ASEO=SOAE? (Special Operations Acquisition Executive) Nope. it is ASEO
I like the idea of a tactical map, but the idea of needing to remove that page from the magazine disturbs me. Now, I don't know what Wil is getting paid, but if that cost could be applied to the printing of a card stock tactical map of one of the encounter areas from one of the adventures in that issue. Man, I'd be all for that.
OH, and shoot the artist for Wil Save.
ASEO out
That was a very good column, ASEO. I've heard this idea before, but never as memorably as you presented it.
Like others, I am trying to find some redeeming value in Wil Save. The thing that bugs me the most about it is that any aging gamer could write the column. Everybody has their experiences to share, so I find little about Wil's articles that really appeals to me.
Perhaps if he had some truly unique experiences to share I might be persuaded that it's not a complete bust, but it is, and that what makes it all the more depressing.
Am I happy he has continued to play despite getting older and having a family and a job? Of course I am. Do I care to read about it on a monthly basis? Hell, no.
I know this is a little off-topic, but what *did* happen to TSR? Is there a place that I can read about that, because it seemed so out of the blue to me...?
Sure, this link has most of the story (as well as the rest of TSR/wizard's) history.
Also, this interview with Gygax gives a bit more info on the background of the sale/takeover by WotC. I have to say, though that there was some pretty bad blood between Gygax and Lorraine Williams, TSR's CEO at the time of the takeover, so I'd take it with a pinch of salt.
I've waited to read a few Will Saves before casting my vote. For now, I say keep it. A column such as this isn't intended to serve everyone.
(I doubt that all Entertainment readers like Stephen King's back page column. But he gives a fan+insider's perspective on the industry, rather than the same old box office report).
Likewise, Will is exploring life+gaming issues. Could anyone write this? Sure. But that's not the point. The point is someone other than a gaming insider is sharing their gaming experiences. That has merit, even if you don't agree with his viewpoints.
Does Will need to stretch himself? Explore other aspects and themes? Yes, and I hope he does. So far, he's only scratched the surface. There's a lot of material to be mined here, but it will take a lot of hard work (and insight) to really make this column jump.
But as I said, for now, I want to see more.
I do agree on the art critique mentioned earlier. No more drawings of Will in his undies. I read the magazine during my lunch break ... and that wasn't a pretty experience.
I have to agree with Troy, Wil's articles have to develop, and fast, otherwise we'll be stuck reading the same aging-gamer-gets-nostalgic-watching-his-kids-roll-dice and/or remember when we stayed up all night playing D&D schtick every time he sits down to type something for the column.
I'm not against letting something grow, but I've seen mold develop faster than this. Find those boundaries, mister, and cross them, pronto.
What Wil Save should be.
I love first level
I’ve been gaming for over 22 years now. In that time I’ve played hundreds of characters, and DMed hundreds of sessions. Through out all that time and all those games, I’ve learned something. First level Rocks!
OK, having now received my Dungeon 117 and read the new Wil Save, I have to say that ASEO's "article" was way better than Wil's. I'm normally a big fan of Wil's writing. He's generally quite good at bringing the reader into his story and making them interested. However, this issue's Wil Save was completely useless. I liked last month's article because it was a roundabout reminder to actually enjoy the game, not just minmax and try to slaughter things. This month's just seemed like whining. Maybe I'm just annoyed because I know Wil's capable of so much better.
All I know is, I just recently bought a subscription to Dungeon, because of (and only because of) Wil Save. I used to pick up the occasional issue, but now I want to read all of these columns.
ASEO, that was a good article as well. I guess it isn't about WW, but about having something different in DUNGEON.
I like Mr. Wheaton's column a lot. It's always a nice piece of funny writing.
