Depressing, simply depressing...
and yet, genuinely funny.
"Can't believe anyone could have a problem with wil's article.To invite us into this small picture of his life and experience with our game and how it can truly impact us,if we only could stand back and watch ourselves from the sam point of view as wil."
That's exactly what I don't like about it. It's just creepy. Much to Dr. Phil.
ASEO out
I am sorry, I have been purposely avoiding this thread. I must say, I am glad that a google search brought me here accidentally. Whoever did this with the avatars, my hat is off to you.
I was curious as to why the article wasn't running in the pages of Dragon instead.
As are many of us.
While Wil's article may not be 100% D&D content, I feel that it is entertaining, and that is reason 1 I pick up the book. To enjoy my seven bucks worth of reading. I'm glad there's something in thete that makes me laugh because of word structure not comical art and snappy captions.
The folks hating on Wil's column are most likely the same ones that wear I hate wesley shirts at conventions. SMOF!
This is an interesting phenomenon. “If you dislike Wil Save, or even Wil Wheaton, it must be because of Wesley Crusher” Wil even perpetuates this on his blog. After reading his entrance story about the “cute-but-not-beautiful girl in her early 20s. Bleached-blond, fake tan, long legs. Hooters.” Hooters waitress, you are given two choices
1. Enter “I love you, Wil Wheaton! Let's be friends!
Or
2. Exit “You're lame, Wil Wheaton. I hated Wesley, and I hate you.”
Is it not possible to dislike Wil’s writing without disliking a fictional character he portrayed? Personally I think Wil is a better actor than writer, but he and his fans are all sure that any fault found with Wil must be because of Wesley. All his failings must be because of Wesley. If you don’t like Wil, it must be because you don’t like Wesley. That is quite a scapegoat. And the best thing about it is that it places blame on a person that doesn’t exist. I don’t know whether to cheer for Wil because he has found the perfect cop out, or pity him because he fails to take responsibility for any failings he may have.
I can see him trying to open a jar with a stuck lid muttering “Damn you Wesley Crusher. Why did you have to put this lid on so tight?”
Wesley Crusher has never had anything to do with Wil Save, other than Wil continually drags the character up to lament his problems. If Wil Save had ever been about been about D&D, and not Wil Wheaton’s personal trials and tribulations, the topic would never have come up. Wil, let go. Write a Side Trek!
ASEO out
Side Trek people…not Star Trek.
NOOOOOOO!!!! I was busy on April 1 and couldn't log in... What was going on?! :-( Someone please tell me before I cry... *sniff*
Senior Software Developer
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NOOOOOOO!!!! I was busy on April 1 and couldn't log in... What was going on?! :-( Someone please tell me before I cry... *sniff*
Hee hee. This was probably one of my favorite all-time April Fools' gags. Simple, but effective.
In this thread only, we changed everyone's avatar image to a random image swiped from the art for the Wil Save column. (You can now select from those images as your avatar if you like.)
We also changed everyone's title from "Subscriber" or "PostMonster General," etc., to a random title, e.g.,:
- Coauthor, My Life With Wil
- Wil's Gambling Buddy
- That's Mr. Wheaton to You
- Wil's Best Friend
- Wil Wheaton Understudy
- Inventor, +1 wand of winning
- Met Wil in Vegas
- Touched Wil's Dice
- Dances With Wil Save
- Celebrity Geek
- Liked Wil in Stand by Me
- Wil's DM
- Played Dead Guy on CSI
- Celebrity Poker Fan
- Critical Threat
You could also be "President, Wil Wheaton Fan Club". There were various titles like "Commander," "Ensign," "Charter Member," etc., and a collection of nefarious organizations, such as:
- Wil Wheaton Fan Club
- Save Wil Save Foundation
- Star Fleet Academy
- Committee for the Preservation of Wil Save
- Jar Jar Fan Club
- We Love Wil
- United Federation of Planets
- Star Fleet
- WILS Radio - All Wil Save, All the Time
- Save Wil Save Committee
- Free Wil Save
- Wil Wheaton's Posse
A grand time was had by all, and I'm sure ASEO has since recovered from the trauma. :-)
Oh my. That's evil. I approve. :-D
So - who's read Wil Save this month? :smirk: He even talks about D&D.
I thought it was an interesting read myself.
So - who's read Wil Save this month? :smirk: He even talks about D&D.
I thought it was an interesting read myself.
