I'm so underwhelmed by what I've seen from the online Dragon and Dungeon so far. Actually, I can't tell the difference between what they're posting and what they used to post on their website before stealing the only magazines I looked forward to receiving in my mailbox every month.
Anyone think it's going to get better? Or is this it?
~shrugs~ One can hope. However, I have nothing to base my assumption on one way or another. I never signed up for the free stuff from WotC.
Clearly that haven't been getting ready for the new roll out (role out... haha get it?).
Underwhelming is overly complimentary, so far.
Well... just gonna wait and see.
KA
I too was looking forward to the conversion in Dungeon, but I just don't see myself running something that has the quality of the online articles I've seen for the last five years or so. I'm not saying that they're completely awful, I just think they're just not as good as the material that gets put out in book or magazine form.
I too was looking forward to the conversion in Dungeon, but I just don't see myself running something that has the quality of the online articles I've seen for the last five years or so. I'm not saying that they're completely awful, I just think they're just not as good as the material that gets put out in book or magazine form.
I wasn't looking forward to the conversion, for the same reasons you've mentioned.
IMO WotC's web offerings have ranged (with a few exceptions) from lackluster to lame. I see no reason to think they have more to offer now.
To be fair, Tsojcanth appears promising, but that says more about the author than WotC's publishing prowess.
Time will tell :/
Its one week later, and I'm still underwhelmed.
Its one week later, and I'm still underwhelmed.
Why are you underwhelmed?
No, I am not kidding. Saying one is "underwhelmed" by the current content adds nothing constructive to the discussion.
|
Point certainly taken, but
I think the Thread is not meant to make a point or add insight but rather serve as the poster's chance to vent a little. Sure, many of us are doing it --BUT NOT because everyone else is but because we really are upset, confused, underwhelmed, etc.
When I read the Tsojcanth "adventure" I enjoyed it somewhat but was left, frankly, underwhelmed. Those of us who are upset do like to see, and it's obviously not getting old for us, others who are equally upset.
-W. E. Ray
|
No, I am not kidding. Saying one is "underwhelmed" by the current content adds nothing constructive to the discussion.
He started the thread stating that he was underwhelmed and wondering if it would get better.
He chimed in after a week to note that so far, it hasn't gotten any better.
You want something constructive added to the discussion? Add it.
I judge articles on the basis of the quality of the writing and their utility (or potential utility) at the game table. Overall, I think that the quality of the writing has been very good, but some of the feature articles are lacking in utility from my perspective.
I bought the "Fortress of the Yuan-Ti" a few days before the web enhancement was released; seeing more encounters written by Ari Marmell was a nice little bonus for me and I liked the inclusion of full-color artwork in a supplement for a B&W module (and let me say, I think that the artwork in the e-magazines, especially Dragon has been outstanding).
"The Ecology of the Death Knight" was hobbled by the fact that it was largely trying to describe how the Death Knight would work in 4e without access to the actual mechanics; while I thought some of the new fluff had potential, I found that the actual article was interesting more because it showed the potential of a web-article instead of it's actual content.
"D&D 360" should probably have been released as a column instead of a feature (I generally judge columns on how well the author keeps my interest); it was a nice, quick read, nothing special.
"Dragons of Eberron: Dragon Hoards" was a nice plug and play utility feature whose usefulness is not restricted to Eberron campaigns. I particularly liked all of the detailed devoted to the art objects found in the sample hoards.
"Dragons of Eberron: Lethal Locations" the jewel so far (go Nick!), this is a great article especially for me since I really enjoy Eberron. I hadn't planned on buying anymore sourcebooks until 4e was released, but this article is seriously making me consider buying Dragons of Eberron. While relatively short, each place description was well written and just packed with details. Again, the artwork was top knotch!
"Infernal Aristocracy: The Dukes of Hell" was a good, solid article, though I have to admit, given the size of 3.x stat blocks you need to devote a considerable amount of pages to really get to the meat of high level opponents (something like the upcoming Demonicon of Iggwilv). That said, having the full stat blocks and historical summary of 5 Dukes would prove useful to anyone running a high-level, planar, or devil-centric campaign. I'm doing neither, so I ended up reading this one for my own enjoyment.
"Dragons of Eberron: Lethal Locations" the jewel so far (go Nick!), this is a great article especially for me since I really enjoy Eberron. I hadn't planned on buying anymore sourcebooks until 4e was released, but this article is seriously making me consider buying Dragons of Eberron. While relatively short, each place description was well written and just packed with details. Again, the artwork was top knotch!
Thanks Shroomy! :-)
I'm glad you dug the article, and I'm extra glad its free for everyone! Hell's Heart too! I'm gonna do my best to get a lot of licks in on DI while it's free for us Paizo folks to check out.
