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Someone earlier mentioned a "5 Years Later" Legionaire Kent Shakespeare .
Here is a Bio on him, keep in mind when they introduced him, everyone just called him "Kent", the glasses and his powers of Strength and Invulnerability just screamed Superboy!!
His Legion codename was Impulse and he was also a Medical Expert, having spent most of his childhood in hospitals and filled a very needed role.
He is one forgotten Legionaire I would love to see return to the LSH.
Dark Lurker, I should be abple to post my collection Monday, whenI have a day off. I thought I would do it here in case others are similarly confused about re-boots, so expect a long post.
I doubt you'll get any takers on "who wants to be triplicate girl" mainly because her relations with computo are kinda sour over that "I killed one of her bodies thing". I actually prefer triplicate girl to duo damsel. Her power always seemed kinda weak to me so three bodies are better than one. So do you think Bouncing Boy preferred triplicate girl or duo damsel? Either way his hands were full.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Dark Lurker, I should be abple to post my collection Monday, whenI have a day off. I thought I would do it here in case others are similarly confused about re-boots, so expect a long post.
I doubt you'll get any takers on "who wants to be triplicate girl" mainly because her relations with computo are kinda sour over that "I killed one of her bodies thing". I actually prefer triplicate girl to duo damsel. Her power always seemed kinda weak to me so three bodies are better than one. So do you think Bouncing Boy preferred triplicate girl or duo damsel? Either way his hands were full.
Hmm, I think an adult joke about triplicate girl alone comes to mind, but I'll pass
I love both triplicate girl and duo damsel- I always thought she was a great character. I like the recent version of her the best though- an entire planet populated by one mutated Cargggite, and when three of her bodies go off world to interact with others, she is shunned once she returns. I thought that was a great story.
what would be wierd is if you loved tripicate girl, but not any of her incarnations or even wierder; just one of the incarnations and didnt really like or get along with the others. That would be a cool story twist.
has anyone ever stolen one of the girls clones/incarnations; whatever they are called; maybe mind controlled her and took her to some remote place; reprogrammer her or anything; hehe; this Efreet has some ideas :) and in my brainac incarnation I could put them into effect.
Ok Valegrim, your just twisted. Triplicate is a good friend of mine and she only out ranks me by getting her paperwork (electronic work) in before me by a few hours. I think she should be aware of your evil plotting.
Phantom Girl
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If I remember my LoSH history correctly. Triplicate Girl was actually three duplications from the same person, not really a clone, made from the original (whose name is escaping me right now). When an alien race came to their planet (which was populated by duplicates) three of them chose to explore the galaxy with these aliens. When they returned they were shunned by all the other duplicates and formed themself into one and left the planet.
Phantom Babygirl; dem girly types like twisted; yeah, gives and interesting grove; you think a girl who is a triplicate doesnt have some fairly far out thoughts; bet she can expand my database; wow, we could name each of her uhm selves yeah, wonder if they can all wear different outfits.....I mean that respectfully too; sincerly too.
yeah, I name each of them; then the longer they exist apppart the more individual ideas and perceptions they begin to coelate; wonder if there is a point where they can never rejoin...hmm, intersting equation to solve; must exprapolate from known data and project a probability curve. Query; are each of the selves in constant contact by some unknown means. Query; can the develop individualy or are they a sum total known my mortals as a hive mind. Query; can her ability to duplicate be expanded, if so, to what degree. Hypothesis: a high power probability generator could be constructed to boost her duplicate output; Query; can a duplicate be cloned.
Lol; I could so do this all day.
Well, Brainy, I didn't understand half of what you said, but I can tell you this...
In the current comic line, triplicate girl went on 3 dates at once. After three romantic outings, she arranged for all three of her persons to meet back at her quarters all at the same time. The guys were in for a shock and all went running for the hills when they ran into each other. And yes....I believe she had a different outfit on for each persona. I would say her "ideas" go a bit further than most.
