Creative Director
|
Hi everyone! Just wanted to step in and welcome you to these shiny new messageboards. I’ll be reading through here pretty regularly (usually when I'm burnt out on hammering out stat blocks for the latest Adventure Path installment), so if anyone has any questions about Pathfinder, feel free to post away. Fair Warning: Today’s a pretty crazy busy day here at Paizo, so I might not have a chance to post much beyond this message here for a bit, but once things calm down I’ll be around. Until then, I'll just be watching. And listening. Like some sort of ghost haunting the internets.
Anyway, until then, check out Pathfinder’s new homepage here at paizo.com for more details.
Too bad about Dungeon and Dragon magazines. Talk about end of an era.
I'm speechlessly saddened.
Too bad about Dungeon and Dragon magazines. Talk about end of an era.
I'm speechlessly saddened.
Agreed. Additionally, to say i'm shocked is an understatment.
As ever,
ACE
|
I find myself irritated, annoyed, or perhaps angered (at Hasbro/WotC, not Paizo). The stated reason for discontinuance of the magazine license is risible, given that the WotC website already has the material that they claim to wish to add.
Opinion: This is not intended to increase content at the WotC site, but is rather intended to reduce competition.
I make no claim that WotC cannot do what they have done. It's their IP. But that doesn't mean I cannot call them fools and jerks.
Hmmm, I guess "angered" won.
WotC can kiss my &%%. Paizo, you suck too. I will NOT be following this new Pathfinder crap, I don't care who is writing it.
Dragon and Dungeon are institutions, for Pelor's sake!!! How could you all do this?
I will keep playing D&D, but I will not buy WotC products again, nor will I buy anything from Paizo.
Over-reaction on my part? Some will say yes, that's their opinion, but this is just horrible.
This is a sad day.
Will it be possible to submit adventures for Pathfinder?
|
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
|
I am impressed that Paizo is offering Pathfinder to me at such a reduced price to replaced my fallen Dragon and burnt Dungeon. No one can reasonably blame Paizo, Wizards yanked the license. And at least Wizards let them finish out the current Adventure Path.
Good question about submissions though. Any more options for new writers or has that option gone the way of Dragon and Dungeon?
|
Chief Technical Officer
|
Will it be possible to submit adventures for Pathfinder?
From the FAQ:
How can I submit material for publication in Pathfinder?
Pathfinder is going to need monsters, and lots of them, and they're the easiest way to break in to this exciting new publication. If we like your monster, we'll print it in an upcoming Pathfinder Bestiary; it may even end up with a role in that volume's adventure! We're currently discussing other ways to open up Pathfinder so that we'll have room for fan-submitted articles and content; stay tuned to paizo.com/Pathfinder for details and submission guidelines as they become available.
Holy Jack-in-the-Box!!
This news hit me like a ton of kryptonite!! I'll have to see this new Pathfinder thingy before I cast judgement...
Ultradan
WotC can kiss my &%%. Paizo, you suck too. I will NOT be following this new Pathfinder crap, I don't care who is writing it.
Dragon and Dungeon are institutions, for Pelor's sake!!! How could you all do this?
I will keep playing D&D, but I will not buy WotC products again, nor will I buy anything from Paizo.
Over-reaction on my part? Some will say yes, that's their opinion, but this is just horrible.
This is a sad day.
While I agree it is a sad day, is it really necessary to post the same vitriol in every thread on the new boards?
Oh, and thanks for the FAQ posting Vic.
Can we allow them to think that everything is okay? are we going to sit here and take it politely? It won't change anything, I'm sure, but they need to know just how angry some of us are.
Can we allow them to think that everything is okay? are we going to sit here and take it politely? It won't change anything, I'm sure, but they need to know just how angry some of us are.
It's not okay, and I'm angry too, but be constructive in your anger and direct it towards the appropriate channels (which is to say, the license holders - WotC).
All I can say is wow....this is hard to believe. I hope that the new magazine goes well, and that they have success with it, but it is really hard to believe that WotC and Paizo are ending such long running magazines.
Oh well, we must be optimistic, even if this news totally sucks.
The only major downside I can see is the ridiculous price that is going to cost to buy, and I live in Canada which means even more. I may just not buy them for that reason. I am sure the quality will be the same if not better, but the price is just so much.
I wish you well on this, even if this news completely sucks.
Bruce
Pathfinder seems like a pretty good and interesting idea, but I am a little concerned about the market viability of a product that costs 20 dollars and comes out in monthly installments.
still, I am willing to cut back on my Latte intake and give it a try, shrug, any word on when some sort of writers guidelines might be going up?
I'm a bit stunned at the moment, as both Dragon and Dungeon have been a part of my life since I was a young kid. As an adult, I understand business decisions and don't get upset by them, but I do admit to sadness at this point.