Zherog -
My husband has resubscribed after a long time of us supporting our FLGS, but we haven't received this issue yet (it should be the first of our subscription). As soon as I've received it and had a chance to read the column I'll let you know what I think. I've actually been stuck home with the flu for almost two weeks, so I'm hoping it's in the mail tomorrow, I could use some new reading material.
- Ashavan
So - who's read Wil Save this month? :smirk: He even talks about D&D.
I thought it was an interesting read myself.
Actually, he name dropped Hommlet and then spent the rest of the aricle discussing the virtues of LARPing; which to say, no, he didn't talk about D&D whatsoever.
So we're left with another article in which Wheaton dodges the one responsibility he was entrusted with.
But then, most of us are used to it by now...
*shrug* I don't consider "True Dungeon" at GenCon to be LARPing.
Okay, ASEO (is that Spanish for “the Butt”?) now you have gone and done it! You have resurrected the Evil Joker who is Jaegyr! I have tried to sit back and just let this play out, people b!tch!ng and complaining one way or another about this “Wil Save” column, watching and observing, maybe it would amount to something worthy of placing within my DUNGEON magazine…
Well, I have remained silent for long enough and given this putze his chance, but now ASEO has convinced me that the time has come! DUNGEON needs to lose this loser! I don’t know if the DUNGEON staff are playing butt-snorkel with this guy because he was a two-bit child actor who claims he plays D&D (or did, I still can’t really tell ya because his articles are worthless) and I hope they aren’t paying him for his material because I say give your money to ASEO, if he thinks he can do a better job.
But the point is that we don’t need this type of column in DUNGEON! It just doesn't seem to gel with the rest of the magazine. DUNGEON has always been about DMing for me! How to do it better, with more insight, with more utility. If I wanted this kind of muck to read, I would buy DRAGON, which it’s articles like this which caused me to canx my DRAGON subscription!
"Wil Save" doesn’t seem to add anything to the gaming experience for me, except maybe allowing me to look at HIS gaming experience, which really are not that interesting! Wil Wheaton's articles just are a load of rubbish which don’t enhance the game in any sense.
I have heard folks complain that you can’t get hung up about using everything in the DUNGEON magazines, but at least sometime or another I might use it or get inspired by something, but I just don’t see the value to these “Wil Save” articles…their not funny, their not touching (and if they do touch you, I don’t want to know about it!), and the guys at DUNGEON just need to get some real talent and stop pontificating to this has-been!
Well, that’s me popping silk…I’m out of here and ASEO, keep up the great work fighting for the real players in the house!
ASEO, you didn't convince me. You say that Wil Save should be in Dragon instead of Dungeon? I'm offended that you want to soil my Dragon like that. Shame on you! Wes...er...Wil's column belongs on his home computer where the people who care can read it all he wants.
It's actually the second thing I read when I get my issue (Erik's editorial is #1). I like that it adds a bit of humanity to the magazine... more power to Erik & staff for spicing things up a bit.
...now if they could spice up some Polyhedron action, I'd be mucho grateful.
Hehe.
ASEO, you didn't convince me. You say that Wil Save should be in Dragon instead of Dungeon? I'm offended that you want to soil my Dragon like that. Shame on you! Wes...er...Wil's column belongs on his home computer where the people who care can read it all he wants.
Here here, Jo'din!
It's actually the second thing I read when I get my issue (Erik's editorial is #1). I like that it adds a bit of humanity to the magazine... more power to Erik & staff for spicing things up a bit.
Zeb, shame on you! Do you really want to read about some other guy's sad life, how he can't compete with his step-kids real daddy, and his best reference to D&D is to talk about his "+1 Swizzle Stick"!
If you want "humanity" for the magazine, open it up to the readers to tell about their most memorable D&D evening, or take direct copies from the campaign postings from the measureboards which the editors found exceptionally funny!
That is the real D&D experience that I want to read about! Not the rantings of some two-bit child star who still thinks the world hates him for a character he played! Come on Wil, stop blaming Wesley for your freaked-up life! Again, DUNGEON better not be paying this poser for his input because they are getting ripped off! Give the game (and the Magazine) back to the players!
Stay Frosty and Watch Your Six!
DUNGEON has always been about DMing for me! How to do it better, with more insight, with more utility.
You may find this hard to believe, but that's exactly why I like the idea of Wil Save. I understand your point of view, I just disagree with it. :-)
Personally, I'm still in the "Keep Wil Save!" camp. With the exception of the first part of the con article, I've found something valuable in each and every edition of Wil Save. It's not necessarily the absolute best thing I've ever seen, but as a general rule I find the single page of Wil Save more valuable than the entire Class Acts section, for example. Of course, that's my personal view. Other people are free to disagree.
