Finally, a forum where I can easily make comments. I've had this one brewing for a long time:
Looking through my old issues today, I was utterly enraptured by the covers. My God, they were beautful. Yes, beautiful. There's just no other word for it. Sweeping, uncluttered, panoramic vistas of fantasy worlds that, to this day, make me want to get out there and play like nothing else. They've fired my imagination for years.
The covers since 3E are just terrible. So stale. So trite. So...souless. Just figures in poses. No insight. No feeling. No WORLDS.
And it's not just me. Whenever the subject of Dragon comes up anywhere on the internet in any forum, this sentiment is echoed again and again. Never have I witnessed, even once, a participant in a Dragon-related discussion express a preference for the new cover style over the old.
So, what do you say? Will you give us what we want and make Dragon beautiful again?
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Finally, a forum where I can easily make comments. I've had this one brewing for a long time:
Looking through my old issues today, I was utterly enraptured by the covers. My God, they were beautful. Yes, beautiful. There's just no other word for it. Sweeping, uncluttered, panoramic vistas of fantasy worlds that, to this day, make me want to get out there and play like nothing else. They've fired my imagination for years.
The covers since 3E are just terrible. So stale. So trite. So...souless. Just figures in poses. No insight. No feeling. No WORLDS.
And it's not just me. Whenever the subject of Dragon comes up anywhere on the internet in any forum, this sentiment is echoed again and again. Never have I witnessed, even once, a participant in a Dragon-related discussion express a preference for the new cover style over the old.
So, what do you say? Will you give us what we want and make Dragon beautiful again?
Here's one. Personally, I liked the bulk of 3E cover art. I also liked the artistic "Dragon" and "Dungeon" 3E logos and wish that Paizo hadn't returned to the old block-print. But hey - they must bend to consumer demands or else they risk losing consumers - and the majority of consumers seemed to like the logos of old.
I like the new look. The magazine title font doesn't matter to me either way. I just like the cover art to be something that I can leave on the coffee table and not get embarrassed if someone comes over. Some of the covers of the past showed a bit too much skin, or too grusome for me to feel comfortable leaving out.
I run games for my kids and thier friends. I'd like for their parents not to worry by seeing a magazine showing lots of flesh on my coffee table. And yes, both dungeon and dragon have had such covers in the past.
As a parent, I guess I have different ideas of appropriate for the art on my magazines. And just to be clear, I've love the cover art of late!
My first cover commission as art director for Dragon is issue 324. I happen to think this is one of the best Dragon covers ever, certainly in the top 5. Marc Sasso turned over a cover better than I could have hoped for.
We're aiming for more of these, and less like issue 87.
Sean Glenn
Art Director Dragon and Dungeon magazines
Wow, Mr. Glenn! That looks awesome!
Personally, I thought the old covers looked slightly...cartoony, I guess. I like the new ones better.
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Yeah, personally, I've liked the 3rd Edition art. And aside from a letter that was printed a long, long time ago in Scale Mail, looking for a return to the pastoral scenes of old, I've never heard of anyone complaining about it. (The Editor's reply was something to the effect of "You will never see seamstresses on the the cover of Dragon again.")
I like the (I forget the jargon for it, but) the blurbs that are laid down the side of the page more than the banner relegated to the bottom or the top like the first Unleashed issues. But it looks like the new Dragon is returning to that, so I'm good with it.
And (at the risk of sounding like a perv) for the record, I'm not against seeing a little skin on the cover. =)
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 4, RPG Superstar 2011 Top 16
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Actually, though I'm a fan of many of the new covers since 2000, a lot are getting cartoony in a comic book/anime kind of way... The best covers to date since the Change to 3E have been:
#278 Dwarf
#279 Elves (Brom's Drizzt rendition)
#289 Ninja's
#291 Gnomes
#307 Westeros (not D&D, but great art)
#322 Do it in the Dark (a Dark Stalker)
2002 was the year the cartoony feel started to creep in. Don't get me wrong I love some of the newer artists WAR, James Ryman, Kalman Andrasofsky... but the style is definitely different than some of the grittier covers of before. But times change and so do tastes. Who can fight time?
