I like Fantasy Flight's new X-Wing tactical dog-fight game.
I'm enjoying playing it.
.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuhwSma960Y
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite.asp?eidm=174
I just think the character advancement arc of D20 games doesn't really work for the setting portrayed in the films.
I think the game engine is great, but it is very specific in how it works for certain things, and it fails pretty hard at other things.
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I thought StarWars was only out in d6 format?
Is there a free rules quickstart?
* boggles *
You do realize that this thread had been dead for six and a half years when you asked this, don't you?
It's just as baffling as not wanting to play 3.5e even when it's just as good if not better than Pathfinder.
Some people just don't get that there are good games out there. One should certainly not judge a book by its cover.
It's kind of like whenever someone on this board hears about a new game...there's always someone who has to ask "Is there a version for Pathfinder?"
Not everything has to be Pathfinder (or even d20) -compatible to be good.
how do you tell?
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Fantasy Flight Games is working on a new Core Rulebook for a new Star Wars RPG and I hope it's good.
This is excellent news. I hope it's d6 based.
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From what I understand, it utilizes dice from d6-d12 (I think that's the range, it's been a while since I looked at it). The catch is that those dice aren't like regular dice, with 1-6 or 1-8 printed on them, but they instead have special symbols, similar to Fantasy Flight's Third Edition of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay.
Here is a picture of the dice.
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Urge to play..falling.. :(
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I know what you mean. I heard "Fantasy Flight is making a new Star Wars game" and I was all "Cool, I really like what they did with the Warhammer 40k games!" Then I heard "and we're using dice with funny symbols like in WFRP 3E" and I was all "well... at least I still have my Saga Edition books." :(
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Urge to play..falling.. :(
FICKLE D12!!!
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I'll be honest, I'm fairly new to roleplaying, I've only been playing for less than 5 yrs now. But every group I join and play with has had an amazing distaste for the new Star Wars d20 game. Is it something that I'm missing for are they just upset because they feel Wizards nerfed the Jedi classes that much? I'll be honest, I never got a chance to play in a d6 game of Star Wars, so am I missing something from not having played that? Let me know please!
Well, the problem is you haven't been playing RPGs 25-30 years like the rest of us. That's actually the reason people loath the Star wars RPG. By the time you hit thirty years of gaming you will have created your own RPG engine and have a black book of 'what is best in life'. You will want to play only that which you create or something you have been playing since the beginning.
You want to do something with the Star Wars RPG you spent your hard money on? - don't play it as a Starwars game. Create some other scifi setting - yank the Jedi (or bastardize them into something else - like a bastard version of Dune's Navigators - restrict powers to story based powers where Third Stage Navigator Han-Fei can sense a Capital-ship in Hyperspace and merge jump pathways so you can board the Capital-ship mid-jump when they think they are alone).
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I thought StarWars was only out in d6 format?
Is there a free rules quickstart?
* boggles *
You do realize that this thread had been dead for six and a half years when you asked this, don't you?
It's just as baffling as not wanting to play 3.5e even when it's just as good if not better than Pathfinder.
Some people just don't get that there are good games out there. One should certainly not judge a book by its cover.
It's kind of like whenever someone on this board hears about a new game...there's always someone who has to ask "Is there a version for Pathfinder?"
Not everything has to be Pathfinder (or even d20) -compatible to be good.
It has less to do with being good and more to do with learning a new system. Some people probably like the setting of a certain game but may not have the time nor inclination to learn a new system. Nothing really wrong with that *shrug*.
Also, this thread only furthers my theory that Electric DM/Tenser/Grand Magus is actually a spambot that gained sapience.
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Yellowdingo, I'm not sure that brokenlookinglass will see your response. His last post on this website was made over six years ago.I am writing to him in the past so he can get his answer and go...
Dude that's a sweet mutant power you have there.
Can you write me a letter back in 1985 and tell me to buy stock in Microsoft, Apple, and Google?