The book is actually really cool. Keith made sure of that, and I did my part the best I could. I wrote the entire Xen'drik chapter and some of the Argonessen chapter (there's PLENTY more of these locations in there too).
When does Dragons of Eberron come out? I was planning on buying it anyway.
When does Dragons of Eberron come out? I was planning on buying it anyway.
I think its on shelves in some places already. I know a few people have copies (not me yet...:-( ).
When does Dragons of Eberron come out? I was planning on buying it anyway.I think its on shelves in some places already. I know a few people have copies (not me yet...:-( ).
Sorry about you not having your copy yet. I will be on the lookout at my FLGS. BTW how is your wife doing and how is NYC treating you?
What Sharoth said (for both)
Sorry about you not having your copy yet. I will be on the lookout at my FLGS. BTW how is your wife doing and how is NYC treating you?When does Dragons of Eberron come out? I was planning on buying it anyway.I think its on shelves in some places already. I know a few people have copies (not me yet...:-( ).
Good! Well sorta...bedbugs...ugh. And still no gainful employ...but I hope to change that by next week. Otherwise can't complain.
I'll probably drop by Barnes and Nobles and flip through DoE tomorrow. Can't wait to see it! WotC used to send us contributor copies when Gwen was at the freelance helm (she was a very cool boss). I don't want to have to buy a copy of the book I worked on...so I'll just browse for now I guess.
Sorry about you not having your copy yet. I will be on the lookout at my FLGS. BTW how is your wife doing and how is NYC treating you?When does Dragons of Eberron come out? I was planning on buying it anyway.I think its on shelves in some places already. I know a few people have copies (not me yet...:-( ).Good! Well sorta...bedbugs...ugh. And still no gainful employ...but I hope to change that by next week. Otherwise can't complain.
I'll probably drop by Barnes and Nobles and flip through DoE tomorrow. Can't wait to see it! WotC used to send us contributor copies when Gwen was at the freelance helm (she was a very cool boss). I don't want to have to buy a copy of the book I worked on...so I'll just browse for now I guess.
Now, that's just crap! I bet some of the WotC big-wigs who didn't work on the book already have a free copy.
My main problem is that you can't download all the articles.
If a digital version exists, it's reproducible. Haven't bothered going over there yet to look at them, but off the top of my head, have you tried printing it as a .pdf?
How am I underwhelmed?
I am not satisfied with the quality of the product. It is not as well executed as the print magazines were, and I haven't enjoyed reading them. If this was meant to be a "teaser" for the DI, then maybe I could hold out my judgement, but I was given the impression that this is indeed what the final product is, and ever will be.
Do I really need to say more?
Unless I see some sort of substanial improvement in the articles, I have no intention of financially supporting the online versions of these magazines, and will take my money elsewhere.
And, to reiterate my original question: Is the current quality of what I see on the wizards of the coast site indicative of the future of these online magazines?
I'll probably drop by Barnes and Nobles and flip through DoE tomorrow. Can't wait to see it! WotC used to send us contributor copies when Gwen was at the freelance helm (she was a very cool boss). I don't want to have to buy a copy of the book I worked on...so I'll just browse for now I guess.
That underwhelms me, too.
Well, the upshot is that you ARE a contributor.
When will we see the other module scheduled for the October issue of Dungeon? I'd like to see what I thought about its execution before I passed judgement on the whole "magazine."
|
See here's the nothing.. NOTHING has changed. We're not seeing an influx of web conent. We're seeing nothing, a couple updates a month.
If Wizards wants me to pay for D&D Insider eventually, they're going to have to earn it, they haven't. I don't want a week... heck I don't want 2 or 3 days to go buy without Wizards putting content in the D&D section.
|
I liked Graz'zt Demonomicon and a few other columns, but I'm totally underwhelmed by the graphic aspect of the site in general, its organization, its "heaviness" for my computer, the bland, dull PDFs, and the overall quality of the articles (not because they're globally bad, but I expect much more for something I'd pay a subscription for).
This is simply not something I'd be willing to purchase, especially since it is virtual.
How am I underwhelmed?... I am not satisfied with the quality of the product. It is not as well executed as the print magazines were, and I haven't enjoyed reading them. If this was meant to be a "teaser" for the DI, then maybe I could hold out my judgement, but I was given the impression that this is indeed what the final product is, and ever will be.
Dungeon content is virtually nonexistent -- on October 30 the October issue consists of one adventure remake and four columns.
They're not even trying to impress us -- as far as I can tell, their marketing strategy is to monopoloze the 4/e market so that we have nowhere else to go.
Two days ago I was very skeptical about Paizo keeping 3.5 alive. Now I pray they do.