Alright. Here's my first posting on any message board anywhere, and I'm drawn into the foray of new vs. old, classic vs. contemporary. Having been playing D & D in some form since 1978, I guess I qualify as an old fart, even though I'm only 35. I remember picking up my first issue of The Dragon (#65) at a bookstore. It was the last copy on the rack and was one of the classic Clyde Caldwell covers, showing a green dragon lurking overhead while a warrior and his stout dwarven companion walk through an archway into a room of treasure----mysteriously floating in the background, a wispy female character, possibly a sorceress, looks over their shoulders, sensing what is about to happen. I admit that I'm an old-schooler and grew up on those covers from Caldwell, Dean Morrisey, Robin Wood, Denis Beauvais and the venerable Larry Elmore. When the newer editions came to pass, it was a foregone conclusion that the Dragon would have to evolve and adapt, in order to remain competitive and draw in readers. While I yearn for those old schoolers and their wonderfully enchanting artwork, I believe that the time has come to let a new generation assume that mantle of leadership. I think it would be wonderful to have some of the "old-school" artists back every now and then to do those covers, simply because there are a lot of us out here who do remember and can appreciate, that style of art. Nothing is necessarily wrong or soulless about the new art, rather, it's a different style that appeals to a new generation, playing a newer edition, with newer rules, and younger faces. Let them have the newer covers. It won't hurt anyone and doesn't detract from what really matters, i.e., the content. I'm looking at #324 while here on my lunch break, and I like it. Solid articles, well laid out form, and very funny (Zogonia gets better each issue). The cover is simple and to the point, much in line with the Halloween/wintery theme associated with its contents. I say "kudos" to Mr. Glenn for developing new artists and great artwork. I would only ask that they consider getting some of those old-schoolers back on occasion. I know Erol Otus is enjoying his stint back at Goodman Games.
J.R. Boyd is right-on, right-on.
I want to see a Larry Elmore cover.
Give me the old Dragon title back it looked cool and the new one sucks. the cover art on 324 was really good though. However 323 was pathetic.
The change to block letter title sucks. It's so undistinguishing.
It *had* personality.
I for one like the coves to have life in them and not fear away from taking chances.
I agree with those who posted above about the title font - I vastly preferred the old one. The new one isn't terrible - just dull (the title font *before* 3e was terrible). In general, though, I think the artwork and general design and layout of Dragon magazine are exemplary.
I don't mind the new logo at all, and over all I don't have any gripes with the new cover art. But I do miss those covers from the 80s and early 90s. I especially miss the ones by Caldwell and Holloway. Those covers told stories in and of themselves. I can't recall the issue number, but it was a Jim Holloway cover of an orc standing over a fallen companion, surrounded by elves. The orc is beckoning them to "Come get some". Man... that cover itself inspired me to run a huge battle in the next game I ran.
Thanks to all the great artists over the years who've contributed their time and talent for our viewing pleasure. It'd sure be great to see one of those legendary masters' works again.
It's me again. I got to thinking about some of the responses this topic has generated. Recently, David C. Sutherland's (DCS) family sold off a lot of his personal items fro m the early TSR days, back when this hobby was in its infancy. DCS did a lot of the interior and exterior artwork for the old books, especially the Old DM's Guide with the woman caught in the hands of the efreet. But I digress. My point is this. There are a lot of artists out there who contributed to the success of D & D in its early stages, many of whom we still hold near and dear to our hearts. Perhaps PAIZO needs to consider an homage to these artists of old and how they inspired the modern generation of artists who regularly paint for the fantasy genre. Maybe a single issue devoted to many of these artists or perhaps even a year-long celebration where select "old-school" artists can offer new covers for an entire year, Erol Otus one month, Jeff Dee the next, then Holloway, Elmore, Willingham, Caldwell, Morrisey, Wood, etc. By giving the modern generation of 3E players a glimpse of the passionate artwork and glory of these "old-timers", it allows them to connect with a still vibrant era and gain some perspective on why the game has progressed to where it is in 2004. Just some more ramblings, but I greatly think that Mr. Mona and others at Paizo would be doing a great service to these founding artists and help bridge a gap between new and old. My 2 cents.
