour, they would 'always be ready for an attack', never be surprised, always 'would have cast' their defensive spells, etc...
Or, they worry about being 'Peter Parker', with a long list of sickly, fragile dependents, who'll be constantly kidnapped or put in danger, so the DM can railroad them into his plotline.
Unfortunately, in many cases, their paranoia is justified. Their DM doesn't introduce such themes unless they intend to hose the player, so the vicious cycle repeats.
|
|
Joking apart, I find it slightly weird, and potentially unhealthy, that someone would "seriously" get involved in some sort of roleplaying situation involving love or sexual attraction for an imaginary character.
What, even the Cadbury's Caramel Rabbit?
...my character in Heathy's pbp here has a girlfriend is he is desperate to get past first base with, but it is effectively an ongoing joke in the campaign rather than a heavy piece of roleplaying...
Gittik ain't gonna get no sugar, till he gets somathat edju-ma-cayshun.
Them clever gals like a guy what can talk all smart-like.|
|
Joking apart, I find it slightly weird, and potentially unhealthy, that someone would "seriously" get involved in some sort of roleplaying situation involving love or sexual attraction for an imaginary character, unless they are very, very seriously into roleplaying their character.
I think that is why many people, men especially, treat the sex side of the game as a joke (my character in Heathy's pbp here has a girlfriend is he is desperate to get past first base with, but it is effectively an ongoing joke in the campaign rather than a heavy piece of roleplaying). Which is why all of the games I have been involved in have really gone for the teen-humour approach to this.
He's an anti-Conan; big bruiser of a guy that turns to mush around the ladies.
I don't let my games revolve around it, but to just ignore it is assinine.
I remember a town in Ravenloft, where the undead prostitues still plied their trade...
That is just SO gross... and yet cool (from a macabre point of view, not sexual). Those are the kinds of things we won't see anymore - everything will just be wishy-washy Toy-Company-approved black & white monster encounters from now on.
FR had a fair number of homosexual/bisexual couplings that were never 'prominent' in the material, but it was there if you read carefully. If they take that out, what sort of message will WotC be giving? That that sort of thing is 'dirty' and "not right"?
Another big storyline in folklore (and sadly, medieval reality) was the 'stealing of children' - there are dozens, perhaps hundreds, of stories dealing with this subject matter. Everything from the Pied Piper of Hamlin to Fey abducting babies to Hansel and Gretel.
Companies will now have to avoid such 'distasteful' plots in adventures because they are too 'scarey' for children?
I don't care for The Book of Erotic Fantasy, and think that people who play games that revolve around sexual encounters have a problem (just my opinion), but they DO happen, and to just pretend 'bad things' don't exist, or that perople don't use "foul Language" is preposterous and un-realistic.
Hasbro's lawyers have turned D&D into a children's toy, bottom line.
|
|
Joking apart, I find it slightly weird, and potentially unhealthy, that someone would "seriously" get involved in some sort of roleplaying situation involving love or sexual attraction for an imaginary character.
What, even the Cadbury's Caramel Rabbit?
A good point, well made.
"Hey, Mr Beaver, why are you beavering around?" <pant, slobber>
It rather ruins the effect that it was Miriam Margoyles providing the voice for that, apparently. A good actress, but....
...my character in Heathy's pbp here has a girlfriend is he is desperate to get past first base with, but it is effectively an ongoing joke in the campaign rather than a heavy piece of roleplaying...
Gittik ain't gonna get no sugar, till he gets somathat edju-ma-cayshun. Them clever gals like a guy what can talk all smart-like.
"YOU NO TALK ABOUT MY GIRL LIKE THAT!!"
|
|
He's an anti-Conan; big bruiser of a guy that turns to mush around the ladies.Joking apart, I find it slightly weird, and potentially unhealthy, that someone would "seriously" get involved in some sort of roleplaying situation involving love or sexual attraction for an imaginary character, unless they are very, very seriously into roleplaying their character.
