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Three things:
First, working in a customer-facing job for a large corporation, I do understand how everything you say to the press has to be pre-approved by PR folks.
Second, I am going to be subscribed to Pathfinder.
Third, I probably won't subscribe to "Dragon Online" or "Dungeon Online."
that's all I have to say about this.
I am indeed funny, but not as funny as your unwarranted sense of superiority.Bluntly, get over yourself. You and others overreacted to a fairly mild comment. And this debate is old, in so may ways. If you can't handle being called a geek or nerd without blowing your top, I suggest you try and find a different hobby - it goes with the territory.
Don't assume people don't "get it" just because we disagree with you. We all "get it" - we wouldn't be on these boards if we didn't care about D&D, Dungeon and Dragon. Some of us, however, take a reasonably pragmatic view that nothing lasts for ever, the future holds opportunites as well as obstacles, and you need to accept things as they are rather than rail at the world because it isn't as you would like it to be. It's called life experience.
Am I being patronising? Absolutely.
Whoah... where in the Nine Hells are you coming from with this?
First, I know I am a geek. I'm a geek and I'm proud of that title. I wasn't even aware that my feelings toward my own geekhood were a matter of debate until you brought it up.
Second, in regards to some people not "getting it" I was referring to the particular phrase from a previous quote, "It's just a couple of magazines going online." No. It is more than just "a couple of magazines going online." It's the end of a long-running tradition, and the end of the magazine which brought me into D&D. I have a right to mourn, and to defend said lament.
Lastly, in regards to your suggestion that I "need to accept things as they are rather than rail at the world because it isn't as [I] would like it to be", you might stop to consider that many great things have been accomplished throughout history by just a few people who were angry as hell. Pardon me for thinking there's a better alternative to simple complacency.
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I am indeed funny, but not as funny as your unwarranted sense of superiority.Bluntly, get over yourself. You and others overreacted to a fairly mild comment. And this debate is old, in so may ways. If you can't handle being called a geek or nerd without blowing your top, I suggest you try and find a different hobby - it goes with the territory.
Don't assume people don't "get it" just because we disagree with you. We all "get it" - we wouldn't be on these boards if we didn't care about D&D, Dungeon and Dragon. Some of us, however, take a reasonably pragmatic view that nothing lasts for ever, the future holds opportunites as well as obstacles, and you need to accept things as they are rather than rail at the world because it isn't as you would like it to be. It's called life experience.
Am I being patronising? Absolutely.
I have no problem with the "geek" or "nerd" thing.
What does get me is being told to get over it allready. Like there's something inherently flawed with my emotional response. I'm sorry, I'm entitled to my emotional responses right up to the point where the men in white come to take me away in a funny jacket. I'll accept it when I accept it, and I don't need a funny box person on the internet to tell me when to accept it or not.I'll get over it when I get over it. And I don't know if it's idealistic, but I'm in the camp that says like Yogi Barra: "it aint over til it's over."
And no, you are not being patronizing. If you're over it, good for you. I for one am still pissed, but I'm to the point where I can avoid being an ass about it.
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I'd never say I was happy about what has happened. While I am sure Pathfinder and the Gamemaster modules will be great, I would stil vastly prefer Dungeon to be being pumped out by the Paizo crew who made it, frankly, bloody brilliant (Dragon bothers me considerably less). But it isn't going to be like that. I think that Wizards are being a bit petty, and have handled the whole thing rather badly.
But I also think that hurling insults at people (and I know you would never do that, Heathy, this isn't aimed at you as I am sure you are aware) who aren't beating their breasts about the whole thing is a totally inappropriate response. If you look at PsychoticWarrior's posts (by clicking on his name) you can see he is all about getting back issues of the mags - he/she cares, any idiot can see that. The whole "God I hate Wizards" thing should be over - it has happened. And, frankly, they are just magazines; they will be replaced with two other things, the Wizards effort which will be of unknown quality, and Pathfinder. It might even be better (Pathfinder, anyway).
So while it is clear that this is not an ideal situation, I do think that the hot air now needs to cool down. So the comments weren't aimed at you, or anyone who can express themselves on this subject without turning nasty.