I wonder if Mr. Mona bid on that original DMGuide I had my eyes on?? That would've been a sweet piece of history, especially with the errors being noted by DCS. Anyway, it sounds as if this is at least a slowly germinating idea that may evolve into a future issue of Dragon/Dungeon. Any chances of selling that item you obtained?? Guess it pays to be the E-in-C of a big magazine. I'll have to quit my job as a 20th Level Assassin/Lawyer. Just doesn't pay like it used to.
To kind of redirect this thread back on track:
What do you all think about my suggestion that more Dragon covers be devoted to telling stories and depicting fantastic worlds and less be devoted to close-ups of random characters in generic "basass" poses?
Here are some examples of old favorites of mine that illustrate the kind fo thing I'm referring to.
http://store.jaquays.com/thorn_world.jpg
http://www.kochcomics.com/images2/dragon184small.jpg
http://i23.ebayimg.com/03/i/02/51/e2/75_1_b.JPG
Of course, the image quality in some cases might not be that great, but you get the idea.
I'm not saying that "vanilla" character portraits have no place, simply that a nonstop diet of them is boring.
Sorry to have misdirected this thread. That certainly wasn't my goal. I took at look at the one link that has Issue 184 highlighted. That cover does indeed, tell a story. If you compare the current crop of art (which I'll call 3E style) to the "old school", then yes, it is vastly different. However, even some of the old covers were quite sylistic in their posing or were downright crappy. Again, my previous comments were simply that we've got a distinct difference between the generations. By possibly having a return of the "old school" artists for a year, that at least satisfies some of the current subscribers (like myself) and might encourage some of the younger generation to investigate the old-school artists and learn to appreciate the origins of fantasy gaming artwork. Unfortunately, we can't simply go back to the old school (as much as I'd like). When Brom first came out, I thought 2 things---wow, that's ugly, and two "this is really cool". After seeing more of his artwork, I came to appreciate it a lot more. It takes time. I'm not a Manga fan, so I can see how this new artwork draws unfavorable comarisons. Notwithstanding my dislike, the style will be here until the next wave of artists. Maybe what the Dragon/Dungeon cover editors need to consider is asking the new artists to consider incorporating a story with the picture, not just a pose as you have identified. I think your argument is that the style isn't bad, it's the substance. Maybe running a full year of "old-school" artists covers will shock the new artists into re-thinking how to paint a picture and tell a story at the same time. Again, my 2 cents only.
Aloha,
When I read this thread I started to post last night and decided instead to think about it before commenting. While it isn’t my magazine to do with what I would it is the labor of love of a number of people whose patience I don’t want to try and whose feelings I don’t want to offend. There seems to be some reading taking place here by the powers that be so I thought I would try to pen some observations.
Like Mr. Boyd I've been a Dragon reader for longer than I care to admit. I started with issue 22 and have been buying it off and on ever since. (More on this in a second.) I subscribed briefly only to fall prey to the early US Mail bundle problems that TSR experienced for a while. (Complaints fell on deaf ears until the local Postmaster sent a nasty letter and I got my back issues that had vanished.) I wouldn’t pretend that prolonged readership entitles an opinion but I wanted to establish a timeframe of experience.
Dragon magazine has for me been a pretty good barometer of how things are going for Dungeons & Dragons and the company publishing it. The covers especially capture this feeling. At times the magazine literally drew money out of my wallet with images that were breathtaking. Other times I could only shake my head as my eyes were assaulted with things that just should never have been published.
For me the new Dragon logo is pretty lackluster. It’s got all the “Wow!” factor of cold McDonalds fries as they lay in a sodden heap on grease soaked paper. It seems to resemble the old “The Dragon” logo from about 1980 but the soft curves of the letters really don’t carry any of the sharpness of the predecessor. It’s tepid.