Of course, it's not really part of the "mainstream" of the magazine, it's more of a comic relief, like it was a cartoon. DUNGEON is not that high on cartoons anyway; Mt. Zogon is fun, but inferior to Zogonia in DRAGON magazine - which has Dork Tower too... when it also had What's New, that magazine was packing the 3-GREATEST-RPG-RELATED-CARTOONS-EVER! Dungeon magazine pales in comparison. "Wil Save" is the only thing in DUNGEON to stand tall against such giants as Dork Tower and Zogonia. Really.
BTW, "Downer" is not funny. I guess it's approaching its finale, so... once it's over, don't ever do that again. Use those two pages for even more Campaign Workbook instead.
All I know is, I just recently bought a subscription to Dungeon, because of (and only because of) Wil Save.
That's an odd reason to get a subscription to a magazine. You don't park outside his house with a pair of binoculars do you?
:)
I rather like the Wil Save columns. Perhaps because I find myself at a similiar point in life.
An adult with time enough for an every other week game, and while I wish I had more time, I just don't.
Its nice to know there are other adults out there that love the game as much as I do.
Keep 'em coming Wil!
ASEO=SOAE? (Special Operations Acquisition Executive) Nope. it is ASEO
I'm guessing it has to do with being an Exec, something akin to being a pissboy.
I do agree with you about the column. It really is wasted space.
I'm guessing it has to do with being an Exec, something akin to being a pissboy.
Pissboy...Man, that would really suck, especially if you had to do it admist sandstorms, blistering tempetures, and unexploded ordinance in Iraq. I have all the pitty in the world for Execs. They never get the credit they deserve.
As for Wil Save, I think I'll try to write a "what it should have been" 1 page article after each one. His previous articles could have covered "Introducing New Young Players to the Game", instead of "Mushy Moments with My Step Son". Could have been "Using Modern References to Create a Mood", instead of "My Players Quote My Star Trek Lines". And "Using Other Game Systems to Inhance Your D&D Game" instead of "Look At All The Games I Can Name...See, I Really Am a Gamer."
All I ask is for something that I can actually use. Hell, even the ads for new products have more value than Wil Save.
ASEO out
As for Wil Save, I think I'll try to write a "what it should have been" 1 page article after each one. His previous articles could have covered "Introducing New Young Players to the Game", instead of "Mushy Moments with My Step Son". Could have been "Using Modern References to Create a Mood", instead of "My Players Quote My Star Trek Lines". And "Using Other Game Systems to Inhance Your D&D Game" instead of "Look At All The Games I Can Name...See, I Really Am a Gamer."
It seems to me that there's a deep misunderstanding here...
Come on, "Wil save" is NOT a "tips" columns. It's a piece of entertainment page with a "personal experience" theme. It started with a "heart warming" mood, then turned comic (much to my pleasure), but was never meant to provide us with useful tips. It's "just" a writer sharing his own life experience -- you may extrapolate "tips" of a kind, but won't find explicit gaming tips in it.
No misunderstanding here. Wil Save has no game value. I'm glad you agree. Entertainment value...not really. Anyone care whar I had for breakfast, or what beer I drink? I hope not, and I don't want to hear the idle ramblings of some random gamer. And the Crappy art for the column frigg'n sends me into fits and leaves me hacking like my barfing cat.
If DUNGEON feels it needs a pure entertainment page, how about notes from the playtesters of the adventures in that issue?
I know that I had some interesting notes from the DUNGEON adventure I playtested. It was very interesting to see the changes that came out in the actual published adventure. I'd really rather hear about how on initial playtesting an encounter turned into a TPK, and how it was fixed...or wasn't.
Anything but the current line Wil Save is taking.
ASEO out
Anyone care ... what beer I drink?
Maybe. ;) If it's something I've never tried, and it's something I can find in my area, and if it comes highly recommended - then yeah, I'm interested in knowing. :)
---and AND this one time in D&D camp....