I think that is why many people, men especially, treat the sex side of the game as a joke (my character in Heathy's pbp here has a girlfriend is he is desperate to get past first base with, but it is effectively an ongoing joke in the campaign rather than a heavy piece of roleplaying). Which is why all of the games I have been involved in have really gone for the teen-humour approach to this.
oh; I thought you was talking about Hudak.
Gittik can't get none either ;)|
|
I'm pretty much with the majority on this one. It only get's brought up if the player with his PC is trying to add more for the roleplaying aspect of "life" to the character. And in the past those players have loved the thought of having to go rescue their lover or in a later adventure set in the future play their characters offspring.
But also I must add, after having played at a table with younger gamers (14 and such) I have personnally decided to play with mature players just because the evilness of a villian get's lost when you censor it too much.
But as for sex scenes, I definitely fade to black on that one. Just don't feel the need to waist the time roleplaying or describing what happens..."And you encounter ends with a pleasant night. Jezalla the Barmaid provides you with pleasing entertainment."
That's about as far as I take it.
I have seen the book of Erotic Fantasy that was published and the fact of wasting skill points on a skill (Perform: Sex) I think is just ridiculous and a waste.
Just my thoughts.
I thought Mongoose's Encyclopedia Arcane: Nymphology was a lot better than BoEF.
To answer the OP's question, "As adult as I and my players are comfortable with." :)
My wife and I have very detailed backgrounds for all of our characters and have written many short stories just for our own amusment (Four binders full at this point). Most of the stories deal with down time stuff including relationships, sex and families.
I will note that my game world seems to be very unique from what I've read on the boards because one: many of the NPCs that I use are developed enough that when they are in play, they are played like PCs. Two: my wife an I have agreed only to mate characters with each other to make sure there isn't any jealousy and because we are the constant player/ DM, while other players float in and out. There is really no point in tying a storyline to someone who may or may not show up to play.
So to answer the question, How adult? Well, that depends on if my 13 yr old niece is sitting at the table. If it's an adult's only game, sex jokes and inuendo fly (Just because I know my players and it's just how we talk to each other outside of game play. And before anyone asks, my game group is actually made up of more women than men.)
I have one player who every time she rolls up a new character (male or female) she rolls percentil dice for a 50/50 split on if they are gay or straight and then plays them acordingly.
I'm kind of amazed you got away with all that. That particular female player must have responded with some kind of consent--apparently things went okay with that. Of course everyone has their buttons and stuff, right, and some aren't affected by what others are.
I think the most 'mature' thing in my game was a pc who was a woman married to another woman trying to figure out how they could have children, using a magical item to do that.
|
The subject title basically sums this up for me. Much of the material printed for this hobby is for young teens and up. The game seems to try for a clean and wholesome look ( depending on the publisher) and I guess that is to placate discerning parents.
What I want to know is how strongly you use/reject the ideas of love/lust and sex in your games. We all know that sex sells and we see from the art of several books from several companies that it is in our game, but how much does it play a role in 'your' game?
thanks.
It's a very good plot device, though I try not to overuse it. i also try to customize this according to the character's background.
BoeF is a great joke IMO.
We have a fair amount of consensual sex, most but not all offstage. There was a moment in SCAP where the situation of the two PC lovers had just changed a *lot* and it seemed essential to see where that left their relationship. (They had been estranged for a while because he was a powerful mind-mage and she was a mundane fighter; the power asymmetry bothered her deeply. But then she became a demon-lord, and suddenly the power situation was...quite different. Sex on the wing, in the Abyss. I'm sure it was memorable.)
In the current game two of the PCs have a crush on the same NPC; it'll be interesting to see where that goes. Given the NPC involved, things could get fairly kinky. There's a strange mix of attraction and jealousy between the two PCs themselves, but somehow I think a threesome is not in the cards.
Non-consensual sex happens but it's not described. The GM will bite his lip and say, "She was pretty badly abused while she was their prisoner" and that's enough for me, frankly.
I ran a multi-player campaign many years ago in which one of the PCs was gay, and the player handled it with immense subtlety--I remember being amused to watch the PC flirting with other male PCs, because about half of the players picked up on it but the other half were completely oblivious. If things ever went past flirting, though, no one told me about it.
