Or is it more the sum of your gaming experience and media intake (books, movies, etc)? What made you decide to take up the DMing role? Is the DMG a huge part of how you "roll", or just a handy reference?
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
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Or is it more the sum of your gaming experience and media intake (books, movies, etc)? What made you decide to take up the DMing role? Is the DMG a huge part of how you "roll", or just a handy reference?
I learned everything I needed to be a successful DM before I ever even SAW the DMG. For me, it's a 'handy resourse.' Others may think differently. 90% of the stuff you NEED to run D&D can be found in the PHB. The other 10% can be played by ear.
Or is it more the sum of your gaming experience and media intake (books, movies, etc)? What made you decide to take up the DMing role? Is the DMG a huge part of how you "roll", or just a handy reference?
I started my D&D career by just picking up the core books (this was back in 2nd ed.), rounding up a couple of friends, and just stumbling through sessions.
Although the DMG was my original mentor, it took many years of gaming to really develop the skill and knowledge to run successful games.
Do what! Theres a guide?
Elcian
I started on my own, without a group; the DMG is what got me started and allowed me to be a decent DM to the group of inexperienced players I found later. That said, only actual gamming experience allows one to grow into a good DM, not reading rulebooks, advice books, or splatbooks.
I'll be sitting in the "big" chair once Pathfinder comes out. I have perused the DMG, and as I think it will be handy as far as using it for a few references, most of my confidence in taking over the job comes from my experience as a player and having the PHB practically memorized.
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I think you can learn to be a good DM by: reading voraciously, everything you can get your hands on; write, write, write, write, write, whether you're any good or not; watch movies and dramas closely for the details of story, flow and presentation, plot development; watch someone else DM, several people, if possible.
Another thing I do, write down the likely turns your players will take and rehearse what you'll say. The better you tell the story, the less the story really matters. Wherever you play the session, if you can outfit the area to promote storytelling, great! Usually, bare white walls, or a card table beside the car in the garage, or the cafe where everyone else's conversations drown out yours, just don't cut the mustard...
As to the DMG question: If everyone is following the 'rules,' only the DM will ever see or read the DMG...which means you can, uh...wing it. ;-)
In my recollection DMG II is a lot better teacher of how to run an interesting game. The first DMG just doesn't give enough solid advice on making a game fun.
Great responses, keep em coming :)
The first 3.0 game I ran, I hadn't played DnD in 6-7 years, and all we had was a borrowed PHB. BEST. GAME. EVAR. Ok, not really, but the sense of derring do, flying by the seat of the pants and making it up as I went along got me hooked again.
Like every other DM here I think its pretty much a handy reference. I mean I use its rules and all just like I (more or less) used the rules from previous editions but knowing the rules - while a damn good idea, is not really what DMing is all about.
So why is the DMG, seemingly by design, so much different to the PHB? Just thinking out loud here :)
I think it would be foolish not to use it as a resource, since time at the gaming table is precious.
I started playing with 2nd Ed. but I honestly learned more about the craft by later reading the 1st Ed. DM Guide. I also really liked West End Games' Gamemaster Handbook (2nd Ed.) for their Star Wars RPG - the opposite of the current D&D DM Guide, that book was all about the craft and very very little about stats.
But I learned the most from other DMs. There were three notable and talented Dungeon Masters in my life. No others have come close to that kind of magic. So if you find a good one, hang on.
In my recollection DMG II is a lot better teacher of how to run an interesting game. The first DMG just doesn't give enough solid advice on making a game fun.
Yay! So few people appreciate the fluff that is abundant in the DMG2. I love that book even more than the DMG!
And to answer the original question, as long as you have the rules in the PHB, you actually could run a game without the DMG. There are a few useful tables for XP and treasure, but if you do them free-form, you really don't need too much.
Oh, and magic items are in the DMG too...so that's kinda important.
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DMG II is great, certainly, but it is the DMG 3.0 that is where I'd send a new DM -- then the DMG II. DMG 3.0 is the best D&D book ever written!