See, my thing is, I know the rules very, very well. I don't need crunch in Dungeon. I buy Dungeon for inspiration on how to run sessions, adventures, arcs, and campaigns. I need help figuring out how to motivate players in the right way. It's easy to write a "You meet in a tavern, and the adventurer's guild tells you to perform Mission X" adventure, but those aren't nearly as much fun as the adventures where the players themselves motivate the entire thing. So I don't need articles describing new spells, items, feats, or *shudder* prestige classes. I need articles about how to play the game. Wil Save fits the bill. It's not stated outright like the Campaign Workbook articles, but that doesn't mean that the advice isn't there. You just have to read between the lines. It's the difference between telling someone the parable of the sour grapes versus telling them "Don't be upset just because someone else has something you want and won't give it to you."
I'm not saying Wil Save is the greatest thing ever -- because it sure as hell has a lot of room to improve -- but it is more valuable to me than a lot of other things that could be in its place, like Maps of Mystery.
Okay, ASEO (is that Spanish for “the Butt”?)
Ouch. With friends like you who needs enemies?
I think it is actually something like "The Cleaner", but as you know it is't meant to be spanish.
Doesn't Jaegyr mean Headless Ranger/Druid in Goblin?
Stay Frosty Bro, Who knows when our path's may cross.
ASEO out
Good news, So far I have no Wil Save
Bad news, so far I have no latest DUNGEON.
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...keep up the great work fighting for the real players in the house!
As Otter, I'm still in the "Keep Wil Save!"-Camp. If that means I'm no real player, I'm proud of it (in fact it has been my second-best laugh since April 1. Good Joke, jester!
So Wil is finally speaking about D&D. And you know what? It's the first time I didn't enjoy the column. What I like in Wil's Save is the game vs.reality -references it usually contains. This time it was all about gaming. And I know quite well how to play a bard myself. Would have been interesting to read his songs but I hadn't the impression that he remembers the lyrics. And breakdancing when fighting a Giant Spider? This bard truly deserved death :) (I admit , that it could have worked against a humanoid - same reaction as with the cleric ^^).
So this was the first time the column meant nothing to me. And it was the first time I was really annoyed by Wil tapping on his own shoulders. If that's the way he talks about my beloved D&D, I can only hope he turns back to his old style , even if ASEO hates me for those words. ;)
I'm still in the same camp as before, everyone can have a bad day. But if that's the way things are going, the're going awry.
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I have to say that I found this one to be the least objectionable so far, though I am still against the inclusion of the article in Dungeon.
I think it would be better in Dragon, and best removed completely.
This most recent article was how "Live Dungeon" has the elements of a "real" game. I don't know if I buy the premise, but the idea of people opening up their gaming horizons is okay for a "guest editorial" or something.
In all honesty, it constantly sounds like he wants us to all play something other than D&D. GURPS (couldn't do it, I like my non-d6s too much) or Magic the Gathering....
It's not necessarily the absolute best thing I've ever seen, but as a general rule I find the single page of Wil Save more valuable than the entire Class Acts section, for example. Of course, that's my personal view. Other people are free to disagree.
Otter, my friend, whether you know it or not you have basically agreed with the "Anti-Wil" Camp's battle-cry! You say that you find more value in the Wil Save articles than the Class Acts Section...I personally don't agree with you but go ahead and press with the idea of replacing the Class Acts section in DRAGON with the Wil Save articles, and get that worthless piece of rubbish out of our DUNGEON! Again, to quote some of my peers, I don't think that smeg article should appear in any magazine, but at least exile it to the last page of a magazine that I don't have a monthly subscription!
Stay Frosty!
Doesn't Jaegyr mean Headless Ranger/Druid in Goblin?
Good news, So far I have no Wil Save
Bad news, so far I have no latest DUNGEON.
Ouch...let's not get personal here!
Dude, someone must be doing you a favor in some perverse way?
Haven't read it either...but I predict Wil Save has nothing of value to add, and that it still has no place in our DUNGEON!
Can I hear an AMEN!
As Otter, I'm still in the "Keep Wil Save!"-Camp. If that means I'm no real player, I'm proud of it.
So this was the first time the column meant nothing to me. And it was the first time I was really annoyed by Wil tapping on his own shoulders. If that's the way he talks about my beloved D&D, I...
Wormy, don't take it personally!
Hey, is your name a reference to the old Wormy comics? That's cool if you have been around since those days...I miss those comics, they had some great graphics!