I'd tone it down if I had players who were touchy about this, but our current game is one-on-one, and it's not an issue. (There's a line I'd rather not cross, but I'm pretty sure he knows where it is.)
Mary
I'm kind of amazed you got away with all that. That particular female player must have responded with some kind of consent--apparently things went okay with that. Of course everyone has their buttons and stuff, right, and some aren't affected by what others are.
It's all her idea. She just told me it's how she was doing things. All I said was "Uh...Ok." It wasn't something surprising comming for this player.
I thought Mongoose's Encyclopedia Arcane: Nymphology was a lot better than BoEF.
Thanks for the link. I'll check it out. One of the best guides I've ever seen for sex was a net book download from 2E Called "The Complete Guide to Unlawful Carnal Knowledge for Fantasy Role-Playing Games. I still have a printed copy sitting in one of my game bookshelves.
Joking apart, I find it slightly weird, and potentially unhealthy, that someone would "seriously" get involved in some sort of roleplaying situation involving love or sexual attraction for an imaginary character, unless they are very, very seriously into roleplaying their character.
I think that is why many people, men especially, treat the sex side of the game as a joke (my character in Heathy's pbp here has a girlfriend is he is desperate to get past first base with, but it is effectively an ongoing joke in the campaign rather than a heavy piece of roleplaying). Which is why all of the games I have been involved in have really gone for the teen-humour approach to this.
Maybe, but I think it could be argued that some would find it weird to hear that some of us get 'seriously' involved in a roleplaying situations involving violence, death, and mutilation.
Humor is good btw. I use that too, but not exclusively. Same is said for graphic descriptions of melee combat.
It's never gotten very "adult" in any of the games I've run. The only time any sex or rape seems to come up is in the form of backstory or anything, never in campaigns.
However, if a tasteful opportunity came up for something "adult" to go on, I'm fairly certain all but one person in my group could handle it. And it's not that the one person is like touchy about the subject. He's just really immature. He's the guy who turns everything into a "your mom" or "that's what she said" joke.
Or, they worry about being 'Peter Parker', with a long list of sickly, fragile dependents, who'll be constantly kidnapped or put in danger, so the DM can railroad them into his plotline.
Unfortunately, in many cases, their paranoia is justified. Their DM doesn't introduce such themes unless they intend to hose the player, so the vicious cycle repeats.
A GM who wants to turn this around should consider having some of the romantic liaisons produce favorable results. After all, in real life your lovers are sometimes motivated to help you out, not just hang around and get kidnapped. The support need not be direct assistance--money, political favors, and valuable information all work. Have the PC's boyfriend/girlfriend tip the PC off that an enemy is looking for them, or steer them to an adventure opportunity.
We have a PC currently trying to arrange an advantageous marriage, though she's picked someone so far above her station that it's going to be a hard sell. I would expect the GM to show some real political advantages to this marriage if she does manage to pull it off. (It will help make up for the fact that I think the bridgegroom-to-be is probably a rakshasa. *That* might be a sex scene that actually needs to be on-stage, at least briefly, so we can see whether she freaks out.)
I've also noticed that GMs who put in romantic opportunities usually pick low-level, mundane NPCs. After a certain point, it's really dangerous for the PCs to hang around such people, and they know it--not a good basis for romance. The possibility of liaisons with people who are closer to being the PCs' equals is worth exploring. Shalelu in RotRL is a nice example early on, but there aren't any clear candidates later.
Mary
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Personally, I'm a very big fan of "interaction" campaigns. You know, the ones where you can spend your whole game night on meeting and interacting with the NPC's or eachother. Most of the great rpg moments I recall involve high emotions. For example, my namesake character in a campaign was assigned to work with a Scout NPC to protect the prince. Said NPC kept flirting with me, through we were great friends. A few months later in campaign, he died in a great showdown with an Orc Cheiftain during a war skirmish while I helped defend the castle. ( btw resurrection magic don't work in the campaign ). My DM had my superior inform me of his passing, and then the King of the land explained that the NPC was a runaway prince, that was getting together a marriage for us. Then the DM described the scence when I visited his body... ... I had to excuse myself and leave the room in real life.