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Yellowdingo, I'm not sure that brokenlookinglass will see your response. His last post on this website was made over six years ago.I am writing to him in the past so he can get his answer and go...Dude that's a sweet mutant power you have there.
Can you write me a letter back in 1985 and tell me to buy stock in Microsoft, Apple, and Google?
Check the envelope that fell behind your bed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyt0TuqlReg&feature=related
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Yellowdingo, I'm not sure that brokenlookinglass will see your response. His last post on this website was made over six years ago.I am writing to him in the past so he can get his answer and go...Dude that's a sweet mutant power you have there.
Can you write me a letter back in 1985 and tell me to buy stock in Microsoft, Apple, and Google?
Can you write me a couple of years ago and tell me the 6 numbers of the SuperEnalotto drawing in Italy? The reward for getting all six numbers right was over 160,000,000 of euro.
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Can you write me a couple of years ago and tell me the 6 numbers of the SuperEnalotto drawing in Italy? The reward for getting all six numbers right was over 160,000,000 of euro.
this would be considered arbitrage which is impossible
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One of the more successful games I've GM'd is a Star Wars RPG. We've jumped systems twice - we started in Saga edition, which just didn't work for what we were doing, jumped to a prototype system I'm building (which worked much better than I actually expected it to), and for the last relaunch, shifted to a modified Pathfinder.
This last shift has actually been wildly successful at giving us the feel we were looking for, which is admittedly more EU than the core films - our games are not very action-heavy. Still: it's a cool world with some very interesting themes to play with, and the PF rules have worked pretty well for us.
@LazarX - Star Wars: Legacy is what made me want to run a Star Wars game. No doubt.
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I enjoyed both the d6 and d20 versions.
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I liked Star Wars d20 (I've never liked any d6 systems).
Played as a Jedi Consular in one game and a Ewok Force User in the second.
I do remember stun grenades being incredibly broken with no way to overcome them, there was an FAQ with some suggested fixes for this, though.
Also, the second game was set after Return of the Jedi, where Vader killed Luke. We didn't get far unfortunately, but imagine the possibilities!
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Since we're jumping on the dead thread: I actually quite like Saga. I ran a very successful two-player, all-Jedi game in the Legacy era. It was just about the most fun I've had GMing a game...and if you made it into a film I think it'd be a pretty good movie.
M
I'm currently GMing the last (latest)version of WOTC's star wars. I have all the released books and have more than enough to run my campaign for the next few years. Problems that i find with star wars are:
1. Space combat-Clunky and not satisfying especially with my group which ranges from 3-6 Pc's.
2. Grenades-i've made it very difficult to obtain them. Really not introduced until level 8+
3. Jedi. I have 2 jedi and they can handle almost anything i throw at them. They are constantly saving the butts of the party. My current adventure involves the vong which has made it somewhat challenging. Between force slam/grip/healing trance/deflect they could take on Superman.
4. Rules are scattered over all secondary material and it can be hard to locate those rules. WOTC should have come out with a supplelment detailing all rule addons or updated the core book.
5. Treasure-Doesnt exist in Star wars. Ive had to make up my own ancient artifacts, modified weapons (sort of like +1 weapons etc from D&d).
6. Planets-Most from non WOTC star wars material including galaxy maps, etc.
Luckily when i started the campaign about 2 years ago i got some pointers from someone on another site.
Wicked, how are your Jedi doing all that? Jedi in Saga are very limited (and quite balanced) by the amount of per-encounter uses of their Force Powers they have, and under the default rules, that's not a lot. I have more issues with Soldier/Elite Trooper combos who take the Greater Penetrating Shot and Greater Devastating Shot abilities, which allow them to cut through armor and condition tracks like hot knives through butter.
If anything, the Jedi in my (very long running) game come up on the short end of "cool stuff I can do" because of being bound by the need to spend Force Training slots to get more power uses. (I say this after having the game progress to the point of the players hitting 15th level, as well)
Ysalimiri (sp) are useful for your bad guys to have on hand if they're expecting Jedi. ;) lots of massed fire is useful too. You can only deflect so many shots. But our best games (during the two-Jedi campaign) were the ones where they squared off against Sith guys. We had encounters at all level and all of the battles were pretty satisfying.