You know I think ASEO will agree that it was articles like Wil Save that almost wound DRAGON Magazine in the old File-13! I have felt that just about every one of those article have been an attempt by Wheaton to "tap himself on the shoulders" and I predict you can only expect to see more of it!
Well, that is my opinion, for what it's worth and I apologize if anyone took that "real gamers" comment to heart...please don't go on to write an article in DUNGEON (or DRAGON, for that matter) about inconsiderate azzholes who hurt your feelings!
Stay Frosty!
I have to say that I found this one to be the least objectionable so far, though I am still against the inclusion of the article in Dungeon.
I think it would be better in Dragon, and best removed completely.
This most recent article was how "Live Dungeon" has the elements of a "real" game. I don't know if I buy the premise, but the idea of people opening up their gaming horizons is okay for a "guest editorial" or something.
In all honesty, it constantly sounds like he wants us to all play something other than D&D. GURPS (couldn't do it, I like my non-d6s too much) or Magic the Gathering....
I agree. This one was a bit better than all the others. Still, I have to go with Jo'din on this.
Shame on you! Wil's column belongs on his home computer where the people who care can read it all he wants.
Wil Save is still about Wil Wheaton, and not D&D, or really any other game either. In this last one he drones on about how his skills at improv "See, I'm still a good actor..." impress the waitress and thus get him goodies. Sounds a bit like he is trying to over compensate for the whole, "failed to impress the large breasted Hooter's waitress" episode.
Still this one was sort of about D&D in a round about way, maybe... I'm not familiar with the "True Dungeon", but it sounded more like a LARP...perhaps taking place in Greyhawk. Now I wonder, did Wil get to take part in this LARP because of his semi fame? I still get the feel of Wil saying "Yeah, I'm still a star, look at all the perks. And yeah, I even have to deal with fans, and anti-fans...I'm so Russell Crow."
Or maybe this is just another "Look hoe geeky I am story". Heck, most D&D gamers I know look at LARPers and sneer, "Dorks".
So, this page, like the rest will go the way of cleaning op cat barf. Any way you could print it on more absorbent paper?
ASEO out
P.S.
Fire the Wil Save artist! His illustrations make me want to gouge my eyes out with a Taco Bell spork.
You know, it really sucks that when I get my first issue on my subscription and I decide to start posting on these boards, and I want to snark about Wil Save . . . this months was actually about playing D&D, at least in a round about way. I still don't really like the column, but I can't attack this one.
Now last months . . . just becuase Wizards owns it doesn't mean Magic and D&D are interchangeable.
Oh well, I guess I'll see if the next issue continues Wil's newfound rememberence of what the column was suppose to be. Some months I think he just cuts and pastes stuff from his blog and then adds a sentence to make is seem "gamer"
I'm not familiar with the "True Dungeon", but it sounded more like a LARP...perhaps taking place in Greyhawk. Now I wonder, did Wil get to take part in this LARP because of his semi fame? I still get the feel of Wil saying "Yeah, I'm still a star, look at all the perks. And yeah, I even have to deal with fans, and anti-fans...I'm so Russell Crow."
True Dungeon is an event every year at GenCon (and, apparantly, at GenCon SoCal). Anybody who has registered for GenCon can participate - but if you're planning on going to GenCon Indy and want to participate in True Dungeon, make sure to get your tickets early - from what I understand it sells out very quickly.
I've seen True Dungeon described as, "sort of like a LARP, but not really." Now, I've never LARPed so I don't have a point of reference there. I've also never participated in True Dungeon - my first year at GenCon I didn't know about it; my second year, I didn't know you had to purchase tickets in advance. I've heard lots of good stuff about it, even from people who have professed to despising LARP. However, my own second hand annecdotal information is most likely useless to everybody. ;)
Zherog said:
However, my own second hand annecdotal information is most likely useless to everybody. ;)
And yet it is still more relevant that 90% of Wil's columns . . . go figure.
And yet it is still more relevant that 90% of Wil's columns . . . go figure.
You can say that again!
Zherog said:
However, my own second hand annecdotal information is most likely useless to everybody. ;) And yet it is still more relevant that 90% of Wil's columns . . . go figure.
Yes. This is so very true. I do like Wil but I don't really want to read about Wil's experiences, neither in nor out-of-game. If Paizo would like to keep Wil Save, I'd move it over to Dragon. I think it would be more appreciated there. Besides, Wil Save doesn't add any DM material to the magazine. It's just fluffy stuff.