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Lastly, in regards to your suggestion that I "need to accept things as they are rather than rail at the world because it isn't as [I] would like it to be", you might stop to consider that many great things have been accomplished throughout history by just a few people who were angry as hell. Pardon me for thinking there's a better alternative to simple complacency.
Yeah, accepted, but this probably isn't one of them. And getting angry as hell about the cancellation of Dungeon and Dragon isn't quite the same as campaigning for world justice, democracy and a cure for AIDS.
Like the Warrior, I have been getting these magazines for 20 years. In a sense, you have been spoiled a bit, because under Erik and James these magazines have been the best they have ever been. There were times when they weren't, to be frank, though not recently. So while I accept that they are a sad loss, I am aware that nothing is perfect. Times change and people move on - even I was considering cancelling my subscription to Dragon because I have been finding it boring lately, while thinking that Dungeon is at its absolute peak. Tradition is great, but quality is the key.
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I know exactly what you are talking about--there used to be some real stinkers. And I agree; Erik and James must have something to do with the fact that these magazines are the best they have ever been.
So, of course, let's just shut them down and replace them with an online digital initiative.
See, that's my main problem with the U.S.A. The Greeks used to believe in arete, in excellence in every endeavor. We in the U.S.A. couldn't give a rat's tail about arete. It's all about the almighty dollar.
I know there are bigger problems in the world, but I also see this one as a symptom of one of those big problems.
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I know exactly what you are talking about--there used to be some real stinkers. And I agree; Erik and James must have something to do with the fact that these magazines are the best they have ever been.
So, of course, let's just shut them down and replace them with an online digital initiative.
See, that's my main problem with the U.S.A. The Greeks used to believe in arete, in excellence in every endeavor. We in the U.S.A. couldn't give a rat's tail about arete. It's all about the almighty dollar.
I know there are bigger problems in the world, but I also see this one as a symptom of one of those big problems.
Well, that is capitalism for you - gives us a nice standard of living in the West, but screws up our roleplaying magazines.
Well, that is capitalism for you - gives us a nice standard of living in the West, but screws up out roleplaying magazines.I know exactly what you are talking about--there used to be some real stinkers. And I agree; Erik and James must have something to do with the fact that these magazines are the best they have ever been.
So, of course, let's just shut them down and replace them with an online digital initiative.
See, that's my main problem with the U.S.A. The Greeks used to believe in arete, in excellence in every endeavor. We in the U.S.A. couldn't give a rat's tail about arete. It's all about the almighty dollar.
I know there are bigger problems in the world, but I also see this one as a symptom of one of those big problems.
I'd totally go commie for good roleplaying mags!
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I gotta finance degree, and I am not a commie. I just get steamed that I gotta accept the state of "bizarro communism" that comes about when the corporations go mega and start running everything, or be pegged as a Marxist.
When Wal Mart guts the rest of the stores it's going to gut, try to get exactly what you want there. It might be a little better than buying something in Russia during communist rule.
"Evenink vear....veddy nice. Svim vear....veddy nice."
I gotta finance degree, and I am not a commie. I just get steamed that I gotta accept the state of "bizarro communism" that comes about when the corporations go mega and start running everything, or be pegged as a Marxist.
When Wal Mart guts the rest of the stores it's going to gut, try to get exactly what you want there. It might be a little better than buying something in Russia during communist rule.
"Evenink vear....veddy nice. Svim vear....veddy nice."
You guys gotta go check out Penn and Teller's B$%&!$&&, the episode on Wal-Mart. Umm, let's see I can't even write the name of the show because it's obscenity. The show is called [moderated—please don't try to bypass the profanity filters; we have them for a reason].
Personally, with thirty years of gaming under my belt, and issues 62 onward of Dragon in a box in my mom's attic, I am saddened at the event that everyone keeps reliving on these messageboards.
On the other hand, last month was a riot, I'd come home, crack a beer, and instead of catching a comedy or listening to some radio I popped in here and had some great laughs at, as
Ahhhhhh, nothing like fresh nerd-rage in the early evening.