M
force grip against non sith is a devasting attack along with slam. You only need 1 or 2 of those an encounter. Defenses are very high( area attack does negate that). Force trance at end of combat and they get those powers back for next encounter. Jemstone can you give me an example of a combat encounter in which the jedi came up on the short end?
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I don't hate it or love it in terms of a rpg. Imo one of the big reasons why for the dislike is that in the D6 version of the game Jedi in the hands of a compatant player can rule the game. Boast your force skill high enough and you can outclass everyone at the table. The designers of the D6 version never really addressed that flaw imo. The fixes they suggest all seem like they are written to screw over the force using player as opposed to addressing the problem. Such gems as "don't use the force everything" and other similar pearls of wisdom. At high skill levels rolling a lot of D6 becomes annoying. D6 is not a bad game by any means. I just found the d@o version better in most respects.
Treasure isnt the focus but the lack of it in my opinion is a negative compared to other RPGS. Almost every rpg ever made one of the more satisying endings to the dungeon or whatver was the magic item/coins to buy stuff or even make stuff better than what already existed. If it wasnt a magic item it was a safe full of cash (gangbusters or wild west games) or ways to improve your weapons etc. Gave the 10th level guy something to boast about.
Why isn't there treasure in SW? Hutts have skiffloads of goodies in their lairs. Knock over a squad of Stormtroopers and you get a crate of blaster carbines, maybe some grenades and a vehicle...not to mention some pretty spiffy (if peripheral-vision-blocking) armor.
In a movie-canon-style SW game I make looting off-limits. In a Scoundrels & Starships type of game I think there's tons of treasure to be had.
M
force grip against non sith is a devasting attack along with slam. You only need 1 or 2 of those an encounter. Defenses are very high( area attack does negate that). Force trance at end of combat and they get those powers back for next encounter. Jemstone can you give me an example of a combat encounter in which the jedi came up on the short end?
Are you using the pre-errata version of Force Grip, where you don't have to exceed the target's Damage Threshold to do damage? Define "devastating"? (And why are your Jedi grabbing/choking/flinging opponents, anyway?)
And before I go any further... are you using Saga Edition? I just realized I'm completely assuming that you are.
As to an example of the Jedi coming up on the short end, sure. You specified a combat encounter, so, here's one from my own game.
The characters find themselves in an old Sith Temple on the planet Badeen. Surrounded by hordes of those disturbing hopping-droids (think KOTOR 1) on one side, a roiling lava flow on the other, and a collapsing temple roof, the characters have to rely on their class abilities to get them through the encounter.
The Jedi ran out of Force Power uses by the middle of the encounter, having used one a round until all of his Force Training slots were spent from his Suite. This meant he had to fall back to basic attacks, Use The Force tricks, and Feats.
The Soldier and the Noble and the Scout, on the other hand, all still had their non-gated abilities - the Soldier was still able to use his Condition Track degrading abilities, the Scout was still pulling off Sniper shots, the Noble was still rallying the troops and boosting defenses/attacks.
(If you're looking for a blow-by-blow, then, I'm sorry - I can't give that to you as I don't keep meticulous notes on the combats in my games)
More recently, even after adjusting Force Powers/Force Training to grant more uses per encounter, the Jedi has still found himself struggling to ensure that he doesn't gobble up all of his Suite-uses by the middle of the encounter, at which point he basically becomes a melee combatant (who can deflect and reflect blaster bolts, but not indefinitely).
Maybe it's a difference in our games styles, I dunno, but the built-in balancing factors in Saga have always seemed to put the Jedi onto very even footing with the rest of the group.
I'm at work right now, but if I get the chance later tonight I'll dig through the core rules for Saga and come back with some mechanical examples.
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Imo one of the big reasons why for the dislike is that in the D6 version of the game Jedi in the hands of a compatant player can rule the game. Boast your force skill high enough and you can outclass everyone at the table. The designers of the D6 version never really addressed that flaw imo.
