How I usually do it is 4d6 drop lowest, reroll 1s or 2d6+6. They do that three times to get a nice set of arrays to go from, then pick their favorite out of the three. If all 3 arrays suck, I calculate the average point buy value of the other players arrays and give them a close average equivalence.
Sorry, but I'm gonna have to pull out of the race. Some real life problems just came up, and my future may be at stake. I've actually pulled out of another campaign as well and cancelled one of my own to compensate. I apologize again, and best wishes for the campaign.
Sharukai Ebonfang is a nomad of this strange land, wandering from place to place. He prefers to keep moving, for fear that something is lurking in the shadows. He possesses mild paranoia when it comes to dark places, and prefers to carry a light source whenever possible. Sharukai is laid back and prefers to solve problems with words rather than blows, but he can fight when necessary. He is loyal, and will defend his allies fiercely.
Sharukai, or as he prefers to be called, Shar, is a laid back individual who likes to think things through before rushing into a situation. He is by no means slow however, and is a deadly force when equipped with his trusty scimitar. Although a tad bit lazy, he is very loyal to those he calls his allies, and will defend them fiercely, often to the death if need be. Such is the case of his supposed "death" that brought him here. As most adventurers know, blue dragons call the desert their home, and are not necessarily keen on the idea of sharing. So when a younger friend of Shar's unintentionally provoked a sleeping blue dragon, he threw himself in the line of fire, giving the child time to flee. His body was turned to ash by the intense electrical surge, and he died. Or so he thought.
Okay, so first off, kudos for leaving your old GM. Second, speaking from a GM's position, I usually make the encounters somewhat challenging, but I make it worth it. Make them work for the good loot, it shouldn't come easy. Start at a low level to let them progressively gain power, and use about a 20 point buy. The reason I say 20 is because it'll be a slightly easier transition than 15, which is already relatively powerful.
The summoner in general is pretty powerful. I prefer the Master Summoner archetype when a GM allows it. Never before has Time Stop been so horrific. Imagine one second, it's you vs. a few PCs, and you clearly have the upper hand. The next second, you're surrounded by Fiendish T-Rexes. In any situation, the Summoner is OP.
--At least 3 are pyromaniacs
--One keeps Mites as housepets
--One has experimented with eating other sentient races
--One has a teensy bit of a drinking problem, which she justifies as the worship of Cayden Cailean
If any of this floats your boat, you can find any of the four by summoning something nasty in the Grand Lodge in Absalom. They'll be the ones screaming for an adult while climbing Major Maldris.
These sound like some of my characters. I had a Druid who was obsessed with making everything a pet. Next there was the Ifrit Sorcerer, who in short, REALLY liked fire. Then I had my first barbarian, who has been known as the "Pretty Barbarian" amongst my friends, namely because his Cha was 15. He believed in the old "Eat their heart, gain their power" philosophy. And then finally, my first rogue, who got so wasted during a zombie assault that the other members of the party used him as a drunken doorstop.
A GM who won't listen shouldn't have the job. A player who won't listen shouldn't have a seat at the table.
Communication is almost always better than digging in your heels.
This sums up my view. As for a solution, I always give myself a week or so to get everybody set up, have them construct characters, backstories, etc., then we spend the rest of the time leading up to the first session meeting up individually to check base and make sure everything will work out. Saves me a heckuva lot of trouble, and everybody's happy by the first session, no surprises.
It's like I always tell my player/GM friends. Part of the rules is what's written down, and the other part is GM discretion. If I'm running an undead apocalypse, I'm clearly not going to want a cleric who can mow down the hordes en masse with channeled energy, but I may allow a paladin with a handicap on his channel energy. The player has to be willing to work with the GM, and vice versa. Only then can there be a positive gaming environment. From what I've been reading, this GM just took your concept, rejected it, and substituted his own. Not cool by any standard. Now obviously, wanting to play the son of a demon lord isn't gonna fly (Tieflings excluded), which is where there needs to be compromise.
As a thought, maybe take a precedent from the monk's Flurry of Blows, and say that rogues count as full BAB when sneak attacking?
That would work quite well. As for the rogue in general, I have now concluded that it's best to avoid combat in general. The point of sneak attack is to end the fight before it starts.
Arachnofiend wrote:
If you're using the default Tiefling your build isn't legal. Tieflings have a -2 to charisma so to buy that you're looking at 29 points.
Yes, well there's a reason for that. I don't use point buy as my stat roll. I prefer 2d6+6 (stupid power monger friend of mine rubbed off on me I guess), and since I don't do any professional campaigns, I don't really concern myself with making duplicates with point buy stats. Sorry for the confusion.
As for the Knife Master/Scout, here's the general outline:
Race: Tiefling
Rogue/5
Str: 13
Dex: 18
Con: 11
Int: 16
Wis: 13
Cha: 13
Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Feint, Greater Feint
Equipment: Studded Leather Armor, Short Sword
From there, just focus on Bluff and Acrobatics (to feint and avoid AoO)
For the record, I do quite enjoy this conversation. Not often I get to talk with people who actually understand this.