Now, I gotta admit that Heathanson has a good point about the decay of excellence in America
The Greeks used to believe in arete, in excellence in every endeavor. We in the U.S.A. couldn't give a rat's tail about arete. It's all about the almighty dollar.
BUT, I personally believe one of the reasons that they were shut down was BECAUSE they were excellent. They were competing with WotC using Wotc's own license and it was pulled. They are fighting the dilution of their market.
So, it is done. Posting your beefs may make you feel better, fine, but get over it, too.
Paizo's leadership has proven they can attain excellence, we know they don't need the licenses for Dragon and Dungeon to contunue doing so, and they may do even better without those licenses. If they do, people will buy it. Capitalism at work.
=P
Nerds
That said, I still (quite happily) can say, WotC are morons and canning the mags is heresy, cuz I'm a nerd too.
[goes off and plays with his little rubber dudes with swords, marches his red dragon over them making hissy noises like the one the monsters made in the old Hercules cartoon. Rubber paladin kicks dragons ass. Sings the Hercules theme song: "softness in his eyes, iron in his thighs!"]
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I think the above post says it quite well. No right-thinking gamer can be happy about the current situation with Dungeon and Dragon. But that is how it is - annoying, but inevitable.
As a total aside, I just wrote this on my Blackberry. When I just thought that it did emails, I just left it in my drawer at work and ignored it. Now I realise I can get Paizo wherever I go, it shall never leave my side. A rare example of technology making things better.
I think the above post says it quite well. No right-thinking gamer can be happy about the current situation with Dungeon and Dragon. But that is how it is - annoying, but inevitable.
As a total aside, I just wrote this on my Blackberry. When I just thought that it did emails, I just left it in my drawer at work and ignored it. Now I realise I can get Paizo wherever I go, it shall never leave my side. A rare example of technology making things better.
OMG that is so cool, and you are such a nerd.
You should post that on the geek moments board.
I gotta finance degree, and I am not a commie. I just get steamed that I gotta accept the state of "bizarro communism" that comes about when the corporations go mega and start running everything, or be pegged as a Marxist.
When Wal Mart guts the rest of the stores it's going to gut, try to get exactly what you want there. It might be a little better than buying something in Russia during communist rule.
Word.
F+&! Walmart.
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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I think the above post says it quite well. No right-thinking gamer can be happy about the current situation with Dungeon and Dragon. But that is how it is - annoying, but inevitable.
As a total aside, I just wrote this on my Blackberry. When I just thought that it did emails, I just left it in my drawer at work and ignored it. Now I realise I can get Paizo wherever I go, it shall never leave my side. A rare example of technology making things better.
What model do you have? My blackberry doesn't do cookies, so I can't log in to post. I do frequently browse the boards using it though.
As a total aside, I just wrote this on my Blackberry. Now I realise I can get Paizo wherever I go, it shall never leave my side. A rare example of technology making things better.
Pretty awesome, ain't it? :D My work phone does get use! Just not the use you'd think. :)
Together we can stop geek on geek violence.
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I think the above post says it quite well. No right-thinking gamer can be happy about the current situation with Dungeon and Dragon. But that is how it is - annoying, but inevitable.
As a total aside, I just wrote this on my Blackberry. When I just thought that it did emails, I just left it in my drawer at work and ignored it. Now I realise I can get Paizo wherever I go, it shall never leave my side. A rare example of technology making things better.
What model do you have? My blackberry doesn't do cookies, so I can't log in to post. I do frequently browse the boards using it though.
What, you think I actually understand this stuff? It's sort of handy size with little keys - does that help? It's probably magic, like Arthur C Clark said.
All I want to say is that there are 3 main authors who sem to create adventures the way I would want them with minimal changes:
Eric Mona
Eric Boyd
James Jacobs
Since two of these authors are principals with Pathfinder I see little reason to look elsewhere for my gaming inspirations. So unless WOTC finds some new talent which absolutely blows me away, what is the value of using their stuff?
To be frank, the last few WOTC products I have bought (slaughterguarde keep and the Cormyr super adventure), I found rather souless and dull.