The worst part for me is that the new logo smacks of some sort of attempt by a brand manager to re-cast Dragon to better synch with Dungeon. I chuckled a few minutes ago when as I clicked on the Dragon logo at the top left it promptly told me it was “Dragon Top Nav Branding”. It just confirmed my lowest expectations because…
If you wanted a logo that from 2 feet away makes it more difficult to tell the two magazines apart you’ve succeeded beyond your wildest dreams. My experience with the magazine trade is that the employee charged with magazine returns at a Borders is going to do more harm than good when they start confusing the two and sending back magazines early. (Did any of you consult with the magazine distributors before deciding on these logo changes?)
A magazine logo is as identifiable as the magazine itself. In comics the Fantastic Four, Amazing Spiderman and Flash logos all carry that sense of what the magazine is. Rolling Stone, Smithsonian or Air and Space also well represent what they are supposed to be. Like it or loathe it Games Workshop hasn’t screwed with the White Dwarf logo (or their own logo) in almost 20 years.
Cover art is only going to make things worse. If the logo blends in the problem gets worse. I remember early issues of the Duelest that were literally unreadable because the text vanished into the background art.
The cover art comes and goes in cycles. At one point it seemed that Caldwell, Parkinson, Elmore and Easley were the only artists being used. That’s changed but the grandeur of some of the great covers does seem to be lacking. The torso shot of a single character seems to be a dominating theme in recent years. (There are exceptions but it seems to be the rule.) It might seem serviceable but it gets dull.
A cover that stands out in my mind from early on was issue 49’s cover. That was the first time an artist of the caliber of the Hildebrandt brothers contributed work for the magazine. (The accompanying article was a great read.) Boris later did issue 52 which wasn’t as evocative but was still a bit above the norm.
I’m not saying that following the White Dwarf model of reproducing product art on the cover is the path to go. (It can work but isn’t the character of the magazine.
I’m sorry for being long winded but, like so many of your subscribers and readers, I have passion for this magazine that has been present for over 27 years of my life. (3/4ths for those of you at home.)
Regards,
Jim
P.S. (Hi Jenny.)
I have a comment regarding the cover of Issue #325. THAT'S what I'm talkin' 'bout, baybeee. This cover reminds me so much of the great ones from the 80's.
Thanks!
Erol Otus is my favorite.
--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
DungeonPS> After Jeff Dee.
OK, assuming that's true Erik, why don't we see these guys in the magazine more?
Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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All good things come to those who wait. We've been waiting for the right moment to strike. I've got fairly ambitious plans. We've contacted both Erol Otus and Jeff Dee, and both have expressed interest. So it's just a matter of time.
--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon
As Mr. Mona states, good things come to those who wait. I just saw the cover of the recent Dungeon in my FLGS and it was credited to Mr. Erol Otus. I knew right away from where that famous green devil face had come. Brought back flashbacks of Acererak and foolish adventurers touching the skull...assuming they made it that far. It is our collective experiences, coupled with this artwork, that trigger such wonderful memories. For me, it brought a big grin to my face. Given that Mr. Mona states that Jeff Dee is around the corner, I think it a credit to all at Paizo who listened to these suggestions. I hope that some other gaming companies take stock of our "roots" and employ the services of the GAWDFATHERS of D & D artwork. Goodman has Erol Otus; Elmore is used by a multitude. I see great things coming to pass. By the way, where is my recent issue of the Dragon? I always receive my issue 2 weeks prior to the FLGS receiving theirs. I saw a post in another thread that someone in Germany had his?? This isn't right. I live right here in the midwest where the distributors are located and should have received it.
MAY ALL YOUR HITS BE CRITS
I now have faith that Erik Mona will turn Dragon around so that it is on par with the mighty Dungeon Mag!
Go get em' tiger! :D
I now have faith that Erik Mona will turn Dragon around so that it is on par with the mighty Dungeon Mag!