As far a cloning is concerned, in issue #206 of Superboy starring the Legion of Super-Heroes, you cloned Invisible Kid and Ferro Lad and sent them to the 21st century where they met up with and saved Superboy. They didn't know they were clones though. Eventually the two returned to the 30th century hoping to rejoin the Legion. Upon arriving, their cells exploded. As you pointed out to Mon'el and Saturn Girl,
"That Two-day life span still flaws our clonging process for duplicating Legionnaires! As soon as 48 hours elapse, the duplicates cells inevitably explode! We couldn't tell them they were developed from living cells that Ferro Lad and Invisible Kid left behind before they died! No, the science of cloning is remarkable! We can examine the chromosomes of a single living cell. We'll keep trying!"
Turns out that Superboy created the robot to test out the heroic's of the clones.
Since Invisible Kid died in issue #203, for the life of me I can't understand how you managed to "grow" the clones so fast. I know it's the 31st century and all, but your good. So have you made any improvements since then?
Dark Lurker:
Ok, I got the Adventure comic stories which eventually turn into Superboy starring the Legion of Super-heroes, along with knowing about the spin off Karate Kid mag. from the 70's. These I picked up through the hardcover archive series. I'm ok with the original stuff. I'm also ok with the current series which has/just ended Supergirl. Other titles that I have where I begin to get confuses include:
Legion of Super-Heroes (from 1988, issues 45-49).
Tales of the Legion of Super-Heroes (1985, issues 319, 321-323)
The Legion (from 2002-2004 issues #3, #7-10, #13, #19, #24, #27, #29, 30-34.
L.E.G.I.O.N. 93 (1993, issue #50)
Legionnaires (from 1993, issue #1)
Legion of Super-Heroes (1973, issue #1, has reprint of old story from the 1960's
Legion of Super-Heroes (1984 (issues #4-10, 14)
Legion of Super-Heroes (2005 issue #1)
Superboy Future Tense part one of three 1995, issue 21)
The Brave and the Bold, The Lords of Luck (Hardcover 2007, appears to be a new story).
Action Comics (2007, issues 850, 858-859)
My understanding is this is a story including the original Legionnaires from the 1960's and 70's)
Justice League of America (2007, issues #8-10)
Supergirl vs. Karate Kid (2007, issues 21-22)
Graphic Novels:
Legion of Super-Heroes The Beginning of Tomorrow (1999)
Legion of Super-Heroes Death of a Dream (2005-2006)
Legion of Super Heroes Teenage Revolution (2004-2005)
The Legion Foundations (2003-2004)
Superboy's Legion (2001)
Teen Titans/Legion of Super-Heroes Universe Ablaze (2000, part 1-3 of 4 parts)
I have a few other things as well but I pretty much know what they are.
Here's what I'm wondering: Which of these titles go together as in continuing from a previous title? Which of these are reboots from the original series of Adventure Comics/Superboy starring the Legion of Super-Heroes? Which ones are re-boots and what is the basic difference between it and the original series? The graphic novels....how do they fit into the overal picture? Are they reprints of which comics? Are some stand alone stories? If so what comic do they tie back to? The Beginning of Tomorrow I thought was a reprint of the current re-boot but after looking at the date I don't think it is, is it? If I want to find the starting stories for the current re-boot does it appear in a graphic novel? I've also heard about the Darkseid Saga, which line of comics was this tied with? Also do you have any recommendations of Legion stories I have missed?
Anyway, hopefully you can help me out with some of this in order to make things easier for me to catch up on.
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Technically everything up to Zero Hour is one continuity.
The Regular LSH book became Tales of the Legion when the new Deluxe LSH book was released in 1984. Tales continued for a year and then started reprinting the deluxe book. See Here.
When the Legion books were cancelled and restarted, we have the "5 year gap" and this is what happened during those missing 5 years.
Next we have the "5 years later" LSH and the "Legionnaires" books. Issues #4-6 of LSH provide a major retcon that replaces Superboy with Valor and allows them to change any other past problems that show up. Here is the full run of "5 years later", "Legionnaires" and the Timber Wolf mini-series, at this site.
Now here is The Legion Wiki on the post Zero Hour legion or "Re-boot". This is where the boy/girl names were dropped, new legionnaires were introduced like Kinetix, Gates, XS and Monstress. Both books were cancelled and replaced with several mini-series; Legion Lost, Teen Titans/Legion crossover, Legion World, and The Legion.