Red Path of Doom I found was a sheer joy.
Nuff Said.
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Good news Aubrey - I figured out how to post from my blackberry. Thus, your status has been upgraded from "useless" back to "awsome for a brit."
Though I've got to say, posting this way gives me a headache.
"Awesome for a Brit" - my kidneys cry with joy. It has to be said, though - you really, really need to want to say something to post using a blackberry.
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Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
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"Awesome for a Brit" - my kidneys cry with joy. It has to be said, though - you really, really need to want to say something to post using a blackberry.Good news Aubrey - I figured out how to post from my blackberry. Thus, your status has been upgraded from "useless" back to "awsome for a brit."
Though I've got to say, posting this way gives me a headache.
I think you should seriously consider having a doctor look at those kidneys. That's not normal.
The patriot act prohibits americans from acknowledging that persons outside our borders are persons. Thus the "for a brit" qualifier. Unless we're talking about dental hygiene, in which case the "for a brit" qualifier is mandated for the sake of accurate communication.
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Funnily enough, I heard loads about patriots while on honeymoon. We went to New England and never stopped hearing about patriots in Boston. Vaguely amusing, though ultimately wearing, to hear about how dreadful the British were.
A guide said, "You know, the patriots were taking a big risk - if they had lost the war, they would have been executed as traitors." Well, yeah, duh - that's what they were, if you are British. It put's the "special relationship" into a funny focus.
Man, we are seriously hijacking here. Er, Dungeon and Dragon - terrible, isn't it?
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A guide said, "You know, the patriots were taking a big risk - if they had lost the war, they would have been executed as traitors."
Or they coulda got shot IN the war too.
See the Patriot? Big cannon ball? Takeyer head plum off it will.Oh, and sorry you had to listen to that stuff. When I'm around British people, the whole Revolutionary War thing---meh, better stuff to talk about. I'm over it, anyhow.
I usually ask them, "so what does 'Bob's my Uncle' mean, anyway?"
You know guys, after dealing with the incompetents at Microsoft about my broken Xbox 360, this whole Wizards thing is a walk in the park. I'll be receiving my third replacement (after I wait for an empty box to show up via UPS *gag* for the third time).
At least my books don't fall apart. Yet.
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Oh, and sorry you had to listen to that stuff. When I'm around British people, the whole Revolutionary War thing---meh, better stuff to talk about. I'm over it, anyhow. I usually ask them, "so what does 'Bob's my Uncle' mean, anyway?"
Well, we were doing the "Revolution" trail so we were asking for it a bit. And glad to hear you've moved on too, Heathy - and good to see you are still hale and hearty 200+ years on.
Bob's your Uncle: derivation unknown (to me), sort of means "there you go/done and dusted". More British exceptionalism.
Chief Technical Officer
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Bob's your Uncle: derivation unknown (to me), sort of means "there you go/done and dusted". More British exceptionalism.
Robert Arthur Talbot Gascoyne Cecil, 3rd marquess of Salisbury, was a Conservative prime minister of Britain... [and] is probably the inspiration for the expression Bob's your uncle... The best known recipient of Lord Salisbury's nepotism was literally his nephew, Arthur James Balfour, 1st earl of Balfour... Because he was an opponent of Irish Home Rule and suppressed insurrection, Balfour's appointment to the post of chief secretary for Ireland was considered inappropriate.
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Oh, and sorry you had to listen to that stuff. When I'm around British people, the whole Revolutionary War thing---meh, better stuff to talk about. I'm over it, anyhow. I usually ask them, "so what does 'Bob's my Uncle' mean, anyway?"Well, we were doing the "Revolution" trail so we were asking for it a bit. And glad to hear you've moved on too, Heathy - and good to see you are still hale and hearty 200+ years on.
Bob's your Uncle: derivation unknown (to me), sort of means "there you go/done and dusted". More British exceptionalism.
Actually, my forebears were either in Germany, Norway, or Scotland or Ireland or wherever the hell the Scotch Irish were at the time, so there's nothing for me to get over; my karma's uninvolved in any way.