I fully plan to switch my remaining subscription over to Pathfinder to support Paizo, but let me say as an initial reaction, $20/month is a lot per issue. I don't know that a continuing series at that price-point is a viable one, even with discounts for subscriptions. It will be rather difficult to justify that annual expenditure in conjunction with other gaming hobby spending.
Consider: one Gamemastery module per month and Pathfinder equals over $30 at the FLGS! I pay a combined $26 per month for Tivo and Sirius service, and they provide a great deal more content.
On the other hand, this is a very specialized hobby with nowhere near the user base as the two services mentioned above, and you are offering some of the best and brightest in the industry (Wayne Reynolds artwork is always worth my dollars).
I do wish you all at Paizo the best of luck, and you'll have my support at the beginning. It's the long-term sustainability of it that gives me pause.
My big question is this:
What will be the campaign setting for the adventures in PathFinder? I assume that Greyhawk is out? That's my biggest disappointment in this whole thing. I have faith in the writing ability of all concerned here at Paizo, I just don't know what to think about what the setting will be. I'm guessing it'll be kept kinda generic?
Will Paizo create it's own campaign world now?
I'm still stunned over the whole thing however. I for one will NOT be interested in a PDF/online only subscription.
-Darren
The price isn't even an issue with me. I spend so many dollars on gaming a month, I'll just adjust who gets those dollars. In this case, I'll be buying far less from Wizards to keep Pathfinder coming monthly. And no way in heck will I subscribe to the Wizards pay site.
|
My big question is this:
What will be the campaign setting for the adventures in PathFinder? I assume that Greyhawk is out? That's my biggest disappointment in this whole thing. I have faith in the writing ability of all concerned here at Paizo, I just don't know what to think about what the setting will be. I'm guessing it'll be kept kinda generic?
Will Paizo create it's own campaign world now?
I'm still stunned over the whole thing however. I for one will NOT be interested in a PDF/online only subscription.
-Darren
The FAQ linked on Paizo's front page handles this. Paizo is hinting at making their own world.
And before we bemoan the loss of Greyhawk, we have to admit WotC has done *nothing* with the setting thus far. When you have nothing, you have nothing to lose.
money is a big issue here but yeah im gonna try it ..and what world is something i myself wanted to know..i say u can drop it in any but is it gonna also have its on setting
|
Creative Director
|
Since we can't use any of the campaign settings owned by WotC, we'll be creating a brand new setting as a background for Pathfinder. The adventures themselves will be closely tied to the core fantasy swords & sorcery experience. In other words, Shackled City, Age of Worms, and Savage Tide would have fit perfectly into our new campaign setting.
We'll be releasing more info about the setting and the new adventure path over the next several days, so stay tuned!
Since we can't use any of the campaign settings owned by WotC, we'll be creating a brand new setting as a background for Pathfinder. The adventures themselves will be closely tied to the core fantasy swords & sorcery experience. In other words, Shackled City, Age of Worms, and Savage Tide would have fit perfectly into our new campaign setting.
Except that you have to remove the beholders, mind flayers, and every other monster not found in the SRD.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but seriously. Lack of license means lack of classic monsters. There is a huge downside to this transition, and it's going to hurt.
|
Creative Director
|
I fully plan to switch my remaining subscription over to Pathfinder to support Paizo, but let me say as an initial reaction, $20/month is a lot per issue. I don't know that a continuing series at that price-point is a viable one, even with discounts for subscriptions. It will be rather difficult to justify that annual expenditure in conjunction with other gaming hobby spending.
Pathfinder's more expensive for one very good reason: it's not a magazine. The paper stock will be heavier; the covers, while softcover, will be thicker; and we'll have LOTs more room to expand each adventure. We'll have articles about cities, articles about deities and big villians, articles about how to expand your game into areas like building PC-controlled strongholds, articles about the new campaign world it's all set in, and LOTS and LOTS of new monsters.
Plus, with the exception of a page or two of house-ads at the back... there's no ads at all in the product.
The best comparasion is probably something like "Red Hand of Doom" but with more support material to support the adventure and game world.
|
Creative Director
|
Except that you have to remove the beholders, mind flayers, and every other monster not found in the SRD.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but seriously. Lack of license means lack of classic monsters. There is a huge downside to this transition, and it's going to hurt.
True, but there's a LOT in the SRD that's still classic and availalbe; aboleths, demons & devils, derro, drow, otyughs, owlbears, dragons, purple worms, sahuagin, rust monsters, giants, and so on. Plus, there's a huge amount of quality material from d20 publishers out there that we can now use as well.
It certainly hurts to lose access to things like beholders and kuo-toa and umber hulks and yuan-ti and the like, but it's not the end of the world by any means.
