Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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This is a very cool item, but my sense is that it is WAY undercosted. I also think that the incorporeal undead should get a save or something to avoid this.
Is this effect based on a spell or something already in the game? That's a good place to start digging deeper.
This is a super rad item.
BUT way undercosted. It is even better than a ghost touch item.
This thing doesnt just make incorporeal undead touchable in the radius of the light, it actually goes further and makes them NOT incorporeal, meaning they cant go into solid items, etc. That is way too much.
Now a ghost touch torch would be rad. But even that would cost more than listed.
This is an "I cant beleive no one thought of this before" kind of item.
Wolfie, did you read my post? Or just Eriks? I'd love your thoughts on my comparison to this being a super-ghost touch item.
Ok, I am revising my position on this.
It is still way undercosted (I think it should be around 9000 to 18,000).
But I really love its effect. It essentially removes the incorporeal template within its radius. I also like it uses wall of force in its description.'
This is a damn good item.
I gotta say, this is a totally heinous item to have in the players' hands if you're a DM. It essentially duplicates a (in my opinion) broken Spell Compendium spell.
Take a look at Ghost Trap. Level 6 clerical spell that has completely broken a couple of my combats. What the heck do you do with corporeal prismatic golems or thunder worms? 5 feet per level no cap AND no spell resistance AND no save?
At least the torch has a very limited radius.
Kobold Press
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Yep, definitely a case of accepting an item we knew wasn't balanced right. But the fact that it can be extinguished and it has limited radius both make it interesting.
The Top 32 items definitely aren't perfect. But we were judging on talent potential as well as mechanics, flavor, and adherence to the rules.
After skimming through the items I think this is my favorite. It makes me think back to classic D&D with how straight forward and functional it is. Regardless of the price the item deserves its praise. I will no doubt be using this in a dungeon delving campaign of mine. Might add a saving throw or something similar for the poor undead. Anyhow I really liked this item!
Good Luck to its creator!
I really like this item. It might work better as a magical oil that only burns for 1 minute, instead of 1 hour. The 1 hour duration basically makes it a WAND of Solidity, since very few combats last more than 10 or 12 rounds. Or a cool torch that burns hot and fast with a magnesium flame.
Well, I can see its problems, but I still like it a lot. I have a campaign where such an item would be simultaneously a blessing and a curse for PCs (because of the heavy interaction with incorporeal creatures involved)... I'd say keep the weapons and magic interaction aspect if you're going to cut back on the time so heavily, or make it so that some torches let you hit incorporeal creatures with weapons (but not magic) and others do the opposite.
now imagine a group of PCs having to choose, in the middle of a battle, which torch to light... heheheheh
Love this item. I'm glad it made the top 32.
I am so using this in my campaign.
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I think this item's pretty tasty, flavor-wise. And really, do Logue and Pett and the professional superstars get to submit items/modules/snuff fantasies without a development pass? If everyone turned in perfect copy (and I speak as a journalist who always appreciates an extra set of eyes), Erik and the other editors might be able to have lives, and the cosmos would crumble ...
RPG Superstar 2013
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Dedicated Voter Season 6, Dedicated Voter Season 7, Dedicated Voter Season 8, Star Voter Season 9
aka Steven T. Helt
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It is original, but I shy away from new undead killer items: the game has a crap load already. Plus, most incorporeal undead have that as their only relevant defense. Take the miss chance away from the vast majority of them and they almost become free eeps.
I also don't like items or spells that essentially remove one threat form a party. Grant, it is only one-use, but at its cost, it just sits in a bag and waits for some commoners to tell a good ghost story.
If the costing were fixed, I might feel better about it. I dunno.
Of course, some of these items we are all throwing our impressions at, while the judges had time to reveiw more items and come back. After i read the rest of the top 32, and some of the 'loser' items, I might feel better about this one.
Another obvious need filled, but does seem a bit overpowered. But not horribly given the requirements.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I agree on the affect being super-awesome for the cost, but I think actually the most broken part is the ability to douse it and relight it repeatedly. Incorporeal creatures are not that common unless your DM has a ghost fixation. One torch with an hour's duration would probably last an entire campaign with duration to spare.
If it's a single-use item, I think it's fine, though I would probably drop the duration to 1 minute.
P.S. On seeing the name I instantly knew what the item would do. Which makes it an excellent name for the item!
I had cost and mechanic issues with this from the moment I saw it but not enough to bother posting regarding it before reading all his posts that other Top 32 contestents who followed game mechanics weren't being original designers. Almost 12 hours before I posted regarding this item.
IMO it is a lot harder to design a Wow item that functions within the prescribed contest guidelines utilizing the game mechanics as per the SRD constraints that a player would want to have on his character sheet.
My real issue is this designer is very knowledgaeable regarding the game and game mechanics but completely ignoring the mechanics the game is based on.
Slipping unbalanced cool items into the game based on shoddy mechanics or mechanics that ignore standard mechanics is one of the main things that is breaking the game.
I wanted to be Wowed by 32 Items I would want to have on my character sheet utilizing the contest SRD parameters. I wanted to be Wowed by a RPG Superstar designers who could design within the parameters of the contest.
IMO a designer is Not being Creative when he says a spell that works in a specific manner in game works completely differently and produces a different effect just because he says so. That is just Bad Design.
IMO that isn't being creative and he was one of the worst failures in that regard.
The magic item is based on a Wall of Force but doesn't make a Wall of Force, for some reason it makes incorporeal creatures corporeal insteal of a fixed wall of force like normal.