Shoot, I can't find him. I can modify an existing one quickly though.
Scavion said wrote:
Alchemists- Match for Skills(Due to being Int Focused), can gain full Sneak Attack, brings spells to the party.
Yes, you do get full sneak attack with the Vivisectionist archetype, but the spells are purely for extracts and aren't usable by anyone besides the alchemist. There are discoveries to amend this of course. The other two are spot on. You might like one of my players. He absolutely loves Bards.
I would like to see that scout/nkife master, because I have seen lots of them in the past, and althought they can be Ok it is not like they are in the top 10.
I'll have to dig it up, but I should still have it lying around. It's best used in a group where you have others who can draw fire, and it's really useful when there's two of them and one has Greater Feint and the other has Spring Attack. Should I just PM you the character info once I manage to find it?
Prestige sounds nice if that wouldn't delegate it's power to being less than desirable.
All it needs is a few modifications here and there. Like EvilPaladin said, maybe allow it to use certain spells when raging, or add a metamagic feat to all spells cast during a rage?
Alexandros Satorum said wrote:
If you truly want to change someons mind you will need something besides "play them right".
Yes, I see your point. What I'm trying to say is not that these people don't know what they're doing, it's more of looking at what the rogue has to offer and then looking at how to augment it. Like I said, the Scout and Knife Master archetypes are the perfect compliment to the sneak attack, and it's only aided by Improved Feint. From what I've seen, they compare it to other classes, and that's when the problem arises. You have to isolate the rogue on its own, look at its potential exclusively, and that's when it begins to shine. I revoke my prior statement about the rogue being the best class, as each class is the best in its own right. The key is to isolate it and not force it into unfair comparisons. A fighter or a barbarian is clearly going to outdo a rogue in head-on combat, and the ninja clearly outclasses the rogue for stealth. But when you realize that this class has strategic potential, that's when it becomes useful.
I'm gonna put myself out there and say that rogues are one of the best classes, assuming you know how to play one. Sniping is a difficult and penalty-ridden path, and it takes quite some time to make it effective. Not to say that it can't be done, just use a Drow Cave Sniper and take the three Drow Noble feats. Infinite Deeper Darkness on your arrows allows you to even the score quite quickly. However, rogues do best when they can finish the job on the first attack. That's where archetypes become your best friend. I highly suggest playing a Knife Master/Scout some time, they do insane amounts of sneak attack damage. Not to mention that the majority of the rogue's traditional melee weapons fall under the Knife Master's damage dice bonus (A d6 to a d8 makes a big difference). If played correctly, the rogue can be the deadliest combatant on the battlefield. The problem is that people are looking too much at their hit die. Yes, a d8 isn't fantastic, but a 12-14 Con and the Toughness feat balance it out nicely. And finally, the feat that I have dubbed "a rogue's best friend", Improved Feint. They lose their Dex bonus as a move action, leaving you a standard action to lay on some sneak attack damage. The rogue is a fantastic class, the trick is playing them right.
Honestly, I feel that it is entirely up to the campaign at hand. In a long-winded story with way too much to give away, it's best to leave GMPCs out of it. However, in a campaign where a character niche is unfulfilled, leaving a notable flaw in the team, a GMPC is a great way to enjoy the fruits of your labors as a GM without having to pull punches. Keep in mind as well that GMPCs are very mortal. I was playing a Halfling Summoner, who took a greatsword to the everything and died, at the worst possible time during the fight. Had to ask if they wanted a cop out, since I was the only one who could damage the monsters. As for the issue of character types in a campaign and what campaign to run, I am fortunate to have a very accepting group who's game for just about any idea I can concoct. Some of you aren't so lucky, so the best option would be, as a few people have said, find out what campaign they like best. Obviously you have to cater to their play styles every now and again (a real roleplayer in a dungeon crawl would be bored out of their wits), but it never hurts to throw their weaknesses in their face once in a while. Throw the rogue into open combat, or put the fighter into a social confrontation where combat will get them killed. Teaches them a bit of humility, and makes them appreciate the other party members that much more. Just don't forget to leave them a way out. I've done that once or twice. And that's how TPKs are born.
This was a while back, put in spoiler form for appropriateness sake.
:
I was playing a Male Tiefling Rogue who had a frenemy-style relationship with the Male Catfolk Ranger. We enter a town, and the ranger heads to the temple and grabs a vial of holy water. He then ties it to his boot and kicks me in the jimmies. After we calculate the ensuing nonlethal damage and the nauseation wears off on my character, I ask if the holy water does anything worse to me, since I'm part-Infernal on my dad's side IC. The GM informs me that my jimmies harmlessly ignite in a burst of fire, to which my rogue tells the ranger in-game: "Great, now you gave me Divine Gonorrhea." We resumed playing about 2 min. later.
I enjoy online campaigns. I run a few myself (though not on here) and could some help if needed. Other than that, sounds pretty fun, would love to join