Which then brings us to the "Three-boot" legion which is the curent version.
All of the Trade Paperbacks are reprints of other books.
The Great Darkness is the original LSH #290-294
The Beginning of Tomorrow is Re-boot LSH 0 62-65 and Legionnaires 0 19-22
Foundations is Reboot The Legion #25-30
Superboy's Legion is an Elseworld tale.
Here is the Legon Wiki link to the full Publication History of the LSH. Including spin-offs, Elseworld Legions, Reprints and the 20th century L.E.G.I.O.N.
Dark Lurker:
Thanks, this should help considerably. I saved all of your links under "favorites" on the computer for future reference. Thanks a bunch. A few questions for clarification...
What was the Deluxe LSH book you mentioned from 1984?
What was L.E.G.I.O.N. series, how many years of it, and was it the original Legion or a re-boot? Which one?
What exactly do they mean by post zero hour legion? Was this a rewriting of the Legion because of the outcome of the Crisis of the Infinite Universe story I have heard about? I understand they added new legionaires, are the old ones still actually the original characters or are they counterparts for some kind of parallel universe, or were they claiming at the time that the original Legion never existed or were clones of some kind? If so, clones of whom, which series?
How many years did the post zero hour legion run?
Is the Beginning of Tomorrow a graphic novel for the post zero hour legion?
Is the current series with Supergirl suppose to be the original legion or another parallel universe sort of thing?
I'm sure I'll have more questions to come in the upcoming months so hopefully you'll hang around this thread for awhle.
Now as mentioned, I am working on Legion of Super-Heroes RPG. The mechanics are just getting started. Have the base mechanic rules together but need to try them out as well as stats, and a few misc. rules/ideas.
I would like the overall game to be the original legion and not some afterthought, trying to fix things reboot of some kind. When deriving information from the comics obviously the archive books with Adventure and Superboy starring the Legion of Super-Heroes are good choices to take information from. From what I understood from you, also the Tales of the Legion of Super-Heroes were also part of the original series so I can take from that as well. I want names/costumes/homeworlds/etc. in my game to match the original characters. I want to be able to keep up with costume changes of the original characters in order to incorporate them into the game. I also want to be able to keep the original comic history of the characters the same and not mix and match these from other unoriginal characters. What other titles are original characters (or years of published comics which might be easier way to follow things)?
I know the characters were not well defined in the original series so I thought I would steal some ideas from the current series as well. What other series should I be reading to capture a lot of characterization or good 30th century technology feel from? I'm sure when I am done it will be a bit of this and bit of that but I don't want to go to far with mixing and matching from original to reboot unless they are the actual same characters and not some sort of parallel universe versions of those characters. Which titles or comic years should I avoid when putting the base game together?
Ultimetly, I would like to have a sourcebook for each reboot in order to play the different Legion eras/universe/whatever.
Recommendations....Feedback.....anyone!
Hmm. I have the 1993 Legion of Super Heroes DC/Mayfair RPG Sourcebook- it's great for having all the characters in it, but I really don't care for the system, I much prefer old school TSR Marvel Super Heroes system, which I still consider to be the pinnacle of super hero gaming, although I admit I don't really play with the charge/trip/whatever rules- attacks are either unarmed blunt, armed blunt, armed edged, or what have you.
I'm all for creating different versions of the Legion to suit different eras because as much as I love the Legion, the original stuff is just too hokey for me. Lightning Lad's arm bitten off by a space whale. A SPACE WHALE. Too much, even for me. Go with the sourcebooks for each imagining/era, I say.
Thanks for the support Freehold. I'm actually working on the rules right now...well was anyway, then I decided to talk to you. Currently working on the awards (experience aspect of the system), I have already developed the basis of the attack/damage rules; of coarse play testing them is another matter which I plan to do this weekend, that and Christmas shopping. I know of the book you speak of but can't seem to find it anywhere. I may have to go online to get it (new experience for me, never bought anything that way before....help....I'm scared!)
I have the Marvel game and played it a little bit when I was younger. My older brother was the game master (can't recall the actual title at the moment). This game is being designed strictly with the Legion in mind, not to say that one couldn't take the rules and use it for another game, superhero group, etc. it would just take some modifications.