As you all recall, the 3.0 DMG actually has its first few chapters about DMing theory and adventure/campaign design. Meanwhile the DMG 3.5 is the biggest piece of sh!t ever made because it took ALL the good stuff never before put in a book and deleted it. I have not nor will ever buy that mangy, heslut trash DMG 3.5!
Um, but yeah, you can get the theory behind good DMing from the DMG 3.0 and then the DMG II -- after that I'd go to the 2E Monstrous Compendium -- the ecologies and societal structures are extremely great -- and then 3E's Unearthed Arcana. Those are the 4 books every DM should use.
-W. E. Ray
Actually, I learned more about good DMing from Dragon magazine than anywhere else. No help there...
It seems to me the current DMG was made because they had several rules that just wouldn't fit into the PHB and because of tradition. I use it almost exclusively for the magic items, xp table, traps, and adventure-making mechanics, but very little else.
For a new DM, I'd recommend mastering the rules, buying every old Dragon magazine available, playing the game with experienced players (if possible), and of course, all the stuff mentioned above ('specially the stuff about reading and writing.)
Go get Zen and the Art of Dungeon Mastering - read it, learn it, love it. :)
Maybe I'm just weird, but ...
I think the Monster Manual (and of course, subsequent game-play experience) is the best teacher for DMing. The MM is where the rubber meets the road, as it were.
Sure, there are a lot of interesting encounters that can be created without monsters, especially those that involve environmental hazards, traps and NPCs, and the DMG details them.
But for learning the game, and seeing how the raw numbers translates into game play, and how the players react to those challenges -- nothing beats the MM.
I'll now return this program to its regularly scheduled DMGII love fest. :)
I think Dungeons and Dragons for Dummies and Dming for Dummies are good too. The 3.0 DMG did a much better job of teaching DMing than 3.5, The DMG II was pretty good as well like Logue said. Check them out. Look for the 3.0 DMG in a used bookstore, I found a couple in great shape for 5 bucks each.
Beginning adventures can save your cookie too. The Crucible of Freya by Necromancer games is awesome, Dungeon #114 "The Mad Gods Key" is super fun, the Forge of Fury and the Sunless Citidel by WotC and check out the Red Hand of Doom as well for an idea of higher level play and settings. Start small and work up!
I love Dming, I hope you are able to find joy in it too.
DMG is typically the single dullest book to read for D&D. That said it is a good reference guide, but hardly contains everything you'd need to DM. I haven't read the DMG2 yet, and quite possibly may not for a while. But you guys do have me interested now.
My groups and our various DMs read voraciously. That said we compare running a game to a book or movie. We try to immerse the players in the world with enough detail to visualize it, but not enough to bore them to tears.
We also watch what the others did. What did we like that they do? What do we not like? What do they do better than me as a DM? How are they doing it better? Once we started this, even our terrible DM started to get better as we swapped the role around and he got to see people actually ENJOYING the game again.
1e AD&D DMG helped me a lot.
While one could learn to Dm from the DMG (and while the DMG2 is invaluable for the newish DM), this is not the best way to learn.
The best way to learn to DM is at the feet of a DM who himself is really good at what he does.
Being a great DM is an artform (one that I haven't mastered). Being a competetant DM is a job (it takes work andc dedication). You need imagination, patience, timing, good interpersonal skills, the ability to act a number of different parts, and the ability to balance everything nicely. The DMG doesn't give you any of that, but is also an invaluable resource.
Sorry if I have repeated anything other people have said. I'm in a rush!
I'll have to go re-read my 3.0 DMG, I ignored it almost as much as my 3.5 :) So DMG II is a good investment?
I'll have to go re-read my 3.0 DMG, I ignored it almost as much as my 3.5 :) So DMG II is a good investment?