Funny people should say this. From a 'movie canon' point of view - what was more powerful than a well trained Jedi/Sith? Han seems capable of wiping out 10's-100's of Stormtroopers but only got one ineffective shot off against Vader (Empire Strikes Back). If it was Han versus Luke in A New Hope I would bet on Han, by Empire Strikes Back, not sure - but by Return of the Jedi. Sorry Han you are going down. The d6 RPG reflected this really well I always thought. There was a very good reason the Chancellor had all the Jedi killed first and in ambush!
S.
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Treasure isnt the focus but the lack of it in my opinion is a negative compared to other RPGS. Almost every rpg ever made one of the more satisying endings to the dungeon or whatver was the magic item/coins to buy stuff or even make stuff better than what already existed. If it wasnt a magic item it was a safe full of cash (gangbusters or wild west games) or ways to improve your weapons etc. Gave the 10th level guy something to boast about.
Not sure that Star Wars is (or has ever been) that type of game. D&D/PF is kill things and take their stuff. Star Wars was always things like 'foil the evil empire', the reward being the foiling and not the stealing of the Tie Fighter (or whatever). Come to think about most Sci-Fi themed RPGs don't really have the "+1 sword" as a reward - alien or advanced tech I guess comes to mind. Well unless you are playing Paranoia or Gamma World, then either of these classes of items are right up there with the mentioned Ye Old Tome in Call of Cthulhu.
S.
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Imo one of the big reasons why for the dislike is that in the D6 version of the game Jedi in the hands of a compatant player can rule the game. Boast your force skill high enough and you can outclass everyone at the table. The designers of the D6 version never really addressed that flaw imo.Funny people should say this. From a 'movie canon' point of view - what was more powerful than a well trained Jedi/Sith? Han seems capable of wiping out 10's-100's of Stormtroopers but only got one ineffective shot off against Vader (Empire Strikes Back). If it was Han versus Luke in A New Hope I would bet on Han, by Empire Strikes Back, not sure - but by Return of the Jedi. Sorry Han you are going down. The d6 RPG reflected this really well I always thought. There was a very good reason the Chancellor had all the Jedi killed first and in ambush!That's true, but it doesn't work well as a game to have one character type so dominant. Unless you're playing an all Jedi game, of course.
If the player is willing to play New Hope Luke rather than Return of the Jedi Luke then their isn't such a problem. Games like Burning Wheel fall apart if one person purposely goes out of their way to not want to be one of the team but rather the best (whatever that means). The GM along with the players and a mature attitude can go a long way to correct any rule failings.
I guess we never had issue as the players tended to self police. Invalidating anothers character by 'optimisation' isn't a fun way to play an RPG.
And yes I'm the type of Grinch GM who will veto characters that obviously don't conform to the average party power. 3.5e/PF are my bane as GM, why on earth two of my players insist on showing how smart they are by attempting the break the darn PF game I will never know. If they did something really smart like come up with cold fusion... Still I have them trained. When they make a new character they show it to the rest of the players. Then something termed the 'are you being a dick' vote occurs. Veto as GM is my right of course!
S.
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The thing is besides one exception most jedi in games that I have played in never optimized. Yet neither were they never going to increase their force skill. It's something that WEG never tried to fix with rules. I could understand with the 1E version of the SW D6 rpg. Yet beyond implementing a poor fix that screwed over force users something could have been done by 2e revised. I'm not saying Gimp Jedi yet the force rules in D6 allowed even non-optimizers to do so much more.
Star Wars should be one of the best RPG games out on the market now, but the sad fact that the right company has not obtained the publishing rights yet is what holds this license back from being one of the greats. I know FFG has the rights now, and they make quality books but some of their game systems are flawed and just don't do the job. I'm skeptical about what they will do with the Star Wars tabletop RPG game.
Star Wars should be one of the best RPG games out on the market now, but the sad fact that the right company has not obtained the publishing rights yet is what holds this license back from being one of the greats. I know FFG has the rights now, and they make quality books but some of their game systems are flawed and just don't do the job. I'm skeptical about what they will do with the Star Wars tabletop RPG game.