Plus, with the exception of a page or two of house-ads at the back... there's no ads at all in the product.
Wow. While that is good for the reader it effectively eliminates some of the last good places for a new company to present themselves. I know as a reader I have always looked to magazines like Dragon and Dungeon for information on new products from a variety of companies. Where will all this informative advertising go now?
|
Chief Technical Officer
|
(I try to not take it as a sign that there is no yearly subscription available)
Not a sign at all. Annual subscriptions are costly to manage, with extra mailings of renewal notices, and oportunities for gaps in subscriptions when people don't renew quickly enough, which isn't good for publisher or subscriber. And those extra mailings increase subscription costs, too. Finally, given that more people are now used to ongoing subscriptions (TiVo, WoW, etc.), we think it's time to move to a more modern model.
-Vic.
.
Except that you have to remove the beholders, mind flayers, and every other monster not found in the SRD.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but seriously. Lack of license means lack of classic monsters. There is a huge downside to this transition, and it's going to hurt.
Wow, I thought the SRD included all of Monster Manual 1, but in fact there are a lot less critters in there (Mind Flayers included). Savage Tide seemed to use a lot of monsters from MM2 and the FF. It will hurt.
Wow, I thought the SRD included all of Monster Manual 1, but in fact there are a lot less critters in there (Mind Flayers included).
I will have to update DM Tools to be able to sort just SRD monsters.
|
wow...i disappear to take care of some personal problems and come back to find this out...
words cannot possibly begin to convey just how distraught i am at this turn of events. i've been playing for well over 20 years and i can't think of a time when Dragon and Dungeon weren't there to bail me out of a role-playing jam by providing inspiration or coming up with something that i was toying with doing myself.
it's almost as if a significant portion of my soul has just been snuffed out of existence. oh sure, i have my back issues and plenty of fond memories but it just won't be the same without my two favorite magazines around anymore.
but it seems we will now have Pathfinder to look forward and from what i can see it looks like Paizo hasn't taken this lying down. so if it is my support you want, than that is what you have. lets show those blackguards at WOTC exactly what we think of this travesty! rally behind the banner of Pathfinder! Who's with me?!
...sorry, my inner bard came out.
Plus, with the exception of a page or two of house-ads at the back... there's no ads at all in the product.Wow. While that is good for the reader it effectively eliminates some of the last good places for a new company to present themselves. I know as a reader I have always looked to magazines like Dragon and Dungeon for information on new products from a variety of companies. Where will all this informative advertising go now?
That's a fantastic question. I sent a letter to my ad clients today and gave them the news and have made myself available in anyway I can to find them new ad channels. Since I've spent the better part of the last year finding place to advertise Paizo's products, I have a good list.
Paizo will also soon be lanching a Package Insert Program so hobby manufacturers and publishers and advertise direct to the paizo.com customers via their packages.
|
|
Not a sign at all. Annual subscriptions are costly to manage, with extra mailings of renewal notices, and oportunities for gaps in subscriptions when people don't renew quickly enough, which isn't good for publisher or subscriber. And those extra mailings increase subscription costs, too. Finally, given that more people are now used to ongoing subscriptions (TiVo, WoW, etc.), we think it's time to move to a more modern model.
-Vic.
Thanks for the clarification Vic. I am actuially fine with a month to month subscription and see no reason to do things yearly. I didn't realize it was costly to handle things on a yearly basis, but you guys are the pros, so sounds fair enough to me.
Where is the SRD monster list?
Monsters not in the SRD: beholder, carrion crawler, mind flayer, yuan-ti, displacer beast, githyanki, kuo-toa, githzerai, umber hulk, slaad.
Everything else is a go.
I'd love to be able to see a complete list of critters currently available for OGL.
I am very sad to see Dungeon and Dragon going away, much like everyone else. What is sad to me is that WOTC is talking about moving them to an electronic medium. I find this very ironic since there website support is mediocre to say the least. It seems like this is one more step in the DnD 4.0 conspiracy. To be honest I haven't seen a single ezine that can compare to the quality, continuity, and consitiency that Paizo provided every month. And on top of that, the adventure paths have been, in my opinion, the high light of DnD over the last few years. I mean a large amount of the stuff WOTC has released in the increasingly smaller books could have easily been released in Dragon at a lower production cost, and easier for the players to attain. But even though the gaming hobby is a very small and tight community, WOTC is still a business and is about making money. Unfortunately I don't think I am going to be able to justify $20 a month for adventures when I don't even have a gaming group. I wish Paizo could put together a good D2o Modern OGL magazine. Unfortunately I doubt there is enough of a support base for that.
Salcor
If you Paizo folks can get Monte Cook to come back to game design and contribute to Pathfinder in some capacity, you may consider my $20 per month subscription a guarantee.