Depends how experienced a DM you are. Fairly new DMs will glean a huge amount of useful information. Very experienced DMs will find a lot of the information to be stuff they've seen before, in Dragon magazine, in the excellent "Campaign Sourcebook and Catacomb Guide" (for 2nd Edition), and elsewhere.
No matter how experienced you are, there are number of fairly meaty things you can use... but I felt that these alone didn't quite justify the purchase price.
I agree with most of what's been said above. There are many ways to become a good DM.
But one of the best ways, in my experience, is listening to your players. Find out what they like. If you try and run a game your way, and only your way, then no matter how good your skills are, you'll never run a good game.
All in all, I think I've had the most fun as a DM when I stopped trying to play against my players and started playing with them. For example, if one of my PC's really wants to do something really different, instead of immediately saying "No, that doesn't exist in my world", I take a moment to see if I can shoehorn it in somewhere. If I can think of a decent way, then I let him go for it. Why not?
And I, in general, suck as a DM, because I never have time to prep and have to make up a lot of stuff during the game - generally forgetting half of the stuff an NPC can do until after the battle. But we always seem to have fun.
Greg
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I've come to understand there are really three topics here:
*Basic Procedures for Not Being a Stinky DM*
There are problems: rail-roading, favoritism, getting angry with players, getting lost in the rules minutae over and over, ... that all Dungeon Masters should learn to avoid.
*Adventure and Campaign Design Skills*
Lots of DM's are perfectly good at running people through pre-written adventures in pre-fab campaign settings, and giving players a good time, but who don't understand design.
Contrariwise, I've seen DMs with mediocre table skills who have a gift for designing adventures tailor-made to their PC's back-stories and aspirations.
*The Qualities of a Great DM*
These people are individualistic and quirky. I've played under people who have particular strengths (bringing scores of NPCs to life, developing fiendish campaign arcs that take years to unfurl, making everyone feel like they're having the most fun they've ever had, setting up memorable scenes...) that they've honed.
I agree with most of what's been said above. There are many ways to become a good DM.
But one of the best ways, in my experience, is listening to your players.
I have to second this. Perhaps the single most important bit of advice I got from Dragon, the 1e DMG, other DMs, or any other source is: if it doesn't work for your group, don't do it.
While good DMing involves lots of different elements, at the core it's simply a matter of relating to other people. Jason Nelson-Brown's writings on the WotC website are invaluable for a new DM, as are the works of John Maxwell (though Maxwell's writings will need to be adapted a bit for use in roleplaying games).
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DMGII review:
But one of the best ways, in my experience, is listening to your players. Find out what they like. Greg
Yes, this is what the DMGII helps with. It gives a handful of generalizations for differing player wants, ie., what different kinds of players enjoy experiencing on game night. And though it does a mediocre job of analyzing these, and giving brief advice on how to keep these player wants in mind during the session, it helps you consider several different view points on how to have fun and is a spectacular staring point for the discussion Greg H sagely recommends.
Of course, these are just generalizations, but they are enough to get you thinking about how to make each gamer, including the DM, satisfied. It also lays out and defines many things we've always known about peripherally and intangably, ie., it gives a concrete way to articulate gaming concepts we've never articulated before -- similar to the DMG's definition of meta game knowledge and verisimilitude (although Cook gives an unfortunately inaccurate explanation of verisimilitude).
-W. E. Ray
1e AD&D DMG helped me a lot.Um, F2K, this is tongue in cheek right, not foot in mouth?
peace,
W. E. Ray
No, I'm not kidding. The advice Gary Gygax gave on not running a Monty Haul campaign and keeping it believable even when it is fantasy was good stuff. Of course, back then Dragon magazine ran regular feature articles on how to be a good DM (I remember some really good articles by Lewis Pulsipher--whatever happened to him?) and that tied into the ole' DMG quite well.
I'll have to go re-read my 3.0 DMG, I ignored it almost as much as my 3.5 :) So DMG II is a good investment?Depends how experienced a DM you are. Fairly new DMs will glean a huge amount of useful information. Very experienced DMs will find a lot of the information to be stuff they've seen before, in Dragon magazine, in the excellent "Campaign Sourcebook and Catacomb Guide" (for 2nd Edition), and elsewhere.