Hey, as long as everyone gets laid in the end...I'm all for it ;-)
ASEO out
One of the things this game needs more than new maps, adventures, feats, prestige classes or what have you, is new blood. Either new players or old players, returning to the fold, are needed to expand the hobby, the potential sales base, player pool, etc. to keep the game vital and growing. To that end, I think more columns like Wil Save are needed. The core audience may alrady know what Wil has to say, but a casual reader picking up a copy on the newstand and flipping through may see something there that causes them to remember the good times thay had gaming, or pique their interest enough to want to learn more about the game and hobby. Wil's name alone will carry some recognition factor in the genral public (not a lot but some). If a one page column that discusses the coolness of gaming, or reminiscing about the good times or potential bonding with a child can help open some doors to new players then I am all for it, even if it means less crunchy stuff (in genral I like a balance of cruch and fluff, so I wouldn't really miss the crunch).
I have enjoyed Wil's articles, and I was very hesitant when I first heard about them. I turned to the back and read the first column with great trepidation when the first new direction issue arrived in my mailbox, and I have to say I was pleasantly surprised. The one caveat I have though, is that this type of column might be a better fit for the new Dragon, which is aimed at players rather than Dungeon, which is aimed at DM's(Dragon is more likely to be picked up by casual players/lapsed playes, or non-players with a passing interest, and probably has a wider circulation, and Wil's topics seem better geared to players than DM's from my point of view),but I do not know the factors which led to the decision to put it in Dungeon. Still, I think it is a good column and has value, and hope it continues to see print.
-M
I have yet to be wowed by Wil's column. I guess it's due to the fact that his experiences are pretty similar to my own and they lack the novelty they otherwise have for younger gamers.
I'm willing to support it for a few more installmets, though. Everything needs a while to fully germinate. Hey, every first season of a Star Trek series usually sucks, too ('cept for the first, no offense, Wil).
DND for me is about more then just playing the game. Having been a fan for so long I can barely contain my glee when I hear mention of DnD in other media sources. NPR plays a clip of canadian rappers singing about bad ass DM's, BBC world news broadcasts the sounds of an actual DND game in progress, Vin Diesal talking about his character in Details magazine or on Conan Obrians late show. These things thrill me.
When I first read Wils article I was thrilled again. I can remember when my own stepfather bought me a set of used DND books for my 12th birthday, being far to eager to wait until I had read the books, my step father GMed my first game. I enjoy Wil's article and have found it in many ways a mirror of my own roleplaying experiences.
(side note: My step father learned to play in prison. They could only use dominos for random number determination becuse dice were banned. So my first game involed no dice, dominos instead
My wife had a huge crush on Wil when she was a kid. She wrote him a fan letter and received a letter of return. She keeps it locked away with other momentos of her childhood. She enjoyed seeing Wil in the magazine way more then myself. The article is the only intrest my wife has ever shown towards DND, after years of trying to convince her that its fun I will take what I can get.
After work last night I found Wil talking about being a geek on VH1's Best of Times "Geeks" show. It was cool to see him on the show. I did not see him mention DND but I did not catch the entire show. It did mention that he was the author of a book however. I forget the name but I may have to pick it up.
Holy Cr@P! I just read the latest Wil Save. A whole page to say "I made a D&D Reference while playing poker with my millionaire buddy in Vegas". Wil's article just keeps getting worse. Stick it on the web page and replace it with a tactical map in the magazine. I guess he is trying to say that he is such a gamer that D&D permeates every level of his "going to Vegas with millionaire buddy" life. Gee, Now there is something I can relate to. I wonder, when Wil shops, does he buy +3 Green beans of Healing...
I don’t play poker, couldn’t afford to lose $50, never been to Vegas, but I've known people who have had lucky charms. A guy I was in combat with in Iraq had a bullet with his name etched into it. He figured that as long as he had "The bullet with his name on it" that he'd be safe. We used that bullet when we played D&D in our limited down time while over there. I had a set of the tiny dice, my PHB, DMG and MM in my pack. We used spent cartridges as figures. One guy had a 50cal round he used as his barbarian. My above mentioned buddy used his inscribed bullet to represent his character. Grenade rings made decent large creatures, and 9mm casings were always good for goblins and the like. Sometimes we would use the candies out of MREs as foes. That way you could eat your kill.