He is basing his item on Wall of Force which lasts 1 round a level and with a CL- 9 that is 9 rounds. He gets to carry it around. Walls of Force aren't mobile.
A scroll of a level 5 Wall of Force costs 1,125 gp an Extended Wall of Force spell would be a level 6 spell costing 1,650 GP and lasting 18 rounds or possible learned as an "Original" spell under spell research.
Apply that mechanic again make the level 6 spell effect extended from 18 rounds to 36 rounds as a level 7 spell effct and we are still only up to 2,275 gp.
72 rounds as a level 8 original spell effect at 3,000 GP
144 rounds as a level 8 extended spell effect or level 9 original spell effect at 3,825 GP.
Now this isn't a scroll it is a Wondrous Item so you would normally do double the cost from 3,825 gp to 7,650 gp for a Wall of Force effect that lasts 144 rounds which is 24 minutes.
Now if we extend it again we are entering Epic terrritory as a level 10 spell effect lasting 288 rounds or 48 minutes and we are no longer in Wondrous Item territory so the item fails to meet the standard.
Lastly IMO the SRD effect this item should be based on would be something like Polymorph, Any Object a Transmutation spell
or a "Reversed" Etherealness spell (Level 9) but for what it is doing in game it is closer to a Mass Reversed Etherealness spell which for the purposes of this design competetion would be an Epic spell and an Epic Item and not a Wondrous Item.
I am very disappointed with this item after much thought it is probably the worst of the 32 Items IMO because the designer knew better.
Lastly this isn't a Ghost Touch effect on a single weapon because all the PCs weapons can hit now. It's like a super improved Mass Ghost Touch Effect for anything the PCs want to attack the undead with.
I think the wall of force is genius, since force effects are the only things that effect incorporeal subtypes and this item clearly needs a real hardcore force effect to achieve what it does.
Lets not forget the now corporeal undead can leave the area of the light or could simply choose to snuff it out or knock it out of the person's hands. Its just a lit torch.
Lets not forget the now corporeal undead can leave the area of the light or could simply choose to snuff it out or knock it out of the person's hands. Its just a lit torch.
I really have to disagree Clark. The undead isn't going to know what just made it corporeal and vulnerable to physical attacks from everyone and doubtful that it will realize that it just needs to steal a torch from a PC. By the time it realizes it needs to leave it will normally be dead before it gets the opportunity IMO that is basically a meaningless factor.
IMO the torch would be a really good design if the designer hadn't been limited to SRD content for his wondrous item for the contest and could have developed an appropiate spell to base the wondrous item off. IMO that isn't being creative saying a clearly defined D20 SRD spell like Wall of Force works completely differently than is stated in the D20 SRD.
IMO the torch would be a really good design if the designer hadn't been limited to SRD content for his wondrous item for the contest and could have developed an appropiate spell to base the wondrous item off. IMO that isn't being creative saying a clearly defined D20 SRD spell like Wall of Force works completely differently than is stated in the D20 SRD.
Its not a scroll of Wall of Force its a wonderous item that draws on the "Force" aspect of the spell. I think its logical and creative. If you went outside the SRD and made a similar spell and then had the torch duplicate it then again why not a scroll.
Have some imagination...
The Torch of Solidarity has been percolating in my brain. Being limited to SRD open game content spell constraints. The lowest cost mechanic I could find to apply the Torch of Solidarity would be to base it off the Limited Wish spell (normally 3,775 gp for a limited wish scroll) that would bring the cost down to around 7,500 gp as a one shot wondrous item useful for dealing with undead. Depending on how standard costing reduction rules would be applied it could be dropped a little more.
I picture this "encounter killer's" main use as a single use in a very dramatic scene. Like something from a movie, the hero is surrounded by a horde of ghosts and he suddenly pulls out the torch and walks out of the temple of doom. BUT THEN a ghost zooms in and knocks the torch out of his hand, it gutters for a few seconds and the ghosts howl with delight but the hero gets it started JUST IN TIME!
It's a planned use. Otherwise the group just carries it around, you never want to throw incorporeals at them because you know they'll just use the torch and if you never throw incorporeals at them then the players will know it's because they have the torch.
Made less powerful or used as I mentioned this would be great.
Like many before me, I like the torch, but am concerned about its power. If I were using this torch in my game, I'd probably limit its power by declaring that it can only be lit by using a normal, nonmagical flint and steel: "Magical flame interferes with its function". This would force the torch's owner to either carry it around lit or spend a full round lighting it.
As written, I'd never allow this. It can be used nearly forever, since "an hour" is really 600 rounds of combat. Chances of ever seeing an end to this (without using some method that could get rid of -any- magic item) are pretty slim.
That said, it is a really cool visiual, and could be fun for a few fights against specific bad guysd, In the end, I think I',m going tio create some incorporial undead that become solid in the light some some specific torch. Liek, a torch made with specific herbs, or specific wood. That way once the PCs discover the creature's vulnerability and quest for the materials for the torch, they can use it to find that one group of incorporeals and gain victory. Like needing silver against werewolves.
I like the concept but it is too powerful. Maybe if the radius is smaller. Atleast it is a torch so it can be extinguish.
You have a good imagination, it shows.
Like many before me, I like the torch, but am concerned about its power. If I were using this torch in my game, I'd probably limit its power by declaring that it can only be lit by using a normal, nonmagical flint and steel: "Magical flame interferes with its function". This would force the torch's owner to either carry it around lit or spend a full round lighting it.
I was thinking of something like this too, so that it wouldn't be just a wand of solidify with bunch of charges. If it is carried around lit, the item becomes relatively weak, if unlit there is still room for mayhem for first round or two...