--Ray.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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On the pile of "things we'll do again as soon as we can afford to."
It's not an either/or proposition. A full-page map is much more expensive to run than a one-page column (by Wil or anyone else). I don't have the budget I did when we were running Maps of Mystery frequently, so I decided to stop doing them for a while.
My hope is that the increased subscription and newsstand numbers (probably in part due to people checking out the magazine due to Wil's column) will convince my managers to raise Dungeon's art and editorial budgets so that I can afford to do things like Maps of Mystery again.
Until then, they remain in the on deck circle.
I should note that I don't view Maps of Mystery and Wil Save as mutually exclusive. If I had the money to do the Maps, I would probably do them _and_ Wil Save.
--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon
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First off, I'd like to apologize if it seems we're whiney, rude, or disrespectful. When communicating via written text, it is easy to allow the appearance of emotions that are not intended to slip through.
And, as you realize, most of us actually LOVE the hobby. There is a reason I spent over $200 (seemed like it was close to $300) to get a 3 year subscription to both magazines. Now, I don't really imagine that many of us could hope to do a better job (though I do think I have a keen eye for editorial mistakes - they leap out at me), but we're generally curious about how things work.
Generally, revealing things like business practices makes companies uncomfortable, but I know we'd all like to see how the decisions get made. I know I don't mind paying money to the magazines - I think I get a good value for my money. Still, I wonder things like - what would be the cost of the magazine if there were no advertisements? Do they pay 1/3, 2/3 or some other amount of the actual production cost? How much does a feature cost relative to other features? Comics are said to be expensive, Wil Save is less so, and Maps of Mystery are also fairly expensive. Is there any chance some of this mystery can be revealed?
ASEO has said he'll stop complaining for a while once he learns how long the Wil Save contract will run - and I think most of us feel the same way. There is no point in complaining if the issue is already decided - particularly if it is not due to be revisited for a long time.
So, is there any chance there can be some kind of "Answer Session" about what goes into the magazine? Maybe the ads pay for all the salaried staff, but actual magazine price goes toward the purchase of submissions? Of course, there has to be profit somewhere or the magazine wouldn't exist. If there is any chance we can get information about this, I'm sure that generally we'll be able to understand your position a little more, and complain a little less.
Thanks for even taking the time to consider it.
My hope is that the increased subscription and newsstand numbers (probably in part due to people checking out the magazine due to Wil's column) will convince my managers to raise Dungeon's art and editorial budgets so that I can afford to do things like Maps of Mystery again.
Well there is the answer to one of my three questions. The reason Wil Save was added to DUNGEON is purely that it was believed that having the name Wil Wheaton on the magazine would increase readership...even if Wil Save has nothing to do with the quality work that has been traditionally published in DUNGEON
OK, Has it increased readership?
Now only two of my original questions left.
1. If your goal was to increase readership via name association, Why Wil Wheaton versus any other famous gamers, or a mix of several famous gamers?
2. How long will the Wil Save experiment continue to run?
Once again, DUNGEON is my greatest DM resource, and has been for since it's first issue. I just hate to see it diluted by fluff. But if one page of Wil Save proves to be an means to an ends which allows for the return of old favorites such as Maps of Mystery, Critical Threats, Side Treks and introduce new features like Battle Maps and other useable DM tools, then I’m fine with it. So far though, I’ve not seen the return on the investment.
ASEO out
If you want to cut costs, fire the artist for Wil Save.
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Chief Technical Officer
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What would be the cost of the magazine if there were no advertisements?
There's no simple answer to questions like that. Magazine costing is all a great big balancing act where the most important variable - sellthrough - isn't entirely predictable. Imagine, hypothetically, that we increased the price of the mag significantly without making changes to page count. The increased price would certainly result in fewer newsstand sales, which would mean we'd have to print fewer copies, which would mean our printing costs would go up on a per-issue basis, which means the profit margin will change in a complex and hard-to-predict way. And then, in addition to that, there would be an unpleasant - but somewhat easier to predict - effect on subscription revenue. What I do know for sure is that without advertising, there's no possibility we'd be publishing our magazines.
Another thing I can tell you is that we currently get more revenue from newsstand sales than from subscriptions, and more revenue from subscriptions than advertising. However, the costs associated with fulfilling the newsstand copies are by far the highest; the costs of subscription fulfillment are significantly less, and the cost of providing the advertising is relatively very low, so the ad sales provide a large chunk of the profit margin.
I will also tell you that the cost associated with providing Wil Save is, as far as the bottom line is concerned, almost totally insignificant. It's less than a rounding error in the cost of paper for an issue.