Go get em' tiger! :D
I couldn't agree more. I like Erik's style, and I love what Dungeon has turned into.
As for Dragon covers: can't we just go back to the title and a cool page of art. I have about 6 older dragon magazines on my wall at school from below 100 and the kids are completely captured by the art and always want to buy them from me. The only thing on the cover is art work and Dragon. Why do we need all the other stuff?
Lot's of great comments. I'll keep mine short.
1) I must agree that the new magazine logos stink. Bring back the old.
2) I'm all for Erol Otus but if I never see another Elmore or Easley piece it will be too soon. There is something to be said about moving on and getting some fresh talent. Otherwise you run the risk of making the game look stale.
3) One issue that has hardly come up at all is the elimination of all the text on the cover of the magazines. I can understand keeping the name of the magazine but all the rest can go. Some magazines print all that on the plastic sleeve the magazine comes in. How about trying that?
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Putting the magazines in "polybags" (those plastic bags) is pretty expensive. Printing on those bags is even more expensive. Plus, they prevent the reader from flipping through the magazine.
Check out the cover for #326, which should appear on the site in a week or two. Sean and I decided to test a cover with ZERO coverlines, mostly because we fell in love with the art.
If sales on that issue are bad, the chances of us doing this again are effectively zero.
I love "wordless" covers as much as everyone here, but I've also got to look out for the bottom line. #326 is an experiment. If it's successful, we may very well do more covers without coverlines. If not, we won't.
But we're definitely giving it a try.
--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon
Check out the cover for #326, which should appear on the site in a week or two. Sean and I decided to test a cover with ZERO coverlines, mostly because we fell in love with the art.If sales on that issue are bad, the chances of us doing this again are effectively zero.
Awesome.
I was always pretty fond of the late '80s-early '90s Dragons, with the minimal cover text aside from the masthead and a short 'teaser' line near it (#138 and #191 are good examples.) "Halloween greetings from the Undead" in small type and out of the way of the artwork might not be as informative as "James Wyatt on Creating Eberron" and three other blocks of relatively-large text plastered across it, but it was enough to hint at the feature contents and get me to look at the mag.
(I realize you try your best not to cover up the artwork, and I appreciate that, but the large amount of big text in contrasting color can't help but detract. #325 is a great cover, but it would look better if there were no text below the masthead region -- the letters in the mid-left are just mildly distracting, but the text in the lower left covers some detail. The barcode does too, but that can't be helped.)
Anyway, I very much hope this experiment proves successful.
How about a wallpaper gallery? I love the Warduke painting, but can't find a good clear image of it anywhere. Oh yeah, and maybe some other covers, too. =)
I am in agreement with Yamo on this one. I had always bought the Dragon Magazine for a long time. When the new 3E style of Dragon Magazine came out I was pretty unhappy. I thought that the look of the magazine was terrible and the artwork had no life to it. Needless to say #298 was the last issue I bought on a regular basis. I still would pick them up at the stand and look at them but I would never buy any. I think that there is a reason why alot of companies still use artists that do more of the epic fantasy type art. Even big name MMORPGs which probably have the widest range of fans often stick to the more traditional art. I honestly can't picture Everquest going with the artwork that was on some of the 3E style magazine covers.
I realize that the fine folks at Wizard were trying to stay hip with the times, but I mean come on. Fantasy is based off of things from our past mythologies. Set back in a more romantic, epic and heroic time. Can you imagine if Peter Jackson would have had Aragorn dress up like that guy on page 94 of the PHB wearing what looks like a leather jacket? Or had multiple piercing like some of the other characters I have seen illustrated in 3E art? That would have just killed the mood and it would not have been taken as seriously. Lord of the Rings and D&D are about epic high fantasy, not Escape from New York with swords.