Three books and some dice and you have game on. Back in the earlier editions a company even published mini core books and those were great because you could take them everywhere and easily keep them in ziplock bags to keep them dry. I've been to lots of remote places with the military, from the jungles of South America where we played using a variety of jungle nuts and berries as figures to the Middle East where expended ordinance make the figure stand in. I've used the folded cardboard figures as well, but there always comes a time when the game ends in a hurry, and there is not always time gather the pieces. I’ve played in foxholes, bunkers, nice hotel rooms, blasted Iraqi buildings, but of my games have been run in my dinning room. I've gone through my share of books. Some have been ruined by water, some by rot, some just get worn out, buddy’s dog ate one... But one thing I have learned is that where ever I went, there was always a dedicated group of gamers who wanted to play D&D, and with three books and some dice it has always been "Game On!"
ASEO out
...A friend of mine recently put in perspective. It's fluff vs crunch. My biggest complaint about Dragon and Dungeon is the over abundance of crunch. There's only so many new Prestige Classes I can use. There's only so many new Feats and Skills that I can use. I don't play the game just to see how big I can get the numbers. I play for social interaction and creativity. Fluff. Gygax's article was the first thing I turned to in Dragon before it was axed. I like the fluff and regret there is so little of it.
Hear, hear. The email I alluded to in my published letter (in Dragon 327) voiced my concerns regarding the "over abundance of crunch" that you mention. I would like to see more fluff in the mags, myself -- although I do think both magazines are a lot better than what I had imagined (feared?) when they announced what was coming. Yes, the adventures are fine in Dungeon and this is really more of a Dragon concern, but, I would like to see more "Up on a Soapbox" type articles in either magazine. I did not agree with EGG's "DM v. the Players" 100% either, but I still got a lot out of his column, more than a feat, spell, or prestige class can offer.
Mechanics define the game. Crunch (like sex) sells. Fluff completes the game.
Holy Cr@P! I just read the latest Wil Save. A whole page to say "I made a D&D Reference while playing poker with my millionaire buddy in Vegas". Wil's article just keeps getting worse. Stick it on the web page and replace it with a tactical map in the magazine. I guess he is trying to say that he is such a gamer that D&D permeates every level of his "going to Vegas with millionaire buddy" life. Gee, Now there is something I can relate to. I wonder, when Wil shops, does he buy +3 Green beans of Healing...
ASEO,
A few things:
1) You voiced your opinion on Wil Save. Do you now want the column supplanted with your own? I cannot comprehend the sardonic comment I quoted above. Just turn the page, dude. Besides, earlier you said "I just don't care." That's a lot of vitriol there coming from apathy. I'm just wondering and trying to figure you out. Maybe you're not as geeky as other gamers, like you said. Maybe you need to assimilate?
Truth be told, Wil Wheaton can come across as pompous, IMO. I have seen him on Unscrewed, The Weakest Link, the aforementioned show regarding "Geeks", etc. He is a geek like me (over 30, married, a father figure), but a bit too haughty for my tastes. I still like his column, though.
2) ASEO:
[URL]http://www.acronymfinder.com/af-query.asp?String=exact&Acronym=ASEO& ;Find=Find[/URL]
I'm picking "Army Systems Engineering Office".
3) As for your military service, thank you. My brother served in the USMC for 8+ years. Having him off the coast of Somalia, Yemen, etc. was more than nerve-wracking but he chose to serve. At least, now (I assume, in your case) you are both home and can enjoy D&D like us civilians. :)
I, for one, admire ASEO's tenacity in speaking his mind about the Wil Wheaton column. I am very much in agreement with him about this topic and he is obviously a long time buyer of this magazine, as am I. I don't think he is trying to "toot his own horn", he feels very strongly about this column (I am sure ASEO can speak his own mind)and it's rightful place is not in my fav magazine. There is going to be constant disagreement about this topic and this board is here to voice opinions, so ASEO should be able to voice his. I don't know about him assimilating but I am sure you will here his opinion on your comments very soon. Armchair psychology is like opinions and a@!&+$@s, everybody's got one.