I don't think they'll put up much effort in Dragon/Dungeon until 4th ed is released, because really, 4th ed is in the scope, not some
e-zine material.
Now they are working virtually for free, so don't expect them to raise the bar anytime soon, and only thanks to the freelancer writers there are some materials on the site (which are great stuff by the way)...
I don't think they'll put up much effort in Dragon/Dungeon until 4th ed is released, because really, 4th ed is in the scope, not some e-zine material. Now they are working virtually for free, so don't expect them to raise the bar anytime soon, and only thanks to the freelancer writers there are some materials on the site (which are great stuff by the way)...
I agree. In the meantime, they're giving us every reason to think their products are crap -- because, so far, the Digital Initiative is. By the time 4/e comes out, I'll have tired of giving their stuff a look.
Don't they have a PR (or advertising) professional employed there?? It would've been better to let Paizo keep the license until 4/e actually released :/
It seems to me that if you are going to kill the print editions of the hobby's best known magazines, then you would want to wow people right out of the gate with the possibilities of what you can do online, and to help soothe the wounds of those of us who loved the printed issues.
I would have rather they not put anything out until they were ready to show me a superior product, even if it took a whole year to create.
|
|
Ok, its the 31st. end of the month. You know, the end of the month where will we finally be shown the inaugural issues of Dungeon and Dragon in their shiny new online format.
Where is part 4 of Tsojcanth?
Where is Logue's adventure?
Where is the compilation download file of the issue with "higher production values"?
Did Congress add an October 32nd that I am unaware of? if not, it would appear that they are missing their deadline.
( psst... do they know that an October issue should be released in October?)
EDIT: OK, Logue's adventure went up while i posted this at 5pm EST. still no sign of the others.
|
|
~shrugs~ One can hope. However, I have nothing to base my assumption on one way or another. I never signed up for the free stuff from WotC.
You never had to sign up for anything on their website before the DI. You just went to their site and clicked on what you wanted to look at. Those were the good old days.
|
|
They have a new "Dragon" article up on the WotC website - yet another "Confessions of..." article! Hooray! I missed the last new issue of Cosmo, so this is a welcome replacement.
Okay I know that this is a time of transition for WotC and they are still ironing out the kinks. I am SO disappointed in the compiled PDF issue!
Seriously, it looks like they hired some kid in high school to do the layout with MS Publisher. It's the same layout as the Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth was (ie., the old (but crappier) Dungeon layout.) As a graphic designer I feel a little insulted at the way the artwork was(n't) scaled correctly. If I were the illustrator, I would be none-too-happy in how they mangled my artwork. They seriously need to do better or their DI is gonna flop big time.
|
|
Let's hope it does flop. Of course, there are a number of WotC fanboys that would rave about anything WotC produced. If they made 4th edition into a fantasy version of candyland, they would go on an on about how awesome it was, buy several copies of it, and relentlessly attack anyone that made even a slightly negative comment about it.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
|
... Of course, there are a number of WotC fanboys that would rave about anything WotC produced. ...
It's fair to provide some perspective here, Corey. That's always been true, about Wizards, and about TSR before that. Somewhere in the dark heart of 1st and 2nd Edition AD&D, I admit, I was such a fan. I bought an amazing amount of drivel from TSR (Anybody need a D&D beach towel? Or, yes, Dragon Dice?) One of the store managers said that if TSR put out rat droppings, and marketed them as certified for otyugh dioramas, they'd sell like hotcakes.
|
|
The funny thing to me is that they didn't see this coming.
You take the extremely talented Paizo crew, and take the magazines away from them, what do you get? One adventure book per month, one stand-alone adventure per month, 1+ supplements per month, and a complete campaign setting within a year.
As Erik Mona said on another thread, making the magazine took a lot of time and effort. Now that the people who were working on the magazine are 'free' they can do a lot of other things. As much as I miss the magazines, I think Paizo would be crazy to go back to producing them considering how likely it is that they'd have to drop everything else.
So, WotC, who many of us suspect is releasing the new edition as a moneygrab anyway, is going to pull many of it's best people to put them on a magazine that's 'free' for the moment? Even though they don't have high production or distribution costs, I don't think they realized what a time sink it was.
The reasons they spun off their magazine division in the first place had a lot to do with being unable to manage the resources effectively. They lost their best talent at that time, and they're not going back to WotC to take over the DI.
So, I'm not surprised. Well, not about the quality. I'm surprised that WotC ever thought they would do anything that wasn't craptacular. I'm not surprised that they don't realize that what they have can be described that way.
if TSR put out rat droppings, and marketed them as certified for otyugh dioramas, they'd sell like hotcakes.And here I thought being undead made me immune to nausea....
In before Vomit Guy appearance! :D
-The Gneech
Bloooooorrrrrrph.