-Vic.
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On the pile of "things we'll do again as soon as we can afford to."
It's not an either/or proposition. A full-page map is much more expensive to run than a one-page column (by Wil or anyone else). I don't have the budget I did when we were running Maps of Mystery frequently, so I decided to stop doing them for a while.
My hope is that the increased subscription and newsstand numbers (probably in part due to people checking out the magazine due to Wil's column) will convince my managers to raise Dungeon's art and editorial budgets so that I can afford to do things like Maps of Mystery again.
Until then, they remain in the on deck circle.
I should note that I don't view Maps of Mystery and Wil Save as mutually exclusive. If I had the money to do the Maps, I would probably do them _and_ Wil Save.
--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon
And this is of course contrary to what we were promised about 3 months ago when it was stated that things like "Critical Threats" and "Maps of Mystery" would appear every OTHER month but never appeared again. As for the rhetoric that Wheaton is actually increasing your subsciptions and newsstand numbers, I've seen absolutely no evidence of this but rather the contrary. I, personally, know at 3 people who have failed to renew their subscriptions due to the lack of two really nice features and the unfortunate advirtisement that has implanted itself on the last page of the magazine. The gaming store I visit often has also stopped carrying Dungeon because (and this is a quote) "We have not sold a single issue in 3 months". I took a look at the racks and did find that a large number of past month issues were still piled up there. So as it stands at this point, I'm not subscribing to Dungeon and now I can't even buy individual issues if I wanted to. Interesting strategy you have ;).
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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I'm not going to get into sharing how much we pay for a map, how much we pay writers, how much we pay artists, etc. If you really want to know, I suggest writing or illustrating for the magazine, or finding some way to join the staff. I did it. It's not like it's impossible.
That said, on to the questions.
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The reason Wil Save was added to DUNGEON is purely that it was believed that having the name Wil Wheaton on the magazine would increase readership...even if Wil Save has nothing to do with the quality work that has been traditionally published in DUNGEON
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That is not what I said, though I can see how you might have taken it that way. We added Wil Save because we thought (and still think) Wil is a good writer who could offer a fresh perspective on the life of a gamer. He has done that. Rather than devote the page to another game industry professional, we wanted to take a different approach. Lots of magazines have a "lead out" with the last page. A fun bit of toilet reading to ease the reader out of the magazine. That's Wil Save, for us, and I think Wil does an excellent job of it.
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OK, Has it increased readership?
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That's impossible to say with certainty, but my suspicion is that it has helped the magazine far more than hurt it. There are the predictable cranks who post to this thread (and I say that in the nicest way possible), and there are a few people who have written letters, but the most frequent comment on Wil Save sent to us by mail (snail mail or email) is that it is a fun addition to the magazine. Many readers comment that it is the first thing they turn to.
If I counted the detractors who have posted to this thread and all of the people who write in with nice things to say about the column, my guess is that the group of people with nice things to say would be larger by at least double digits. Now, that's comletely unscientific, but it's as good an analysis as I can offer right now without more concrete data like a survey.
The magazine is improving by almost every metric I have to measure. Subscriptions are up. Newsstand "efficiency" (ratio of sold to unsold newsstand copies) is up. Ad sales are up.
What role does Wil Save play in that uptick (the first in several years, it's worth noting)? I'm not sure. My suspicion is that the column helps more than it hurts.
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1. If your goal was to increase readership via name association, Why Wil Wheaton versus any other famous gamers, or a mix of several famous gamers?
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I don't know that you could come up with "a mix of several famous gamers" who are also professional writers. The staff enjoyed Wil's blog for several years before asking him to write the column. Wil's book, "Just a Geek," is very enjoyable. Wil is a writer first and a celebrity second. Sure, his celebrity increased our interest in having him in the magazine, but it wasn't the only factor. If I didn't think the writing was enjoyable, I wouldn't be printing his columns.
I appreciate that mine is not a universally held opinion on his writing, but I'm the guy who calls the shots on what does and doesn't make it into the magazine, so it certainly helps something's chances when I like it.
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2. How long will the Wil Save experiment continue to run?
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For as long as both he and I are pleased with the arrangement. Which is to say that it's open-ended for now.
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Once again, DUNGEON is my greatest DM resource, and has been for since it's first issue. I just hate to see it diluted by fluff. But if one page of Wil Save proves to be an means to an ends which allows for the return of old favorites such as Maps of Mystery, Critical Threats, Side Treks and introduce new features like Battle Maps and other useable DM tools, then I’m fine with it. So far though, I’ve not seen the return on the investment.
