D) I require more information on 4E. As it stands I will use whatever rules Pathfinder bases itself off of.
B. I haven't even glanced at the 4.x edition stuff yet, and probably won't until I run out of things to do with 3.5 - and that'll take a while.
That pretty much sums up my feelings. I will consider converting to 4.x if I find something I want to run, or play in, that requires it. Until then, I'm running 3.5, and my next campaign will be core rules only.
If it turns out that 4.0 fixes things I am currently having problems with (this is wildly unlikely from the little I've heard), that would also cause me to consider changing.
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At this point 4e to me is a non-entity. I won't be able to completely ignore it, but I'll try. No interest whatsoever. I recently sent a list of the next 40 or so campaigns I have yet to run with 3.5 and my entire cadre of 12 players are totally on board and GLAD about that decision.
3.5 is still as new, fresh and fun as it was 7 years ago. And, as my good friend Bruce wrote me:
"Show me a 8th level fighter nervously continuing on the adventure with 5 hp left. Show me a wizard holding onto that lightening bolt spell because it is the last thing he has got and he doesn't want to waste it. Show me a cleric that when he heals you it is a thing of wonder. I want more of that back...not wiped away from memory."
-DM Jeff
At this point 4e to me is a non-entity. I won't be able to completely ignore it, but I'll try. No interest whatsoever. I recently sent a list of the next 40 or so campaigns I have yet to run with 3.5 and my entire cadre of 12 players are totally on board and GLAD about that decision.3.5 is still as new, fresh and fun as it was 7 years ago. And, as my good friend Bruce wrote me:
"Show me a 8th level fighter nervously continuing on the adventure with 5 hp left. Show me a wizard holding onto that lightening bolt spell because it is the last thing he has got and he doesn't want to waste it. Show me a cleric that when he heals you it is a thing of wonder. I want more of that back...not wiped away from memory."
-DM Jeff
I was originally going to buy the 4E core books and mine them for rules tweaks for my 3.5 game, but I've decided against that too. There is too much left to explore in the 3.5 rules to get a new ruleset now. (And that, coupled with the fact that so far I've liked a grand total of "1" change - it's not that hard a decision to make.)
C: Like many gaming circles, mine has already invested time and money into making D&D 3.5 edition the most accessible roleplaying game we play every Friday and Sunday night (yep, we're crazy). That said, many of the more current additions to 3.5 (namely, Tome of Battle) have had a serious impact on the gameplay of our D&D games. Some cry "broken!", others rave that they have never played a "fighter" in such an absolutely entertaining way. Considering that the material of Tome of Battle is set to have a big impact on the development of 4th Edition, it gives one pause to consider how that game will develop, based on one of its potential components. To this I say, if 4th Edition is indeed more fun to play--a decision I will likely come to only after having reviewed/tested the new core books--then would it not be a more enjoyable way to spend two out of seven nights of my week? But only time--and a high-quality product--will tell.
For my two cents, since I introduced the Age of Worms Adventure Path to my gaming circle over two years ago, enthusiasm for Paizo's products has grown beyond my expectations amongst my fellow roleplayers. As the quality of Dungeon and Dragon magazines remained strong, so to did the interest in the publications grow. Paizo's GameMastery Modules and Pathfinder have now stepped to the forefront of our gaming group, as guaranteed high-quality, imaginative, clever, and original new ways to enjoy our favorite game. Therefore, Paizo's choice as to whether they will continue to produce D&D OGL/3.5 material or 4th Ed material will have a direct influence on my fellow gamers' way they play D&D. Considering the confidence that Paizo has instilled in myself and so many others regarding making the right choices for the future of the RPG market, I will continue to maintain that confidence that Paizo will choose the more enjoyable of the two.
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B: for now.
As you might guess, Psionics plays a big role in my games an since once again psionics will be left out of the Playe's Hadbook and not addressed till 2009, I really can't switch over till then. Add to the fact that they are ruining the Forgotten Realms and delaying Eberron till 2009 as well, that also would limit my campaigns.