Love and lust are strong motivators. My rpg group has made a habit of making disclaimers and ratings at the start of a campaign. That way, those that are uncomfortable can choose not to be apart of it. Because of my own preference for making the game "as real as possible" I welcome all emotions and strive to invoke them in my own campaign. I've found the BoEF to be a great guide, and a few of the players have read some of it for a guideline to their alignment's and race's view on sex and love.
They also understand the consequences. Most of the PC's have gotten some sweet affection, and I roll to determine effects. (our half drow is now a soon to be daddy ).
All sex aside though, the BoEF has some great spells (not to mention a fairly good arcane prestige class) that should not be shunned based on the fact that they come from a spoofy material. (touch me not, and magic probe... great spells.) Though I'm a big fan of lust and innuendo, the flirting can get detailed but the actual act is a "fade to black" and roll the dice. Personally, I couldn't be a part of a campaign that didn't welcome all the emotions a person (or humaniod ) can have. To me, that's a slight cripple on the players experience and creativity.
Combat is great. Storyline is awesome... but watching your players become their PCs through their shared emotions... that's unforgettable.
(written by a female fan of hot chicks in armor)
I'm kind of amazed you got away with all that. That particular female player must have responded with some kind of consent--apparently things went okay with that. Of course everyone has their buttons and stuff, right, and some aren't affected by what others are.It's all her idea. She just told me it's how she was doing things. All I said was "Uh...Ok." It wasn't something surprising comming for this player.
Just realized you weren't responding to my post. sorry. my bad.
|
|
Sparingly. I've had players get the drop on one bad guy because he was in a compromising position...Unfortunately, that's a major factor why many players are horrified by the idea of a romantic liaison, in-game. So many see it as a way for the DM to 'get the drop on them'. You know the player type; they always have a readied weapon, they always sleep in their armour, they would 'always be ready for an attack', never be surprised, always 'would have cast' their defensive spells, etc...
Depending on the tone of the game, this may be rational! My players don't yet know it, but one of my campaign villains is about to go on the offensive against hem, big time. I'd LIKE them to be desperate and paranoid for a while.
Personally, I'm a very big fan of "interaction" campaigns. You know, the ones where you can spend your whole game night on meeting and interacting with the NPC's or eachother. Most of the great rpg moments I recall involve high emotions. For example, my namesake character in a campaign was assigned to work with a Scout NPC to protect the prince. Said NPC kept flirting with me, through we were great friends. A few months later in campaign, he died in a great showdown with an Orc Cheiftain during a war skirmish while I helped defend the castle. ( btw resurrection magic don't work in the campaign ). My DM had my superior inform me of his passing, and then the King of the land explained that the NPC was a runaway prince, that was getting together a marriage for us. Then the DM described the scence when I visited his body... ... I had to excuse myself and leave the room in real life.
Love and lust are strong motivators. My rpg group has made a habit of making disclaimers and ratings at the start of a campaign. That way, those that are uncomfortable can choose not to be apart of it. Because of my own preference for making the game "as real as possible" I welcome all emotions and strive to invoke them in my own campaign. I've found the BoEF to be a great guide, and a few of the players have read some of it for a guideline to their alignment's and race's view on sex and love.
They also understand the consequences. Most of the PC's have gotten some sweet affection, and I roll to determine effects. (our half drow is now a soon to be daddy ).
All sex aside though, the BoEF has some great spells (not to mention a fairly good arcane prestige class) that should not be shunned based on the fact that they come from a spoofy material. (touch me not, and magic probe... great spells.) Though I'm a big fan of lust and innuendo, the flirting can get detailed but the actual act is a "fade to black" and roll the dice. Personally, I couldn't be a part of a campaign that didn't welcome all the emotions a person (or humaniod ) can have. To me, that's a slight cripple on the players experience and creativity.
Combat is great. Storyline is awesome... but watching your players become their PCs through their shared emotions... that's unforgettable.