I'd like to point out that we here in the website department love Wil Save.... It gives our readers something to argue about on our messageboards, and that's a good, good thing. :-)
That's enough out of you, Gary Teter!
Seriously, has the Dungeon staff considered giving ASEO a monthly article? It'd be fun to see a point/counterpoint page, give Wil and ASEO each half the page, have Wil write his article a bit ahead of time and then get ASEO to write his response.
Maybe it's just me, but ASEO's articles on here are incredibly inspirational. (Playing D&D with 9mm casings and grenade rings?!) If he had a monthly column that was the same quality as his articles on here, you can bet your booty I'd keep buying the mag every month... :-)
Wow I'm amazed at howmany of you really can't stand this one page a month in an over all very well done magazine. i enjoy the page however even it it were the bigest peace or garbage every writen it would still not ruin the magazine for me... this is what it soulds like is happening to most of you this one page in a magzine is making the whole magazine worthless to you all. Yes this page gives very little to enhance your gaming experiance (if any) however it dose point out a few things that that me and my gaming friends do that obviouse happens to other people... things like when describing a person saying that they have a +4 to cha (like in the 118 issue) me and my friends do this to... or "making that jumb has to be a DC 20" something like that in the real life. Iill bet that most of you out there do the same thing...
This monthly artice just shows ways that gaming has influence our lives and given us a different way of looking at things
I can only speak for myself in saying Wil Save does not ruin the whole Dungeon magazine for me. I will continue to buy Dungeon regardless of whether Wil's article is in it or not. Will it stay my favourite magazine if Wil's article is in it? Yes. Do I think Wil's article is the waste of paper it was written on? Yes. I just fail to see any redeeming merit by having it there. Lord Molay sees something positive in it, great, hey different strokes for different folks.I am glad it is working for someone.
Holy Cr@P! I just read the latest ASEO post. Two whole paragraphs to say "I played D&D while in the military".
It's ironic that ASEO doesn't like Wil's tangential D&D columns but he doesn't mind doing it himself. Of course ASEO says Wil should be moved to the web which is were ASEO is doing it so myabe it's not overly ironic.
As for Wil's articles, I find them similar to a car wreck. I can't help but look at them.
|
I admit that I don't like Wil Save. I've been patient before voicing any complaint. When this thread first went up, I was surprised to see the positive comments. After issue 118, I think I'll say my piece.
1) Why Wil Wheaton?
I didn't understand the choice. He might enjoy D&D, and he might have had a role on Star Trek: the Next Generation. So what? What makes him an expert? When it comes down to it, I'd rather see an article by a gaming great or a nobody player. From his articles I don't seen anything special that indicates it should be his feature. I think ASEO's "What Wil Save Should Have Been" was far more appropriate.
2) What is the purpose of the article?
Is it supposed to be a "feel good" piece? Is it to remind us of nostalgia? Relate gaming stories? Besides a subscription to Dragon and Dungeon magazines, I also read Kenzer Co's Knights of the Dinner Table. Beyond being a comic it also features a "Tales from the Table". In that space players send in stories they think are interesting - and often highly amusing. I think that would fulfill the function of Wil Save better, though maybe I don't understand the purpose.
3) What are we supposed to get from the article?
It generally seems that readers complain when the magazine prints something that isn't applicable to their games. If something is entertaining, I can understand why you would want it. I know personally, I don't want fiction. I don't want Under Command. Those "features" have no use for me. Because they have no use, they are not entertaining. I would rather read an article about demon princes. It could be used in my games, and it is interesting - since I don't read a lot about demons outside of D&D.