Another problem is that I have actually been using all the material WotC has released over the last year. I like that I can replace the musical Bard with the scholarly Archivist, the Jack of all trades Factotem or even my retooled Healer. I like having options, and one of the problems I see with 4E so far is that they are limiting your choices. They speak of 4 party roles, but what if my PC doesn't fit any of those?
I will still pick up the 4E PH, (damn Amazon and their Gold Box specials) but right now I am more likely to reto-fit into my 3e campaigns.
B) 3.5 or Bust! I'm sticking with the man what brought me.
At least for quite a while. We're only three-quarters of the way through 'Shackled City,' right now, and we're going to split my eight players into two groups for 'Age of Worms' and 'Savage Tide' after that. And I've got the Pathfinder books coming my way. I really don't have it in me to pay out - again - for books to do something we already enjoy doing.
Now, don't get me wrong. One of the nice things about managing a bookstore is that I can look at the books - so I'll certainly look at them. But I've got a lot of money and time already tied up into these wonderful Paizo campaigns, and I'm not going to switch to something that would require me to re-work those campaigns that work fine on their own.
So, given that I've nabbed all the Dungeons that had 3.0 or 3.5 adventures in them, and the adventure paths listed above, I have enough to keep playing onward and upward for years.
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If I had to decide it now, I'd stay with the 3.5 rules.
The arguments for this have already been posted by several people:
- not really impressed with announced changes
- lots of 3.5 stuff which hasn't been used yet
And I am really, really pleased with the 3.5 rules and don't think that any change is necessary. Sure, we have some house rules and we toyed with some of the variant rules options from UA, but we really like 3.5 and don't feel the urge to convert.
Maybe we'll change our minds when we've seen the real thing, but I doubt it.
They'd have to come up with really surprising and innovative changes to make me consider a conversion.
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Given what you know so far, are you planning to:
A) Convert! I am ready for a new D&D.
B) 3.5 or Bust! I'm sticking with the man what brought me.
C) We'll see. Need more information.
D) Other.
Please pick one. Feel free to elaborate, but please stick to one reply each for this thread. I'm not interested in fights or refutations of incorrect points or baiting or whatever.
I want to know how you, at this moment in time, feel about the idea of converting to a new edition of the game.
I expect that people's answers will change over time. This is not the last time I will ask this question, so we'll have a chance to gauge the issue as we go along.
So, given what you know so far, you plan to: _______________.
C for now.
Like a lot of other DMs here in this thread I have enough material to keep my and my players busy for 3 to 5 years. (RotRL,AoW,Eberron homebrew,Iron Kingdoms Homebrew, oh and DragonLance War of the Lance) No one in my group seems particularly excited about 4.0, including me. Plus I am still excited about 3.5 and all the options it provides (even if some of those options are not optimal). This is the most important part to me, being excited about my hobby.
I am not a fanboy nor am I a hater of 4.0. Rules are just a framework I use to create a story in a world my players get to effect, experience, and hopefully enjoy. Right now I can do that with 3.5. I have played every incarnation of D&D to date, with a ton of different people. My observation is that its not the rule system that makes players unable to wait for the next game session. Its the stories, their characters, and the good times they have at table every week.
So for now we will stick with 3.5. I will read the 4.0 SRD and I will most likely pick up the 4.0 books from Amazon at a deep discount like I always do. And if Paizo shifts to 4.0 I will retro fit the modules for 3.5 play until I have made a decision.
As for the information that is being released by WotC about 4.0, some of it sounds really good, like extending the sweet spot for the player experience, Skills, and the modifications to Action Points. Other concepts like D&Di seem useless to me (gotta have a hardcopy), especially the online play (cute, but useless). Plus I am not excited about every 'non-campaign' book being considered Core (sept 15th podcast).
Initially my impression was that 4.0 is meant to renew WotC's revenue stream. The Dragon and Dungeon magazine license expiration a 'complete product control' issue. To date I have not been able to completely shake these feelings, I understand these decisions from a business standpoint but that does lessen the bad taste I am left with.
But, current opinions aside, in the end if 4.0 is a BETTER system and makes the game more FUN and EXCITING, I will shift no matter what.
Well there is my 2 cents.
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C. Wait and see.