(written by a female fan of hot chicks in armor)
QFT
You are the female version of me...weird. :)
I have successfully transformed a number of hack n' slashers to immersion role-players via the way in which I manage the emotional and interpersonal elements of my campaign.
...my character in Heathy's pbp here has a girlfriend is he is desperate to get past first base with, but it is effectively an ongoing joke in the campaign rather than a heavy piece of roleplaying...Gittik ain't gonna get no sugar, till he gets somathat edju-ma-cayshun. Them clever gals like a guy what can talk all smart-like."YOU NO TALK ABOUT MY GIRL LIKE THAT!!"
HEY, THAT BE MY FACE!
Joking aside, the vast majority of the games i have run treat this topic with kid gloves. Definitly fade to black. Having only glanced through this book, it looks intresting for a 1to1 campain with my wife, but not likly to be used in a regular game.
My game is like real life in this aspect; if it get raw; it gets raw; it doesnt have to; but it exists; there is every kind of entertainment even stuff that makes the gm sick; but it exists and players can find it if they look; of course; in pbp; we keep it pg-13 and that stuff off screen; but at the home table; we have had some very wicked, erotic; sleezy; vile and everything else from time to time. We have had games where we all walk away very disturbed; we are not trying to push the envelope or anything; but it happens; and in the good guy game too; the evil guys take it all in stride and none of it entices them; weird.
In my game; power is everything; sex and lust are sources of power and control; ask any succubbi or their customers; The bad guys are trying to put chinks in your faith; in your armor; pull you down; this is just one way of doing it; anger is quicker; but lust is harder to repent. Greed works very well on some people; but as a gm it is often difficult to entice a character to fall, but easy to get the player to go for it; this is ever the problem.
So; I only use this sort of thing in the game if it is appropriate to the adventure.
As for roleplaying; well; I just ask a few basic questions; like limits and a few direct questions as appropriate; say with a vampire; you gonna do the deed? you gonna let it drink your blood; you gonna drink its blood; she/it offers x; do you? ; like that; whatever is appropriate. Peeps can then build their own narrative. I just want the facts. I only put it into short story form if the players want it; so is really player driven at this point.
I tend to like the Greek model; action like this takes place off stage most times; but; there is the occassional player who wants to tell you in detail what they are doing with that girl on the altar of Set; so when the statue of Set turns to look; your either doing something serious right or seriously wrong; or both.
heck; now my ears are burning; oh; wait; that is ok; am an efreeti
The bad guys are trying to put chinks in your faith; in your armor; pull you down; this is just one way of doing it; anger is quicker; but lust is harder to repent.
So true... just look at Guinevere and Lancelot....
Not only is it harder to repent, sometimes its just damaging. Novels (even rpg novels) are chock full of protagonists falling in love/lust and having it bit them in the behind later.
I remember a game my brother DM'd once. A NE spellcaster was very appealing to my NG character. I was torn as I watched him kill an ally... Do you save the ally at the expense of your lover's life.. or do you watch an innocent man die so you're lover can live?
My character ended up kneeling on the ground in despair. That was a great game night.
I have successfully transformed a number of hack n' slashers to immersion role-players via the way in which I manage the emotional and interpersonal elements of my campaign
Great Job! It seems that there is a lot of focus on the hack n' slash. (or maybe it's just my area). We need more gamers to be interested in Interactive games. They call it "roleplaying" after all.
<===Got laid in a Paizo messageboard pbp.
With a Briauer...
<===Got laid in a Paizo messageboard pbp.
With a Briauer...
sounds.. umm... .. Fun. In an enthusiastic surround sound sort of way.
<===Got laid in a Paizo messageboard pbp.
With a Briauer...
That's Bariaur woman. And don't say you didn't want it...
|
|
I have seen the book of Erotic Fantasy that was published and the fact of wasting skill points on a skill (Perform: Sex) I think is just ridiculous and a waste.Not sure Mothman would agree - check his page.
I have few skills. I need to talk up the ones I've got (and you know what they say about guys who need to talk about it). EDIT: ha! 10 ranks ... I'm probably talking myself up at least a little.