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That's probably because we do not share detailed sales information, and at any rate the whole thing involves so many factors that it's nearly impossible to say "this month's Wil Save increased newsstand sell-through by TWO PERCENT! The readers really seem to like it when he talks about something other than poker! More like that!"
My job isn't quite as easy as that, though I sometimes wish it were.
--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon
... and now I can't even buy individual issues if I wanted to. Interesting strategy you have ;).
Individual issues can, as always, be purchased here:
http://paizo.com/dungeon/products/issues
Cheers!
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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And this is of course contrary to what we were promised about 3 months ago when it was stated that things like "Critical Threats" and "Maps of Mystery" would appear every OTHER month but never appeared again.
I'd be very interested in seeing the quote of me or anyone else promising that kind of regularity. I'm not definitively saying it never happened, but I don't remember saying that within the last three months at the very least.
In #114, I did say that each issue would contain a Critical Threat, but the truth is that we just don't get very many compelling NPC submissions. I hope to run more in the future. Again, I'd like to get more "Maps of Mystery" into the magazine, but that's unlikely in the near future (meaning the next four issues or so).
In the meantime, just about every map we publish is fit for re-use, making the whole magazine a collection of "Maps of Mystery."
As for the rhetoric that Wheaton is actually increasing your subsciptions and newsstand numbers, I've seen absolutely no evidence of this but rather the contrary.
That's laughable, I'm afraid to say. Of course you've seen no evidence, since the evidence I get is on massive spreadsheets that track newsstand and subscription data over the course of months and years. This is not public information, but you'll have to trust me when I say it is more reliable than your anecdotal evidence.
I, personally, know at 3 people who have failed to renew their subscriptions due to the lack of two really nice features and the unfortunate advirtisement that has implanted itself on the last page of the magazine.
After enduring a year of the Polyhedron "flip-flop" format and a couple issues that included only _one_ D&D adventure, these people have decided to bail out because we're not running as many Critical Threats and Maps of Mystery as we used to? Oh, and because one page has a Wil Wheaton article?
This after the four-part Greyhawk Map, the Shackled City Adventure Path, new peeks at Eberron from Keith Baker, Istivin: City of Shadows, Dungeoncraft, the Isle of Dread, and adventures from Andy Collins, Sean K Reynolds, James Wyatt, Robert J. Kuntz, Richard Pett, Greg Vaughan, Christopher Perkins, Tito Leati, and more?
Look, at a certain point I'm just not going to be able to win some people over. As much as that disappoints me personally, the magazine is going to have to figure out a way to survive.
The gaming store I visit often has also stopped carrying Dungeon because (and this is a quote) "We have not sold a single issue in 3 months". I took a look at the racks and did find that a large number of past month issues were still piled up there. So as it stands at this point, I'm not subscribing to Dungeon and now I can't even buy individual issues if I wanted to. Interesting strategy you have ;).
If these guys couldn't sell a single issue of the magazine in a period that included two installments of the massive World of Greyhawk map, that tells me more about how they manage their store than it does about the state of the magazine. We're selling the pants off those issues. In fact, they're doing so well that I would have said they "sold themselves," but the guys at your local game store have proven me wrong.
Back issues of the magazine, incidentally, are available at paizo.com.
--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon
"A fun bit of toilet reading to ease the reader out of the magazine."
So Wil Save belongs in the toilet? I couldn't agree more.
Sorry, lads, I just had to get my irritating, self-absorbed failed actor hate out there. :)
I love his articles. I connect with him when i read his articles. He seems to be a good guy who writes about d&d. Not rules or maps or how to create a baddy. Just plain old "this is whats fun about role playing".
keep at it !!
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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"A fun bit of toilet reading to ease the reader out of the magazine."
So Wil Save belongs in the toilet? I couldn't agree more.
Sorry, lads, I just had to get my irritating, self-absorbed failed actor hate out there. :)
The only real question was which one of you would quote that line first. ;)
--Erik
Erik, I do have to say, as much I would love for Wil's columns to be banished to Tarterus (can you imagine the kind of prison pen pal you could get there?) I have to say that the magazine overall is much improved, which is, of course why I am a subscriber now.
But Wil still rankles me . . .
"I have to say that the magazine overall is much improved, which is, of course why I am a subscriber now."
Well, yeah. I think people are really pleased with the mag overall. Maybe Wil Save even has value in that way. He's the one really irritating but ultimately minor thing in something you like anyway that you can recreationally mock whenever you've nothing better to do. Thundercats has Snarf, Star Wars has Jar-Jar and Dungeon has Wil.