No matter how experienced you are, there are number of fairly meaty things you can use... but I felt that these alone didn't quite justify the purchase price.
I think a good 'philosophy of being a DM' type book is a great leg up on being a good DM. But 15 such 'philosophy' type books don't help more then 1 (so long as the material is well presented and good). In my case the 'Catacomb Guide' was really a fantastic source book for me.
Now I was already an experienced DM by the time I read it and I certianly did not agree with every piece of advice in it but it got me thinking about each issue presented and if I did not agree then I at least understood why I did not agree with the advice given. For me the DMG II was enjoyable but I found it most interesting for the pieces of advice it gave that where diametrically opposed to what had come out in the Catacombs book in 2nd edition. Its always interesting to see how the philosophy of DMing changes over the years.
I think the DMG II could be a very good book for some DMs - maybe especially if one has not really encountered anything like it before (and therefore not really considered what it is you believe in regards to DMing). One does not have to neccisarly be a beginner DM for this sort of thing to be useful but if you pick up the book and consider it a rehash of stuff you have seen before and have therefore have already thought about and come to more or less set opinions regarding then its hardly critical. It'd still be a nicer refresher book however. I find I review it every so often even if I'm just skimming it trying to make sure that I'm not getting set in my ways regarding some kind of bad habit.
DMGII review:
Yes, this is what the DMGII helps with. It gives a handful of generalizations for differing player wants, ie., what different kinds of players enjoy experiencing on game night. And though it does a mediocre job of analyzing these, and giving brief advice on how to keep these player wants in mind during the session, it helps you consider several different view points on how to have fun and is a spectacular staring point for the discussion Greg H sagely recommends.
Why do you consider the analysis mediocre as opposed to either good or bad?
Personally I found the material here kind of interesting ... but almost off topic for me. Honestly I don't really design my adventures conidering what it is the players want and then trying to meet each such goal every night. I mean thier going to chalk full of loot and XP of course and that kind of covers the #1 motivation for most players. Otherwise I have found that, as long as I work on keeping the adventures themselves full of interesting stuff and try and maintain internal consistency most of the time most players will manage to get what it is out of a session.
The DMG II does cover some interesting issues regarding certian types of problem players but - for me anyway - I have dealt with that by taking a very adversiarial role. The players are a team and the DM (me) is the evil one behind the screen. By keeping the players working together and against me I insure that they don't get out of hand and start working at cross purposes against each other - a situation which, in my experience, can really lead to intra-party feuds, hurt feelings etc. It also means that I run a tough game and if you think the DM is out to get you, well you'd be right. I put little skull stickers on my DM screen everytime I waste a player. Needless to say come game night their watching each others back and are too busy battling the adventure to battle each other. Of course D&D is a rigged game, the vast majority of the time the players win the fight or overcome the challange - I spend a lot of time hamming up my frustration that my latest plot has to kill them has been foiled while threatening them with promises that I'll get them next time.
Or is it more the sum of your gaming experience and media intake (books, movies, etc)? What made you decide to take up the DMing role? Is the DMG a huge part of how you "roll", or just a handy reference?
The PHB, DMG, and MM (and any supplements you wish to use) are tool-sets. Even the "How to DM" references are only useful as advice. The only way to learn to be a DM is to be a DM!
For those that wish to start along the path of being a DM, the best advice is not about the rules:
#1) Read more than roleplaying books; current events, history, literature, SF/Fantasy novels (not the RPG ones, either), etc. give you a ton of ideas and concepts to apply to a campaign or adventure. Steal events, organizations, cultures, personalities, etc., rename them, and tweak them to the adventure/campaign. For a DM, like a writer, 90+% of the work is fitting together already existing concepts/ideas/etc. in an interesting way. The more concepts/ideas/etc. you are familiar with, the more textured and "living" your adventure or campaign can be.