When I heard that Paizo was taking over and was doing a new look I got some hope. Now that I have seen the result of that, all I have to say is good work Paizo! I can see that the quality of the magazine has already went up. And the artwork has been very good. It also makes me feel good to know that Erik Mona is an admirer of the older artists. I think this magazine has a great future with Paizo and the current staff and feel it will finally get back on track and become great like it once was. Once I get my kids Christmas taken care of I will be subscribing ;)
I would like some variety for the covers. Why not an occasional old style cover amongst the newer stuff? I can't say that I like the cartoonish covers, but I buy it anyway, since I find something useful nearly everytime. I do like the more distinctive name on the cover.
BTW, I work at Borders and our periodicals guy is a pretty bright guy. ;)
The covers for #325 and #326 are so much better than those for the last 3 years or so! These covers bring back the flavor of the great covers from the 80's and early 90's. Thanks!!!!
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I have just received issue #326 today in the mail. I haven't finished reading it because on the first few pages they told me to come to the paizo.com message boards. Too many distractions. But, I just grabbed a dozen or so most recent issues off of my desk, and will consider them in order (ignoring the vast majority of my issues stretching back to 132)[I have one earlier, but the cover fell off]
326 - The cover is beautiful. The background is a little dark, but we have a group of heroes fighting something that certainly looks evil. There is some exposed flesh, but there is nothing indecent about it.
325 - The wizard is a little intriguing, and there are background details that add to the "fantasy feel" of the magazine. But despite that fact there isn't a lot of oomph! The text is tucked out of the way. Definitely decent.
324 - Another good cover. The text is a little large, but it doesn't obscure the cover art. Good detail, and it definitely has a fantasy feel. The snow covered woods adds tremendously to this feeling.
323 - Pretty lame. I can tell it is a dragon. And he is coming through the magazine. Still, it is mostly blank space. There are no text blocks, but this is a cover that a text block wouldn't hide or conceal anything, since there isn't anything to get in the way of. The actual effect is kind of neat, but it isn't the "high fantasy" look that I crave.
322 - We see a mysterious figure infront of a red/black storm. This cover definitely hurts because there is too much text on the sides. The "DO IT IN THE DARK" on the character's left shoulder is partiularly bad, since that is where most of the detail lies. This could have been better, but hte actual quality of the art is very high; better than 325 above.
321 - The artwork isn't bad, but there is definitely too much additional text. The artwork would have had a much better impact if the faces were centered, or at least dropped below the masthead, but in that case the side text would have been in the way. Side text is generally bad. Of, if it needs to be included, it should be smaller.
320 - 30 years of dragon and this is what you give us? Where is the background? Just black? I have the holographich cover from the 20th anniversary (or maybe that was issue 200? I've just disvoered it appaers to be missing. Not good.)
319 - Celebrating Athas, and the artwork fits in with that style. Still I would have liked more. An actual background would have been nice. I mean, I guess you can kind of see what is supposed to be a sun from the left edge, but it fades into the rest of the picture, so I'm not sure. Because it fits the game world, however, I can't really complain.
318 - The actual illustration is again good, but the background is kind of bland. I just now noticed the "asian dragon" motif. Far too subtle for the cover of a magazine.
Those are of course just my thoughts. I do think it is getting better. The worst covers are those like #299. I would consider that a warhammer feel, and no noticeable background.
Also, if you do want to put cover print, fine. Just include a full page of the cover as an interior page. The artwork is often inspiring. Showing pictures to my players can really help to set the mood. Showing them a text plastered cover doesn't immerse them the same way.
As long as James Ryman keeps doing covers, I'm a happy camper.
Just got 326. That's what I'm talking about, baby! No obstructions and a splendid piece that's more than just a character posing or making a constipated face. Happy days are here again!
Just picked it up myself. Agreed; it's a beautiful cover. I'm not usually a fan of overwhelmingly shadowy pics, but the play of light in this one is pretty striking. Very glad there's no cover text blurbs below the masthead; I think that would ruin the effect.
As someone who works in magazine publishing, I fully understand the underlying economic debate between unobstructed covers and attracting new readers on the newsstands.
While 326's cover art looks great, if I weren't already a regular reader I can't say that I'd be drawn to pick it up at the newsstand as it's rather generic-looking and doesn't adequately communicate what's inside. And what's inside is a pretty useful collection of articles, including solid features on dungeon delving, sewer exploration and labyrinths - representing something of a theme that's not captured on the cover.