Welcome indeed!
Pathfinder and improved wotc web support both sounds good.
The new mag seem like a pretty good deal if paizo can keep up the layout and artwork standards, and the current wotc website is free but also worthless.
I'll miss the current magazines, but this change is probably a good thing.
I am on board with pathfinder. I subscribe to dungeon off and on in the last 1o or more years. My last subscription was when Paizo took over and I loved it and getting back into the game now I wanted to subscribe to it again, but at last it is over so the time to start a new era. When My players finish there current FR campign I will be starting rune lord and only be buying minatures from WOTC. I am really excited about this and just hope Paizo can keep it going and make good content. I barely no anything about the Pathfinder series, but I trust Paizo.
I'm very sad to see the old magazines go, but Pathfinder looks like it's going to be quality stuff, so I'm going to give it a spin. :)
I'd love to be able to see a complete list of critters currently available for OGL.
Here you go: SRD Monsters
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
|
I've got to say, the pdf copy is a significant selling point. Thank you so much for that! One of the most limiting factors of Dragon/Dungeon is that if I find an article I like in an issue, I have no easy way to use it in my game. The thought of having the high level content you guys put out available in a pdf file to be printed as I wish...well...it makes me drool. It's so good to see a company embracing technology instead of running from it.
Any chance we'll see a pdf only subscription at some point?
|
Bella Sara Charter Superscriber
|
Ok, go pathfinder, but a couple of questions that I think need answered.
1. What happens when Wotc pulls the plug on OGL with 4th ed.? It will happen, (remember this post) so what are you planning to do about that?
The publication of 4e will in no way limit Paizo's ability to produce 3e materials using the OGL. To the extent WotC decides to publish 4e without an OGL component, they do so at their own peril. WotC cannot "pull the plug" on the OGL; it is irrevocable.
2. I dont understand your $$ issues. You say that it's too expensive to put out a magazine (which you already do). So either I'm missing the point that you guys were losing money, or something else. I know I can't afford a 20$ magazine every month.
I don't think anyone ever said it was too expensive. Money was not the factor that resulted in the pulling of the plug; the control of the licensee was. Reread the press release.
How does this affect Paizo's relationship with the RPGA? Will we still be able to order Pathfinder games for RPGA points?
Thanks for the clarification Vic. I am actuially fine with a month to month subscription and see no reason to do things yearly. I didn't realize it was costly to handle things on a yearly basis, but you guys are the pros, so sounds fair enough to me.Not a sign at all. Annual subscriptions are costly to manage, with extra mailings of renewal notices, and oportunities for gaps in subscriptions when people don't renew quickly enough, which isn't good for publisher or subscriber. And those extra mailings increase subscription costs, too. Finally, given that more people are now used to ongoing subscriptions (TiVo, WoW, etc.), we think it's time to move to a more modern model.
-Vic.
I might give you a reason... Because it makes it easy for your clients. The ONLY reason I took a 36 magazine subscription is because I didn't have to bother with it for another three years!! What will you say to your custumers who don't have internet access? How will they re-subscribe every month?
It just seems like a lot of hassle for us subscribers. I'm voting for multi-magazine package deals.
Ultradan
|
Chief Technical Officer
|
1. What happens when Wotc pulls the plug on OGL with 4th ed.? It will happen, (remember this post) so what are you planning to do about that?
As mentioned above, the OGL is irrevocable.
2. I dont understand your $$ issues. You say that it's too expensive to put out a magazine (which you already do). So either I'm missing the point that you guys were losing money, or something else. I know I can't afford a 20$ magazine every month.
If you're talking about Josh's post about why we're not launching a *new* magazine, he meant that the cost of launching a new magazine on the scale of Dragon or Dungeon is too high (at least seven digits to do it right). Newsstand distribution is a horrific racket, but without it, you can't get advertisers.
Pathfinder is not a magazine. It's a book. One hundred largely advertising-free pages, in a form meant to last (stiff cover, better paper).
No Dungeon and Dragon magazine sure sucks, but I'm looking forward to the Pathfinder AP and signed up from my excess subscription credit. Keep up the great work.
|
CEO
|
I'd love to be able to see a complete list of critters currently available for OGL.Where is the SRD monster list?
Monsters not in the SRD: beholder, carrion crawler, mind flayer, yuan-ti, displacer beast, githyanki, kuo-toa, githzerai, umber hulk, slaad.
Everything else is a go.
Also, remember that we can now use any monsters published in other OGL products. So great monsters from Green Ronin, Necromancer Games, and others will be fair game for our adventures. Sure, a few doors will be closed to us, but so many more will be open. I personally am really excited about the opportunities!
-Lisa