#2) Practice, practice, practice. As you gain experience, you will develop your own style and build your skills. You will also develop a library of developed material over the course of multiple adventures and campaigns that can be re-used (see #1).
As to why I took on the DM role, I do #1 anyway and also tend to study the rules system in use to understand how to translate concepts/ideas/etc. into rules mechanics. As a DM, I was able to work on translating concepts/ideas/etc. on a much broader scale. Presentation I needed practice on, though. By this point, I'm usually one of the most experienced gamers in a group, so I'll DM if no one else wants to (or trade off with other people). Most DMs like playing, too!
Way back then, I started with a d10, a d4, and the adventure module B1:'In Search of the Unknown'... I had no clue what I was doing. The only thing I knew about D&D was when I saw a small group play during recess when I was in 6th grade. So I desperately tried to immitate that. When I finally got the 1st edition DM guide (a few YEARS after I started), I found it to be priceless.
Initially, I think it just takes a spark of the imagination and the will to tell a story. I've been DMing for about 25 years now, and I can say, without a doubt, that it is INSPIRATION that makes a good DM, not the mechanics or even the type of game you play.
So, it could be an idea you've had, a book you've read, a movie you've seen, or even just a picture in a magazine (like say, a Map of Mystery) and voilà!
Inspiration folks!! And these message boards are filled with folks that inspire me! So, I figure, that I'm a better DM because of all of you!
Thanks!
Ultradan
The for dummies book is good and will get you started.
The DMG II has lots of good advice.
Robin's Laws is an excellent book for any GM.
Yes, you can. It has all the information you need to play. Putting it into effect will depend upon your individual skills and abilities, with time these will develope and grow.
Well, I haven't actually read through the DMG, not like it was a book...it is a reference guide for me.
What i know of DMing I have picked up from variety of sources, bunch of games, magazines and whatnot...and besides that it is practice, practice, practice. All fresh DMs will be struggling, especially if their experience in gaming in general is limited. Many of them grow to be better eventually.
The soon-to-be late Dungeon magazine.
Since I started recieving Dungeon, I feel my DMing and comprehension of the game and my philosophy towards it has improved wildly. To see how the "pros" write and outline adventures, to see their ideas, their inspiration, and how they manage to cram "awesome" into everything. Not to mention the Dungeoncraft articles in the back. Additionally, simply discussing various issues and being a long-time reader of the boards here at Paizo has given me a great deal of insight into what it means to be a good DM.
The best way to learn anything (DMing, cooking, painting, tennis, building birdhouses) is to just get in there and try it and don't be afraid of making mistakes. A book like the DMG is more of an aid or reference guide in those pursuits. The DMG 2 has been helpful to me, especially with the Saltmarsh write-up as a great example of how to write a strong setting with lots of hooks. But, like most other posters, I agree that one can't replace the learning process of just making mistakes, taking criticism and trying to improve.
And having fun doing so. That's important, too.
What helped me more than the DMG was having our group's previous DM playing while I was DM-ing. He was quite open to me taking him aside and saying, "Okay, what do I do with this?" or "How would you rule on this?" Now, after a year of DM-ing every Friday night and every other Sunday, I rarely have to ask him anything.
I also really liked DMG II. Lots of good ideas there.
--Fang
D&D for dummies is a good book to check out for new players and DMs.
I'm telling the advice in that book is good.
Can you learn to be a DM from the DMG?
No more than you can learn to drive a car by reading the owner’s manual. The book provides information only, not practical application. You can learn what DM’ing entails, but learning how to do it requires that you actually do it.
What made you decide to take up the DMing role?
A friend of mine and I talked long and deeply about this. We came up with the basic answer that there are two basic types of gamer: 1) those who want to experience the story, to be there and do, see and feel the story from the inside…and 2) those who want to know all the answers, see all the behind-the-scenes SFX, tell the story, etc. Kind of like the difference between actors and directors. One can do the other’s job, and sometimes even do. But some prefer one over the other. I’m a behind-the-scenes kind of guy for the most part.