I'll continue to play 3.5 until the new books arrive, and I'll even buy the new books so I can read them myself. I want product in hand (like my magazines used to be) before I make a decision to change. I know my wife is going to be terribly disappointed though, if she can't convert her sorcerer/elemental savant/eldritch knight. I'm sure I'll have to work with her on that, including some tweaks by rule #0.
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So, given what you know so far, you plan to: D) Other.
I'll look at the 4th Core books, but I've got to much invested in my books to start collecting them all over again. I hear the rumors that 3.5 will not covert to 4th because of so many fundamental changes. I doubt I'll be subscribing to the Insider on the WOTC site, because it exceeds the expendable income limit I've set for my self. Dungeon & Dragon were good buys, because I could save the magazines, and look at them whenever I wanted. Now I'll have to print what I want, and I can't afford that. OK, I'll stop now before this becomes a full blown rant and I offend.
Option C
Too little information about the new system to really make an informed decision. They haven't given any concrete reasons why a new system is needed yet (beyond grappling being difficult to run).
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Given what you know so far, are you planning to:
A) Convert! I am ready for a new D&D.
B) 3.5 or Bust! I'm sticking with the man what brought me.
C) We'll see. Need more information.
D) Other.
D/ Will buy the three core books of 4E, and will most likely pillage them for 3.5 houserules.
Unless I find 4E truly breath-taking and convert (possible but not likely at this moment).
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D. I, like many others, have a ton of material for 3.5, and as I still don't even have a group to use it with and I'd really like to get some use out of it without having to perform some conversions, I don't see myself actually playing 4e for quite some time, unless I find someone else who's planning to run it. However, I will probably pick up the core books shortly upon release.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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"Show me a 8th level fighter nervously continuing on the adventure with 5 hp left. Show me a wizard holding onto that lightening bolt spell because it is the last thing he has got and he doesn't want to waste it. Show me a cleric that when he heals you it is a thing of wonder. I want more of that back...not wiped away from memory."-DM Jeff
I'm so stealing that line for my e-mail sig
I plan to switch over to 4E. I respect the creators and editors at Paizo enough to still check out their product offering if it remains 3.5, but it is doubtful that I would buy very much of it.
FYI for demographics purposes- I'm 34 with expanding family responsibilities. I seek to keep gaming expenditures under $50/month. My Pathfinder subscription is a 'conversion' through issue 8. The ~$20/month expenditure following that period will have to compete very hard for my gaming dollar.
Sorry for the grim reality. I do wish Paizo the best of luck and will give your product a heavier respect against competitors as the quality is high.
Definitely C.
I will almost definitely purchase the 4.0 core books. (at least the _first_ MM, PHB and DMG) However, depending on what Paizo does, they may languish on my shelf. As I stated in the other thread, as goes Paizo, so go I.
Given what you know so far, are you planning to:
A) Convert! I am ready for a new D&D.
B) 3.5 or Bust! I'm sticking with the man what brought me.
C) We'll see. Need more information.
D) Other.
...
I am going with Option B. I am not particularly impressed with much of the 4e pre-release information. From a rules perspective, I loathe the concept of player versions of monster races, instead of common rules. From a setting perspective, I am not enthusastic with the planar changes, which strike me as needlessly simple and bland-- I just see no need to abandon all the eccentricies which help define the feel of D&D. From a delivery perspective I do not like the plans for the focus on miniatures and annual core book updates. From a financial perspective, I have lots invested in the current edition, and having no reverse compatibility drives me batty-- that would even have turned me away from 3.5.
That said, I will likely be dragged there by some of the guys in my game group that seem to like what they see. I would guess that I will run 3.5 and they will run 4e. So make of that what you will. :/
EDIT: FWIW, I thought I would show the breakdown of my group on the issue right now:
Me: 3.5 forever!
KW: 3.5 forever!
BP: 4e, baby!
MD: 4e, baby!
plus 3 more undecided or not talking about it, but one of those guys never buys books anyway.
My takeaway is that there is not a huge demand for a new edition from the current customer base, but rather a big 'wait and see' attitude. I guess WOTC adding new customers is part of the strategy so that might work, or maybe folks will get more excited when it is released. I dunno.