I know I'll be pulling from pretty much the best of all Legion sources to make it work out. The basis of the game is different than most rpg's I have played. It is based more on team effort than individual rewards and character building. Each player is to pick out 3 Legionnaires and create one of their own. This will allow for small pocket groups like you see in the comics today as well as allow exposure of several Legionnaires. Most of the awards given out are applied to helping the group in battle and the Legion organization as a whole, such as creating new technologies, making contacts, affecting the storylines, that sort of thing. Personal awards are also given but they are secondary in the game. These are used to build up characters. Pesonal advancement is slow in order to keep the Legionnaires and villains pretty much at comic book level. The game is bent far more on roleplaying the characters than other games. I'm working in mechanics to retain the superhero roleplaying feel in order to avoid out of the game thinking and speaking.
I am looking for a GREAT word for the equvielant of skills (like in most games), the word should encompass things ranging from stealth to spacecraft technology and maneuvering. Any suggestions....... currently it's Accomplishments, but I'm not real sold on the word...seems to different.
The basis of the combat system resembles Marvel to a degree. I am going to try and use descriptive words for various levels of power/ability. One compares your die roll to the opponents by cross referencing the two. I intentionally chose not to look at the Marvel game because I don't want to copy it. I know this is where I got the descriptive word column idea though, it just seemed so superheroish, comicbookish. I'm guessing when I get far enough on it and then break open the Marvel game for some tidbits or find out that my ideas suck, I'll be disappointed in finding out they are to closely related. I hope not, I am trying pretty hard to be original (which is really difficult). There is only so much originality I can come up with. The attacks and defenses use one chart (the descriptive word chart). The challenges have a difficulty number to be reached in order to achieve success. I know these things have been done before but I don't know of a rpg that doesn't have these commonalities. Hopefully the inns and outs of the game will make it unique enough to enjoy.
I also have the ability scores (called chararacteristics and traits) figured out and thinly defined. Essentially their are 8 characteristics but each of those is divided into 3 traits, giving a total of 24 traits. Example:
COMBAT: This is the ability to physically battle opponents utilizing raw ability and training.
•Fighting: An individual’s raw and trained capability of attacking and defending in hand-to-hand combat.
•Agility: A measure of dexterous motions applied towards combat maneuvers and similarly dangerous actions.
•Aim: The ability to effectively direct a ranged attack at a target.
MIGHT: This is a measure of physical strength, energy release, and the absorption of physical damage. The traits are as follows:
•Strength: A measure of physical might as applied towards lifting and throwing.
•Energy: The amount of power generated from a specific energy.
•Toughness: The ability to absorb physical damage.
Anyway, I suppose nobody was all that interested anyway, sorry to have gone on.
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The Deluxe LSH book was stared in May 1984 to cash in on the comic book boom of the '80s. The upcoming "Eye for an Eye" trade paperback is issues #1-5 of this series.
The L.E.G.I.O.N. was a 20th century team created after the Invasion storyline. It was lead by Brainiac 2 and had Valor, Phantom Girl as the amnesiac Phase among other members. It was created to give the LSH a sense of legacy.
The "re-boot" or post zero hour was a complete re-write of the 30th century. Anti-time erased the future and replaced it with a different one. It started in August 1994 and continued till December 2004 when the curent "Three-boot" LSH started. They did get a cameo in Infinite Crisis where we see they are from Earth 247. The Beginning of Tomorrow is a reprint from this series.
"Is the current series with Supergirl suppose to be the original legion or another parallel universe sort of thing?"
Now that's a loaded question!
With the return of the original LSH in JLA/JSA/ Action comics, who knows? The upcoming JLA: Lightning Saga trade papeback will have the first half of this story. See here for more. The second half is hapening in the current Action comics.
With the realization that there are now 52 Earths in the multi-verse, wouldn't be surprised to see that all of these Legions exist in one of them.
Most likely;
Earth 1 = Original Legion
Earth 2 = Adult Legion
Earth 3 = Morduverse Dark Legion
Earth 5 = Reboot Legion (since it incudes Thunder)
How the current "Threeboot" fits will be interesting.
