Repost.
Sorry to spam these threads like this, but I figure that I had best get my opinions in before Alpha 2 comes out and the boards are inundated with things about the other classes.
1. Weapon Training should give a +1 bonus to attack rolls and a +2 bonus to damage rolls. This serves two purposes. First, it fits with the Weapon Focus feat tree: +1 to-hit, +2 to damage. Secondly, it makes fighters that wear shields more viable--one of their biggest hindrances is their inability to do damage because of the 1-for-1 trade with Power Attack.
2. Damage reduction 5/- at level 19 is too little, too late for the fighter. This needs to be given out incrementally, probably with the armor training class feature.
3. Characters are still at a disadvantage for wearing heavy armor. In the grand scheme of things, that +3 to AC from wearing full plate doesn't matter that much compared to combat mobility. A mithril breastplate is light armor, and it's going to have an AC of 14 (5+5+4) versus the platemail's AC of 17. That's just not a big enough difference. I propose that damage reduction be incorporated into the armor training system:
--Wearing light armor grants a bonus of +1 AC and DR 1/- per armor training.
--Wearing medium armor grants a bonus of +1 AC and damage reduction 2/- per armor training.
--Wearing heavy armor grants a bonus of +1 AC and damage reduction 3/- per armor training.This way, the heavily armored dwarf will play differently from the fleet-of-foot fencer. (Maybe this should stack with adamantine?)
Aside from that, I'm loving the changes to the fighter. It makes the "new player-friendly class" viable for twenty levels. As a final thought: Should the armor training bonus apply to unarmored fighters wielding a shield? I would say "yes," but that's just me.
I do like your suggestions but I also have another point to add.
A fighter should have some fairly easy options to do stuff outside of fighting as well.
While it's not perfect, I like the ultimate fighter concept.
http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-169285
maybe a little bit of the conceptual design could help finish fleshing out the fighter to make it just a bit more awesome.
Hmm...I'll have to think about that.
Yes, let's screw light-armored fighters *even more*
Oh, and fix fighters by giving them slightly higher numbers.
Yes, let's screw light-armored fighters *even more*
Oh, and fix fighters by giving them slightly higher numbers.
Wait, so giving fighters free DR is "screwing" light-armored fighters?
(Jason, this is why I implore you to listen only to people who have a reasonable grasp of 3e's mechanics.)
Yes, I would rather have the weapons shrunk down into fewer groups.
I agree with all of that except one thing: Weapon Training should be +1 attack, +1d6/4 levels damage. Maybe +1d6/5 levels since it is an always-on effect...
Yes, let's screw light-armored fighters *even more*
Oh, and fix fighters by giving them slightly higher numbers.
Wait, so giving fighters free DR is "screwing" light-armored fighters?
(Jason, this is why I implore you to listen only to people who have a reasonable grasp of 3e's mechanics.)
Well, if DR is youidea for a big fix to fighters, then it's absurd to give three times as much of it to some fighters. I don't want full plate dwarves to be the only good fighters, and I don't think you do either.
DR 1 per Armor training adds up to, what, DR5 or something by level 20? I don't have my copy of alpha at hand, but that's not going to make a significant difference to play at those levels, nor will DR 1 when you first get it.
DR 12 or 15, or whatever you were giving heavy, actually is enough ot matter, though it will still hardly fix the fighter's problems by itself; high level fighters will still need abilities that let them *do* something.
Why arbitrarily kick light-armored ones off the level-appropriate ability train?
As I always said, MAKE ARMOR TRAINING IMPROVE MAX.DEX ASWELL!
As I always said, MAKE ARMOR TRAINING IMPROVE MAX.DEX AS WELL!
Only if you keep it at the +1 per 4-ish levels, please.
Cause full plate shouldn't be penalty-less until mid to high level.(( I have a home-brewed p-class that does this same thing over the course of several levels - lowering the check penalty and raising max dex. *grin* ))
I also disagree with the OP on a few things.
(( Actually, I see a lot of vitriol directed in the fighter's direction that I generally disagree with. *shrug* ))
1) Since WF and WS feat tracks still exist, keep it +1.
2) True, DR 5 isn't spectacular, but I'd rather not see it at lower levels since that would be stealing from the barbarian.
3) I think the above addresses this light-heavy imbalance concern, at least some.
I certainly don't like the notion that training would grant more or less DR based on armor type. Sure, materials do, but that's different.
-VIC