D) Other.
So, given what you know so far, you plan to: _______________.
I don't really know if I'll EVENTUALLY convert, but as the DM of two groups I know I'll stick with 3.5 for a little while still (1 or 2 years, at least, after the release of 4th ed.) Even my players seem to have no interest in converting, so I have nothing to urge me.
B
I myself might pick up the core books or i might not but my group will not be switching. and i mayself have so much stuff i have yet to even get to use i'll be a few months for i even get to try and get pathfinder game going so we'll stay with 3e and truthy be told we're not even fully converted to 3.5 if that tells u anything
Chiming in for a second time:
I had a dream last night that companies such as Paizo continued to put out 3.5 material, and the scene stayed vibrant and alive. I saw myself opening a glossy new textbook full of great art, new spells, philosophies, prestige classes, and monsters.
There is such a wealth of culture and creative brilliance already established I'm becoming quite sure, based on all I've seen regarding 4th edition, that I'll be staying with the present system. Just because D&D is what I've always played does not mean I have to stay allegiant to a parent (company) that no longer cares about me or my cute little stuffed animals (sacred cows). I've got a little thing called self respect (and a big thing called glandaconda... unzip and delight).
There is an enormous market share to be had here for those companies brave enough to tackle a future 3.5 product line head on. I solemnly swear to give them scads o' cash.
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I had a dream last night that companies such as Paizo continued to put out 3.5 material, and the scene stayed vibrant and alive. I saw myself opening a glossy new textbook full of great art, new spells, philosophies, prestige classes, and monsters.
*wipes a tear from my eye*
That is such a beautiful thing...I'm with ya. I'm with ya.
I've got a little thing called self respect (and a big thing called glandaconda... unzip and delight).
*Then backs away slowly*
Why can't I just leave the tender moment alone? (cues harmonica solo)
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B with a side order of C. I have plenty of material to last me through to the next revision in 2011.
Reasons for B:
-I have 3.5 already. 4th costs money.
-I understand 3.5 already. 4th is a new game.
-I like 3.5 already. 4th might not be as good.
-Paizo is publishing 4-5 campaigns worth of material (including Gamesmastery, natch) in 3.5. At the moment, they have plans for 0 4th Edition games.
Reasons for C:
-You'll note that two of the above reasons are irrefutable, but two are subject to change. 4th Edition might walk my dog and massage my back. Who doesn't want a game system that does that? Until I know for sure, however, I'm sitting pretty with some great 3.5 material.
Why can't I just leave the tender moment alone? (cues harmonica solo)
~hugs the little wolf~ I'll hug him, and squeeze him, and love him, and call him George! ~looks at the crushed wolf~ George? George?
I'll be keeping an open mind, but am in no rush to run out- it'll be at least winter 2009 before I think of getting the core 4th ed books. And unless they come up with something very special, I won't be expanding beyond that. Been there, bought the library.
~hugs the little wolf~ I'll hug him, and squeeze him, and love him, and call him George! ~looks at the crushed wolf~ George? George?
S'okay. I regenerate some. That pelvis is never going to be the same though. It's double-jointed, which is bizarre considering its previous lack of joints.
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Given what you know so far, are you planning to:
A) Convert! I am ready for a new D&D.
B) 3.5 or Bust! I'm sticking with the man what brought me.
C) We'll see. Need more information.
D) Other.
Please pick one. Feel free to elaborate, but please stick to one reply each for this thread. I'm not interested in fights or refutations of incorrect points or baiting or whatever.
I want to know how you, at this moment in time, feel about the idea of converting to a new edition of the game.
I expect that people's answers will change over time. This is not the last time I will ask this question, so we'll have a chance to gauge the issue as we go along.
So, given what you know so far, you plan to: _______________.
Option C, read the 4.0 SRD, when it's available then decide but until then keep running 3.5, pathfinder etc.
Most likely from what I'm seeing so far I'll stick with 3.5, I enjoy the current rules system.
Hey Erik! Put me down for:
B) 3.5 or Bust! I'm sticking with the man what brought me.