Lacking the usual cover blurbs below the magazine logo - which personally, I don't understand all the gnashing of teeth over; it's clean, distinctive and scalable - standalone artwork has to do double duty to draw new readers in. Of course, that requires a solid, long-term editorial vision that offers artists enough lead time to create appropriate artwork.
Not sure how feasible it would be from a budget perspective, but one option would be to produce an unobstructed cover for subcribers, and a separate one, with cover blurbs, for newsstand distribution. Even gives a little added incentive to subscribe, while not potentially losing newsstand sales because of ineffective artwork.
$.02
#326 arrived today for me. That's two Dragon covers in a row I've liked, which makes it the longest string of Dragon covers in a row I've liked since probably whenever there were last two Elmore covers in a row.
#325's cover was really awesome. Possibly my favorite cover in the 3E era (though Elmore's halfling rogue cover is some mighty strong competition). I also liked the interior art for #326's Spellcraft/Academy of Apprentices article. Getting two pointy-hatted wizards in two months is very cool.
I just hope that doesn't use up our quota of pointy-hatted wizards for the next decade or so. Cuz, really, while I don't need one *every* issue, 5 or 6 six a year somewhere in the magazine and maybe one every 12 to 18 months on the cover would be nice.
I was doing some fall organizing this past week, and uncovered a box of old Dragon Mags that go back to 1984/1985.
What struck me is how the older covers were fanciful, and artistic they had NOTHING to do with the content of the issue, and more over they often depicted scenes that could not be found in a dungeons and dragons game unless you had made up some serious house rules.
Like little 4 inch high (wingless) human looking primitives riding poisonous frogs. ( I love that cover, but there is no such race in first edition D&D
How about the cover that was ripped off from a scene from the Lord of the Rings. The dragon on the bridge in the dungeon, fighting with the armored centaur. The dragon was not even like a D&D dragon, it was missing an entire set of limbs, and an armored centaur in first edition? yeah right.
For my money, I like the new covers a whole lot better. They are still artistic, and vary in style from a pulp comic feel to creepy (I dont know why but the cover with the warforged face just gives me the heebee geebees).
As a one time wanna be artist who didnt quite cut the mustard, I think the new covers are great. As a long time gamer I think the new covers are awesome!
My God, they were beautful. Yes, beautiful. There's just no other word for it. Sweeping, uncluttered, panoramic vistas of fantasy worlds that, to this day, make me want to get out there and play like nothing else. They've fired my imagination for years.
The covers since 3E are just terrible. So stale. So trite. So...souless. Just figures in poses. No insight. No feeling. No WORLDS.
The constant theme of one or two NPCs in a “cool” pose on Dragon covers over the last three years has become tiresome... Oh, so tiresome. Don’t get me wrong, the artists are great, they turn out quality stuff, even the cartoonish stuff is good in it’s own way. The problem is I’ve grown weary of seeing the same pose over and over again, and I’m tired of being attacked by the subject of the cover art.
The recent covers do nothing to fuel my imagination anymore. I used to build whole adventures and entire campaigns off of one piece of cover art. Now I’m lucky if they give me a good idea for a character or NPC. Issues 326 and 327 were a welcome departure from the current theme, but covers like that are too few and far in-between.
Dragon, please bring the fantasy landscapes, complex backdrops, and hair-raising encounters back to your covers. A little variety isn’t too much to ask for, is it?
I've been pleased by most of the covers of both magazines. I usually enjoyed whatever was attacking me or posing on the cover. I rarely used it for...well...anything but I liked it none-the-less. As for text, it gives you an idea of what's inside which helps but the same can be done by simply opening it (provided it's not in a bag). I favor the more ornate font used for the titles over this bland block lettering but it hardly matters.