Yes. It is only one page. It's funny though, I don't hear anybody bemoaning Erik Mona's one page in the front of each magazine. That is appropriate... The Wil Save is useless. I would love to see Wil Save removed, and Under Command - that would be a 5 page feature in every magazine. Just one page - but it can add up quickly.
PS - Have you considered running an unofficial poll for features people would most like to see removed? You don't even have to release the results - but it might help guide your decisions.
As I predicted after the third month Wil's running out of material quickly. In fact in the latest Dungeon there was so much other great stuff I completely forgot about Wil's column until my third or fourth perusing. At least before I was interested enough to read the first few paragraphs.
How about a monthly Up On A Soapbox with Gary, Rob, Dave, Zeb... whoever has something interesting to say. I realize Wil needs to eat, but if he can afford to drop money in Vegas then he must not be too bad off.
If nothing else how about a full page Map of Mystery every other month?
I just wanted to add my two cents and say that I really like Wil Save. It adds a human touch to the magazine. I don't care if it's just a weblog-like column, which has no direct value to my game. I like how he writes.
Bottom line - it's just one page! Please leave it in for as long as Wil wants to write it.
Thanks.
Holy Cr@P! I just read the latest ASEO post. Two whole paragraphs to say "I played D&D while in the military".
It's ironic that ASEO doesn't like Wil's tangential D&D columns but he doesn't mind doing it himself. Of course ASEO says Wil should be moved to the web which is were ASEO is doing it so myabe it's not overly ironic.
As for Wil's articles, I find them similar to a car wreck. I can't help but look at them.
Absolutely correct about the car wreck thing. I have no desire to replace Wil's fluff with my own. Fluff should be left on webpages where people who want it can get it, and people who don't want it don't have to pay for it.
The point of my last triade was that D&D is a universal game that can be easily played anywhere. And, that where ever I've been, I've never had trouble putting a game togather or finding players. I think that there are people out there that sometimes have a hard time finding a game or getting a game started. I was attempting to illustrate that no matter the conditions, you can always game.
What I've seen about Wil save is he often stresses the negatives of D&D. "I hate first level", "I'm not willing to share my dice with my own step son", "I make dorky D&D references where ever I go to reinforce the negative image D&D has in the media" and "I'd rather play Illuminati."
I would think that at the very least Wil would put a good face on D&D.
Now don't get me wrong. I have nothing against Wil, and if you actually read this Wil, I'd love to have you stop in for a game if you are ever in the Oklahoma City area. The issue I have is purely with the placement of the column, and its content to date.
Wil Save is the Jar-jar Binks of DUNGEON Magazine!
ASEO out
It seems like the main complaint (apart from folks not being able to connect to a guy who has a few extra zeroes in his bank account, which I DO understand) is that folks feel cheated that some "unusable" material is in the magazine.
I do wonder if the article would be better received in Dragon magazine?
Would folks feel less cheated if Dungeon was a "stat / rules" only magazine, while Dragon had a little more of the "D&D Community" writing; including "Wil Save"? Is there any form of editorial columns (apart from the opening page) that would NOT make us gamers feel cheated out of our hard earned (and quickly spent) Dungeon dollar?
I have got to agree with you on one thing, Geek in the City(great name by the way)I certainly cannot relate to Wil on any level. I do not despise him because of his money but his just general rambling on about a topic any one of us here on this board can write about at just the same quality or better. Why is HE doing this article? What sets him above any of us that he can write about his experiences in our favourite magazine and not say, ASEO? ASEO is a grunt, served time in the military for his country, is blue collar, has more in tune with us general folk. I certainly respect his opinion more than some geeky kid who had a lucky break in Hollywood and his career is down the tubes who can join his fellow washouts like Corey Feldman in Hollywood burning money in Vegas. How do I respect someone like that?
I do not feel cheated that Dungeon is giving one page to Wil to write his article. Dungeon is becoming an increasingly better quality magazine which I have bought since issue one and always felt was well worth the price. Shift Wil's article over to Dragon sure, just get it the hell out of Dungeon.