PS: Shocking how few people have chosen option A... This doesn't bode well for 4th edition. Muwahahahahahahaha!
Given what you know so far, are you planning to:
A) Convert! I am ready for a new D&D.
B) 3.5 or Bust! I'm sticking with the man what brought me.
C) We'll see. Need more information.
D) Other.
So, given what you know so far, you plan to: _______________.
B) Stick with 3.5.
My players and I are no longer in any position in our lives to learn a new game and/or take the time to convert rules backwards (or forwards for that matter). (Our 3e purchases, though, are stronger than ever when it comes to adventure material.)
B) 3.5 or Bust! I'm sticking with the man what brought me.
We were almost unanimous as a group in having no interest in 4.0. Our group is a little larger than most, 14 regulars and 7 occassional players that mix & match for different, simultaneous campaigns & games. Out of 21 players only 1 showed any interest at all in 'checking it out'.
Don't get me wrong, most of the group isn't against 4.0 at all. We have invested a lot of time & money into 3.5 and estimate that between what we have yet to play through, & what we can create ourselves using the 3.5 materials we're set for life. We enjoy 3.5 immensely, are comfortable with the system, and have players willing to try their hand at DM'ing who haven't before (3 of us share the DM'ing duties, myself mainly up until this year).
So my vote is 'B', but with an open mind to "let 4.0 live, and take gamers where it may". We're just happy with 3.5 is all.
J-
Me and my gaming group haven´t shown any interest in 4.0 so far. We prefer to stick to 3.5 for a (long) while because we feel this system works pretty well and there is no need for a change. This said, I have to select b as my only possible option.
daedel, el azote.
B.
If anyone were planning to release an actual version of Dungeons & Dragons using the "4e" rules, I'd be in category C with regards to that game. But it doesn't seem as if anyone's going to do so.
Have to say "B" for now.
I've been DMing for nearly two decades now and my group of loyal players and I have always followed along with each new and "improved" edition of the game(though we nearly always lag behind a year or two or four). Some of my crew are avid collectors and our campaign has never lacked for books or supplements for each edition. Not only have we invested great sums of money, but also hours and days of time learning each new system and invariably creating dozens of house rules to fix what was so obviously broken in each system.
Don't get me wrong - we've had a blast along the way. D&D has been a strong bond between us for years. But each time there was more of that feeling of, "Am I being had?" in the backs of our heads. We've wondered a few times what really motivates these new editions -- especially when they seem to follow so closely on one another. Is it pure greed or is it a quest for the best game possible within the genre? I hope it is a mix of the two as I feel the game has improved but you also have to take into account that considering that D&D is "all in our imaginations," it has proven to be a pretty expensive game over the years. Maybe not on par with golf, paintball, or today's video game systems and games, but still . . .
So back to the point -- I'm getting another year or two out of 3.5 before I'll even consider 4.0. And like many have already said, by then it will be 4.5 or 4.75 or 4.99 or something like that.
Of course, as you can see by my attached head shot, I have to get all my books and dice in braille so I guess it is a bit more spendy for me. ;-p
C. I am very optimistic about 4th ed and will certainly buy the core books when they come out, but the core books does not a vibrant campaign make. I am hoping paizo and the other companies that offer accessories will be pulled in to help give story options in the first quarter that the new edition is released. I believe the dozens of designers that suppliment what WotC can accomplish on their own will be critical to making 4th edition a strong success rather than a slow, gradual build up of conversions. A couple of adventures on the WotC Dungeon website is not likely to cut it.
It seems likely we will switch to 4th edition but I am in the wait and see camp right now since there are so few details short of teasers. I have played D&D for 30 years and many of my current group are not far behind. Many of them have been talking about changing to other games entirely but ultimately we will wait and see the new rules. I do think though that if the new rules are not to our liking my group may agitate to switch games altogether.
Goo
Given what you know so far, are you planning to:
A) Convert! I am ready for a new D&D.
B) 3.5 or Bust! I'm sticking with the man what brought me.
C) We'll see. Need more information.
D) Other.
Please pick one. Feel free to elaborate, but please stick to one reply each for this thread. I'm not interested in fights or refutations of incorrect points or baiting or whatever.