A little variety on the covers would be nice. People ultimately buy the magazines for their content but sometimes are just a turn off. An elderly wizard with a cliché pointy hat and pink magic just doesn't seem very current somehow. I would have likely expected his name to be Zordaz or some such 1970's movie reject name. The dragons themselves may get tiring...but let's face it...the magazine is called Dragon. All in all, I'm happy to see anything that doesn't look like it came from a fantasy B movie.
I started getting Dragon magazine from its very start. I really enjoyed the cover art. True, alot of it looked sort of cartoonish by todays standard, but if you played back then most art available in the fantasy genre was cartoonish. Today the cover art is beautifully done. I just wish they didn't clutter the beautiful art with inside content! Thats what a table of contents is for inside the book! Otherwise, I thourghly enjoy yesterdays masterpieces, and modern time mind photos. But I still lean to the past when Dragon only stamped their Name on top and left it at that:)
Windy
For what it's worth, when I "discovered" that Dragon was still around, I didn't buy the first few issues because the art seemed uninteresting (and, to be fair, because I hadn't played the game for almost twenty-years and wasn't interested in buying a whole new set of books when all my rowdy friends done rowdied on down. . .). I miss those old covers, especially the ones with the "chess" motif. They were incredible. Or, one that stands out in my mind, the one with the black dragon and the elfen woman with the lyre. . .those covers were very emotive. These just seem like they were taken from "magic: the gathering"--not that I have anything against the art there as well. The older paintings seemed like they could exist somewhere--the new ones are too comic-bookish. I am glad that I did finally buy an issue, and I buy them primarily for the articles--hey, where have I heard that before--but it would be nice to see some of the older artists (and their vision) come back.
Alright, I suppose I must throw my 2cp in also... I prefer the epic fantasy scenes over the heroes-in-pose. Issue #328 was the perfect example of something I didn't like: dull, muted colors, mediocre art, and a scene that looks like it was just made to match the magazine's theme. Not a good combo. I don't think the scene necessarily has to have action; the dark creeper in #322 was good; but the adventurer party is getting old.
"I miss those old covers, especially the ones with the 'chess' motif. They were incredible. Or, one that stands out in my mind, the one with the black dragon and the elfen woman with the lyre. . .those covers were very emotive."
This is a really, really good point and strikes right at the heart of why I creatd this thread. If Dragon covers invoke any kind of emotion now (which is highly debatable), it's limited to what could be descibed as "badassness" or "kewlness." You have a character or creature posed as though it's about to really put the hurt on somebody.
This is fine occasionally, but I guess what I really miss about the Dragon of old was that it wasn't afraid to play on other emotions, as well. There were a lot of covers that played to feelings of beauty, majesty, wonder, whimsey, mystery, ect. Some examples:
http://www.philsp.com/data/images/dragon_magazine.jpg
http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/imageserver.x/00000000/gammm/d115x.JPG
http://members.aol.com/gamepicks/tsrdm056.jpg
http://i7.ebayimg.com/01/i/03/4e/3e/c0_12_sb.JPG
http://store.jaquays.com/thorn_world.jpg?
All of these paintings have more going on emotionally than "Monster/NPC of the month will f*** you up! Grr!"
That's what I'd like to see come back, basically.
Oh, and I found another, slightly angrier rant, as well. It's an okay read: http://www.mythosa.net/ART_DragonMag.html
Thanks for keeping this topic alive!
I've been a reader of Dragon since hte 80's and I would personally like to see a return to having a dragon on every cover...
Bolie IV
My wife had something interesting to say about D&D art in general. After looking at my stack of Dragon Mags and through a few of the books, she noted:
"Wow, nobody is happy in this game, are they?"
After pointing out her grammatical incorrectness, I took a look through the Magazines. She's right! Noboby is happy on the covers of Dragon, everybody is angry. Not since 3e, anyway. Maybe this is one problem?
I wouldn't mind a bonus art issue. It would have all of the covers since you stopped putting the cover art inside the book, that is without the upc and all the asides.
Do you think that is a possibility? I would love nothing more than to have the Medusa of Issue 329 lounging on my desktop as wallpaper.