Of course the right company to do a STAR WARS tabletop RPG is this one (Paizo), but the licence would likely take too big of a slice to make the game profitable.
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Star Wars should be one of the best RPG games out on the market now, but the sad fact that the right company has not obtained the publishing rights yet is what holds this license back from being one of the greats. I know FFG has the rights now, and they make quality books but some of their game systems are flawed and just don't do the job. I'm skeptical about what they will do with the Star Wars tabletop RPG game.Of course the right company to do a STAR WARS tabletop RPG is this one (Paizo), but the licence would likely take too big of a slice to make the game profitable.
Not if they persisted with the D20/level ruleset. This would need to be built from the ground up. PF in Space just wouldn't be good. Paizo would however produce beautiful books, no argument there.
S.
Of course the right company to do a STAR WARS tabletop RPG is this one (Paizo), but the licence would likely take too big of a slice to make the game profitable.Not if they persisted with the D20/level ruleset.
I do not agree with you. I liked the d20 Star Wars.
I think that using the d20/PF rule set as a base would be a good move.
So here we are again, with me having gone through the Saga core rules to address Wicked's problematic Jedi...
force grip against non sith is a devasting attack along with slam. You only need 1 or 2 of those an encounter.
So, as I asked before - are you using the pre-errata version of Force Grip? The current ruling on them requires that you overcome the target's Damage Threshold (not their Fort/Will defense) to do any damage:
Replace the DC 15 text with the following:
DC 15: If your Use the Force check equals or exceeds the target's damage threshold, the target takes 2d6 points of damage and can only take a single swift action on his next turn. Otherwise, the target takes half damage and may act normally, and you may not maintain the power.
Replace the second sentence under Special with the following: "Maintaining the Force grip power is a standard action, and you must make a new Use the Force check each round. If you suffer damage while maintaining a Force grip, you must succeed on a Use the Force check (DC = 15 + damage taken) to continue concentrating."
p. 97 – Force Slam
The Use the Force check should be compared to the target's damage threshold instead of Fortitude Defense.
Defenses are very high( area attack does negate that).
How high are we talking, here?
Force trance at end of combat and they get those powers back for next encounter.
I don't follow. This is completely unnecessary, and isn't what Force Trance does at all.. Resting for one minute at the end of an encounter is enough to replenish the character's Force Suite and restore all powers. Additionally, you can use the Force Focus talent to regain a Force Power of your choosing during an encounter (requires a full round action).
Force Trance has absolutely nothing to do with regaining Force suite powers. It's entirely used for healing damage faster than normal. I'm very confused as to why the Jedi in your game are using it to regain their force suite powers.
.... Now of course, all of this is moot if you're not using Saga Edition, so feel free to call me a Nerf Herder, here... But I think perhaps the Jedi in your game should not be as powerful as they've turned out to be in your game.
Star Wars should be one of the best RPG games out on the market now, but the sad fact that the right company has not obtained the publishing rights yet is what holds this license back from being one of the greats. I know FFG has the rights now, and they make quality books but some of their game systems are flawed and just don't do the job. I'm skeptical about what they will do with the Star Wars tabletop RPG game.Of course the right company to do a STAR WARS tabletop RPG is this one (Paizo), but the licence would likely take too big of a slice to make the game profitable.Not if they persisted with the D20/level ruleset. This would need to be built from the ground up. PF in Space just wouldn't be good. Paizo would however produce beautiful books, no argument there.
S.
I would prefer a strongly built D20 system built from the ground up. I'm sure Paizo could make a great Star Wars game, I wish they owned the license.
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Since we're jumping on the dead thread: I actually quite like Saga. I ran a very successful two-player, all-Jedi game in the Legacy era. It was just about the most fun I've had GMing a game...and if you made it into a film I think it'd be a pretty good movie.
M
Would it convert well to a D&D setting where Jedi are Clerics and Sith are Wizards?