I have played D&D since 1984 (red box set for christmas...) and i like Wil save... in fact the magazine should have more features like Wil save. D&D is a game but it is also a culture... that is why i love "order of the stick", and "full frontal nerdery" etc. They are about the culture of D&D, and the types of people who play. I read Wil, then Editorial, then letters, then advertisements - especially the full pages at the back, then adventure synopsis - it helps me feel up to date and connected to the larger gaming comunity. Hey sometimes i even read the adventures if i think i will use them. The point is, when you make a great magazine like dungeon, you have to include a variety of components in order to create a rounded reading experience.
I think Wil should do an article about the dreaded disagreeable gamer. Every game has one. You know the smarter than average guy who has to prove how smart he is by talking about how stooopid everything else is. The guy who is never happy unless he is ranting about someone else's failures. The guy who tends to dominate forums...err games with their negative opinions on everything... I love those guys they make forums ...er life interesting too! Usually their complaining is just mental bubble gum and shouldn't be too closely regarded.
I love the magazine, keep up the great work and if at all possible could we have 24 issues a year? I'd ask for weekly but that would probably be pushing it...
OK, My three questions have been answered.
1. Why Wil?
Because Erik Mona (who gets to make the call) thinks he is a good author who he considers a gamer.
2. Why DUNGEON?
Because DUNGEON apparently needed something to boost sales and it is believed, even though it hasn't been proved, that Wil Save is helping the magazine
3. How long will Wil Save remain?
For as long as Erik sees fit to continue to torment me with its existence.
The fact that I disagree with all the answers is immaterial because I have no ability to influence any of them.
Oh well, sometimes it just sucks to be me.
All I ask is that the blow be lessened by including more outstanding adventures by Wolfgang Baur and Greg V in DUNGEON. They are both truly incredible authors and produce the highest quality adventures.
ASEO out
Sometimes you play the cards you're dealt knowing that a +1 wand of winning won’t help. And despite the stupid wand you can still win.
2. Why DUNGEON?
Because DUNGEON apparently needed something to boost sales and it is believed, even though it hasn't been proved, that Wil Save is helping the magazine
ASEO, I have a lot of respect for your opinion, but you're just being petty here. ;-) You know that it's impossible to prove that Wil Save increased the readership, and that it's impossible even to make an educated guess without going through the massive spreadsheets etc that Erik has. You also know that Erik isn't going to give you (or any of us) a peek at those books. Can't you just take him at his word that he's run the numbers and feels that Wil Save is contributing to the improved performance of Dungeon? :-D
And now that I've finally received the newest Dungeon (only a week late, too!), I can say that I'm getting happier with Wil's writing again. Some of the intermediate articles were a little goofy, but the last couple have been good. So Erik, tell Wil to keep up the good work!
If these guys couldn't sell a single issue of the magazine in a period that included two installments of the massive World of Greyhawk map, that tells me more about how they manage their store than it does about the state of the magazine. We're selling the pants off those issues. In fact, they're doing so well that I would have said they "sold themselves," but the guys at your local game store have proven me wrong.
Yeah, I have to go with Erik on this one. In my area which is certainly far from the epitome of the gaming world, these issues were very difficult to find.
I think it is well established that Maps of Mystery were very much missed part of the magazine, especially the multi-part ones for me. But knowing the cost of art development and the quality of the maps we see on a monthly basis I can understand why Map of Mystery doesn't equal Wil Save.
I generally don't read Wil Save any more, I don't think he is a bad writer, I just think he has problems coming up with a really gotcha idea every month to keep me interested in the column. Which isn't the same thing as saying I hate the inclusion of Wil Save.
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ASEO, I have a lot of respect for your opinion, but you're just being petty here. ;-) You know that it's impossible to prove that Wil Save increased the readership
That's fine, I was just reitterating the point that whether readership is increased or decreased by Wil Save can't be proved. So that aspect is totally moo.
ASEO out
It's like a cow's opinion. Moo. It just doesn't matter.
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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All I ask is that the blow be lessened by including more outstanding adventures by Wolfgang Baur and Greg V in DUNGEON. They are both truly incredible authors and produce the highest quality adventures.
I've got completed adventures from both of them on my desk, just waiting to be slated into a specific issue.
Both have agreed to write an installment of the Age of Worms Adventure Path.
That work?
--Erik Mona
Editor-in-Chief
Dragon & Dungeon