Over on the Mutants & Masterminds boards, The Atomic Think Tank, there is a section called Roll Call. Here people post write ups for new and existing heroes, including a few LSH write ups.
Thanks Dark Lurker, as always, informative. Very much appreciated, guess I'll buy you dinner some time.
Don't be afraid of buying things online. I've been there before, I have very keen memories of when I was new to it, but you'll get the hang of it. May I ask where you are procuring your stuff from? I might have a few pointers if it's ebay or something like that. I just wish I had an extra copy of my own marvel super heroes stuff- I'd gladly send it your way, but unfortuntately my older copy bit the dust quite some time ago, and I'm left with a only slightly mouldy copy of the player's, judges, and x-men sourcebooks.
Freehold:
Well I've got the marvel game and a couple of supplements, which I think include the powers book and a magic book of some sorts(not sure of the titles). It's your Legion book from DC/Mayfair games I would be interested in acquiring online. I had the marvel game for several years (acquired it when my brother died and his wife wanted to get rid of his gaming stuff). I do all my shopping at the Source Comics and Games in the Twin Cities. I looked for the Legion book but they didn't have it in the used section (although I didn't really expect to find it either).
I haven't ever made any online purchases so its all new to me. If you have any reccomendations or tips I'll be listening. I figure the DC/Mayfair Legion book might be a valuable insight on my home game. The marvel game I will break out when I get stuck or want to enhance the rules I have already developed. This weekend I hope will be the playtest of the basic combat rules. Looking good on paper doesn't always translate to good rules however, so we'll see what happens.
I have the complete marvel gaming encyclopedic set of all heroes and villians; is like 4 or 5 volumes i forget; is a great resource.
Damn, that's cool. What are in those books? Because I always wondered what Mr. Fantastic's Stats were in later editions- he was waaaaaaay underpowered in the original book, imho.
Still looking for a good word for skills in my Legion game. Need suggestions...skills range from stealth to spacecraft manuevering. Trying to make it super-hero/Legion sounding rather than generic like skills. Currently using the word "Accomplishments", but would like something a lot better. Suggestions...
Chris, thank you for the very generous offer. I live about 140 miles away from the cities, near Willmar/Marshal MN area. I work every other weekend, with each shift being over 12 hours long. Of coarse I work this upcoming weekened. Looks like your from Iowa, how far down do you live? If we could work out some other kind of arrangement I'd be thrilled. Any suggestions? Are you staying all weekend or into Monday? If your around Monday still I'd be free! Get back to me. And thanks again for the lovely offer!
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Chris, thank you for the very generous offer. I live about 140 miles away from the cities, near Willmar/Marshal MN area. I work every other weekend, with each shift being over 12 hours long. Of coarse I work this upcoming weekened. Looks like your from Iowa, how far down do you live? If we could work out some other kind of arrangement I'd be thrilled. Any suggestions? Are you staying all weekend or into Monday? If your around Monday still I'd be free! Get back to me. And thanks again for the lovely offer!Yeah, I'll be there New Years Eve. Drop me a note and we can do details. c.mortika@gmail.com.
Freehold DM:
Can you give me a rundown of the basic mechanics for the DC/Mayfair game? Never enough detail.
Just picked up the latest issue- damn, I love the Legion. Smashing art, good storyline, a little gritty for LoSH, but I like a bit of claret in my pulp. Good stuff.
As for what the DC system is like...well, as a friend of mine once said about computers, it's like a god of ancient mythology- a lot of rules and no mercy. There are nine stats split up to form a perfect square with three in each row and column. For example...
Str Int Vit
Dex Con Man
Wis Cha Spe
If it must be stated, I'm using completely made up terms here, as my book is nowhere near me- I'll post the real stats in the morning. You also added up each row and column to create 6 more stats that were used for opposed checks, I believe. For example, Str, Int and Vit would be added together to determine the Guts statistic, which was the basic difficulty it was to hurt you in combat. I do remember that there was a chart to go along with this to determine how hard who could hit what- kind of like Thac0, but i don't think it was easily memorized. Add a plethora of skills AND superhuman powers to the mix, and you had one confused system. Although I'm sure die-hard fans of the DC/Mayfair system found Marvel Super Heroes equally confusing...