I want to know how you, at this moment in time, feel about the idea of converting to a new edition of the game.
I expect that people's answers will change over time. This is not the last time I will ask this question, so we'll have a chance to gauge the issue as we go along.
So, given what you know so far, you plan to: _______________.
C) We'll see. Need more information.
Almost everyone in my current group is of the same mind. One guy is refusing to even consider switching to 4e. The rest of us haven't seen enough to make a decision.
I've heard things about 4e that I like, and I've heard things I don't like. This isn't all that different from how I feel about 3e or 3.5- I like some things, and dislike others.
When the time comes, I will take a look at D&D 4e and make my decision.
Randy
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I am securely in the B column - I'm staying 3.5, and so does most of my group feel that way (there's one person who tends to buy everything he can get his hands on, and says he will buy the 4ed core books anyway, even though the rest of the group has pretty much said we're staying 3.5). And in another thread I have already promised to buy a subscription to Pathfinder the same day I hear that Paizo commits to staying 3.5 and not going 4.0 as well.
The rules, what we know of them, anyway, of 4e are so different that the company has said you cannot convert a campaign to them from 3.5. That sounds like a whole new system to me. If some other company was coming out with a new ruleset, we wouldn't even consider it because we're happy with D&D right now. Just because it's the same company, WotC, who are producing this totally new and different set of rules, some people think that it's a logical upgrade. It's a totally different system, just with the same name.
The more I hear of the new rules, the less I like them. Granted we don't know the whole story yet, but don't you think that the first things that would be "leaked" or whatever would be those things that would generate the most interest and greatest excitement about the system so as to keep people positive and hopeful for the new rules?
Then we look at the official settings... Eberron was told "we're advancing your timeline 2 years" and the fans screamed. The company said, "really, if you feel that strongly, then we won't do it." I don't play Eberron (the setting doesn't appeal to me). I play Forgotten Realms. It seems that the folks at WotC chose to destroy the FR as their sandbox for the 4e ruleset. The setting I enjoy is going to be so different in a 10-year timeline advancement (officially) that I won't enjoy it anymore. My opinion - they should have invented a new world for their 4e sandbox. As for Greyhawk, it seems that they've totally ignored its existence in 4e for all the mention it's gotten - they even are taking Living Greyhawk out of commission.
So.. the setting I enjoy is at an end with the invention of 4e, the setting I don't like is going to carry on as it always has, apparently, and the generic setting is disappearing. Why would I bother to buy 4e books? Even in a homebrew world, unless I want it to undergo the same apocalyptic changes that the FR needed to experience to cram it into their new rules then chances are the mechanics are not compatible with how things work in my homebrew. I guess I'm just not willing to start all over and dump everything I've got now - which includes fluff that up until 3.5 was always very portable from previous editions. They've also ensured that the fluff from previous editions is nearly useless in a current-timeline 4e FR. By changing the FR the way they did (and then with Rich Baker being so snide and arrogant about the whole thing), I won't even consider 4e as a game system. I have no reason to.
Is 3.5 perfect? Nope. Name one system that is. The group of people I game with seem to enjoy the rules for 3.5, and now that we are faced with a non-moving target that won't have books coming out next month that introduce a new mechanic or override old mechanics we can sit down and get some meaningful house rules written up - or hopefully rely on Paizo to take on the mantle of 3.x leader and produce a nice 3.P version. :)
If you've read all of this, I'm impressed. :) To end off with where I began, I'll be in the B camp with staying with 3.5.
I'll be 3.5ing out existing campaigns, and probably when starting a new one and all the new core books are out, converting.
Despite the volumes of protest each time, that's what most people did with 2e, 3e, 3.5e... I've got a bunch of stuff from each of those editions, but ultimately the upgrade was worth it. There's some retarded aspects of what I've heard from 4e but the base of it - Star Wars Saga, Book of Nine Swords - have been great.
That would be B and D for me.
I'm DMing a 3.5 campaign that is not going to change for quite a few years.
I'm playing in a C&C game.
The team for both campaigns is mostly the same, just one is without girlfriends or wives (guys' game) and the other is all together (family game).