Is the DMG a huge part of how you "roll", or just a handy reference?
For me, it’s both. I’m not going to try to learn that entire chunk of material, verbatim, cover to cover, so as a reference it’s unbeatable, but it’s also an important tool in game scenario development. Keeping it handy and going over it during scenario development helps keep me focused and away from the tendency to do things that might violate game concept, balance, essential mechanics, etc.
i learned to draw by redrawing comic books. by seeing how arms and legs positioned in different ways relationships and ratios. i did the same for dming i baught a few pregenerated adventures and saw how stories were paced, story boarded, advanced... it also helps take the preasure off some. using someone elses story that is already together gives you the chance to sharpen your skills on the little details that "make a dm" once your comfortable running an adventure then pick up the DMG. read the chapters on drowning, weather, little things like that will not only give you lots of ideas for challenges but also ad realism and individualism to your adventure.
some advice i would have for new dm's. 1. dont give your players everything they want. at first its a lot of fun creating power characters but it gets boring, for you and them, just mowing over everyting in your path 2. dont be affraid to kill them. you want them to have fun. but you want to have fun too and its you versus them. i have forgotten so many characters over the years but the ones that died are always with me (i miss you garlak) 3. pick up some ecologies. paizo has put out some awsome material. reading even one creature ecology will spark dozens fo ideas. who would have known the weak kobald stereotype was acctually a kobald conspiracy to hide a powerfull culture of clever and deadly enemies.
finally one last plug Red Hand of Doom is an INCREDIBLE example of how to string challenges into and adventure you will never forget (i want to play part four over and over..."congradulations you finished part four of the adventure. now before we move on to part five, roll up some new characters were doing it agian"
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The soon-to-be late Dungeon magazine.
Since I started recieving Dungeon, I feel my DMing and comprehension of the game and my philosophy towards it has improved wildly. To see how the "pros" write and outline adventures, to see their ideas, their inspiration, and how they manage to cram "awesome" into everything. Not to mention the Dungeoncraft articles in the back. Additionally, simply discussing various issues and being a long-time reader of the boards here at Paizo has given me a great deal of insight into what it means to be a good DM.
Exactly the same for me.
To the questions at hand:
Can you learn to be a DM from the DMG?
Yes, you can, but it is rather a tool box. And you still have to ponder how to apply it, how to best appeal to your players' demands. It sounds simple, but if both you and your fellow players are content after a role playing session, then you did a great job.
Or is it more the sum of your gaming experience and media intake (books, movies, etc)? What made you decide to take up the DMing role?
I was the one who persuaded people to play D&D so I had to DM right from the start. By then I didn't have any D&D experience. I felt that I lacked the skills, but my players didn't know D&D either, so I DMed published adventures as well as possible, and adhered any tips of the authours' closely. And my players were happy, even though these adventures were more monster bashing than actual roleplaying.
Much later I got to know and experience other DMs and found out that they also just "use water for cooking" [<--germanism alert].
Movies and books are only a help in so far as I borrow from them in terms of plot or npc characterization. But NPC impersonation is one of the things I still have to learn most about... ;-)
The good thing about DMing is that you experience success very early, but you never stop learning to improve your skills.
Is the DMG a huge part of how you "roll", or just a handy reference?
Just a reference.
As mentioned above:
- DMG II,
- Dungeoncraft articles from Dungeon,
- websites and online ressources like
- GiantITP.com,
- TreasureTables.org,
- RoleplayingTips.com,
- Zen and the Art of DMing (of 2nd edition times, but still a great ressource!),
- these message boards,
- and of course reading adventures, adventures, and even more adventures
Greetings,
Günther
Hey now, don't link Martin Ralya's dungeonmastering blog without giving mine a mention too: Jonathan Drain's D20 Source.