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Chris, thank you for the very generous offer. I live about 140 miles away from the cities, near Willmar/Marshal MN area. I work every other weekend, with each shift being over 12 hours long. Of coarse I work this upcoming weekened. Looks like your from Iowa, how far down do you live? If we could work out some other kind of arrangement I'd be thrilled. Any suggestions? Are you staying all weekend or into Monday? If your around Monday still I'd be free! Get back to me. And thanks again for the lovely offer!
Hah...Minneapolis, made famous as the city of my birth.
My mom lived in Chaska, and my pappy come from Lake City.
Heath....I heard they drove you out of town because you kept waking people up in the middle of the night...howling at the moon. It was also why the Legion rejected you....any luck becoming a subsitute member?
Then you should know that unless you give up your ways of evil I must hunt you down like the dog that your are, capture you and send you to the prison planet. And don't even think about corrupting me...
Damn, that's cool. What are in those books? Because I always wondered what Mr. Fantastic's Stats were in later editions- he was waaaaaaay underpowered in the original book, imho.
well, the encyclopedic set has multiple stat lines for each hero or villian as applicable; so you have what would be their original stats and the stats during various points in their careers as well as orignial powers and growth of powers over time; so for example; if you turned to Iron Man; you have about 9 different versions of him from the grey suit to the golden avenger along with his hulk buster armor and a note on the thousand or so armors in the armory, but stats for the 9 basic ones are given. Each entry also has the creation story of the character and a synopsis of their life. It also lists things like wealth and allies, enemies and such as well are past and current group affiliations. Will try to look up Richards and see what it says.
Well, you could look at other games; rolemaster and space master have a ton of skills that have been well thought out; you might check these if you can, if not I can for you.
Still looking for a good word for skills in my Legion game. Need suggestions...skills range from stealth to spacecraft manuevering. Trying to make it super-hero/Legion sounding rather than generic like skills. Currently using the word "Accomplishments", but would like something a lot better. Suggestions...
hehe I loved the ambush bug; lot better than marvels impossible man.
Ambush Bug and the Legion of Substitute Heroes = Win!
...I'm just saying.
hehe in my incarnation as Brainiac; I would have to put together a logical arguement that putting Heathydog on the prison planet would cause the beginning of a cataclysmic event that would break the time/space continuim and lead to the marriage and spawning of kids between you o' prophetess and Lobo; surely a thing to be avoided.
hehe check out this site for fun:
http://www.lilithvonsilver.com/dolls/micro/heroes/legion2.htm
Ummm..ok so we have established that the dog is a little ruff around the colar and that it would be a bad idea. Besides, I've seen the future, and he would just be bringing me my slippers anyway.....boring!!!!
Valegrim, I don't have access to those games so any list of skill suggestions you send would be great. Still trying to find something that sounds 30th century/legion like....not skills, not Accomplishments, not thingies you can do....Help!
Although I did briefly consider "Thingies I can do better than you".
Ok you mangy mutt...I know just what to do with you. Out...out...out..you go. If your lucky I'll let you spend the night in the garage. And I am going to call the vet as well. Maybe if you are neutered you'll behave a bit better.
Oh, and yes we are Legion..but I thought you joined the villains?
The only weakness we have is showing mercy to villains like you.....oops!
Your threats are meaningless and empty, give up you evil ways.
Besides if you really want to play rough we'll get supergirl back from the 21st century. And I'm sure Brainiac 5 will know how to stop you as well. So you see....there is no plot horrible enough you can devise that will stop the Legion from keeping the 31st century safe.
You guys are just sore because you didn't make it into the Legion. Now I would suggest that since you both display the same super power that one of you reapply. Remember, by laws state that you must have a unique power, Superboy, Supergirl, Mon-el and Ultra Boy excluded.
Oh wait...your probably wondering what super power you guys display....how about "super complaining or super jealosy".
Brains; more brains; must see the super brains; ahem; sorry bout that; glitch in my programming; was channeling Uberzombie for a minute; reboot in progress; system up and optimal, new instructions; must order "special" flea collar for Heathydog; must tablulate and cross reference all laws with powers given; hmm; what is this pattern emerging....